To be or not to be?
October 23, 2005 2:50 PM Subscribe
What is the ideal word in the English language that means torn between two equally wonderful/terrible things? A friend of mine suggested yesterday this word was ambivalence, but I am not satisfied with that.
Maybe I just need a better dictionary/thesaurus. But Merriam-Webster online gives this definition for ambivalence: 1 : simultaneous and contradictory attitudes or feelings (as attraction and repulsion) toward an object, person, or action
2 a : continual fluctuation (as between one thing and its opposite) b : uncertainty as to which approach to follow
I am unhappy with this word because so many people use ambivalence to mean definition 2b: uncertainty. In fact, its common usage seems to indicate uncertainty with a lack of care for which outcome happens. Ex: 'Do you want to go to the bar or the movies?' 'Meh. I'm abivalent.' I didn't know about 1 or 2a and I suspect, neither does the majority of the literate public. Is there a better word to use when someone's pulling a Hamlet?
Maybe I just need a better dictionary/thesaurus. But Merriam-Webster online gives this definition for ambivalence: 1 : simultaneous and contradictory attitudes or feelings (as attraction and repulsion) toward an object, person, or action
2 a : continual fluctuation (as between one thing and its opposite) b : uncertainty as to which approach to follow
I am unhappy with this word because so many people use ambivalence to mean definition 2b: uncertainty. In fact, its common usage seems to indicate uncertainty with a lack of care for which outcome happens. Ex: 'Do you want to go to the bar or the movies?' 'Meh. I'm abivalent.' I didn't know about 1 or 2a and I suspect, neither does the majority of the literate public. Is there a better word to use when someone's pulling a Hamlet?
"catch 22" ?
posted by ajbattrick at 2:56 PM on October 23, 2005
posted by ajbattrick at 2:56 PM on October 23, 2005
It's definitely not catch 22. Ambivalent seems like the appropriate word to me. Ambivalent does not mean indifferent.
adj 1: characterized by a mixture of opposite feelings or attitudes; "she felt ambivalent about his proposal"; "an ambivalent position on rent control" 2: uncertain or unable to decide about what course to follow; "was ambivalent about having children"
posted by ludwig_van at 3:04 PM on October 23, 2005
adj 1: characterized by a mixture of opposite feelings or attitudes; "she felt ambivalent about his proposal"; "an ambivalent position on rent control" 2: uncertain or unable to decide about what course to follow; "was ambivalent about having children"
posted by ludwig_van at 3:04 PM on October 23, 2005
I would likely refer to it as a borderline decision or a coin-flip situation, indicating that I have precisely two options with no logical way to determine which is superior.
I would probably say borderline decision if I felt that more information could sway me, and coin-flip if I was confident that reasonable amounts of analysis would have no effect.
posted by I Love Tacos at 3:05 PM on October 23, 2005
I would probably say borderline decision if I felt that more information could sway me, and coin-flip if I was confident that reasonable amounts of analysis would have no effect.
posted by I Love Tacos at 3:05 PM on October 23, 2005
How about "vacillant?"
adj : uncertain in purpose or action
posted by fatbobsmith at 3:10 PM on October 23, 2005
adj : uncertain in purpose or action
posted by fatbobsmith at 3:10 PM on October 23, 2005
facing a dilemma?
posted by Spanner Nic at 3:10 PM on October 23, 2005
posted by Spanner Nic at 3:10 PM on October 23, 2005
While ambivalence does indicate mixed feelings, I don't believe it indicates that the negative and positive factors zero each other out. It merely indicates that there are conflicting factors.
posted by I Love Tacos at 3:13 PM on October 23, 2005
posted by I Love Tacos at 3:13 PM on October 23, 2005
"Option paralysis" -- Generation X, Douglas Coupland -- has always appealed to me.
posted by docgonzo at 3:13 PM on October 23, 2005
posted by docgonzo at 3:13 PM on October 23, 2005
Maybe "antinomy." It's mostly used as a term in logic but I have heard it used loosely to mean something like "torn between two equally compelling necessities."
posted by bac at 3:13 PM on October 23, 2005
posted by bac at 3:13 PM on October 23, 2005
Response by poster: Interesting comments so far. Ludwig, you're probably right, but I hear abivalence abused as a word so often [and until today, I didn't even know it was being abused (!)]
I like vacillant, bob. Problem with the word dilemma is you can't use it as an adjective, and of course it can't describe two positives.
Are there any good words in other languages that do a better job of satisfying this question?
posted by Happydaz at 3:15 PM on October 23, 2005
I like vacillant, bob. Problem with the word dilemma is you can't use it as an adjective, and of course it can't describe two positives.
Are there any good words in other languages that do a better job of satisfying this question?
posted by Happydaz at 3:15 PM on October 23, 2005
Upon post... caitlinb nailed it for negative situations.
posted by I Love Tacos at 3:16 PM on October 23, 2005
posted by I Love Tacos at 3:16 PM on October 23, 2005
I'd stick with 'ambivalent'. While some people use it when they mean that they are indifferent, properly used 'ambivalent' does exactly what you want it to. Don't let other people's refusal/inability to use English precisely keep you from doing so.
posted by oddman at 3:16 PM on October 23, 2005
posted by oddman at 3:16 PM on October 23, 2005
deadlock, impasse, quandary?
(According to thesaurus.com)
posted by Boobus Tuber at 3:19 PM on October 23, 2005
(According to thesaurus.com)
posted by Boobus Tuber at 3:19 PM on October 23, 2005
I'm not a fan of vacillant as it implies indeciveness.
(I love this question, and all the answers. I realized long after college, that I have a deep love of language.)
posted by I Love Tacos at 3:20 PM on October 23, 2005
(I love this question, and all the answers. I realized long after college, that I have a deep love of language.)
posted by I Love Tacos at 3:20 PM on October 23, 2005
The phrase "of two minds" comes to at least one of my minds.
posted by trip and a half at 3:21 PM on October 23, 2005
posted by trip and a half at 3:21 PM on October 23, 2005
I like "torn" as it implies a difficult decision between two compelling options.
posted by fshgrl at 3:21 PM on October 23, 2005
posted by fshgrl at 3:21 PM on October 23, 2005
A negative clarity situation.
posted by blue_beetle at 3:27 PM on October 23, 2005
posted by blue_beetle at 3:27 PM on October 23, 2005
Best answer: I think the usual idiom is of two minds.
"With the risks so obvious and yet the rewards so great, he was of two minds about his course of action."
There's a number of negative idioms (from Roget's): between the devil and the deep blue sea, in a tight spot, between a rock and a hard place, between Scylla and Charybdis, between the hammer and the anvil, between two fires, Catch-22, cornered, Hobson's choice, in a dilemma, in a pickle, in a predicament, in the middle, no choice, sitting on a powder keg
I don't know that any of these fit a positive situation, although I'm not sure what you mean exactly. Perhaps quandary is one of the better neutral terms? At a crossroads (if you must choose one or the other)?
posted by dhartung at 3:29 PM on October 23, 2005
"With the risks so obvious and yet the rewards so great, he was of two minds about his course of action."
There's a number of negative idioms (from Roget's): between the devil and the deep blue sea, in a tight spot, between a rock and a hard place, between Scylla and Charybdis, between the hammer and the anvil, between two fires, Catch-22, cornered, Hobson's choice, in a dilemma, in a pickle, in a predicament, in the middle, no choice, sitting on a powder keg
I don't know that any of these fit a positive situation, although I'm not sure what you mean exactly. Perhaps quandary is one of the better neutral terms? At a crossroads (if you must choose one or the other)?
posted by dhartung at 3:29 PM on October 23, 2005
I would say dilemma qualifies for both negative and positive quandries.
posted by dame at 3:32 PM on October 23, 2005
posted by dame at 3:32 PM on October 23, 2005
I always thought that abivalence doesn't mean not being able to decide between two things, but having directly conflicting emotions about one thing. Being ambivalent about a person means that you feel both love and hatred for him/her; one cannot be ambivalent about what to do this evening. I would never follow the utterance "meh" with "ambivalent:" the word connotes an uncomfortable conflict of emotions. I would use the word vacillation or undecided. Of course, perhaps the meaning of the word has changed with popular usage.
posted by Uncle Glendinning at 3:33 PM on October 23, 2005
posted by Uncle Glendinning at 3:33 PM on October 23, 2005
If you can put up with a phrase, rather than a word, Buridan's Ass might be what you need.
posted by grahamwell at 3:38 PM on October 23, 2005
posted by grahamwell at 3:38 PM on October 23, 2005
zero-sum games
posted by grumblebee at 3:39 PM on October 23, 2005
posted by grumblebee at 3:39 PM on October 23, 2005
damned if you do, damned if you don't
posted by grumblebee at 3:40 PM on October 23, 2005
posted by grumblebee at 3:40 PM on October 23, 2005
There's always "Sorry/Grateful" if you're a Sondheim fan.
posted by Asparagirl at 3:42 PM on October 23, 2005
posted by Asparagirl at 3:42 PM on October 23, 2005
"your money or your life!"
posted by grumblebee at 3:44 PM on October 23, 2005
posted by grumblebee at 3:44 PM on October 23, 2005
Best answer: I think torn/split is the right word here. If you want to be slightly more esoteric, you could go with a synonym... riven is a fun one for that.
posted by devilsbrigade at 3:47 PM on October 23, 2005
posted by devilsbrigade at 3:47 PM on October 23, 2005
Like a kid in a candy shop.
posted by grumblebee at 3:49 PM on October 23, 2005
posted by grumblebee at 3:49 PM on October 23, 2005
My vote goes to "dilemma", although it doesn't catch the nuance 100%.
Incidentally, the Germans have the expression "Qual der Wahl", which might be loosely translated as "the torture of having to choose".
(Ah, the Germans have an expression for everything, don't they?)
posted by sour cream at 3:53 PM on October 23, 2005
Incidentally, the Germans have the expression "Qual der Wahl", which might be loosely translated as "the torture of having to choose".
(Ah, the Germans have an expression for everything, don't they?)
posted by sour cream at 3:53 PM on October 23, 2005
In terms of sayings, "caught between the devil and the deep blue sea" would refer to having to choose between two bad things.
posted by wackybrit at 3:56 PM on October 23, 2005
posted by wackybrit at 3:56 PM on October 23, 2005
This doesn't give you a single word, but approach-approach conflict is what I learned to call this situation way back in college. There's also avoidance-avoidance conflict.
posted by loosemouth at 4:09 PM on October 23, 2005
posted by loosemouth at 4:09 PM on October 23, 2005
Not ambivalence. The state of being ambivalent is not restricted to "equally terrible/wonderful things". It just means not being strongly drawn towards any particular choice, whether wonderful, terrible or anything else.
I'd say "on the horns of a dilemma" or something like that.
posted by Decani at 4:11 PM on October 23, 2005
I'd say "on the horns of a dilemma" or something like that.
posted by Decani at 4:11 PM on October 23, 2005
I don't know what the "best" word for it is, but the most commonly used one is the one used in your question: "torn".
posted by Clay201 at 4:23 PM on October 23, 2005
posted by Clay201 at 4:23 PM on October 23, 2005
clashing, contradictory... not quite, but that's what the ol' thesaurus has to say.
Do you have a sentence in which this word would go?
posted by Citizen Premier at 4:25 PM on October 23, 2005
Do you have a sentence in which this word would go?
posted by Citizen Premier at 4:25 PM on October 23, 2005
Simply "torn" might be nice too.
posted by Citizen Premier at 4:25 PM on October 23, 2005
posted by Citizen Premier at 4:25 PM on October 23, 2005
Possibly Hobson's Choice for two or more terrible outcomes.
posted by FieldingGoodney at 4:35 PM on October 23, 2005
posted by FieldingGoodney at 4:35 PM on October 23, 2005
Not ambivalence. The state of being ambivalent is not restricted to "equally terrible/wonderful things". It just means not being strongly drawn towards any particular choice, whether wonderful, terrible or anything else.
No it doesn't. It means: (1) "characterized by a mixture of opposite feelings or attitudes" or (2) a. "continual fluctuation (as between one thing and its opposite)" or b. "uncertainty as to which approach to follow."
Aside from that, I'd vote for "(facing a) dilemma/quandary."
posted by ludwig_van at 4:55 PM on October 23, 2005
No it doesn't. It means: (1) "characterized by a mixture of opposite feelings or attitudes" or (2) a. "continual fluctuation (as between one thing and its opposite)" or b. "uncertainty as to which approach to follow."
Aside from that, I'd vote for "(facing a) dilemma/quandary."
posted by ludwig_van at 4:55 PM on October 23, 2005
I agree the ambivalent isn't the right word here - to me it means not particularly caring about the situation.
I like Gyan's equipoise. The first definition seems like a good litmus test.
posted by PurplePorpoise at 4:57 PM on October 23, 2005
I like Gyan's equipoise. The first definition seems like a good litmus test.
posted by PurplePorpoise at 4:57 PM on October 23, 2005
sorry, third and fourth definition. stupid drugs make brain slow
posted by PurplePorpoise at 4:58 PM on October 23, 2005
posted by PurplePorpoise at 4:58 PM on October 23, 2005
divided ?
posted by elpapacito at 5:16 PM on October 23, 2005
posted by elpapacito at 5:16 PM on October 23, 2005
Best answer: What is the ideal word in the English language that means torn between two equally wonderful/terrible things?
'Torn' has the precise connotations you describe, which is exactly why you used it!
posted by dgaicun at 5:31 PM on October 23, 2005
'Torn' has the precise connotations you describe, which is exactly why you used it!
posted by dgaicun at 5:31 PM on October 23, 2005
I vote for conflicted.
posted by crabintheocean at 5:43 PM on October 23, 2005
posted by crabintheocean at 5:43 PM on October 23, 2005
How about divergent?
posted by attercoppe at 7:07 PM on October 23, 2005
posted by attercoppe at 7:07 PM on October 23, 2005
Response by poster: Well, I marked a few answers I really liked. Although as it's a word usage question, I feel rather uncomfortable selecting "Best" answers as I'm not a linguist. Thanks for all the great comments, I love AskMe.
Although this probably isn't technically correct, I love the idea of being riven, as an adjective. Seeing as it's a verb, however, this seems somewhat appropriate: Chosing between school and a love life rived my senses. Is that even close to being a real sentence?
The german phrase Qual der Wahl is excellent. If only I knew how to pronounce it.
I think ambivalence is being hijacked as a "meh" word, despite what the dictionary says. I'll use torn when I don't have enough time to come up with the right tense of rive.
posted by Happydaz at 7:55 PM on October 23, 2005
Although this probably isn't technically correct, I love the idea of being riven, as an adjective. Seeing as it's a verb, however, this seems somewhat appropriate: Chosing between school and a love life rived my senses. Is that even close to being a real sentence?
The german phrase Qual der Wahl is excellent. If only I knew how to pronounce it.
I think ambivalence is being hijacked as a "meh" word, despite what the dictionary says. I'll use torn when I don't have enough time to come up with the right tense of rive.
posted by Happydaz at 7:55 PM on October 23, 2005
Of course, I agree with Gyan.
1. Equality in distribution, as of weight, relationship, or emotional forces; equilibrium.
2. A counterpoise; a counterbalance.
posted by equipoise at 8:20 PM on October 23, 2005
1. Equality in distribution, as of weight, relationship, or emotional forces; equilibrium.
2. A counterpoise; a counterbalance.
posted by equipoise at 8:20 PM on October 23, 2005
No it doesn't. It means: (1) "characterized by a mixture of opposite feelings or attitudes" or (2) a. "continual fluctuation (as between one thing and its opposite)" or b. "uncertainty as to which approach to follow."
Pretty much what I said. But you missed the point, which was that ambivalence can apply to any situation where you are undecided. The questioner was looking for a word to describe being undecided between choices which are, quote, "equally wonderful/terrible". I was pointing out that people seemed to be missing that crucial part of the question. Your choices do not have to be wonderful or terrible to be ambivalent about them. In fact, ambivalence is more commonly used in situations where you don't care too much either way about your choices. It's what you typically say when you don't give too much of a damn about the situation. Therefore it is not a good choice for describing uncertain feelings about terrible or wonderful things.
posted by Decani at 7:07 PM on October 24, 2005
Pretty much what I said. But you missed the point, which was that ambivalence can apply to any situation where you are undecided. The questioner was looking for a word to describe being undecided between choices which are, quote, "equally wonderful/terrible". I was pointing out that people seemed to be missing that crucial part of the question. Your choices do not have to be wonderful or terrible to be ambivalent about them. In fact, ambivalence is more commonly used in situations where you don't care too much either way about your choices. It's what you typically say when you don't give too much of a damn about the situation. Therefore it is not a good choice for describing uncertain feelings about terrible or wonderful things.
posted by Decani at 7:07 PM on October 24, 2005
Response by poster: Decani: Exactly. Which is why I love riven and its less eloquent but more practical cousin, torn. Chosing between the two words has become quite a Qual der Wahl these last two days.
posted by Happydaz at 12:04 AM on October 25, 2005
posted by Happydaz at 12:04 AM on October 25, 2005
Being torn between two good things is at the same time being torn between two bad things -- having to give up one of them. I frequently use dilemma and quandry for this position. "Between a (rock) and a (hard place)" type phrases bring to mind being squashed by circumstances from both sides, rather than being given a choice.
posted by vanoakenfold at 8:59 AM on October 25, 2005
posted by vanoakenfold at 8:59 AM on October 25, 2005
Riven... hat's a good call, Happydaz. I never managed to finish the damned game, either.
posted by Decani at 8:41 PM on October 27, 2005
posted by Decani at 8:41 PM on October 27, 2005
Spoilt for choice?
posted by booksprite at 3:23 AM on November 6, 2005
posted by booksprite at 3:23 AM on November 6, 2005
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by kcm at 2:53 PM on October 23, 2005