Mama I do it! Mama you do it!

December 13, 2013 10:35 AM

I have a 2 year old (26 months to be very precise). We have entered the phase of "I do it!", which is okay in and of itself, but a pattern is starting to appear. He wants to, say, put on his coat himself. Great! Usually one of 2 things happens: he puts it on himself (about 10% of the time), or as soon as I hand him the coat he insists that I do it. So I start to do it, but I get a tearful "MAMA I DO IT!" He creates an impasse where I can't help him but he refuses to do what he says he wants to do.

A common piece of advice that I've read/heard is that presenting 2 choices works well at this stage because it gives them a semblance of control. Any choice I present ends up in this kind of impasse. If I offer him a banana or an apple, he will say apple. As I reach for the apple: "banana, mama, banana!" Fantastic here's a bana..."AAAAAAAAPLE!!"

So in short, the usual advise for handling toddlers is not working with my particular one. In all I've read I can't really find examples of how to handle this particular scenario. I've tried redirection, with limited success. I've tried time outs, which do seem to work in the short term but are doing nothing for the long term. I've tried talking to him at eye level, but he's really in no mood for that.

He's generally a very loving, active, agreeable little guy. He has a great vocabulary and we can usually get him to use his words and talk to us in other circumstances, but in this particular scenario he gets stuck in a loop of his own making and I'm not sure how to a) stop it in the moment, and b) guide him away from it entirely (if that's even possible at this stage).

Books? Articles? Real life advice? Thanks!

posted by DrGirlfriend to Human Relations (26 answers total)

It doesn't sound to me like he's just being a willful little brat. That can happen, but it tends to look different than what you're describing, e.g., when presented with the choice of an apple and a banana, either refusing both or demanding ice cream. No, it sounds like he's genuinely stuck in some kind of recursive decision tree and just doesn't know what he wants. Like the "My son is crying because he poured a glass of water over his own face" or "My son is crying because I helped him put on his favorite boots" type thing.

My suggestion? Give him about two weeks. Two is a tough age, in no small part because they seem to jump from maddening phase to maddening phase even faster than they outgrow their clothes.

So the good news is that, almost regardless of what you do, he'll probably stop doing this by the end of the month. The bad news is that, again, almost regardless of what you do, he'll probably start doing something equally bizarre and unhelpful instead.

The other good news is that there's very little that's wrong with being two that being three doesn't fix. He'll grow out of it.
posted by valkyryn at 10:46 AM on December 13, 2013 [5 favorites]

If it switches to Mama do it a second time, put the coat on to your body and defuse the situation with silly?

I'd argue that two is a bit young for time outs, but that's just been my limited experience (had zero effect on my kids). Most places they were in daycare didn't really start time outs until the three or four year old room.
posted by tilde at 10:46 AM on December 13, 2013 [1 favorite]

Have you tried doing something patently silly? For example, in the coat scenario, try putting his coat on yourself, with all the attendant mugging and failing; or draping your coat over him.
posted by Etrigan at 10:46 AM on December 13, 2013

My son totally did this all the time. I wouldn't do time outs for this, he's not doing it to be annoying, this is just something that little kids do.

Depending on the situation, I would end it one of two ways: either just give them one of the two things ("Here's your banana" and ignore any complaints about wanting an apple) or by making him laugh (crossing my eyes and blowing raspberries then putting his coat on him).

It's a phase, it will pass.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 10:52 AM on December 13, 2013

Response by poster: Not threadsitting, but just a note re: the time outs. I use them when he starts to work himself up into a frenzy, which happens a lot in this situation if I let it go on too long. So it's more a "let's calm down a bit and revisit" thing than a punishment. I put him in his crib for 2 minutes and he's almost always calmed down by then. Then we talk about it, hug, and by then he's generally able to make a decision and stick to it.
posted by DrGirlfriend at 10:54 AM on December 13, 2013

It's a phase, it will pass.

And pass quickly. In the interim, why not give junior tasks that he can successfully do. Putting on a hat, for example, turning off the light switch , etc. My impression from my own kids is that they desperately want some control over their lives so what you do is as much as possible give them things that they can successfully do so they feel a sense of control.

Also - important - work this out (what you will do and what the kid will do) THE NIGHT BEFORE so you aren't standing at the door in a rush negotiating/arguing.

ENJOY this time with your child - as challenging as it may be - you only get one chance, it passes quickly, and you will miss it when it's gone.
posted by three blind mice at 11:04 AM on December 13, 2013 [2 favorites]

When it comes to choosing between two items like a banana or an apple, I would give them both to him and tell him to choose. When he starts to bite the pieces of apple, take the banana and put it away (or eat it yourself!)

For the coat type example, I would say somthing along the lines of "Let's do it together. You help mommy get hers on and I will help you with yours. We are a team!" or "We can do our coats at the same time. What is first? Lay the coat on the floor? Ok let's do that. Put our arms in the sleeves? Ok let's do it. Flip it over our heads? Whee. Oh, it looks like you need a little help with the zipper. Do you want me or daddy to do it?"
posted by JohnnyGunn at 11:07 AM on December 13, 2013 [6 favorites]

If he changes his mind and insists you help him, help him.

If he changes his mind and wants a banana instead, give it to him.

Having had a two year old, I'd recommend just treating him like a drunk. They get better later, but in there are far fewer teaching moments than I think people think.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 11:09 AM on December 13, 2013 [41 favorites]

Re your update: I think the trick is to not let it go on too long so he doesn't get worked up in the first place. After mine did the mind-changing thing* 2-3 times I would end it using one of the strategies listed above.

*which reminds me... whenever he did this I would also say "did you change your mind?" and he would say "I did" ... I think it helped him understand what was going on and eventually reduced this behavior because he was able to say "I changed my mind." So you might also want to try just naming the things that are going on inside him. This also really helps with feelings "I know you're frustrated, it's OK, we all get frustrated sometimes" etc. which can help them feel more in control of their emotions (and also lead to some comical moments, like when my son told me "Dinner is bad, and I'm sad about it.").
posted by rabbitrabbit at 11:15 AM on December 13, 2013 [12 favorites]

by then he's generally able to make a decision and stick to it.

Heck, the fact that he can do this at all at his age is kind of impressive.
posted by valkyryn at 11:25 AM on December 13, 2013 [1 favorite]

In situations similar to yours I have sometimes found out years later that I didn't understand what the child was too little to be able to communicate. So it sounds like you have a smart little guy who maybe can't communicate all he wants. Maybe try offering that you do the activity such as putting on the coat "together" so you "share". Other times he can do a task together with you like helping you to put on your coat. So you help him and then he helps you.

With regard to decisions, I sometimes find that my much older children just aren't able to decide whether due to being overwhelmed with choice or just not in the right mood or energy level, so could try backing off with the decisions and just offering the banana or the apple for now. Also is it possible in that example that he wants both and doesn't know how to communicate it.

Good luck!
posted by RoadScholar at 11:39 AM on December 13, 2013

Coming from a faraway place, I'd suggest that while 2-year olds are in a phase of life where they want more control and agency, they can't have it. If he were in my charge, he'd get one chance to manage that coat a day, and then I'd take over. With food, the choices should be even more limited: here is a plate with pieces of banana and apple, eat what you want. Pears are not available, even if they are on the counter.
Choices are for: do you want to use the pink or the black crayon? And for do you want to try the swings or the slide? When there is plenty of time and no worries.
This is because 2-year olds are very small children, who are in no way able to judge what would be a good choice when it comes to food, climate/clothes, time, sleep, hygiene etc. Pretending that they have a choice just confuses them, in my opinion.

On the other hand, I have only very rarely used any form of discipline, and I have regretted it every time. No timeouts, no scolding and obviously no spanking. Children generally really, really want to be friends, and if they are doing something you disapprove of, it's mostly because they don't understand what you want. So you need to make it clearer. If you want him to get on that coat now, because you are going out, tell him. If you have time for 15 minutes talking about coats and "I do it/you do it", ask him what he wants (which can absolutely be an option, in my world, if only the child can very clearly tell the difference between the two)
posted by mumimor at 11:41 AM on December 13, 2013 [4 favorites]

I remember "you get what you get" as a common refrain from my parents when I whined about this sort of thing when I was very small.
posted by Sara C. at 11:55 AM on December 13, 2013

This is a phase, and it will pass. Remember his brain is still developing, and a lot of this will resolve itself soon. With my own son, mostly I wait a few beats to see if he will change his mind. If he needs redirection, the multivitamin gummy bears have worked wonders in our house.
posted by ambrosia at 12:18 PM on December 13, 2013 [1 favorite]

My son is just a few months older than yours, and while he didn't do this exactly, he does plenty of waffling. I try (try) to just ride it out and accept that he's still learning how to make up his mind. For indecision around choices (food, for example), maybe try lines like, "you can have either thing A or thing B, just let me know when you're ready to decide." For things he wants to do but can't, let him try and offer the minimum possible assistance until he decides he's done trying. Stay calm, give yourself extra time to get things done, and try to meet him where he is. Toddler's brains are strange and complicated places.

Oh, and for the coat-donning specifically, definitely teach him the filperoo.
posted by that's candlepin at 12:28 PM on December 13, 2013 [1 favorite]

When learning about choices, kids have to learn that their choices have consequences (namely, living with the choice they made). So, say "apple or banana?" he chooses apple, give him the apple. If he changes to banana, just say (without any special fanfare or whatever) "you chose the apple. maybe next time you can choose the banana." and then remove the banana from the situation. "But I want the bananaaaaaa" "Well, you only have the apple. So you can choose to eat the apple or not eat the apple." (that is, if the apple is just a supplemental snack and not part of an actual meal) Basically, stop thinking of the previous choice, that one's done. Think about the new choice.

For the coat, if you're in a rush, then you can't really give him the choice to do it. If he protests you doing it, just tell him he can help next time maybe. And carry on fastening the coat as if that's just the way the world is - as certain as gravity, the sunset, etc. Or, he fastens the coat and takes a long time, but now you can't do some other part of the trip that he likes because fastening the coat took too long ("No we can't drive by the house with the Christmas lights today, because putting your coat on took a long time. Maybe next time, if you let mom do it and it goes quickly, we can drive by that house.") Again, not said in an accusatory way, but rather a matter-of-fact way.

This "maybe next time" phrase also helps relieve some anxiety that comes with learning to choose (the paradox of choice) -- it's ok if you're unhappy with the result of your choice, because you'll be presented with the choice again soon and able to make a different choice that time.

This may seem sophisticated for a 2 year old, but you'd be surprised.
posted by melissasaurus at 12:32 PM on December 13, 2013 [2 favorites]

Re-think the way you're offering choices. Giving just two options is an excellent tool, but only if those options are both GOOD ones.

For a specific example with regard to the coat, instead of Mom do it or Me do it, try changing it up, depending on how capable he is at putting it on. If he's pretty good at it, make it "Do you want to put on your coat or do you want me to hold it (the arms) for you?" And then when you offer the coat to him, hold it out in a way that he can just slip his arms in if he wishes.

If he's not so good at it, or the above isn't effective because he's choosing to do it himself, then refusing to do it, make it a choice of Me (half) do it (the hold coat for him, but he puts in his arms), or Mom do it totally.

Finding a half Me do / half Mom do it compromise on things can work really, really well with some kids... note that it doesn't have to be totally them, just give them a way to believe they're in control.
posted by stormyteal at 12:50 PM on December 13, 2013

we sometimes used the technique of "would you like the apple or the banana? you can choose, or if you don't choose, we will choose for you and you can choose next time." that way he sort of knew that he couldn't go back and forth endlessly. he still didn't like it when we made the choice for him, but we'd just keep reminding him that next time he could try choosing again. or not :)
posted by eseuss at 1:15 PM on December 13, 2013

This is really, really typical. My just-turned-2-year-old will ask for milk and then get mad at you when you give him some milk because you are some kind of horrible jerk or something. I don't know. I think sometimes he's sort of thinking out loud. Two-year-olds live very much in the now and mine is at that stage where you have to spell out e-v-e-r-y-t-h-i-n-g because if he hears you say "We need more cheese" he will start demanding cheese. So if you offer him an apple or a banana, he sees them both so he says them both out loud. It doesn't mean he necessarily really wants one or the other.

Choices are good, but too many can make him anxious, I think. I don't offer my son choices for everything. He wants to do a lot himself too, and I let him try, but I will say gently, "You look like you need some help. Can I help you?" That helps sometimes because he will take me up on it.

Two-year-olds don't know what they want all of the time and that's OK. They're still figuring things out.
posted by sutel at 1:41 PM on December 13, 2013 [4 favorites]

Try letting him help but differently. Also maybe less choice. When he gets stuck in a loop solve and offer a bit of direction for him, "Here you put on your hat, I"ll put on your coat." Getting him to chose some things seems to get getting him stuck in a decision loop so get him out of it. Another option might be, "I'll do your coat this time you can do it next time", that way he gets both choices.
posted by wwax at 1:48 PM on December 13, 2013

Response by poster: FWIW, since I think I may have misworded the question a bit - I'm not offering choices left and right. I offer choices sometimes, such as at snacktime, or, "do you want the red or blue shirt today?" My thinking in offering the choices was, is he acting out when it comes time to put on his coat or walk in the door (yes, that can be another infinite loop of "I walk" and "Mama carry me") because he's feeling like he doesn't have enough self-determination, or is this just normal behavior? But my feeling, which I think is getting validated here, is that maybe choices are not for him right now. And that this is normal behavior :)

He does do the fliperoo! He's very good at it and very proud of himself when he does it. The issue is getting him to do it. I've also tried the "ok, now I'm going to do it for you" approach, but that ends in a physical struggle and that's not the road I want to go down. I love the idea of doing silly things because that seems totally his style; I'm a little embarrassed that it didn't occur to me before! I'll be trying that tonight when I pick him up from preschool.

Thanks for all the replies! I generally feel pretty confident handling what he throws at me, but this situation really tests my patience so having extra ideas really helps. Also, I will always remember this when I need to just laugh it off: "Having had a two year old, I'd recommend just treating him like a drunk."
posted by DrGirlfriend at 2:00 PM on December 13, 2013 [4 favorites]

Nthing that this is completely normal behavior for his age. When my daughter was about 25 months, she asked for a graham cracker. I gave her a square and she took a bite and then lost her little mind. When she finally calmed down, I sussed out that the issue with the graham cracker was that it wasn't whole. You know, after she took a bite out of it.

I always thought that parenting small children was 20% redirection and 80% distraction, on a good day. Hang in there, it gets better.
posted by cooker girl at 5:43 PM on December 13, 2013 [3 favorites]

I know a lot of people recommend letting kids this age make choices but when mine were little (and real close together) I made the choice/let them know how things were going to be and that was that. There is plenty of life left to let kids make choices. Doing it at that age is more a recipe for making mama snatch herself baldheaded.


(Mine are all adults now and they all know how to make a decision.)
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 9:26 PM on December 13, 2013

The narrative thing is an AMAZING strategy that I wished I had known when my kids were little. I use it now with my grandkids and have seen it diffuse many a meltdown. Just narrate what is going on. Oh, you are mad because... You are frustrated because... It's hard to put on a coat. It's hard to decide which fruit to take when you can only have one thing. It's magic.
posted by tamitang at 12:59 PM on December 14, 2013 [1 favorite]

Keep all these things in mind because when this little sweetie becomes a teenager, it will seem like you are doing the same thing again.....but the one thing I learned was that when the meltdown does occur that you stay calm and there...that counts a ton for kiddos ( and grownups) of any age...and you sound like a fantastic mom...
posted by OhSusannah at 8:24 PM on December 15, 2013

Response by poster: I'm just going to drop this in here for the benefit of anyone who might stumble on this question later.

Re: choices - cut them down and I feel this has been for the best. I let him go to his bookcase and pick out a book to read, but no choices re: snacks, clothes, etc. This has suited him very well. Given how popular the "give them choices!" advice is, it just goes to show that every kid is different.

Re: the infinite loop of I do it and Mama do it! - This really, really dropped off about a couple of weeks after I posted this question. It's still too early to tell if the respite is temporary, but so far, so good. I think part of it might have been a developmental stage, but something that has really helped is when I do things at the same time as him as much as possible. We put on our coats together (sometimes I even do the fliperoo move too!), we brush our teeth together, etc. That seems to have worked amazingly well for him. He's at a stage where he still loves our company and I think that's something that I can use to my advantage.
posted by DrGirlfriend at 11:18 AM on January 13, 2014 [1 favorite]