How am I ever going to get a job?

October 17, 2005 6:13 AM

How am I ever going to get a job?

Here's my situation:
- I have zero experience in any kind of paid employment or similar
- I just finished a degree in Media Technology, though I left with only an Ordinary Degree (without Honours). I know a lot about the topic though.
- I'm a fairly good Mac programmer (and troubleshooter)
- I've done various projects in PHP/MySQL, but have little to show off
- I have no driving license or foreign language skills, and am shy to the point of rudeness
- I'm in central London

Here's what I've found:
- Every temp agency I've spoken to isn't interested in people without experience
- All media-related jobs require two years experience in one thing or another
- Every computing job requires a Computer Science degree and experience with VB, Windows 2000, .NET, etc, of which I have none
- There is zero demand for Mac programmers in this country
- Every entry-level graduate position in any field requires a 2:1 Honours degree minimum

Any suggestions of who would actually want to hire me any time in the near future?

(I have no idea what to try next, so please suggest anything you can think of)

posted by cillit bang to Work & Money (28 answers total)

Response by poster: (I should add why I think they should: Because I'm smart, knowledgeable, and good at getting things done, especially where computers and A/V tech are involved)
posted by cillit bang at 6:14 AM on October 17, 2005

Get a job at a university near you. They are usually pretty forgiving with the experience thing. Many low and mid-level university jobs give you flexibility to explore new tings and develop even your skills that are not explicitly related to yoru job description. If it's a large school, there will be plenty of connections for you to make, which can help you eventually land a better job. Plus, many universities give their employees 20+ vacation days to start with. Not too shabby compared with teh usull 2 weeks...Of course this is in the states. Not sure how it works across the pond.
posted by mds35 at 6:19 AM on October 17, 2005

I'm not sure how things work in London, but I know in the US companies often ask for X years of experience and Y degree, but are willing to consider other applicants that don't meet those exact requirements. Maybe you should apply for the jobs anyway, even if you don't meet their exact requirements.

Oh, and network! Ask people you know if they could recommend you for any positions. Sometimes a good recommendation is better than experience.

Also, have you considered freelancing? I did some freelance work in college (some of it unpaid) just to gain some experience.
posted by geeky at 6:20 AM on October 17, 2005

Errr...apparently, the school where I used to work was not known for grammar or spelling. Need coffee...
posted by mds35 at 6:21 AM on October 17, 2005

Get shit work that pays the bills then do 'voluntary' work that get something relevant to where you want to be in your future career on your CV. The London media rely heavily on people to whom they can pay nothing (or close to it), but experience and contacts is what will pay your bills ten years down the line. Getting a career in media in London and still being able to eat was always going to be a testing career move.
posted by biffa at 6:23 AM on October 17, 2005

If you're applying for advertised jobs you will be competing against the people with 2:1 degrees and internship experience and blah blah but there are plenty of "hidden" jobs you can ferret out if you start networking and if you target the sort of places you want to work.

And take some driving lessons! if you think that will help.
posted by jamesonandwater at 6:27 AM on October 17, 2005

Second the crap work that pays the bills recommendation.

And then, if you're good at the web stuff, build up a portfolio of web sites. do work for small charities for nothing in your evenings, building up the proof that you can actually hack it as a web hacker.
posted by handee at 6:33 AM on October 17, 2005

Response by poster: How do I go about getting "shit work"? How do I find "voluntary work"? How do I "network"? You all seriously underestimate my cluelessness.
posted by cillit bang at 6:34 AM on October 17, 2005

Don't colleges have counsellors and career advisors these days?
posted by benzo8 at 6:42 AM on October 17, 2005

How do you get sh*t work?

Go get a sh*t job. Go to temping agencies, go to McDonalds. Take anything.
posted by Frasermoo at 6:49 AM on October 17, 2005

A friend of mine who went through the portfolio route wrote to some local charities and asked if they needed any websites doing. I think he looked up charities in the yellow pages, then wrote to those who didn't turn up after a quick google. The letter has to convince them that: a) you're not a going to waste their time or try the patience of their staff; b) you're not going to produce something they'll be embarrassed of; and bonus marks for c) you'll show them how to maintain it.

Basically, you need to treat getting a voluntary web job just like getting a web job. With luck, the bar's set a little lower though. Might help if you come up with a few sites off your own bat ("I can do things like this" is much easier for non techies to understand).
posted by handee at 6:54 AM on October 17, 2005

There's a number of sites where you can bid for web- and programming projects. Bid low, get the work, build up a resume.
posted by signal at 6:56 AM on October 17, 2005

Doesn't your university have an internship program? Mine has a program that hooks students up with employers. Employers get cheap labor and the student gets sweet, precious experience.
posted by boo_radley at 7:05 AM on October 17, 2005

Yes, you will get a job. Get into the habit of applying for jobs. Aim for 7 a week which may mean applying for positions above what you reckon you can do. But if you don't ask then you don't get and you may be surprised.Check out the guardian. I think Media jobs go in on a Thursday. Put your CV on jobserve - companies do actually look at - mines does although we've been looking there for a Web Designer for about a month now with no luck...

Also, IAMNAP but you sounds as if your main problem is lack of confidence. Go to as many interviews as you can to get used to the process. Be enthusiastic or learn to fake it. If you get knocked back then ask for feedback and try again. Good luck!
posted by oh pollo! at 7:05 AM on October 17, 2005

Is there a second tier of work that you're able to do but feel that you're overqualified for? I know you feel you can't do a lot of the required programming for some jobs, but what about doing easy content management work, like adding stuff to an intranet via WYSIWYG tools. Sometimes you can spin one of those jobs into something more. Same thing with tech support. A lot of companies hire from within before posting for a job.

As for networking, do you have any friends or professional contacts? Do they have any friends who work at places that might have the sort of job you want? What about that guy you met at the bar or who lives in your building that carries his laptop around? Seriously, many jobs are filled by friends-of-friends, not by people who walked in off the street.
posted by mikeh at 7:18 AM on October 17, 2005

Learn some of the stuff covered in books like Don't Send a CV, by Jeffrey Fox (you can find much of his advice for free online, search for his name).

Going in the 'front door' is for losers or people who just shuffle paper or work pointless 9 to 5 jobs. You need to get in through the back door, through determination, through networking, and through working your balls off. When you do that.. stupid stuff like degrees don't really matter so much. jamesonandwater, above, hinted at this.
posted by wackybrit at 7:26 AM on October 17, 2005

It's all about the portfolio. When I'm looking through CVs, it's nice to see good qualifications and a good university, but the most impressive thing you can do is making a cool website or tool.

It's also all about networking. Networking doesn't just mean going to swanky cocktail parties with people you hate, it means telling your friends that you're looking for work and asking them to spread the word.
posted by adrianhon at 7:26 AM on October 17, 2005

Apply for a position as an Apple Genius or Apple Creative at the closest Apple Store.

Talk up your skills to the creative-types who bring their PowerBooks in for servicing. Keep business cards on hand with your contact information and sneak them to the customers. This might be hard for you since you're shy, but you can consider the first 100 customers "practice"--I bet eventually you'll get better at selling yourself.

With any luck, you'll find a more interesting, better paying job within a few months.
posted by bcwinters at 7:56 AM on October 17, 2005

Shit work: My first job was working behind the bar in a student union, got it largely because I knew the managers. You probably know someone who will need someone like you to do this kind of work. Otherwise look in your local papers, there are always people looking for low wage/high turnover jobs. You may not like the first one you get, but you can always move-on - this will also allow you to switch out if things relevant to career-development come along.

Networking: Do make sure your friends know that you're (a) looking for work and (b) roughly what you're looking for. Don't bore them rigid but do bring it up as topic of conversation; instead of saying 'did you see such a thing on tv', just drop in job searching as a topic of conversation, e.g. do it in the form of asking for advice - everyone likes giving advice!

If you go for a job interview make sure you follow it up asking what was missing from your skillset and how you might best address this, even consider doing this with failed application submission. Don't be afraid to ask for advice on what you should be doing/where else you might look.

Someone mentioned careers departments/services, in the UK if you graduated in the last three years you should be able take advantage of a system whereby you can get advice from your local HE institutions careers service, even if you didn't attend there. Worth a try.

Good luck with things. If it helps at all, I got a pass degree when I first went to uni but now have a PhD and lecture at a respectable UK institution.
posted by biffa at 8:01 AM on October 17, 2005

If you know PHP and MySQL, you might think about contributing to an open source project to get some experience. Dig around on SourceForge to see what projects need help and see if you can do some coding for them. There are many of them that need help. If I saw that you had contributed significant code to a project when reading a resume, I'd probably want to talk to you.

And don't worry about your GPA or whether you got honors or not. Such things make it a little easier to get your foot in the door for your first professional job but past that don't matter much at all. In fact, at one of my jobs we had an informal policy to not hire college graduates with a 4.0 average figuring that they'd be too boring and rigid to be very creative.

And again, network and network again. Is there an alumi organization from your school that you can use? Find graduates who are working and send them email to see if they know of any jobs. People usually love to help our fellow alumni. What are your recent classmates doing? Where did they get jobs?
posted by octothorpe at 8:03 AM on October 17, 2005

Rent-a-Coder is a good place to pick up some beer money and maybe pad your portfolio a little. There may be similar services in the UK, but I know people who have used Rent-a-coder, and it doesn't really matter where you are.
posted by Yorrick at 8:13 AM on October 17, 2005

The shyness thing is going to be the thing that gets you if you let it. You get jobs by meeting the minimum requirements for the job (generally below what is listed in the advertisement, and often not much more than being intelligent and hard-working), and having the interviewer like you.

If you can cope with the pain of rejection, then your best bet is to do as many interviews as you possibly can - eventually the interviewer will be someone with a similar personality and / or looking for "rough diamonds" (this honestly does happen!), sees your potential past the words on the CV and hires you.

Whatever you do, don't be fatalistic about applying for jobs - apply for ANYTHING that sounds interesting. The worst that can happen is it costs you a stamp and a little time. If you don't meet the requirements, then spend a lot of effort on a well crafted cover letter, and if you can cope with it, try to telephone the person responsible ahead of sending your CV to explain your situation and tell them a little about yourself. You will find you get more interviews this way, as people (in the UK at least), tend to find it hard to blow out someone they've spoken to in person.

Good luck!
posted by bifter at 8:26 AM on October 17, 2005

Why not take some acceptable day job that keeps you away from customers and work on an open source project at night. (For instance, I ran copy machines during the day while learning how to program and whatnot...)

That way, you can build up a reputation, dip your toes in the industry, and get some skillz in the process...
posted by ph00dz at 8:28 AM on October 17, 2005

Volunteer opportunities that will help you build your portfolio as well as your networking base:

Idealist.org, specifically positions like this, this, or this. Try Craiglist: London. Develop projects in your spare time for organizations on the web where you know your approach could improve things and put them in your portfolio as an example of how you approach projects.
posted by jeanmari at 8:43 AM on October 17, 2005

When I was younger I always worried about bugging the hiring person; 'didn't want to bother them'. Now that I have to hire people I feel that was wrong. Keep calling and emailing until you get a yes or firm no. I know this will be hard for you because you said you are shy but stick to it and defiantly try for jobs that are described as being above your qualifications, most of that stuff is bullshit.

I respectfully disagree with the 'shit job' stuff as it tends to hurt your motivation. You might wake up one day going to work and realize you are on you're way to your 'shit job' and haven't done anything toward a career in decades.

*looking around blinking at the fluorescent glare feeling old*
posted by Mr T at 10:28 AM on October 17, 2005

Call up your local non-profits (advocacy groups for the disabled [developmental/physical], SPCA, support programs for the homeless/street-kids, &c).

Email, phone, walk into their offices, whatever.

The pay won't be as good but you'll get a shot at acruing some experience and it may open up networking opportunities.
posted by PurplePorpoise at 11:18 AM on October 17, 2005

That's why they call it an internship.

Start with one at an Apple store or your University. No longer than 6 months. Now you have some practical experience - be movtivated, make great impression and people willl recommend you.

If you *need* pay now, there are lots of shitty jobs that will pay with little/no experience (wallmart, your local computer store might see you as a valuable commodity even if you don't know how to talk to customers yet..)
posted by filmgeek at 12:03 PM on October 17, 2005

Just read your post where you answered an OSX question. Go find who handles corporate OSX support (some will be internal.) You clearly know the minutae...the question of working with others is what they'll be worried about.

The shy/rudness thing could really hurt you. Perhaps there's a service like Geeks to Go in the UK. If you're so-so with people, you might see if they have back room/internal support. Oh, work cheap to start with. Get that first job.
posted by filmgeek at 5:29 PM on October 17, 2005