School us on the Twin Cities School Systems
November 13, 2013 7:20 AM Subscribe
We just moved to the Twin Cities (Keewaydin in south Minneapolis to be exact) and are starting to explore potential neighborhoods for our first home purchase next fall. We're interesting in your experiences with either having your children schooled in Minneapolis or St. Paul proper or being schooled yourself in either of the Twin Cities school systems.
Additional background - we (me: 35, she: 30, no current children but planning for 2015) both had pretty dreadful experiences with our respective public school systems and don't want to subject our future child(ren) to those same issues. Not currently having children or having any friends here with children in either the MPLS or St. Paul school systems we're having a difficult time determining school quality and education success (GreatSchools.org scores notwithstanding). Obviously the Lake Harriet school zone would be ideal but our max as first-time home buyers is $400,000.
We've read good things about Burroughs as well but we'd really like to hear from parents that either have (or will have) kids in schools in Minneapolis or St. Paul proper or that went to those schools. We're not opposed to considering St. Louis Park or Edina for school quality, but we'd prefer to stay in Minneapolis or St. Paul if at all possible. While we're really concerned mostly with elementary and middle schools right now (since we may only be in said house for 10 years), we'd love to hear your experiences with the public and magnet high schools or private high schools as well.
In case this is relevant to your answers - I have learning disabilities (dyslexia, ADD) that weren't diagnosed until my mid-20s. Obviously our future children may or may not also have these but, if they do, we'd like for them to be in a school that can identify and structure their education to account for these should they be present.
Additional background - we (me: 35, she: 30, no current children but planning for 2015) both had pretty dreadful experiences with our respective public school systems and don't want to subject our future child(ren) to those same issues. Not currently having children or having any friends here with children in either the MPLS or St. Paul school systems we're having a difficult time determining school quality and education success (GreatSchools.org scores notwithstanding). Obviously the Lake Harriet school zone would be ideal but our max as first-time home buyers is $400,000.
We've read good things about Burroughs as well but we'd really like to hear from parents that either have (or will have) kids in schools in Minneapolis or St. Paul proper or that went to those schools. We're not opposed to considering St. Louis Park or Edina for school quality, but we'd prefer to stay in Minneapolis or St. Paul if at all possible. While we're really concerned mostly with elementary and middle schools right now (since we may only be in said house for 10 years), we'd love to hear your experiences with the public and magnet high schools or private high schools as well.
In case this is relevant to your answers - I have learning disabilities (dyslexia, ADD) that weren't diagnosed until my mid-20s. Obviously our future children may or may not also have these but, if they do, we'd like for them to be in a school that can identify and structure their education to account for these should they be present.
If you can afford it, I wholeheartedly recommend the Catholic schools in Saint Paul, even if you are not Catholic. My classmates included several non-Catholics and there was no religious pressure or mandatory in-class inculcation, and the quality of the teachers and outcome was vastly superior to what the public schools at the time were achieving. Nativity of Our Lord and Cretin-Derham Hall, fwiw. Having attended college at the U of M with a very diverse and large student body it was plain I was one of the best-prepared students there from a literacy and STEM standpoint, and not just because I took AP English in HS.
posted by BigLankyBastard at 8:09 AM on November 13, 2013
posted by BigLankyBastard at 8:09 AM on November 13, 2013
I have been researching this, and in fact I was thinking about asking the same question. It would have come out almost identically. I went to awful urban public schools in a different city so it is something I'd want to avoid for my own kids.
Among the people I hang out with (highly educated engineering/science/business-y types), the urban districts have a pretty terrible reputation -- for example, not a single one of my software industry colleagues sends their kids to those districts. But I also know that it is easy to mistake a poor school for one with bad educational outcomes so it's hard to be certain.
Open Enrollment in suburban schools is an option. There is a lottery to get in, and the odds are low (10-20% ish for many districts). But if you apply every year from kindergarten on, and apply to several different good districts, it seems to me you're likely to get it at some point -- and after that siblings get in for free.
There are also some excellent charter schools. Again, the lottery odds are steep, but you can apply many times so it seems likely you'd get in eventually.
posted by miyabo at 8:22 AM on November 13, 2013
Among the people I hang out with (highly educated engineering/science/business-y types), the urban districts have a pretty terrible reputation -- for example, not a single one of my software industry colleagues sends their kids to those districts. But I also know that it is easy to mistake a poor school for one with bad educational outcomes so it's hard to be certain.
Open Enrollment in suburban schools is an option. There is a lottery to get in, and the odds are low (10-20% ish for many districts). But if you apply every year from kindergarten on, and apply to several different good districts, it seems to me you're likely to get it at some point -- and after that siblings get in for free.
There are also some excellent charter schools. Again, the lottery odds are steep, but you can apply many times so it seems likely you'd get in eventually.
posted by miyabo at 8:22 AM on November 13, 2013
Data point:
I went to Fulton Elementary (now Lake Harriet), even though I did not live in the district. Back then they were bussing kids all over the place. I think they've stopped that. Other good elementary schools in MPLS I can vouch for are: Burroughs and Barton. After we graduated Elementary, my parents didn't like the options for public Middle and High schools in MPLS, and moved us to Edina. I wasn't happy with the decision at the time, but looking back now, I think this is a smart move if you can afford to move to Edina. Edina High School is a very impressive school both academically, and for the extra-curricular programs. We were right on the border of Edina, near the 50th and France area, so we could always catch the #6 bus to get to uptown/downtown MPLS, which was very convenient.
posted by 2ghouls at 8:25 AM on November 13, 2013
I went to Fulton Elementary (now Lake Harriet), even though I did not live in the district. Back then they were bussing kids all over the place. I think they've stopped that. Other good elementary schools in MPLS I can vouch for are: Burroughs and Barton. After we graduated Elementary, my parents didn't like the options for public Middle and High schools in MPLS, and moved us to Edina. I wasn't happy with the decision at the time, but looking back now, I think this is a smart move if you can afford to move to Edina. Edina High School is a very impressive school both academically, and for the extra-curricular programs. We were right on the border of Edina, near the 50th and France area, so we could always catch the #6 bus to get to uptown/downtown MPLS, which was very convenient.
posted by 2ghouls at 8:25 AM on November 13, 2013
One of my best friend's kids go to Burroughs and they love it. Can also speak to very positive experiences close friends have had with Barton, the Harriets, Seward Montessori and Marcy Open. A couple of those are K-8 which is desirable for the continuity and the not-having-to-stress-about-middle-school factor.
I live in the Kenwood Elementary district (not in the Kenwood neighborhood though) and Susan B. Anthony Middle school (the kids will go to Southwest for HS) and we're pretty happy so far, in fact I'd go so far as to say delighted with Kenwood (which, by the way, includes part of downtown in its enrollment area, thank goodness for socioeconomic diversity's sake).
In Minneapolis, you can be more or less automatically accepted into your neighborhood school, but you can apply for admission to other schools on a space-A basis (you'll provide your own transport though), and the schools designated as "open" are lottery based enrollment.
It's worth downloading the district map from the MPS website and doing a little ranked-choice of which neighborhoods are most right for you.
posted by padraigin at 9:08 AM on November 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
I live in the Kenwood Elementary district (not in the Kenwood neighborhood though) and Susan B. Anthony Middle school (the kids will go to Southwest for HS) and we're pretty happy so far, in fact I'd go so far as to say delighted with Kenwood (which, by the way, includes part of downtown in its enrollment area, thank goodness for socioeconomic diversity's sake).
In Minneapolis, you can be more or less automatically accepted into your neighborhood school, but you can apply for admission to other schools on a space-A basis (you'll provide your own transport though), and the schools designated as "open" are lottery based enrollment.
It's worth downloading the district map from the MPS website and doing a little ranked-choice of which neighborhoods are most right for you.
posted by padraigin at 9:08 AM on November 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
My daughter is not in school yet, but we participate in several ECFE classes and Early Intervention in Minneapolis, and I am beyond impressed with everything I have seen. Everyone I have met is passionate and engaged with what they are doing, and they really care about kids. The facilities we go to are older but well-maintained and much cleaner than I remember my public schools being as a kid.
We will probably stick with our local schools (Northeast) when the time comes, especially for elementary. I have heard really good things about Edina, especially regarding later start times for high school students, but have no direct experience with them.
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 9:16 AM on November 13, 2013
We will probably stick with our local schools (Northeast) when the time comes, especially for elementary. I have heard really good things about Edina, especially regarding later start times for high school students, but have no direct experience with them.
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 9:16 AM on November 13, 2013
St. Paul has a ton of magnet options, but in the last year or two they reorganized into zones in which only certain neighborhoods can get busing to certain magnets, so if you set your heart on one, make sure you buy in one of its neighborhoods or be prepared to drive. A few still have district-wide busing (Capitol Hill gifted, L'Etoile du Nord French immersion) but most do not.
For Minneapolis, I have heard excellent things about St. Anthony, but the actual district is tiny and I don't know how much open enrollment they allow.
Minnesota does have statewide open enrollment, not just within districts, so you can essentially choose any school in the state if they have room in your child's grade and you provide transportation. Mahtomedi for instance (super yuppie district NE of St. Paul) is 31% out-of-district kids, but each district will vary.
posted by Flannery Culp at 9:48 AM on November 13, 2013
For Minneapolis, I have heard excellent things about St. Anthony, but the actual district is tiny and I don't know how much open enrollment they allow.
Minnesota does have statewide open enrollment, not just within districts, so you can essentially choose any school in the state if they have room in your child's grade and you provide transportation. Mahtomedi for instance (super yuppie district NE of St. Paul) is 31% out-of-district kids, but each district will vary.
posted by Flannery Culp at 9:48 AM on November 13, 2013
Best answer: I should probably predicate this by saying that my wife and I are both products of what we consider high quality public educations through MN public schools and have multiple family members in the public education system in MN so I am biased.
My direct experience as a parent is that Minneapolis' elementary public school system is excellent with good overall quality and many standout schools, with high quality schools characterized by high quality, dedicated, motivated staff and teachers and high parental involvement available to anyone who lives in a basically nice neighborhood. $400,000 will buy you quite a lot of house in various nice neighborhoods in Minneapolis. My advice would be to look for the house and neighborhood that is right for you and you will find plenty of good options for public education.
I heard plenty of the "urban districts have a pretty terrible reputation" feedback (pretty much from parents who did not yet have school-age kids or were pre-emptively keeping their kids out of the public schools) that miyabo mentions above as I considered the options for our child. Confusingly I also had many friends who had children happily excelling in the public system. My conclusion is that judging schools based mostly on test scores is unjustified. I'm going to bite my tongue before I go off on a tirade about why that is. Do your own research, come to your own conclusions. But it's worth questioning those hyper-simplified greatschools.org 10-point scale scores. You aren't choosing a restaurant to try out the Pho next Wednesday, you know?
When the time comes my advice is to take advantage of the many tools the school system provides to parents. School choice fairs are held annually. You can certainly go browse there long before the decision is imminent. Check out the online school choice research tools. Absolutely take advantage of the Early Childhood Screening at age 3. Check out the options for ECFE mentioned above - it's a good chance to get a look inside actual schools with a low commitment factor. We put our kid into High-5 which was great as well (if you can swing the half-day thing) - we didn't qualify for priority economically but had no problem getting a place.
All the schools have open houses. Schools have active parent groups and committees you can connect to. Where I really built my confidence was in school visits, talking to teachers and staff, and talking to parents.
One thing I'll note: resources in the public system (open enrollment options, full day kindergarten, special programs) can fill up fast. I've found it really pays to pro-actively figure out the schedules on the things and be on-the-spot, requesting specifics you want as soon as you possibly can. When we've done this I've always gotten what I wanted.
There are a lot of options and not just the core public system. There are some pretty stand-out private and charter options here. Things can also change a lot over 5+ years here. I really think trying to anticipate this decision in your home choice right now is worth questioning.
I don't like to stick a lot of personally identifying info right in here but feel free to contact me directly if you want more specific input.
posted by nanojath at 10:28 AM on November 13, 2013 [8 favorites]
My direct experience as a parent is that Minneapolis' elementary public school system is excellent with good overall quality and many standout schools, with high quality schools characterized by high quality, dedicated, motivated staff and teachers and high parental involvement available to anyone who lives in a basically nice neighborhood. $400,000 will buy you quite a lot of house in various nice neighborhoods in Minneapolis. My advice would be to look for the house and neighborhood that is right for you and you will find plenty of good options for public education.
I heard plenty of the "urban districts have a pretty terrible reputation" feedback (pretty much from parents who did not yet have school-age kids or were pre-emptively keeping their kids out of the public schools) that miyabo mentions above as I considered the options for our child. Confusingly I also had many friends who had children happily excelling in the public system. My conclusion is that judging schools based mostly on test scores is unjustified. I'm going to bite my tongue before I go off on a tirade about why that is. Do your own research, come to your own conclusions. But it's worth questioning those hyper-simplified greatschools.org 10-point scale scores. You aren't choosing a restaurant to try out the Pho next Wednesday, you know?
When the time comes my advice is to take advantage of the many tools the school system provides to parents. School choice fairs are held annually. You can certainly go browse there long before the decision is imminent. Check out the online school choice research tools. Absolutely take advantage of the Early Childhood Screening at age 3. Check out the options for ECFE mentioned above - it's a good chance to get a look inside actual schools with a low commitment factor. We put our kid into High-5 which was great as well (if you can swing the half-day thing) - we didn't qualify for priority economically but had no problem getting a place.
All the schools have open houses. Schools have active parent groups and committees you can connect to. Where I really built my confidence was in school visits, talking to teachers and staff, and talking to parents.
One thing I'll note: resources in the public system (open enrollment options, full day kindergarten, special programs) can fill up fast. I've found it really pays to pro-actively figure out the schedules on the things and be on-the-spot, requesting specifics you want as soon as you possibly can. When we've done this I've always gotten what I wanted.
There are a lot of options and not just the core public system. There are some pretty stand-out private and charter options here. Things can also change a lot over 5+ years here. I really think trying to anticipate this decision in your home choice right now is worth questioning.
I don't like to stick a lot of personally identifying info right in here but feel free to contact me directly if you want more specific input.
posted by nanojath at 10:28 AM on November 13, 2013 [8 favorites]
My mom taught at an elementary school in MPS for 40 years, and my dad was a principal at an elementary school in MPS for 30 years (not the same school!!). My sister now works at an elementary school in MPS. All of us kids went to Burroughs - and now the second generation of little Vortexes are attending. My parents/sisters social circle is made up of mainly principals and other staff at MPS. So yeah, let's talk about elementary schools in MPS!!
My niece went to Burroughs until she moved on to middle school last year. She comes in from the 'burbs to attend. My folks pulled a couple of strings so that she could do so (although they're both retired, they've got a bit of clout with the Powers That Be).
Burroughs is a great school. I'm so jealous of her getting to attend the "new Burroughs" - the old building was torn down about a decade ago. The school gets a lot of support from the community/parents: VERY strong parent involvement - my dad says its the best of any school he's seen in the Cities. The teachers are excellent. My dad said that when we were students, he would pull strings to make sure that us kids got the "good" teachers. Now, with my niece, they didn't have to do that. All of the teachers are the "good ones".
I also asked about achievement stats - they're some of the best in the Cities. Here is a link to their Community Report, which includes statistics. Please forgive their egregious use of Comic Sans.
And their website: http://burroughs.mpls.k12.mn.us/
If your kids are at all interested in physical activity, Burroughs is excellent. The kids get to bike around Lake Harriet, they get to kayak on Harriet, they snowshoe and go sledding at the local parks. There are family events like family fun runs. There's a community center right next door (LARC) where they have afterschool activities like team sports, etc. The music program at Burroughs is a partnership with the Mount Olivet School of Music - the church across the street. It's an afterschool thing but I've heard good things about it.
Only quibble about Burroughs: not a lot of diversity. My niece is biracial and was one of few kids of color in her class.
Anyway, for the most part, yay Burroughs. If you have specific questions, I can absolutely call my folks and get back to you. They love nothing more than giving advice about elementary schools.
PS: I have no positive memories of Junior High (Anthony) or High School (Washburn) to share. I think it had less to do with the schools and more to do with the nightmare of adolescence. My niece is now at Ramsey and I've heard "so far, so good".
posted by Elly Vortex at 11:27 AM on November 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
My niece went to Burroughs until she moved on to middle school last year. She comes in from the 'burbs to attend. My folks pulled a couple of strings so that she could do so (although they're both retired, they've got a bit of clout with the Powers That Be).
Burroughs is a great school. I'm so jealous of her getting to attend the "new Burroughs" - the old building was torn down about a decade ago. The school gets a lot of support from the community/parents: VERY strong parent involvement - my dad says its the best of any school he's seen in the Cities. The teachers are excellent. My dad said that when we were students, he would pull strings to make sure that us kids got the "good" teachers. Now, with my niece, they didn't have to do that. All of the teachers are the "good ones".
I also asked about achievement stats - they're some of the best in the Cities. Here is a link to their Community Report, which includes statistics. Please forgive their egregious use of Comic Sans.
And their website: http://burroughs.mpls.k12.mn.us/
If your kids are at all interested in physical activity, Burroughs is excellent. The kids get to bike around Lake Harriet, they get to kayak on Harriet, they snowshoe and go sledding at the local parks. There are family events like family fun runs. There's a community center right next door (LARC) where they have afterschool activities like team sports, etc. The music program at Burroughs is a partnership with the Mount Olivet School of Music - the church across the street. It's an afterschool thing but I've heard good things about it.
Only quibble about Burroughs: not a lot of diversity. My niece is biracial and was one of few kids of color in her class.
Anyway, for the most part, yay Burroughs. If you have specific questions, I can absolutely call my folks and get back to you. They love nothing more than giving advice about elementary schools.
PS: I have no positive memories of Junior High (Anthony) or High School (Washburn) to share. I think it had less to do with the schools and more to do with the nightmare of adolescence. My niece is now at Ramsey and I've heard "so far, so good".
posted by Elly Vortex at 11:27 AM on November 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
While $400,000 could buy you a palace in many Minneapolis neighborhoods, there are lots of lovely houses well under $400,000 in SW Minneapolis (we bought one such house last year, though the prices have jumped up lately). In fact, if you bought a cute little house in Fulton or Linden Hills and did not knock it down to build a gigantic monster house, your neighbors would love you forever.
I'm the product of yuppie suburban Twin Cities public education but could not do a lot of the extra-curriculars I wanted due to transportation issues (i.e. no public transporation in the 'burbs + working parents who could not chauffeur me around). So location and public transportation accessibility were more important to me when buying a house than school test scores. Thus far the biggest negatives I've heard about Lake Harriet schools are the lack of racial and socioeconomic diversity (it is less diverse than a lot of Edina and St Louis Park elementary schools) and over-crowding. There is a lot of school building shuffling going on in Minneapolis right now due to enrollment increases, so your neighborhood school may change grades/locations before your kid is in kindergarten.
One awesome thing that I hope is still funded in 15 years is PSEO (post-secondary enrollment options). High school kids can take college classes for free at pretty much any MN college. I really wish I had done this instead of the AP classes at my high school. My brother took a bunch of community college classes his senior year and was able to finish college in 3 years, which saved him a bunch of money. So bus route (or light rail!) accessibility to the U of M might be something to consider long-term.
posted by Maarika at 11:30 AM on November 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
I'm the product of yuppie suburban Twin Cities public education but could not do a lot of the extra-curriculars I wanted due to transportation issues (i.e. no public transporation in the 'burbs + working parents who could not chauffeur me around). So location and public transportation accessibility were more important to me when buying a house than school test scores. Thus far the biggest negatives I've heard about Lake Harriet schools are the lack of racial and socioeconomic diversity (it is less diverse than a lot of Edina and St Louis Park elementary schools) and over-crowding. There is a lot of school building shuffling going on in Minneapolis right now due to enrollment increases, so your neighborhood school may change grades/locations before your kid is in kindergarten.
One awesome thing that I hope is still funded in 15 years is PSEO (post-secondary enrollment options). High school kids can take college classes for free at pretty much any MN college. I really wish I had done this instead of the AP classes at my high school. My brother took a bunch of community college classes his senior year and was able to finish college in 3 years, which saved him a bunch of money. So bus route (or light rail!) accessibility to the U of M might be something to consider long-term.
posted by Maarika at 11:30 AM on November 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I have a child in a Minneapolis public school. He's doing very well and actually is excelling. I can no more tell you if this is his natural talent or that the school and teacher is leading him to success at this early point in time, but I will say this - while we have not been impressed with his school and teachers, and we have not been disappointed with his school and teachers. It's all just, there, doing the job it's supposed to without much fanfare. But my son is testing through the roof so there really must be some correlation, no?
My wife is a teacher in a very well respected suburban school district and we tried to open enroll my son in her school, as obviously this would be a good school and my wife could schlep him to and from school without much need for before and after school care. We also looked at open enrolling my son at Dowling Elementary, which is the-go-to-school in south Minneapolis. Get yourself on this list, when the time comes.
We had no luck open enrolling. My wife's district was at 100% of capacity within its own boundaries, and to open enroll at Dowling you have to wait until they place all the siblings, then place certain special needs and diversity placements, then it's open to the rest of the community. There couldn't be but 30-45 open spaces after siblings and placements each year for, so don't hold your breath for open enrollment at Dowling or the better schools in Minneapolis.
What are the better schools? The MPD website has a tonne of information, go searching for School Report Cards. And since you don't have kids now, pay particular attention to the Shift five year improvement plan as this does directly impact your Keewaydin area. That being said, your little slice of SMPLS has a perfectly appropriate neighborhood school, Wenonah and Keeywaydin. My wife and I toured Wenonah and we felt its 50s/60s style was too cramped, but this was in comparison to some of the other more soaring, older neighborhood schools closer to our home west of Keeywadin
One anecdote - my wife's class is more economically (and actually racially) diverse in Wealthy Western School District than my son's urban Minneapolis class. I believe what this is saying is as such, as un-PC as it may sound: more and more young people are committing to the city as a lifestyle and family choice, instead of packing bags for the 'burbs when expecting kids. When those familes used to move to the 'burbs, it only left those families that couldn't afford to move, and maybe those families that couldn't afford to move also couldn't afford to support their kids and schools as completely as they'd like. Today, south Minneapolis neighborhoods are choke full of kids and families, included two new kids on our block just last week. This was not what South Minneapolis was like 10-15+ years ago, I've been told, though YMMV based on specific location. This new demographic and the inevitable capturing of these more traditionally wealthy and engaged families only bodes well for the Minneapolis School District. Positive change itself may manifest slowly (see this article about the under-performing MPS Superintendent) but as surely as it gets cold in Minnesota, change is coming.
All things considered, I believe we are committed to staying in Minneapolis up through 8th grade or so, which is still seven years away. As of 2013 we would not look to keep our boys in Minneapolis public high schools unless we moved into a new neighborhood, but certainly things can change.
posted by lstanley at 11:59 AM on November 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
My wife is a teacher in a very well respected suburban school district and we tried to open enroll my son in her school, as obviously this would be a good school and my wife could schlep him to and from school without much need for before and after school care. We also looked at open enrolling my son at Dowling Elementary, which is the-go-to-school in south Minneapolis. Get yourself on this list, when the time comes.
We had no luck open enrolling. My wife's district was at 100% of capacity within its own boundaries, and to open enroll at Dowling you have to wait until they place all the siblings, then place certain special needs and diversity placements, then it's open to the rest of the community. There couldn't be but 30-45 open spaces after siblings and placements each year for, so don't hold your breath for open enrollment at Dowling or the better schools in Minneapolis.
What are the better schools? The MPD website has a tonne of information, go searching for School Report Cards. And since you don't have kids now, pay particular attention to the Shift five year improvement plan as this does directly impact your Keewaydin area. That being said, your little slice of SMPLS has a perfectly appropriate neighborhood school, Wenonah and Keeywaydin. My wife and I toured Wenonah and we felt its 50s/60s style was too cramped, but this was in comparison to some of the other more soaring, older neighborhood schools closer to our home west of Keeywadin
One anecdote - my wife's class is more economically (and actually racially) diverse in Wealthy Western School District than my son's urban Minneapolis class. I believe what this is saying is as such, as un-PC as it may sound: more and more young people are committing to the city as a lifestyle and family choice, instead of packing bags for the 'burbs when expecting kids. When those familes used to move to the 'burbs, it only left those families that couldn't afford to move, and maybe those families that couldn't afford to move also couldn't afford to support their kids and schools as completely as they'd like. Today, south Minneapolis neighborhoods are choke full of kids and families, included two new kids on our block just last week. This was not what South Minneapolis was like 10-15+ years ago, I've been told, though YMMV based on specific location. This new demographic and the inevitable capturing of these more traditionally wealthy and engaged families only bodes well for the Minneapolis School District. Positive change itself may manifest slowly (see this article about the under-performing MPS Superintendent) but as surely as it gets cold in Minnesota, change is coming.
All things considered, I believe we are committed to staying in Minneapolis up through 8th grade or so, which is still seven years away. As of 2013 we would not look to keep our boys in Minneapolis public high schools unless we moved into a new neighborhood, but certainly things can change.
posted by lstanley at 11:59 AM on November 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I went to the Minneapolis schools all the way through 12th grade and now my own kids are attending elementary school at Hale. My take on the MPS system is that if you live in the right neighborhood or make an effort to bid into one of the optional schools you can get a good education, particularly in the lower grades. The kids don't have great outcomes at the schools located in the poorer neighborhoods. That's been true as long as I remember. Everyone knows it is a problem, but it hasn't gotten better. The central school bureaucracy has always been something of a nightmare, but there are lots of great teachers in the system and some great schools.
The basic system in Minneapolis is that you are almost guaranteed a slot in your neighborhood school and also have the option to bid for one of the optional schools like Montessori, Open School, or Spanish language immersion.
When looking at specific neighborhoods, you should consider Hale. The test scores at Hale typically put the school in top 2-3 elementary schools in the City and well above the state averages (for some comparison, the most recent math scores seem to be higher than at Burroughs and reading scores slightly lower). More importantly, the teachers are doing great work in the classrooms. We have a super-active PTA, experienced teachers, retired teachers who volunteer as tutors (that's how committed many of the Hale teachers are, they keep coming back even when they aren't paid), and lots of parents volunteering. We also have some neighborhoods that aren't too expensive. Houses on my block sell for less than $300,000. I have friends who live west of 35W and are pissed that they pay more in property taxes and have a worse neighborhood school.
My personal experience was the Minneapolis schools were great until High School. Like Elly Vortex, I went to Washburn which was horrible. (Elly, we may have overlapped.) People in the neighborhood keep telling me that the school is getting better.
I can't tell you anything about the St. Paul schools. Like all good Minneapolitans, I know nothing about what goes on over there.
posted by Area Man at 2:54 PM on November 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
The basic system in Minneapolis is that you are almost guaranteed a slot in your neighborhood school and also have the option to bid for one of the optional schools like Montessori, Open School, or Spanish language immersion.
When looking at specific neighborhoods, you should consider Hale. The test scores at Hale typically put the school in top 2-3 elementary schools in the City and well above the state averages (for some comparison, the most recent math scores seem to be higher than at Burroughs and reading scores slightly lower). More importantly, the teachers are doing great work in the classrooms. We have a super-active PTA, experienced teachers, retired teachers who volunteer as tutors (that's how committed many of the Hale teachers are, they keep coming back even when they aren't paid), and lots of parents volunteering. We also have some neighborhoods that aren't too expensive. Houses on my block sell for less than $300,000. I have friends who live west of 35W and are pissed that they pay more in property taxes and have a worse neighborhood school.
My personal experience was the Minneapolis schools were great until High School. Like Elly Vortex, I went to Washburn which was horrible. (Elly, we may have overlapped.) People in the neighborhood keep telling me that the school is getting better.
I can't tell you anything about the St. Paul schools. Like all good Minneapolitans, I know nothing about what goes on over there.
posted by Area Man at 2:54 PM on November 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
A member of my daughters' mixed-age Girl Scout troop is a junior at Washburn and she actually really loves it, which is great news to the troop mothers whose kids are headed there in the next few years. I think rumors of its improvement may be true.
posted by padraigin at 7:12 PM on November 13, 2013
posted by padraigin at 7:12 PM on November 13, 2013
We love Groveland Elementary in St. Paul. Happy to share more over memail.
posted by lakeroon at 7:28 PM on November 13, 2013
posted by lakeroon at 7:28 PM on November 13, 2013
Response by poster: Lots of really good information for us to take into consideration as we ramp up our home search. We'll definitely be memailing some of you for additional information.
Area Man - we didn't want to tip our hand but Hale is the school we were most interested in for the reasons you listed. We like our neighborhood in Keewaydin but the housing stock here is a little too small for us since I'll be working from home for the next five to six years and need a dedicated office. From riding around that area on my bike last week the part closest to Lake Nokomis seems pretty much ideal for us but we didn't know anything about Hale elementary outside of the GreatSchools.org ranking (read: nothing).
lstanley - That's pretty much our view right now - let's find the right house and neighborhood, have the kid, put them in elementary and middle school and then figure out what high school is right for them when the time comes. A lot can change in five years, much less 10 or, in our future kids case, 15 years. Part of me would love for them to go to Cretin-Derham but with our luck our kid will want to go to boarding school in Massachusetts, which would be totally fine with us.
nanojath - thank you mon ami, that is the answer we needed and wanted to hear. I don't even have kids and I dismiss any metric that uses standardized testing as the core of its grading system when it comes to school quality but, being former DC bots, we're used to looking for a quick metric to establish quality, which is something we're working hard to get out of.
lakeroon - we almost rented a place in MacGroveland but it got rented out the day we saw it. That neighborhood, from the small amount of time we've spent there so far, is also right up our alley but we're not sure if we're "St. Paul people" or not. Still, we'd love to hear about your experiences at Groveland Elementary! Check your memail!
posted by playertobenamedlater at 5:54 AM on November 15, 2013
Area Man - we didn't want to tip our hand but Hale is the school we were most interested in for the reasons you listed. We like our neighborhood in Keewaydin but the housing stock here is a little too small for us since I'll be working from home for the next five to six years and need a dedicated office. From riding around that area on my bike last week the part closest to Lake Nokomis seems pretty much ideal for us but we didn't know anything about Hale elementary outside of the GreatSchools.org ranking (read: nothing).
lstanley - That's pretty much our view right now - let's find the right house and neighborhood, have the kid, put them in elementary and middle school and then figure out what high school is right for them when the time comes. A lot can change in five years, much less 10 or, in our future kids case, 15 years. Part of me would love for them to go to Cretin-Derham but with our luck our kid will want to go to boarding school in Massachusetts, which would be totally fine with us.
nanojath - thank you mon ami, that is the answer we needed and wanted to hear. I don't even have kids and I dismiss any metric that uses standardized testing as the core of its grading system when it comes to school quality but, being former DC bots, we're used to looking for a quick metric to establish quality, which is something we're working hard to get out of.
lakeroon - we almost rented a place in MacGroveland but it got rented out the day we saw it. That neighborhood, from the small amount of time we've spent there so far, is also right up our alley but we're not sure if we're "St. Paul people" or not. Still, we'd love to hear about your experiences at Groveland Elementary! Check your memail!
posted by playertobenamedlater at 5:54 AM on November 15, 2013
I'm glad you are considering my neighborhood. Hale really is a good school. My wife, who used to teach herself, has volunteered in 5-6 classrooms over the last few years and she thinks well of the school. There is one teacher in the school who is generally acknowledged not to be particularly good, but she's been getting a lot of coaching and seems to be making some improvements. And even she is a caring person who likes kids and tries hard to teach them.
I don't know much about how the school handles learning disabilities. I will ask my wife and get back to you. She knows a lot more about the school. I would be surprised if they weren't trying to identify kids with dyslexia and ADD. I know that I myself was tested for dyslexia by the MPS when I was kid.
I love the neighborhood, but I can't claim to be objective in any way. My dad also lives here and I spent part of my childhood at his house. (I spent even more of my childhood in Keewaydin near 50th and 28th). We enjoy being close to Lake Nokomis, the creek, and the other parks in the neighborhood (Edward Solomon Park, Todd Park, and Pearl Park). Obviously, airport noise is an issue, but I assume you are getting it at your current home. I've gotten used to it over the years and my kids just think it is a natural part of life.
posted by Area Man at 6:29 AM on November 19, 2013
I don't know much about how the school handles learning disabilities. I will ask my wife and get back to you. She knows a lot more about the school. I would be surprised if they weren't trying to identify kids with dyslexia and ADD. I know that I myself was tested for dyslexia by the MPS when I was kid.
I love the neighborhood, but I can't claim to be objective in any way. My dad also lives here and I spent part of my childhood at his house. (I spent even more of my childhood in Keewaydin near 50th and 28th). We enjoy being close to Lake Nokomis, the creek, and the other parks in the neighborhood (Edward Solomon Park, Todd Park, and Pearl Park). Obviously, airport noise is an issue, but I assume you are getting it at your current home. I've gotten used to it over the years and my kids just think it is a natural part of life.
posted by Area Man at 6:29 AM on November 19, 2013
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My friends & siblings live in St. Paul, and some of their kids go to parish schools and some to the local public schools. *shrug* It's hard to say whether the schools will be a good fit without knowing you and your kids.
posted by wenestvedt at 7:58 AM on November 13, 2013