First-time PC laptop... halp!
March 2, 2014 2:08 AM Subscribe
So: junior has saved up to buy his own computer. Since we're, by habit, a Mac family since forever, but he's opting for a PC, I'm finding the thicket of options a little overwhelming. The main issue is to reconcile requirements for gaming, durability (and potential futureablility) and price. (Also: we're in Europe, so some models/options don't seem as readily available as in the US.) The other main piece of information I'm missing is the reliability - in terms of build quality and service - of PC brands. Is there a good place to find some guidance - or is it really a lot easier than it seems?
Here's what we've identfied as necessities:
- optical drive, WiFi, Bluetooth, USB
- runs Minecraft, League of Legends, FIFA14 and Steam properly
- iTunes (iPod Touch sync), Skype, Teamspeak, web (including Flash)
- runs a video editor like iMovie (is there a good free/cheap one?)
- free Office suite (between Libre and OpenOffice that seems an easy one)
- portable, so laptop (or ultrabook? netbook)? chromebook???)
For some reason, his info is that Windows 8 is an issue - what are his options?
As regards brands...
- is there a reason to think of Sony Vaio more highly than other brands (also considering Sony's just sold the brand off)?
- based on recent reviews, some Lenovo models look like they could be a reasonable choice - true or debatable?
- Asus? Acer?
Price: between €500 and €650, all-in.
Thanks for any/all pointers!
Here's what we've identfied as necessities:
- optical drive, WiFi, Bluetooth, USB
- runs Minecraft, League of Legends, FIFA14 and Steam properly
- iTunes (iPod Touch sync), Skype, Teamspeak, web (including Flash)
- runs a video editor like iMovie (is there a good free/cheap one?)
- free Office suite (between Libre and OpenOffice that seems an easy one)
- portable, so laptop (or ultrabook? netbook)? chromebook???)
For some reason, his info is that Windows 8 is an issue - what are his options?
As regards brands...
- is there a reason to think of Sony Vaio more highly than other brands (also considering Sony's just sold the brand off)?
- based on recent reviews, some Lenovo models look like they could be a reasonable choice - true or debatable?
- Asus? Acer?
Price: between €500 and €650, all-in.
Thanks for any/all pointers!
Oh, and Ultrabooks, being super-slim, have tiny SSD drives in them, which means that storing large swaths of video files for editing is a no-go. He'll need an external hard drive if he wants to do editing beyond simple YouTube videos.
posted by Punkey at 2:48 AM on March 2, 2014
posted by Punkey at 2:48 AM on March 2, 2014
Response by poster: Q1. How does he define "runs properly" when it comes to games? Does it have to be at full resolution with all the bells and whistles on? Or does it just have to look acceptable and play well?
He knows it's unreasonable to hope for full resolution+bells&whistles, so it's more a case of getting a best performance (cpu+graphics card combination, I guess) within the price range.
At this price range, it's going to be a choice between graphical prowess and featherlight portability - which is more important to him?
He'd definitely sacrifice portability for graphical prowess.
storing large swaths of video files for editing is a no-go.
The video editing isn't a major priority, would just be a nice thing to ba able to do at a pretty basic level.
posted by progosk at 2:53 AM on March 2, 2014
He knows it's unreasonable to hope for full resolution+bells&whistles, so it's more a case of getting a best performance (cpu+graphics card combination, I guess) within the price range.
At this price range, it's going to be a choice between graphical prowess and featherlight portability - which is more important to him?
He'd definitely sacrifice portability for graphical prowess.
storing large swaths of video files for editing is a no-go.
The video editing isn't a major priority, would just be a nice thing to ba able to do at a pretty basic level.
posted by progosk at 2:53 AM on March 2, 2014
Okay, it sounds more like you're looking for something more like the Lenovo Ideapad Y-series? Very well reviewed budget gaming laptop.
posted by Punkey at 3:05 AM on March 2, 2014
posted by Punkey at 3:05 AM on March 2, 2014
And as for Windows 8...well, it's not ideal? But it's not as bad as it used to be. It's been out for a bit, and most of the compatibility problems have been ironed out by now.
posted by Punkey at 3:07 AM on March 2, 2014
posted by Punkey at 3:07 AM on March 2, 2014
It comes down to what you want to spend. A high end gaming laptop, Alienware / Dell XPS / Clevo etc cost about 1000 euro. If he doesn't want windows 8 then that's his choice - he can take it off the laptop and install whatever (non Apple) OS he wants. High end gaming laptops aren't massively light or small though.
posted by mattoxic at 3:09 AM on March 2, 2014
posted by mattoxic at 3:09 AM on March 2, 2014
Perhaps junior might consider getting a MacBook Pro and run Windows on it (either dual boot, or scrub the OS/X). Intel processor, NVIDIA GeForce GT 750M with 2GB of GDDR5.
posted by at at 3:22 AM on March 2, 2014
posted by at at 3:22 AM on March 2, 2014
The Lenovo has the same processor and video card (with half the RAM, admittedly - but something that can easily be upgraded by the user), twice the HDD space, and the same screen size (with much lower resolution) as the highest-end 15 inch MBP for $800 US, and a pretty good screen plus boot drive SSD for $900 on the Lenovo US website.
posted by Punkey at 3:29 AM on March 2, 2014
posted by Punkey at 3:29 AM on March 2, 2014
- portable, so laptop (or ultrabook? netbook)? chromebook???)
Not a chromebook. It is essentially a thin client and everything it does is web based. He would definitely not be happy with it. Same goes for netbooks, a dying breed. His needs indicate a full function PC, but it could just as easily be a Linux box as Windows or Mac.
posted by jim in austin at 4:52 AM on March 2, 2014
Not a chromebook. It is essentially a thin client and everything it does is web based. He would definitely not be happy with it. Same goes for netbooks, a dying breed. His needs indicate a full function PC, but it could just as easily be a Linux box as Windows or Mac.
posted by jim in austin at 4:52 AM on March 2, 2014
Everything that Punkey said.
I just completely rebuilt my desktop guts a few weeks ago, and whenever I start researching for what the current best buys are for the market, I hit up:
With the new PC guts I reluctantly bought Windows 8.1, since XP support is going the way of the dodo, and I figured I might as well get the latest version. I will cop to being pleasantly surprised. The app start screen is a bit of an annoyance, but easily tweaked to one's preferences or even just skipped, booting straight to the more familiar desktop. No complaints so far with Mr. romakimmy's Starcraft or my install of Portal/2 via Steam.
I bought my stuff via Newegg during my recent visit Stateside, but have heard tell of a PC shop on the lungotevere near Marconi where the staff is pretty knowledgable and the prices are decent (ie better than the big box stores)
posted by romakimmy at 5:54 AM on March 2, 2014
I just completely rebuilt my desktop guts a few weeks ago, and whenever I start researching for what the current best buys are for the market, I hit up:
- Tom's Hardware (UK version)
- Anandtech (2013 gaming laptop guide)
- TechReport (Holiday system guide)
- ArsTechnica
- Engadget
- newegg.com (gaming laptops section)
With the new PC guts I reluctantly bought Windows 8.1, since XP support is going the way of the dodo, and I figured I might as well get the latest version. I will cop to being pleasantly surprised. The app start screen is a bit of an annoyance, but easily tweaked to one's preferences or even just skipped, booting straight to the more familiar desktop. No complaints so far with Mr. romakimmy's Starcraft or my install of Portal/2 via Steam.
I bought my stuff via Newegg during my recent visit Stateside, but have heard tell of a PC shop on the lungotevere near Marconi where the staff is pretty knowledgable and the prices are decent (ie better than the big box stores)
posted by romakimmy at 5:54 AM on March 2, 2014
You do not want a netbook or a Chromebook. You want a gaming laptop. Unfortunately with a budget of €650, you can't really afford a gaming laptop, and people telling you what things cost from US retailers is just frustrating and irrelevant.
However, I think it's worth pointing out that if you look at Dells, the entry-price Alienware from the "Gaming Laptops" selection is €999; the entry level Inspiron from the "Multimedia" range is €699. If you use the Compare feature on the Dell site, you'll see that both have the same Intel Core processor, 6GB memory, 500GB hard drives, the same NVIDIA GeForce graphics card, and the Inspiron has a bigger screen. It also weighs slightly less. OK, sure, your shit doesn't light up and it isn't made of cool anodized aluminum, but it is vastly more affordable.
I have what I think is the last Dell desktop in the world; it's about eight years old now. I also have a Dell laptop, which I drop regularly, and on which I game. I get that they are in no way cool and don't have a lot of street cred among your under-18s, but they deliver value and performance and they come with a warranty you can actually exercise if you need it. I never have.
posted by DarlingBri at 5:59 AM on March 2, 2014 [3 favorites]
However, I think it's worth pointing out that if you look at Dells, the entry-price Alienware from the "Gaming Laptops" selection is €999; the entry level Inspiron from the "Multimedia" range is €699. If you use the Compare feature on the Dell site, you'll see that both have the same Intel Core processor, 6GB memory, 500GB hard drives, the same NVIDIA GeForce graphics card, and the Inspiron has a bigger screen. It also weighs slightly less. OK, sure, your shit doesn't light up and it isn't made of cool anodized aluminum, but it is vastly more affordable.
I have what I think is the last Dell desktop in the world; it's about eight years old now. I also have a Dell laptop, which I drop regularly, and on which I game. I get that they are in no way cool and don't have a lot of street cred among your under-18s, but they deliver value and performance and they come with a warranty you can actually exercise if you need it. I never have.
posted by DarlingBri at 5:59 AM on March 2, 2014 [3 favorites]
I would...be careful about buying anything entry level from Dell - or any other PC manufacturer. Have you ever wondered what makes those upper-end laptops more expensive? It's not just the unicorn tears they mix into the solder. They use more expensive - and more durable - components in the construction of the motherboard and various other parts that are designed by the manufacturer. The reason why a MBP is largely bulletproof and a, well, a base Dell laptop rather isn't is due in no small part to improved capacitors and resistors on the motherboard.
posted by Punkey at 9:06 AM on March 2, 2014
posted by Punkey at 9:06 AM on March 2, 2014
Response by poster: So... re: the Lenovo Y thing: these are actually available here, just slightly over the top end of his budget, but only via ebay, imported from the US - is that a wise way to go at all? (For slightly more, local amazon offers them imported from Germany, with a German keyboard - would that then be switchable?)
Alternatively, I'm intrigued by the MSI machines, will be looking into those too.
Also: any main points against at's idea - which hadn't occurred to me - of going with a (family-refurbished) MBP with Windows installed on that?
Thanks romakimmy for the local advice - I'll definitely check that place out.
posted by progosk at 9:26 AM on March 2, 2014
Alternatively, I'm intrigued by the MSI machines, will be looking into those too.
Also: any main points against at's idea - which hadn't occurred to me - of going with a (family-refurbished) MBP with Windows installed on that?
Thanks romakimmy for the local advice - I'll definitely check that place out.
posted by progosk at 9:26 AM on March 2, 2014
Eeeh, it's doable, but if it's over your budget, then I'd look elsewhere. A hand-me-down MBP with Windows wouldn't be too bad of an idea, if the specs are comparable. The main thing a gaming laptop needs is RAM and a good video card. Compare the specs with other gaming-oriented laptops, and see if they're relatively close.
posted by Punkey at 9:42 AM on March 2, 2014
posted by Punkey at 9:42 AM on March 2, 2014
I find the notebook review forums to be very helpful for this. Specifically once I have a laptop in mind I head to the manufacturer subforum and look for the Owner's Lounge or Review Threads for the model I'm interested in. There is an ungodly amount of internet-reviewer details in many of these.
As for low-priced gaming laptops I've heard/seen good things about the MSI GX series, they're configurable so it might be possible to find something good in that price range.
posted by xqwzts at 10:21 AM on March 2, 2014
As for low-priced gaming laptops I've heard/seen good things about the MSI GX series, they're configurable so it might be possible to find something good in that price range.
posted by xqwzts at 10:21 AM on March 2, 2014
local amazon offers them imported from Germany, with a German keyboard - would that then be switchable
Keyboards are actually very easy to switch because I had a work one replaced once and the guy was done in less than 5 minutes. I have no idea how much that would cost though but why would you even need to switch it? If that is the only drawback you can switch the keyboard settings to make it any keyboard set up you want. Your son may initially hit the wrong key a few times but you soon learn what's what and it's really a non issue. Typing this on a Swiss keyboard I've set to be a UK English set-up....Or he could just use the German set up...he'll get used to it in no time...So if that option means more computer for your money the keyboard shouldn't be a dealbreaker.
posted by koahiatamadl at 11:23 AM on March 2, 2014
Keyboards are actually very easy to switch because I had a work one replaced once and the guy was done in less than 5 minutes. I have no idea how much that would cost though but why would you even need to switch it? If that is the only drawback you can switch the keyboard settings to make it any keyboard set up you want. Your son may initially hit the wrong key a few times but you soon learn what's what and it's really a non issue. Typing this on a Swiss keyboard I've set to be a UK English set-up....Or he could just use the German set up...he'll get used to it in no time...So if that option means more computer for your money the keyboard shouldn't be a dealbreaker.
posted by koahiatamadl at 11:23 AM on March 2, 2014
Computer shopping is really a cost-benefit analysis where you try to get the fastest CPU (processor), the most RAM (memory) and the sleekest design for the lowest price. Focus on the processor and the RAM and if you can get a laptop with a SSD (solid state drive) instead of just a HDD (hard disk drive), that's great, but SSD is a more expensive technology and HDD will give your son more room for movies and games at a lower cost.
I think it's worth heading over to Best Buy and physically looking at the laptop and trying it out after you've narrowed down the specs.
I'd also buy Windows 7 and install that instead of Windows 8. Windows 7 is easier to use for anyone who has ever used a PC, and it's just a better operating system. He'll be able to do everything he wants with ease that way. That's an extra $120 unless you can find a laptop with Windows 7 installed on it already. But will probably be worth. (Microsoft really messed up with Windows 8. Such a shame since Windows 7 is so good. Sort of the same story when Windows XP was awesome and they followed up with Windows Vista and everyone hated it.)
posted by AppleTurnover at 11:54 AM on March 2, 2014
I think it's worth heading over to Best Buy and physically looking at the laptop and trying it out after you've narrowed down the specs.
I'd also buy Windows 7 and install that instead of Windows 8. Windows 7 is easier to use for anyone who has ever used a PC, and it's just a better operating system. He'll be able to do everything he wants with ease that way. That's an extra $120 unless you can find a laptop with Windows 7 installed on it already. But will probably be worth. (Microsoft really messed up with Windows 8. Such a shame since Windows 7 is so good. Sort of the same story when Windows XP was awesome and they followed up with Windows Vista and everyone hated it.)
posted by AppleTurnover at 11:54 AM on March 2, 2014
If it's primarily for gaming, you might want to wait for the Steambox to come out. The Steamboxen will play anything available on steam, and they're all under $1000 (I think). They are intended to do for PC's what consoles do: make it really easy to play games.
posted by Native in Exile at 2:56 PM on March 2, 2014
posted by Native in Exile at 2:56 PM on March 2, 2014
I would...be careful about buying anything entry level from Dell
The Alienware laptops are excellent at any level, even the 14" entry level. The Inspiron I linked to is not the entry level Inspiron; it is merely the first in the Inspiron series rated for multimedia.
I think it's worth heading over to Best Buy
The OP lives in Europe. Why would you think he has a Best Buy?
posted by DarlingBri at 4:58 PM on March 2, 2014
The Alienware laptops are excellent at any level, even the 14" entry level. The Inspiron I linked to is not the entry level Inspiron; it is merely the first in the Inspiron series rated for multimedia.
I think it's worth heading over to Best Buy
The OP lives in Europe. Why would you think he has a Best Buy?
posted by DarlingBri at 4:58 PM on March 2, 2014
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Q1. How does he define "runs properly" when it comes to games? Does it have to be at full resolution with all the bells and whistles on? Or does it just have to look acceptable and play well?
Q2. How does he define "portable"? A 18 inch massive powerhouse gaming laptop is technically "portable", even when it clocks in at 12 pounds. If he's looking for something in the same featherweight class as a Macbook Air, well, he'll get similar gaming performance. The low-voltage chips, lowered RAM memory and low-powered integrated graphics chipsets you see in Ultrabooks simply aren't the best at gaming. They'll do an okay job, but he'll be running that laptop at the redline. If he really wants to do gaming on a laptop, it's gonna be something a bit chunkier, like an Alienware 14 or something similar. League of Legends will probably do fine on an upper-end Ultrabook, FIFA14 with lowered graphics settings as well, but don't expect to run BF4 on Ultra - or much at all. At this price range, it's going to be a choice between graphical prowess and featherlight portability - which is more important to him?
A1. Most well-reviewed Ultrabooks tend to be pretty reliable. The segment is still largely marketed towards more upper-end buyers and has strong Intel backing, so there's a lot of incentive to put out quality laptops. The big makers of quality PC laptops are, to my knowledge, Lenovo, Alienware (which is owned by Dell), HP, some Dell products (XPS), and some Asus products. Sony has never had the best reputation for PC laptops, partly for quality reasons at times, mostly for cramming their computers full of crapware and adware. If you're looking for a more gaming-performance oriented laptop, I've heard a lot of great things about MSI's laptop lineup as well.
A2. Good news: any PC laptop in the price range you're looking at will run Steam. What's the bigger question is what games he wants to run on Steam, as mentioned previously.
A3. "Netbook" is a category that got devoured by Ultrabooks and tablets - it refers to small laptops using older generations of low-powered chipsets. Chromebooks are a specific type of ultra-light laptop that doesn't run Windows - it runs ChromeOS, basically Google's Chrome browser turned into an OS. It doesn't run programs, so it's not what you're looking for.
For that price, as I mentioned above, it's really down to a choice between gaming power and portability. If portability is his main requirement, an Ultrabook from one of the manufacturers I mentioned above is probably your best option. ("Ultrabook" being an Intel-defined spec, see here for more details) However, that does mean that for most options, there will not be an internal optical drive option. However, for anything that isn't watching movies or installing software you only have on physical media, USB flash drives are just as good of an option, and portable USB Blu-Ray drives are a good alternative. Still, if an internal optical drive is a 100% requirement, there are some good Ultrabooks out there that fit within your price range that feature one, if I recall correctly.
As far as gaming laptops go, something that's well-reviewed from the manufacturers above, again, would be my choice. You'll be bumping up against the upper-end of your price bracket (and very likely might be entirely out of reach), but there are good deals to be had too. Gaming laptops tend not the be the most sleek and sexy things out there, but if having a video editing and gaming powerhouse is what he wants, then an Ultrabook probably won't cut the mustard. They're really meant more for business productivity and web surfing.
posted by Punkey at 2:44 AM on March 2, 2014