Should I ask the man I'm seeing not to have a vasectomy?
November 19, 2013 5:15 PM Subscribe
I'm in my mid-20's, leaning towards not having kids, but recognize that I could change my mind. I just started dating a wonderful man who has scheduled a vasectomy for next month. Is it asking too much to ask him to reconsider?
So after a painful breakup a year and a half ago and much time on my own, I've started dating a man I'm absolutely crazy about. We've only been together for two months, but we both agree we can see things going further. We've talked about, and agreed on, money, religion, life goals, where to live, travel, ideas on romantic relationships, and a million other things.
He has two young children from his previous marriage. Right when we started dating, he mentioned he was going in for a vasectomy consultation. This did not bother me at first because I've always leaned towards not having kids. I also had not developed strong feelings for him at that point. However, I'm in my mid 20's and biologically speaking have at least 10 more years where I could change my mind. I'm not someone who was born fantasizing about a family, but now that I'm with someone who is stable, supportive and caring, it has led me to wonder what could be. Plus, I have the advantage of already being able to see him in the role of a father, and he is so wonderful at it. I have not met his children yet, but I know he dotes on them and does whatever he can for them. I've thought about the possibility that perhaps when I do meet them it will fulfill whatever future desire I have to be a parent. Or maybe it would only increase that desire...since his surgery is in a month, there isn't time for me to find out.
I brought this up with him, and we talked about several alternatives. He's ok with adopting and I suppose I am too, but I still would like the option of having a biological kid. We discussed having the vasectomy reversed in the future, but after about 3 years the chances of becoming pregnant drop significantly. We also talked about freezing his sperm, but there are costs associated with storing it and if I wanted to become pregnant, there would be the cost of becoming inseminated. I will add that I am currently on the NuvaRing and love it, so we already are using one form of birth control. Still, he is worried about the possibility of accidental pregnancy.
My biggest fear is that I will be okay with the vasectomy in the short term, and then at some point years down the road decide I want kids and either will have to sacrifice that desire to be with him or leave the relationship, which I believe has the potential to be great, and enter the dating world again. Then again I might never change my mind and be perfectly content in the role of stepmom.
Should I talk to him about delaying his procedure, being that I'm not sure that I will ever want kids? After all, he is open to the idea of having more kids in the future if it's something I want, because he's okay with adoption, reversal, and storing his sperm. Or would it be better to store the sperm, put up with the cost, and then he can get the procedure done, which will be giving us both what we want?
So after a painful breakup a year and a half ago and much time on my own, I've started dating a man I'm absolutely crazy about. We've only been together for two months, but we both agree we can see things going further. We've talked about, and agreed on, money, religion, life goals, where to live, travel, ideas on romantic relationships, and a million other things.
He has two young children from his previous marriage. Right when we started dating, he mentioned he was going in for a vasectomy consultation. This did not bother me at first because I've always leaned towards not having kids. I also had not developed strong feelings for him at that point. However, I'm in my mid 20's and biologically speaking have at least 10 more years where I could change my mind. I'm not someone who was born fantasizing about a family, but now that I'm with someone who is stable, supportive and caring, it has led me to wonder what could be. Plus, I have the advantage of already being able to see him in the role of a father, and he is so wonderful at it. I have not met his children yet, but I know he dotes on them and does whatever he can for them. I've thought about the possibility that perhaps when I do meet them it will fulfill whatever future desire I have to be a parent. Or maybe it would only increase that desire...since his surgery is in a month, there isn't time for me to find out.
I brought this up with him, and we talked about several alternatives. He's ok with adopting and I suppose I am too, but I still would like the option of having a biological kid. We discussed having the vasectomy reversed in the future, but after about 3 years the chances of becoming pregnant drop significantly. We also talked about freezing his sperm, but there are costs associated with storing it and if I wanted to become pregnant, there would be the cost of becoming inseminated. I will add that I am currently on the NuvaRing and love it, so we already are using one form of birth control. Still, he is worried about the possibility of accidental pregnancy.
My biggest fear is that I will be okay with the vasectomy in the short term, and then at some point years down the road decide I want kids and either will have to sacrifice that desire to be with him or leave the relationship, which I believe has the potential to be great, and enter the dating world again. Then again I might never change my mind and be perfectly content in the role of stepmom.
Should I talk to him about delaying his procedure, being that I'm not sure that I will ever want kids? After all, he is open to the idea of having more kids in the future if it's something I want, because he's okay with adoption, reversal, and storing his sperm. Or would it be better to store the sperm, put up with the cost, and then he can get the procedure done, which will be giving us both what we want?
The big red flag for me, here, is that people who go in for vasectomy consults typically do so because they don't want children.
That seems like an awfully big ask.
I think before you talk to him about delaying/canceling the procedure, you should talk to him honestly about whether he wants more children. Not could you see yourself adopting, what if we froze your sperm, etc. but Do You Want More Children Ever.
posted by Sara C. at 5:20 PM on November 19, 2013 [24 favorites]
That seems like an awfully big ask.
I think before you talk to him about delaying/canceling the procedure, you should talk to him honestly about whether he wants more children. Not could you see yourself adopting, what if we froze your sperm, etc. but Do You Want More Children Ever.
posted by Sara C. at 5:20 PM on November 19, 2013 [24 favorites]
If a dude I just started dating tried to tell me how to manage my own reproductive health, I would be all OH HOLY WHAT THE FUCK up on him so fast his head would spin. So please realize that, at least from my perspective, what you are suggesting sounds kind of tremendously unreasonable.
But if you want to have the discussion (which you definitely should, for instance, if you decide it's something you're not ok with, because presumably if he gets the vasectomy you would consider leaving the relationship), I think you should go armed with an alternative. And the alternative is that you would get an IUD.
IUDs can be great for lots of women. My Mirena is more effective at preventing pregnancy than tubal ligation. More effective than tubal ligation. That's a pretty compelling argument. If you guys are exclusive and pregnancy prevention is #1 on his mind, then you saying "hey, instead of you going off and getting a vasectomy, how about I go and get an IUD, would that work?" and then offering to revisit the topic at a later date...I think that would go a long way.
posted by phunniemee at 5:21 PM on November 19, 2013 [22 favorites]
But if you want to have the discussion (which you definitely should, for instance, if you decide it's something you're not ok with, because presumably if he gets the vasectomy you would consider leaving the relationship), I think you should go armed with an alternative. And the alternative is that you would get an IUD.
IUDs can be great for lots of women. My Mirena is more effective at preventing pregnancy than tubal ligation. More effective than tubal ligation. That's a pretty compelling argument. If you guys are exclusive and pregnancy prevention is #1 on his mind, then you saying "hey, instead of you going off and getting a vasectomy, how about I go and get an IUD, would that work?" and then offering to revisit the topic at a later date...I think that would go a long way.
posted by phunniemee at 5:21 PM on November 19, 2013 [22 favorites]
Honestly, I think that if it's bothering you now in such an early relationship, it's only going to get worse as the relationship grows and you get older. I know how that feels to not be sure that you want kids but to not want to rule it out completely. I would go for storing the sperm if he really wants to get a vasectomy now.
posted by hazel79 at 5:21 PM on November 19, 2013
posted by hazel79 at 5:21 PM on November 19, 2013
Can you actually pinpoint a time when you'll be okay with him getting it or that you are totally against it? Because it sounds like the dude has made a pretty significant decision to stop being able to father biological kids, and it would not be the most reasonable of requests to ask him to delay the procedure until question mark.
I am assuming, of course, that you two will continue to have sex while you decide, and thus run the risk of pregnancy, which is the thing he is trying to avoid.
posted by griphus at 5:21 PM on November 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
I am assuming, of course, that you two will continue to have sex while you decide, and thus run the risk of pregnancy, which is the thing he is trying to avoid.
posted by griphus at 5:21 PM on November 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
Of course you should talk to him. Both communication itself and having children are fundamental things to be compatible about. It sounds like you've communicated well so far, just take the plunge. If short-term pregnancy is his concern & he's not 100% secure w/your one method of BC, he can use condoms as a backup second method. Be ready to be OK w/his choice, or be ready to move on. Either are OK.
posted by headnsouth at 5:22 PM on November 19, 2013
posted by headnsouth at 5:22 PM on November 19, 2013
(There's also the question of the judgement of a dude who makes the decision toward a potentially-irreversible medical procedure so lightly that he will change his mind two months into a relationship.)
posted by griphus at 5:22 PM on November 19, 2013 [7 favorites]
posted by griphus at 5:22 PM on November 19, 2013 [7 favorites]
Wait, is he getting a vasectomy because he doesn't want more kids now, or in the future? His openness to a reversal suggests he intends this to serve as temporary birth control, which is not really what a vasectomy is for. I would assume that him going for a vasectomy meant that he would never want to have kids despite what he is telling you.
Regardless, this is not your body and not your decision. Especially after only 2 months.
posted by chainsofreedom at 5:23 PM on November 19, 2013 [8 favorites]
Regardless, this is not your body and not your decision. Especially after only 2 months.
posted by chainsofreedom at 5:23 PM on November 19, 2013 [8 favorites]
He probably has already thought about this for a while and made his decision, but it wouldn't be unreasonable, in the context of the discussions you've already been having, to ask him to put off the surgery and use a second form of birth control. It also wouldn't be unreasonable of him to go ahead with the surgery.
posted by domnit at 5:30 PM on November 19, 2013
posted by domnit at 5:30 PM on November 19, 2013
Maybe at least discuss and see if he's willing to delay for a few months.
posted by mono blanco at 5:32 PM on November 19, 2013
posted by mono blanco at 5:32 PM on November 19, 2013
If you want kids and he wants a vasectomy, you have not agreed on life goals.
He's doing a reasonable (and responsible) thing by taking control of his fertility the only way that biology/science have provided for men.
I think that it is unreasonable of you to try to stop him from doing what he wants with his own body.
posted by sparklemotion at 5:52 PM on November 19, 2013 [8 favorites]
He's doing a reasonable (and responsible) thing by taking control of his fertility the only way that biology/science have provided for men.
I think that it is unreasonable of you to try to stop him from doing what he wants with his own body.
posted by sparklemotion at 5:52 PM on November 19, 2013 [8 favorites]
We've only been together for two months, but we both agree we can see things going further. [...] I brought this up with him, and we talked about several alternatives. He's ok with adopting and I suppose I am too, but I still would like the option of having a biological kid.
I'm not clear if "we both agree we can see things going further" means "we see potential for getting serious" (in which case discussions of adopting, freezing sperm, etc. are theoretical) or "we are moving towards getting engaged and are beginning to think about what our life together will look like after that" (in which case discussions of adopting, freezing sperm, etc. are practical).
If it's the former and you are only discussing these options theoretically, I think it's inappropriate for you to try to dictate what he can do with his body and his fertility, exactly as it would be if you were planning on getting a tubal ligation and a guy you had been dating 2 months asked you not to. But if it's the latter and you are actually planning on getting married, then it is imperative for you both to be on the same page about this.
posted by scody at 6:06 PM on November 19, 2013 [4 favorites]
I'm not clear if "we both agree we can see things going further" means "we see potential for getting serious" (in which case discussions of adopting, freezing sperm, etc. are theoretical) or "we are moving towards getting engaged and are beginning to think about what our life together will look like after that" (in which case discussions of adopting, freezing sperm, etc. are practical).
If it's the former and you are only discussing these options theoretically, I think it's inappropriate for you to try to dictate what he can do with his body and his fertility, exactly as it would be if you were planning on getting a tubal ligation and a guy you had been dating 2 months asked you not to. But if it's the latter and you are actually planning on getting married, then it is imperative for you both to be on the same page about this.
posted by scody at 6:06 PM on November 19, 2013 [4 favorites]
After all, he is open to the idea of having more kids in the future if it's something I want
This is the opposite of a vasectomy. Having a vasectomy means wanting to be sterile forever.
Obviously you can tell him about your own desires w/r/t children in the future. You can't tell him what to do with his body. You CAN, however, take notice of the giant red flag flapping around.
I can't make that make sense unless he's telling you "oh yeah, baby, I'll reverse it, whatever you want" just to shut you up now and later he'll be all, "um, I made my decision 5 years ago". And that's gross.
posted by Lyn Never at 6:07 PM on November 19, 2013 [5 favorites]
This is the opposite of a vasectomy. Having a vasectomy means wanting to be sterile forever.
Obviously you can tell him about your own desires w/r/t children in the future. You can't tell him what to do with his body. You CAN, however, take notice of the giant red flag flapping around.
I can't make that make sense unless he's telling you "oh yeah, baby, I'll reverse it, whatever you want" just to shut you up now and later he'll be all, "um, I made my decision 5 years ago". And that's gross.
posted by Lyn Never at 6:07 PM on November 19, 2013 [5 favorites]
It sounds to me like he doesn't want more kids. Getting a vasectomy is pretty much the universal sign for NO MORE KIDS FOR ME PLS.
Is the idea that you asked him what he'd do if you wanted to have kids with him? And he's said something about how the procedure is reversible? Because that's… not a reliable plan.
It's not unreasonable for you to let him know that you think he's amazing and you're thinking about what your future together might be like; and that keeping open the option of being a mom is important to you; and that it worries you to continue building something serious with a man who doesn't really want that option open.
If he's talking about the vasectomy being reversible, maybe he means it… maybe he's not 100% closed on the subject of more children. And in that case maybe he'd be willing to use a different form of birth control. Maybe he was serious about it when he scheduled it; but you've changed his mind. Or maybe he's still quite serious about not having children and by entering into a long term relationship with him, you're cutting off that possibility for yourself. You should find out.
posted by fingersandtoes at 6:08 PM on November 19, 2013 [3 favorites]
Is the idea that you asked him what he'd do if you wanted to have kids with him? And he's said something about how the procedure is reversible? Because that's… not a reliable plan.
It's not unreasonable for you to let him know that you think he's amazing and you're thinking about what your future together might be like; and that keeping open the option of being a mom is important to you; and that it worries you to continue building something serious with a man who doesn't really want that option open.
If he's talking about the vasectomy being reversible, maybe he means it… maybe he's not 100% closed on the subject of more children. And in that case maybe he'd be willing to use a different form of birth control. Maybe he was serious about it when he scheduled it; but you've changed his mind. Or maybe he's still quite serious about not having children and by entering into a long term relationship with him, you're cutting off that possibility for yourself. You should find out.
posted by fingersandtoes at 6:08 PM on November 19, 2013 [3 favorites]
You've only been dating for two months and you've uncovered that you both have a major difference in life goals. If he's had a consult and also made his vasectomy appointment, he's definitely decided not to have any more biokids. People don't get vasectomies with a plan to reverse them later. Are you sure you're not trying to hear what you want to hear?
Regardless, after two months of dating, you don't have standing to weigh-in on this at all. He's telling you he already has the kids he wants. You should listen.
This may not be the right man for you.
posted by quince at 6:10 PM on November 19, 2013 [6 favorites]
Regardless, after two months of dating, you don't have standing to weigh-in on this at all. He's telling you he already has the kids he wants. You should listen.
This may not be the right man for you.
posted by quince at 6:10 PM on November 19, 2013 [6 favorites]
We've only been together for two months
Two months of dating is still LaLa Land where everything is wonderful and neither of you can do any wrong.
At the time you started dating, he had already made an appointment for a vasectomy consultation, so being sterile forever was an option he was seriously considering. According to your question, it appears that he has decided that he wants to have the vasectomy, which means he wants to be sterile forever starting next month.
Right now, he is a package deal of him plus two kids, no other kids included. (biological, adopted, or otherwise). If you think you can accept this package deal, you won't be wasting anyone's time if you stick around. Otherwise, you need to find someone else to date.
posted by Tanizaki at 6:20 PM on November 19, 2013 [7 favorites]
Two months of dating is still LaLa Land where everything is wonderful and neither of you can do any wrong.
At the time you started dating, he had already made an appointment for a vasectomy consultation, so being sterile forever was an option he was seriously considering. According to your question, it appears that he has decided that he wants to have the vasectomy, which means he wants to be sterile forever starting next month.
Right now, he is a package deal of him plus two kids, no other kids included. (biological, adopted, or otherwise). If you think you can accept this package deal, you won't be wasting anyone's time if you stick around. Otherwise, you need to find someone else to date.
posted by Tanizaki at 6:20 PM on November 19, 2013 [7 favorites]
I'm of the mind that he is 100% committed to not having any more children. This is the concrete information that you have. Make any decisions knowing that for him, no matter what, kids are off the table.
I don't know why he thinks reversal is a reasonable option, because a surgeon wouldn't perform the surgery if the man thought he might eventually reverse it. That's not what a vasectomy is.
I say, run away! Because this guy isn't in the same head space as you are and you'll just get in deeper and eventually grow unhappy.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:21 PM on November 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
I don't know why he thinks reversal is a reasonable option, because a surgeon wouldn't perform the surgery if the man thought he might eventually reverse it. That's not what a vasectomy is.
I say, run away! Because this guy isn't in the same head space as you are and you'll just get in deeper and eventually grow unhappy.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:21 PM on November 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
I would find this all so theoretical without having met his kids yet. You mention that one possibility is being content as a stepmom, but I think it would be impossible to know how that would suit you when the kids are just a concept right now.
I was also leaning on the side of not having kids when I met my partner, but once we got seriously involved, I realized that my stepdaughter was the only kid I needed to have, and it was the easiest decision in the world not to have a biological child because my family was complete as it was.
But it could have gone so many different ways - it's such an unknown. Who's to say that you won't meet his kids and then realize that you don't want to have kids with him once you see his parenting in action? What if you can't stand his kids, or don't feel affectionately toward them? Not meeting the kids seems like making a decision in a vacuum.
Not that I'm saying that you should go run and meet the kids now - but if it seems too early to meet them, it seems to early to get that much input in his decision.
posted by Neely O'Hara at 6:31 PM on November 19, 2013 [2 favorites]
I was also leaning on the side of not having kids when I met my partner, but once we got seriously involved, I realized that my stepdaughter was the only kid I needed to have, and it was the easiest decision in the world not to have a biological child because my family was complete as it was.
But it could have gone so many different ways - it's such an unknown. Who's to say that you won't meet his kids and then realize that you don't want to have kids with him once you see his parenting in action? What if you can't stand his kids, or don't feel affectionately toward them? Not meeting the kids seems like making a decision in a vacuum.
Not that I'm saying that you should go run and meet the kids now - but if it seems too early to meet them, it seems to early to get that much input in his decision.
posted by Neely O'Hara at 6:31 PM on November 19, 2013 [2 favorites]
Yeah, don't walk into this thing expecting him to change his mind; and if you haven't met the biological kids, you're not in a place in your relationship to be asking him to not have a vasectomy.
posted by heyjude at 6:42 PM on November 19, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by heyjude at 6:42 PM on November 19, 2013 [3 favorites]
Should I talk to him about delaying his procedure, being that I'm not sure that I will ever want kids?
Well, it's certainly worth bringing it up again, but you've already discussed the vasectomy and he didn't show any signs of wanting to delay it, or having any second thought about it, did he?
posted by The Underpants Monster at 7:29 PM on November 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
Well, it's certainly worth bringing it up again, but you've already discussed the vasectomy and he didn't show any signs of wanting to delay it, or having any second thought about it, did he?
posted by The Underpants Monster at 7:29 PM on November 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
I think the most you could do is, as mentioned above, ask him if he would be willing to freeze his sperm for a period of time. (You can pay storage fees.)
posted by 2soxy4mypuppet at 7:41 PM on November 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by 2soxy4mypuppet at 7:41 PM on November 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
I think it is a bit much to ask after two months, but I think it would be even worse if you let it fester and this became a sore point having not even talked about it. I think you are in a difficult spot either way, but the lesser of the two evils is to talk to him about it. I would start with the your not being sure about the no kids thing and adopting.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 8:01 PM on November 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by JohnnyGunn at 8:01 PM on November 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
Having a vasectomy is, to put it mildly, kind of a strange choice to make for someone open to the idea of having kids in the future -- you say you've agreed on life goals, something isn't making sense here. Either you don't actually agree on life goals or he doesn't understand what a vasectomy is for.
there are costs associated with storing it and if I wanted to become pregnant, there would be the cost of becoming inseminated.
You seem to be seeing this as the main downside of that option. A reversal will cost more, and adoption will cost a lot more. Then there's the cost of raising the kid on top of that.
I still would like the option of having a biological kid
He's not doing anything to stop you from having a biological kid. You can have a biological kid (if that's medically possible for you) no matter what his decision is on this.
It seems like you are suddenly confronting your own fertility here. Try imagining that on your first date he'd told you he just had a vasectomy -- would you still go out with him?
Also, you should find out about how verifying when it's safe to quit using other birth control works after a vasectomy.
posted by yohko at 8:20 PM on November 19, 2013 [4 favorites]
there are costs associated with storing it and if I wanted to become pregnant, there would be the cost of becoming inseminated.
You seem to be seeing this as the main downside of that option. A reversal will cost more, and adoption will cost a lot more. Then there's the cost of raising the kid on top of that.
I still would like the option of having a biological kid
He's not doing anything to stop you from having a biological kid. You can have a biological kid (if that's medically possible for you) no matter what his decision is on this.
It seems like you are suddenly confronting your own fertility here. Try imagining that on your first date he'd told you he just had a vasectomy -- would you still go out with him?
Also, you should find out about how verifying when it's safe to quit using other birth control works after a vasectomy.
posted by yohko at 8:20 PM on November 19, 2013 [4 favorites]
I think you need to be more realistic and possibly a little wary. You haven't even met his kids yet, you're super infatuated with him, and you should really take a step back.
You can be crazy about a guy at 2 months and he could seem crazy about you, but he could be a future faker.
I know coming out of a painful breakup and finally meeting someone new that you actually have exciting feelings for makes a person super duper hopeful and excited, but notice that this guy is not tabling his vasectomy plans for you yet. Yes, you can say you want to have kids with someone someday and that should cause him to think if he feels like he'd want that with you, or you could say it directly (why not? It might help you see through the infatuation and figure out if this guy is as invested/feeling the same way as you, and not the kind of guy that suddenly withdraw).
But tread carefully and protect yourself from pledging your first born to him during this infatuation stage. It's fun to pretend for future fakers, and there are a lot of them out there.
And I wouldn't go by what kind if dad he might be based on your imagination (fueled by his apparent doting). Reserve the judgment until you meet and get to know his kids.
Because people are great at talking a good game. Let reality play a part in your assessment of who this guy really is and give it a lot more time.
(And I totally feel the relief and happiness of finding a relationship that clicks after suffering through a long and painful breakup and the desire to just invest, but keep a close watch on your heart.)
posted by discopolo at 8:25 PM on November 19, 2013 [8 favorites]
You can be crazy about a guy at 2 months and he could seem crazy about you, but he could be a future faker.
I know coming out of a painful breakup and finally meeting someone new that you actually have exciting feelings for makes a person super duper hopeful and excited, but notice that this guy is not tabling his vasectomy plans for you yet. Yes, you can say you want to have kids with someone someday and that should cause him to think if he feels like he'd want that with you, or you could say it directly (why not? It might help you see through the infatuation and figure out if this guy is as invested/feeling the same way as you, and not the kind of guy that suddenly withdraw).
But tread carefully and protect yourself from pledging your first born to him during this infatuation stage. It's fun to pretend for future fakers, and there are a lot of them out there.
And I wouldn't go by what kind if dad he might be based on your imagination (fueled by his apparent doting). Reserve the judgment until you meet and get to know his kids.
Because people are great at talking a good game. Let reality play a part in your assessment of who this guy really is and give it a lot more time.
(And I totally feel the relief and happiness of finding a relationship that clicks after suffering through a long and painful breakup and the desire to just invest, but keep a close watch on your heart.)
posted by discopolo at 8:25 PM on November 19, 2013 [8 favorites]
No, it's his body. Having children (I imagine) is just as personal a choice for a man as it is for a woman. If he's ready to have a vasectomy, he's probably decided well and good that he does not want to have any more children.
If you think you might want children someday, it's not going to be with a man who's had a vasectomy. It's way too early into a relationship to be asking anybody to modify their own long-term plans about their body and their procreative choices.
If, after two months, a man asked me to make or change a decision like this (a hysterectomy, invasive birth control, or even to stop or start taking the Pill) I would be really pissed and end the nascent relationship.
posted by mibo at 8:34 PM on November 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
If you think you might want children someday, it's not going to be with a man who's had a vasectomy. It's way too early into a relationship to be asking anybody to modify their own long-term plans about their body and their procreative choices.
If, after two months, a man asked me to make or change a decision like this (a hysterectomy, invasive birth control, or even to stop or start taking the Pill) I would be really pissed and end the nascent relationship.
posted by mibo at 8:34 PM on November 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
After all, he is open to the idea of having more kids in the future if it's something I want
Yeah, he's saying this because he doesn't want to lose you just yet and wants to dismiss a heavier conversation at this point so the magic isn't ruined.
Nobody gets a vasectomy with a plan to reverse it later. He's misleading you/minimizing the concern so you won't bring it up again.
posted by discopolo at 8:37 PM on November 19, 2013 [12 favorites]
Yeah, he's saying this because he doesn't want to lose you just yet and wants to dismiss a heavier conversation at this point so the magic isn't ruined.
Nobody gets a vasectomy with a plan to reverse it later. He's misleading you/minimizing the concern so you won't bring it up again.
posted by discopolo at 8:37 PM on November 19, 2013 [12 favorites]
People don't get vasectomies with a plan to reverse them later. Are you sure you're not trying to hear what you want to hear?
Seconding this. My dad got a vasectomy shortly after he and my mom divorced. His second wife desperately wanted kids, so he got it reversed. Of the two procedures, he says the reversal hurt a hell of a lot more. Also... It didn't work. He had the vasectomy reversed and still was "shooting blanks." No way would he have ever done this on purpose, and he's said as much.
What would he do after you two presumably had kids? Get the reversal reversed? *No one* elects to have that much surgery on their genitals.
He's either leading you on, or you're filtering what you want to hear.
posted by sonika at 9:01 PM on November 19, 2013 [5 favorites]
Seconding this. My dad got a vasectomy shortly after he and my mom divorced. His second wife desperately wanted kids, so he got it reversed. Of the two procedures, he says the reversal hurt a hell of a lot more. Also... It didn't work. He had the vasectomy reversed and still was "shooting blanks." No way would he have ever done this on purpose, and he's said as much.
What would he do after you two presumably had kids? Get the reversal reversed? *No one* elects to have that much surgery on their genitals.
He's either leading you on, or you're filtering what you want to hear.
posted by sonika at 9:01 PM on November 19, 2013 [5 favorites]
I don't see anything wrong with asking him if he would be prepared to delay his vasectomy. Unusual at this point in a relationship perhaps, but as long as he's free to answer honestly, and that part is critical, then asking a question is not a terrible imposition.
I would provide enough context, as you have here, so that the question makes sense and be prepared for him to say no. You could perhaps offer some sort of incentive, such as promising to take care of contraception if that felt appropriate.
Guys I know who have had vasectomies have done it for varying reasons. Usually it's because they're unequivocally done fathering children, but I've known blokes who've done it with far less consideration too. Maybe he's one of those.
Agreeing with others that it seems unlikely he would want to change his mind, but you might as well find out for sure, given that it seems to be important to you. Much better than trying to get it reversed later.
posted by mewsic at 9:18 PM on November 19, 2013 [2 favorites]
I would provide enough context, as you have here, so that the question makes sense and be prepared for him to say no. You could perhaps offer some sort of incentive, such as promising to take care of contraception if that felt appropriate.
Guys I know who have had vasectomies have done it for varying reasons. Usually it's because they're unequivocally done fathering children, but I've known blokes who've done it with far less consideration too. Maybe he's one of those.
Agreeing with others that it seems unlikely he would want to change his mind, but you might as well find out for sure, given that it seems to be important to you. Much better than trying to get it reversed later.
posted by mewsic at 9:18 PM on November 19, 2013 [2 favorites]
i think you should talk to him about it.
the first step is to ask him: is he at all interested in having more children? if not, you have your final answer.
if he is open to having more children, does he acknowledge that it's not the type of thing that could be reversible? i mean, it is technically reversible, but probably won't work.
third, does he trust you enough that the birth control methods you use will be enough?
if you two are monogamous, he's open to having more kids, and he trusts you to use birth control, i don't see why he wouldn't be ok with postponing it.
posted by cupcake1337 at 9:44 PM on November 19, 2013 [2 favorites]
the first step is to ask him: is he at all interested in having more children? if not, you have your final answer.
if he is open to having more children, does he acknowledge that it's not the type of thing that could be reversible? i mean, it is technically reversible, but probably won't work.
third, does he trust you enough that the birth control methods you use will be enough?
if you two are monogamous, he's open to having more kids, and he trusts you to use birth control, i don't see why he wouldn't be ok with postponing it.
posted by cupcake1337 at 9:44 PM on November 19, 2013 [2 favorites]
Pretend like he already has had the vasectomy.
posted by oceanjesse at 9:57 PM on November 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by oceanjesse at 9:57 PM on November 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
Just fucking talk to him about it. No one in this thread has any clue what he thinks and you know what you want so have the talk now and be clear about it. He wants to get a vasectomy. You don't want him to. These are the facts as we know them. You have to talk to him now or forever hold your peace, so if I was interested in anything serious with him I would talk to him now.
I am a woman and I would not be offended if a new boyfriend wanted to discuss birth control options for my body or his. That is generally thought to be part of the decision a couple makes together. There's nothing wrong with wanting to be clear about his reasons.
I would say to him that you don't really see a vasectomy as a short-term birth control option, and that you're pretty open to having kids in the future, so you need to kind of know what his plans are and to stay with him, have more assurance of the possibility of future kids than you would with him chancing a vasectomy. If he's set on the vasectomy, then you have your answer.
The only other option is to basically accept him as if you met him after he got the vasectomy.
posted by stoneandstar at 10:32 PM on November 19, 2013 [6 favorites]
I am a woman and I would not be offended if a new boyfriend wanted to discuss birth control options for my body or his. That is generally thought to be part of the decision a couple makes together. There's nothing wrong with wanting to be clear about his reasons.
I would say to him that you don't really see a vasectomy as a short-term birth control option, and that you're pretty open to having kids in the future, so you need to kind of know what his plans are and to stay with him, have more assurance of the possibility of future kids than you would with him chancing a vasectomy. If he's set on the vasectomy, then you have your answer.
The only other option is to basically accept him as if you met him after he got the vasectomy.
posted by stoneandstar at 10:32 PM on November 19, 2013 [6 favorites]
Should I ask the man I'm seeing not to have a vasectomy?
After 2 months? No. That's remarkably presumptuous.
If you were seriously talking about marriage, or otherwise comingling your lives together in a serious fashion, then yes, you have the right to input on the situation. Even then, though, an individual has the right to get sterilised if they want to, irrespective of what their partner thinks. A person's body is their own to do with as they will.
2 months in, you're not really in a position to say where this relationship is headed. You're still in the honeymoon phase, which really isn't the right phase to be making decisions about one's reproductive health during. He already made this decision before he went into the honeymoon phase with you. I can't imagine that there are many people out there who, on a whim, decide that they're going to have elective surgery on their-self, especially something that can't be reversed and that will have a big impact on their life. I'd guess that he's spent some time thinking about how he doesn't want more children, and that any vacillating he's doing is because of the honeymoon period.
I'm sitting here thinking that someone deciding that someone else has to be available for making children is not OK. Especially if the other person has actually scheduled surgery to prevent that.
posted by Solomon at 2:24 AM on November 20, 2013
After 2 months? No. That's remarkably presumptuous.
If you were seriously talking about marriage, or otherwise comingling your lives together in a serious fashion, then yes, you have the right to input on the situation. Even then, though, an individual has the right to get sterilised if they want to, irrespective of what their partner thinks. A person's body is their own to do with as they will.
2 months in, you're not really in a position to say where this relationship is headed. You're still in the honeymoon phase, which really isn't the right phase to be making decisions about one's reproductive health during. He already made this decision before he went into the honeymoon phase with you. I can't imagine that there are many people out there who, on a whim, decide that they're going to have elective surgery on their-self, especially something that can't be reversed and that will have a big impact on their life. I'd guess that he's spent some time thinking about how he doesn't want more children, and that any vacillating he's doing is because of the honeymoon period.
I'm sitting here thinking that someone deciding that someone else has to be available for making children is not OK. Especially if the other person has actually scheduled surgery to prevent that.
posted by Solomon at 2:24 AM on November 20, 2013
He has two young children
OK, these are the two crucial facts about him: he has already had two children, and he has decided to get a vasectomy. There you go. You have to assume that's not going to change. All you can change is how you deal with this situation.
I don't subscribe to some of the more extreme comments in this thread about how "it's his body!" I mean, yes, of course it's his body and he gets the final say. But it's illogical to assume that you can't have any say if he has the final say. So I wouldn't agree with any absolute rule that partners can't discuss these kinds of plans with each other (even just two months into a relationship).
But in your case, you can clearly see the situation. Again, he has children, and he's decided to get a vasectomy. The only question for you is whether you want to date someone like that. Do you feel like, "Yay, I don't really want kids either, so we don't have to worry about that"? Or do you feel like, "Uh oh, this is going to make us incompatible down the road"? If it's the former, great, stay together. If it's the latter, that's a problem, and you might want to break up. There could hardly be a more decisively important issue than this when it comes to a relationship.
He's already made up his mind. Now you need to make up your mind.
posted by John Cohen at 3:19 AM on November 20, 2013
OK, these are the two crucial facts about him: he has already had two children, and he has decided to get a vasectomy. There you go. You have to assume that's not going to change. All you can change is how you deal with this situation.
I don't subscribe to some of the more extreme comments in this thread about how "it's his body!" I mean, yes, of course it's his body and he gets the final say. But it's illogical to assume that you can't have any say if he has the final say. So I wouldn't agree with any absolute rule that partners can't discuss these kinds of plans with each other (even just two months into a relationship).
But in your case, you can clearly see the situation. Again, he has children, and he's decided to get a vasectomy. The only question for you is whether you want to date someone like that. Do you feel like, "Yay, I don't really want kids either, so we don't have to worry about that"? Or do you feel like, "Uh oh, this is going to make us incompatible down the road"? If it's the former, great, stay together. If it's the latter, that's a problem, and you might want to break up. There could hardly be a more decisively important issue than this when it comes to a relationship.
He's already made up his mind. Now you need to make up your mind.
posted by John Cohen at 3:19 AM on November 20, 2013
I absolutely think you should ask him. Asking is not the same thing as "dictating". He's free to say no, for god's sake.
What if, three or six years from now, you and he are happily married and you desperately want to have a baby with him and he desperately wishes he could impregnate you? Aren't you going to be kicking yourself that you didn't speak up when you had the chance because the timing was awkward and you didn't want to be presumptuous?
Obviously, be prepared for the possibility that he will say no. At that point your job is to figure out if you want to be in a relationship with someone who will never be able to give you children.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 5:13 AM on November 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
What if, three or six years from now, you and he are happily married and you desperately want to have a baby with him and he desperately wishes he could impregnate you? Aren't you going to be kicking yourself that you didn't speak up when you had the chance because the timing was awkward and you didn't want to be presumptuous?
Obviously, be prepared for the possibility that he will say no. At that point your job is to figure out if you want to be in a relationship with someone who will never be able to give you children.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 5:13 AM on November 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
I had to come back and answer again, to address the "Should we talk about it" question. Of course you should talk about it. I am in your shoes in that I don't have kids, may want them later, but am leaning toward no. But I'm not sure. I posted very recently about a previous relationship of mine with a man who was dead set on not having kids, and how it bothered me that the topic was not even up for discussion. It felt like completely closing a door on my life.
The really weird part is that my current partner has HAD a vasectomy, about a year before we even met (his ex-wife wanted him to get one, they were married, so he went through with it). He explained the circumstances around it, and as I understand it, he is open to having kids someday via adoption or IVF or reversal.
HOWEVER. I went into this relationship knowing that the fact that he had a vasectomy meant that he was more than OK with the idea that he would NEVER have kids. I do not at all assume that one day we will have kids together. And that's ok with me. The difference is that I know that he and I can TALK about it and discuss it, and decide together if that is what we want. It was not a unilateral decision on his part. And in the meantime - no surprise pregnancies! Woohoo!
So, it comes down to . . . do you trust him? Do you trust that he is being truthful to you, and not just saying things you want to hear? None of us can answer that question since none of us know your guy. But if this is something that can be discussed and compromised on, if you can talk to him and feel secure in your mutual decisions, I say it's ok to keep going with him, whether he puts the vasectomy off for your sake or not.
Personally? I think if it was something that would be up for consideration or contemplation with your guy, he would have pushed back the surgery already. If it was something he was hesitant on, he wouldn't have scheduled surgery for people to cut into his genitals. He has decided. He is, like my guy, more than OK with the idea that he will not be having biological kids from here on out. I would find it really hard to trust assurances to the contrary after only knowing him for 2 months. But YMMV.
posted by chainsofreedom at 7:40 AM on November 20, 2013
The really weird part is that my current partner has HAD a vasectomy, about a year before we even met (his ex-wife wanted him to get one, they were married, so he went through with it). He explained the circumstances around it, and as I understand it, he is open to having kids someday via adoption or IVF or reversal.
HOWEVER. I went into this relationship knowing that the fact that he had a vasectomy meant that he was more than OK with the idea that he would NEVER have kids. I do not at all assume that one day we will have kids together. And that's ok with me. The difference is that I know that he and I can TALK about it and discuss it, and decide together if that is what we want. It was not a unilateral decision on his part. And in the meantime - no surprise pregnancies! Woohoo!
So, it comes down to . . . do you trust him? Do you trust that he is being truthful to you, and not just saying things you want to hear? None of us can answer that question since none of us know your guy. But if this is something that can be discussed and compromised on, if you can talk to him and feel secure in your mutual decisions, I say it's ok to keep going with him, whether he puts the vasectomy off for your sake or not.
Personally? I think if it was something that would be up for consideration or contemplation with your guy, he would have pushed back the surgery already. If it was something he was hesitant on, he wouldn't have scheduled surgery for people to cut into his genitals. He has decided. He is, like my guy, more than OK with the idea that he will not be having biological kids from here on out. I would find it really hard to trust assurances to the contrary after only knowing him for 2 months. But YMMV.
posted by chainsofreedom at 7:40 AM on November 20, 2013
Why does he want a vasectomy?
You really need to be able to answer that question. I'd imagine it's because he doesn't want to father any more children.
I tend to think, if you don't think you want kids, you're making a problem that doesn't exist yet. You're young and don't want to foreclose options, because no one ever does, but what I don't hear you saying is that you want kids. So why worry about this now? In the meantime, see how this relationship goes because you're only two months in and barely know each other yet.
posted by J. Wilson at 8:37 AM on November 20, 2013
You really need to be able to answer that question. I'd imagine it's because he doesn't want to father any more children.
I tend to think, if you don't think you want kids, you're making a problem that doesn't exist yet. You're young and don't want to foreclose options, because no one ever does, but what I don't hear you saying is that you want kids. So why worry about this now? In the meantime, see how this relationship goes because you're only two months in and barely know each other yet.
posted by J. Wilson at 8:37 AM on November 20, 2013
Yeah, two months is too soon to ask someone something like this. You should just go on like its a given that he will not have any more kids. Then see how the relationship develops. It may be a non issue since you say you don't think you want them anyway. If it turns out you do want kids and you are still with this man, well then you can explore options (and yes, some options may be off the table but that's life).
I do understand the uncertainty of not being 100 percent certain you don't want kids. If its any help at all, I didn't think I wanted kids either so I didn't have them. Best decision of my life! I'm in my forties and am now POSITIVE I did the right thing. Alot of the uncertainty comes from other people trying to tell you how you're going to feel in the future. "Oh but you'll change your mind! Whose going to take care of you when you're old?!" and all the rest of the crap that people who choose to live childfree have to put up with. Still, everyone is an individual and indeed you may feel differently later on down the line, but the key thing is, you'll deal with that hurdle when and if it comes along. There are no right or wrong answers in life. You just do the best you can with what you've got in the moment.
Good luck. I know it can be tough.
posted by WalkerWestridge at 10:16 AM on November 20, 2013 [2 favorites]
I do understand the uncertainty of not being 100 percent certain you don't want kids. If its any help at all, I didn't think I wanted kids either so I didn't have them. Best decision of my life! I'm in my forties and am now POSITIVE I did the right thing. Alot of the uncertainty comes from other people trying to tell you how you're going to feel in the future. "Oh but you'll change your mind! Whose going to take care of you when you're old?!" and all the rest of the crap that people who choose to live childfree have to put up with. Still, everyone is an individual and indeed you may feel differently later on down the line, but the key thing is, you'll deal with that hurdle when and if it comes along. There are no right or wrong answers in life. You just do the best you can with what you've got in the moment.
Good luck. I know it can be tough.
posted by WalkerWestridge at 10:16 AM on November 20, 2013 [2 favorites]
Why not simply ask him to bank some sperm? Easy. He gets to move forward with his plans for vasectomy, which he has obviously considered carefully, and he still gets to retain control of his conceptive power while also enjoying (for however long he decides) a peace-of-mind in regards to his ability to prevent unplanned pregnancy.
You get a minor insurance policy, in case the relationship moves forward and becomes one you both feel would benefit from having a family.
posted by cior at 10:36 AM on November 20, 2013
You get a minor insurance policy, in case the relationship moves forward and becomes one you both feel would benefit from having a family.
posted by cior at 10:36 AM on November 20, 2013
I think there is nothing wrong with having a discussion about this. Obviously you can't order him not to have a vasectomy, steal his car keys so he can't get to the doctor, etc. -- but I see no indication from your post that you're even considering these things, so I'm not sure why so many posters seem to think you're trying to 'dictate' his reproductive choices. I would look at it as an open conversation where you can understand his reasons for the vasectomy better, talk about options down the road, etc. and possibly end up with him delaying it but possibly not - but in any case you could both have a better idea of where each other is with the issue of kids. Because you guys are a couple, of course this is relevant to discussing your future together -- and, I would point out, obviously he also considers it relevant for you to know, or he would have just gone and gotten the procedure without mentioning it to you (at two months, it is perfectly normal to NOT discuss medical stuff if one doesn't have a desire to do so). Yes, two months is pretty early for this discussion...but, if not now, when?
posted by rainbowbrite at 10:39 AM on November 20, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by rainbowbrite at 10:39 AM on November 20, 2013 [2 favorites]
two months is too soon to be having the conversation of "don't get a vasectomy please" but not too soon to have the conversation of "i see you don't want to father any more biological children and i'd like to one day have biological children - are you & i compatible in the long term? let's talk about it."
if i was seeing someone for 2 months and he or she asked me to change my mind about a serious, life-changing fertility control decision i had made (or even asked me to go on the pill, which i can't do), well, that would be a dealbreaker for me.
posted by zdravo at 4:54 AM on November 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
if i was seeing someone for 2 months and he or she asked me to change my mind about a serious, life-changing fertility control decision i had made (or even asked me to go on the pill, which i can't do), well, that would be a dealbreaker for me.
posted by zdravo at 4:54 AM on November 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
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There are a lot of good means of contraception other than a vasectomy.
If you're seriously talking marriage, it's not a unreasonable subject to discuss, IMO.
posted by randomkeystrike at 5:20 PM on November 19, 2013 [1 favorite]