LCSWs and Psychology Ph.Ds, tell me about yourself
November 11, 2013 10:35 AM Subscribe
I'm looking for current LCSW and Clinical/Counseling Psychology PhD holders to give me "real life" information on the pros and cons of each degree.
I have read previous questions, but none seem to specifically address what I'd like to know. I have consulted college advisors and they have not been too helpful. To make this short, this isn't a passing phase. I feel committed to this career path and want the best training to get me to my end goal.
Dream job: counsel clinically healthy (not sure if this is the appropriate term) adolescents and adults on "every day" relationships and individual issues (e.g. marriage, self-esteem, work, stress, etc.) My ideal setting would be a mental health clinic, a middle or high school, and/or eventually, a private practice. I know I'd only be able to teach or do research with a Ph.D, however, I'm not sure I'm interested in doing those things. At this point, I don't want to limit myself.
*As far as the school setting goes, I loved the idea of a school psychologist until I learned (through interviewing one and personal research) that they mostly deal with learning disabilities and academic issues rather personal/emotional problems. If anyone in the field can argue this, then I'd be happy to consider this option. Also, I have looked into School Social Work, but from what I have read, it just pays too little for requiring a master's degree (<$40k).
I've considered "stepping stone" careers to the Ph.D that I could get after earning a MA in Counseling Psych, such school counseling or academic advising then later earning a Ph.D, but the amount of time spent training for these professions doesn't seem worth the time or money when I consider them temporary. Also, when I search for these jobs, there doesn't seem to be too many of them.
Because of these reasons, I have narrowed my options down to two degrees:
MSW (and then become licensed) or a Ph.D in Counseling Psychology.
LCSW:
+ shortest route: 1-2 year program
+ seems like I can do exactly what I want with this degree
+ superficial reason: more programs than the Counseling Psych Ph.Ds and thus more appealing schools and locations
- I don't know if I'll be looked down upon by employers or patients when compared to psychologists - I want a degree that gives me the most opportunities.
- I don't have a real interest in social work (I'm not sure if this is relevant to a clinical track of MSW, but I have heard that I will still have to take SW courses.)
- I don't know how the "style" of training differs. I have heard that this depends on the therapist and not on his/her credentials.
- I don't want to get stuck in a job that one traditionally does with a social work degree.
Counseling Psych Ph.D:
+ seems like the most conventional and guaranteed way of getting the job I want.
- the idea of committing to another 5-7 years of school isn't the most appealing, but if is the best way, then I will do it.
I have done so much reading on these professions and now I would love to learn from the people within them (or people who know something about them.) I truly appreciate any advice, anecdotes, or thoughts. Thank you very much!
I have read previous questions, but none seem to specifically address what I'd like to know. I have consulted college advisors and they have not been too helpful. To make this short, this isn't a passing phase. I feel committed to this career path and want the best training to get me to my end goal.
Dream job: counsel clinically healthy (not sure if this is the appropriate term) adolescents and adults on "every day" relationships and individual issues (e.g. marriage, self-esteem, work, stress, etc.) My ideal setting would be a mental health clinic, a middle or high school, and/or eventually, a private practice. I know I'd only be able to teach or do research with a Ph.D, however, I'm not sure I'm interested in doing those things. At this point, I don't want to limit myself.
*As far as the school setting goes, I loved the idea of a school psychologist until I learned (through interviewing one and personal research) that they mostly deal with learning disabilities and academic issues rather personal/emotional problems. If anyone in the field can argue this, then I'd be happy to consider this option. Also, I have looked into School Social Work, but from what I have read, it just pays too little for requiring a master's degree (<$40k).
I've considered "stepping stone" careers to the Ph.D that I could get after earning a MA in Counseling Psych, such school counseling or academic advising then later earning a Ph.D, but the amount of time spent training for these professions doesn't seem worth the time or money when I consider them temporary. Also, when I search for these jobs, there doesn't seem to be too many of them.
Because of these reasons, I have narrowed my options down to two degrees:
MSW (and then become licensed) or a Ph.D in Counseling Psychology.
LCSW:
+ shortest route: 1-2 year program
+ seems like I can do exactly what I want with this degree
+ superficial reason: more programs than the Counseling Psych Ph.Ds and thus more appealing schools and locations
- I don't know if I'll be looked down upon by employers or patients when compared to psychologists - I want a degree that gives me the most opportunities.
- I don't have a real interest in social work (I'm not sure if this is relevant to a clinical track of MSW, but I have heard that I will still have to take SW courses.)
- I don't know how the "style" of training differs. I have heard that this depends on the therapist and not on his/her credentials.
- I don't want to get stuck in a job that one traditionally does with a social work degree.
Counseling Psych Ph.D:
+ seems like the most conventional and guaranteed way of getting the job I want.
- the idea of committing to another 5-7 years of school isn't the most appealing, but if is the best way, then I will do it.
I have done so much reading on these professions and now I would love to learn from the people within them (or people who know something about them.) I truly appreciate any advice, anecdotes, or thoughts. Thank you very much!
Seconding life coaching. You can get a great certificate from Columbia Teacher's College in NYC. This is really what you want to do, take people from "ok" to their "personal best." I know a woman who took up this course and started her own business (she had previously been a director in HR).
Life coaching has no formal governing body (yet), so you will have to do some heavy research into which program is best. Also consider that your target market will be people with discretionary income (families, professionals), so consider an Executive Coaching Certificate as well.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 11:16 AM on November 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
Life coaching has no formal governing body (yet), so you will have to do some heavy research into which program is best. Also consider that your target market will be people with discretionary income (families, professionals), so consider an Executive Coaching Certificate as well.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 11:16 AM on November 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: They are both fine degrees ( MSW and PhD Psych) but I think you will find the MSW offers greater horizontal and vertical mobility. The esential problems with a PhD in Psychology are that practioneers have priced themself out of the market place except for private practice and academic/research positions. There is very little reason for a agency/clinic to hire a PhD. when a MSW can do essentially the same thing--unless there is a need for highly specialized assessment and evauation.
From an investment/return basis I think you will find an MSW a better bet--UNLESS--you are sure you want to build and develop a private practice (fee for service) or pursue academia. What ever you do--go to a fully accredited school and do not get a "short cut" degree or a Masters in other than Social Work. There are a few exceptions such as Rehabilitation Counseling, etc. A number of schools will offer one year degrees in counseling/psychology/etc. that can quickly become career dead ends. Attend a school and pursue a degree that operates under National Accrediting standards and will lead to a recognized license. I am saying this based on my observations of 40 years in the field --20 doing clinical (private and agency) practice and 20 as an Executive with very large staff of MH professionals. Good Luck. Feel free to email me if you have specific questions.
posted by rmhsinc at 11:35 AM on November 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
From an investment/return basis I think you will find an MSW a better bet--UNLESS--you are sure you want to build and develop a private practice (fee for service) or pursue academia. What ever you do--go to a fully accredited school and do not get a "short cut" degree or a Masters in other than Social Work. There are a few exceptions such as Rehabilitation Counseling, etc. A number of schools will offer one year degrees in counseling/psychology/etc. that can quickly become career dead ends. Attend a school and pursue a degree that operates under National Accrediting standards and will lead to a recognized license. I am saying this based on my observations of 40 years in the field --20 doing clinical (private and agency) practice and 20 as an Executive with very large staff of MH professionals. Good Luck. Feel free to email me if you have specific questions.
posted by rmhsinc at 11:35 AM on November 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
If you don't want to teach or do research, you could also look into Psy.D. programs - these are doctoral-level clinical degrees in psychology but they are not research based in the same way a Ph.D. is. These programs are still sparse but are slowly growing in popularity. They take more time than an MSW but usually less than a Ph.D. because there is no original research dissertation to write in your last year(s). The upside is you can call yourself "Dr." and can charge the higher rates that insurance providers won't pay LCSW's.
posted by trivia genius at 11:37 AM on November 11, 2013
posted by trivia genius at 11:37 AM on November 11, 2013
Best answer: My background: I'm in the process of applying to both MSW and Counseling Psychology programs. I decided to ease in by getting certified as chemical dependency professional and working for a few years to make sure I really, really wanted to do this work. It's made due diligence quite easy. For me it's been humbling - I have a lot to learn and I'm grateful to have had plenty of time/practice to work out reflexive prejudices and preconceived ideas about the profession.
*If you go the counseling psychology route, look for schools with the highest standards leading to licensure...as in the number of education credits and supervised practice hours. It's easier to transfer credentials state to state if you think you might need to do that. Yes, the LCSW is by far the most versatile, but counseling psychology might be a better fit if you know absolutely that you want to do clinical work.
* Do some looking into the job market for PsyD's in your area. In mine, fewer and fewer insurance companies and organizations are paneling/hiring doctoral level practitioners, when they do they tend to pay at the Master's level (as rmhsinc said). Every PsyD candidate I know right now is having a harder time finding internships than LPC/LCSW candidates.
* PsyD programs are often not funded the way PhD programs are. It can be a huge debt load for such a limited job market. There are lots of PsyD and Counseling Psychology puppy mills. Be careful.
* Many MSW programs can be a grind, especially if you're not interested in social work proper. It is, by definition, abroad degree. Some programs have very focused clinical tracks, some leave clinical training almost exclusively to practicums and internships.
* Not sure your source of info...but check average salaries and projected job growth in the occupational outlook website for your state/where you want to live. The first few years of practice tend to be low-paid, it goes up after that. $40k may be median or average, but seems low for lifetime cap-out salaries. But...there are substantial regional differences.
* On both a practical level and (in my opinion) an professional obligation, be prepared to punch some time doing front line work with low income, mentally-ill and/or functionally impaired clients. Not sure what you mean by MH clinic, but the ones I know mainly serve these folks. Your choice of population might be more limiting than your choice of credential. Even if you don't want to do social work, some solid case management and program development/administration experience will help you remain competitive.
* There might be some professional snobbery from PhD's. I haven't seen much aside form the occasional PhD that rolls their eyes at PsyD's. But...they're douche-y, arrogant and no one likes them. Most folks understand that clinical skill and effectiveness have nothing to do with degree/credential.
* If you want to go into private practice, take a small business management class and don't count on the school to do much teaching about how to build a practice, market yourself, cultivate a referral stream etc. The schools I'm applying to address some PP issues with an 'oh, hey, by they way, it's hard and you probably can't do it straight out of school' at the very tail end of the program.
* In my experience, I've found that the most difficult, draining and emotionally destructive part of the work is trying to navigate, survive and do good work in a dysfunctional organization. I can work with challenging populations all day and never get tired of it. I can't remain healthy, vital, and effective dividing my energies between my patients and a messed-up work place...but again, many have to punch their time in at some point, just don't get stuck in one.
* Look for internship sites with a reputation for excellent clinical supervision, that's where a great deal of learning takes place.
* If you haven't already, get into therapy yourself....many counseling programs require it. It's a tremendous learning experience. Everyone goes into the profession with some issues to work through, blind spots etc. It's a cliche, but a true one, that if you don't know what your vulnerabilities are, you'll enact them with your clients in ways you may not be able to recognize or modulate. The idea isn't to have everything perfectly tied up and sorted out, just aware and deliberate with how to manage your personal stuff in session. It's vital to know what it's like to sit in the client seat, it can help you sharpen your ability to identify when things are working and when they're not.
Have fun!
posted by space_cookie at 1:46 PM on November 11, 2013 [8 favorites]
*If you go the counseling psychology route, look for schools with the highest standards leading to licensure...as in the number of education credits and supervised practice hours. It's easier to transfer credentials state to state if you think you might need to do that. Yes, the LCSW is by far the most versatile, but counseling psychology might be a better fit if you know absolutely that you want to do clinical work.
* Do some looking into the job market for PsyD's in your area. In mine, fewer and fewer insurance companies and organizations are paneling/hiring doctoral level practitioners, when they do they tend to pay at the Master's level (as rmhsinc said). Every PsyD candidate I know right now is having a harder time finding internships than LPC/LCSW candidates.
* PsyD programs are often not funded the way PhD programs are. It can be a huge debt load for such a limited job market. There are lots of PsyD and Counseling Psychology puppy mills. Be careful.
* Many MSW programs can be a grind, especially if you're not interested in social work proper. It is, by definition, abroad degree. Some programs have very focused clinical tracks, some leave clinical training almost exclusively to practicums and internships.
* Not sure your source of info...but check average salaries and projected job growth in the occupational outlook website for your state/where you want to live. The first few years of practice tend to be low-paid, it goes up after that. $40k may be median or average, but seems low for lifetime cap-out salaries. But...there are substantial regional differences.
* On both a practical level and (in my opinion) an professional obligation, be prepared to punch some time doing front line work with low income, mentally-ill and/or functionally impaired clients. Not sure what you mean by MH clinic, but the ones I know mainly serve these folks. Your choice of population might be more limiting than your choice of credential. Even if you don't want to do social work, some solid case management and program development/administration experience will help you remain competitive.
* There might be some professional snobbery from PhD's. I haven't seen much aside form the occasional PhD that rolls their eyes at PsyD's. But...they're douche-y, arrogant and no one likes them. Most folks understand that clinical skill and effectiveness have nothing to do with degree/credential.
* If you want to go into private practice, take a small business management class and don't count on the school to do much teaching about how to build a practice, market yourself, cultivate a referral stream etc. The schools I'm applying to address some PP issues with an 'oh, hey, by they way, it's hard and you probably can't do it straight out of school' at the very tail end of the program.
* In my experience, I've found that the most difficult, draining and emotionally destructive part of the work is trying to navigate, survive and do good work in a dysfunctional organization. I can work with challenging populations all day and never get tired of it. I can't remain healthy, vital, and effective dividing my energies between my patients and a messed-up work place...but again, many have to punch their time in at some point, just don't get stuck in one.
* Look for internship sites with a reputation for excellent clinical supervision, that's where a great deal of learning takes place.
* If you haven't already, get into therapy yourself....many counseling programs require it. It's a tremendous learning experience. Everyone goes into the profession with some issues to work through, blind spots etc. It's a cliche, but a true one, that if you don't know what your vulnerabilities are, you'll enact them with your clients in ways you may not be able to recognize or modulate. The idea isn't to have everything perfectly tied up and sorted out, just aware and deliberate with how to manage your personal stuff in session. It's vital to know what it's like to sit in the client seat, it can help you sharpen your ability to identify when things are working and when they're not.
Have fun!
posted by space_cookie at 1:46 PM on November 11, 2013 [8 favorites]
I've worked in public and private middle/high schools, and the job you're describing does not exist.
There are school counselors, and their job is to work with kids who are having severe troubles. There's typically 1 counselor per 400 students. They barely have time to see kids who are suicidal; they would never have time to coach kids who are a little stressed.
There's one school psychologist per school, and their job is to do testing and make reports. They don't counsel any kids.
posted by kinetic at 1:59 PM on November 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
There are school counselors, and their job is to work with kids who are having severe troubles. There's typically 1 counselor per 400 students. They barely have time to see kids who are suicidal; they would never have time to coach kids who are a little stressed.
There's one school psychologist per school, and their job is to do testing and make reports. They don't counsel any kids.
posted by kinetic at 1:59 PM on November 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
space_Cookie: What an excellent and thoughtful response. I'm not sure it could have been said better in less words. I trust you will be successful what ever you do.
posted by rmhsinc at 2:28 PM on November 11, 2013
posted by rmhsinc at 2:28 PM on November 11, 2013
"counsel clinically healthy (not sure if this is the appropriate term) adolescents and adults on "every day" relationships and individual issues (e.g. marriage, self-esteem, work, stress, etc.) My ideal setting would be a mental health clinic, a middle or high school, and/or eventually, a private practice."
I'm not exactly sure what you're thinking 'clinically healthy' is but I'm guessing to you it means "not having a major Axis I diagnosis" and I think it could be important to you to note that people do not seek therapy that they pay for unless they are going through at least moderate to significant distress that somehow interrupts usual functioning, which means they are qualifying for Axis I and sometimes Axis II diagnoses. The goal of building a successful/sustainable private practice of clients with minimal "issues" is almost guaranteed not to happen. Finding a job as a recent grad to collect your practice hours toward licensure in a counseling center where you will avoid clients with major Axis I diagnoses is also almost guaranteed not to happen.
Also consider that even if one is a fully-licensed and capable-of-supervising LCSW, the current job market means that sometimes, licensed psychologists may be applying for the same jobs, and they will get the jobs because they will accept similar pay rates because many people are un-/underemployed in this field at the current moment, and funding from government sources is growing smaller and smaller, meaning fewer and fewer jobs in the nonprofit and county-funded sectors, which is the heart of where mental health jobs actually exist.
space_cookie's advice above is great. I'm a master's-level therapist (MFT, not LCSW, though) in CA with 5-6 years of practice behind me and I would say most all of the things mentioned there I've found to be pretty accurate.
posted by so_gracefully at 2:40 PM on November 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
I'm not exactly sure what you're thinking 'clinically healthy' is but I'm guessing to you it means "not having a major Axis I diagnosis" and I think it could be important to you to note that people do not seek therapy that they pay for unless they are going through at least moderate to significant distress that somehow interrupts usual functioning, which means they are qualifying for Axis I and sometimes Axis II diagnoses. The goal of building a successful/sustainable private practice of clients with minimal "issues" is almost guaranteed not to happen. Finding a job as a recent grad to collect your practice hours toward licensure in a counseling center where you will avoid clients with major Axis I diagnoses is also almost guaranteed not to happen.
Also consider that even if one is a fully-licensed and capable-of-supervising LCSW, the current job market means that sometimes, licensed psychologists may be applying for the same jobs, and they will get the jobs because they will accept similar pay rates because many people are un-/underemployed in this field at the current moment, and funding from government sources is growing smaller and smaller, meaning fewer and fewer jobs in the nonprofit and county-funded sectors, which is the heart of where mental health jobs actually exist.
space_cookie's advice above is great. I'm a master's-level therapist (MFT, not LCSW, though) in CA with 5-6 years of practice behind me and I would say most all of the things mentioned there I've found to be pretty accurate.
posted by so_gracefully at 2:40 PM on November 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Some clarification: I used "clinically healthy" to indicate that I'd be more interested in counseling psych over clinical; I'd like to treat disorders such as anxiety and depression, but I'm less interested in providing therapy for, say, individuals with personality disorders or schizophrenia. I know people who are healthy and satisfied would not likely seek therapy. :)
(Also, the salary was for school social workers only, not SWs in other fields. I found it on sites such as ONet and Indeed.)
posted by metacognition at 3:41 PM on November 11, 2013
(Also, the salary was for school social workers only, not SWs in other fields. I found it on sites such as ONet and Indeed.)
posted by metacognition at 3:41 PM on November 11, 2013
Ah. Okay. "Clinical" work, practice, area of expertise...whatever, is shorthand for psychotherapy, therapy, counseling etc. There are some differences between the psychotherapist and counselor roles/functions, but they're more similar than not at the graduate level. The C in LCSW denotes adequate education, training and supervised clinical (psycho-therapeutic) practice for your license. MA, M.Ed., MSW, PsyD, PhD (depending) all land in the same place if you want to be a therapist. Counseling psychology is a term I rarely see outside of academic settings - it's usually a program/department title and has little bearing on job description.
Go on as many informational interviews as you can stand with as many different types of professionals as you can get your hands on. It's worth every second and will help you get a good view of the field.
Whatever you decide, make sure that the program you end up in leads to a license that is accepted by all insurance panels in the state you want to work in if you want maximum employability. The good news is the ACA mandates mental health parity, the bad news is it has locked us into the insurance racket for now. This impacts pros at all levels - state run agencies, non-profits, for-profits and private practice.
It's fine to have an idea of what kinds of populations/conditions/issues you'd like to work with, but don't get too attached to it. You probably won't have a choice if you're working for someone else. It's generally a bad idea to talk yourself into or out of something this early on. What you want to focus on changes as you change. People surprise themselves. Some people go in thinking there's no way in hell they could ever work with sex offenders or people who abuse their children but do just beautifully and have a blast. I thought I wanted to work with families, ends up I love, love, love working with angry, blustery, antisocial men and am not nearly as fluid with families. Who knew?
Besides, you'll encounter lots of "personality disordered" type thinking, relating and behaving regardless of DSM label. You'll have to learn to work with it. You'll see this in school settings, in the families of students if you go that route, in colleagues, in private practice, agency work etc. Axis II stuff isn't always easy to parse out from other conditions, is notoriously gendered, can emerge early or after several months with a client blah blah blah. It is unavoidable, best not try to avoid it. Working with severe and persistent mental illness isn't bad at all, especially in a mature, functional, multidisciplinary team. Different settings, populations and problems tease out and fine tune different skills and talents. Be as open as you can be for now. It's all transferable and applicable no matter who you work with.
Do lots of homework, pick some schools, apply, get in, and let the rest work itself out in it's own time. It will.
ps. awe, thanks, rmhsinc.
posted by space_cookie at 9:25 PM on November 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
Go on as many informational interviews as you can stand with as many different types of professionals as you can get your hands on. It's worth every second and will help you get a good view of the field.
Whatever you decide, make sure that the program you end up in leads to a license that is accepted by all insurance panels in the state you want to work in if you want maximum employability. The good news is the ACA mandates mental health parity, the bad news is it has locked us into the insurance racket for now. This impacts pros at all levels - state run agencies, non-profits, for-profits and private practice.
It's fine to have an idea of what kinds of populations/conditions/issues you'd like to work with, but don't get too attached to it. You probably won't have a choice if you're working for someone else. It's generally a bad idea to talk yourself into or out of something this early on. What you want to focus on changes as you change. People surprise themselves. Some people go in thinking there's no way in hell they could ever work with sex offenders or people who abuse their children but do just beautifully and have a blast. I thought I wanted to work with families, ends up I love, love, love working with angry, blustery, antisocial men and am not nearly as fluid with families. Who knew?
Besides, you'll encounter lots of "personality disordered" type thinking, relating and behaving regardless of DSM label. You'll have to learn to work with it. You'll see this in school settings, in the families of students if you go that route, in colleagues, in private practice, agency work etc. Axis II stuff isn't always easy to parse out from other conditions, is notoriously gendered, can emerge early or after several months with a client blah blah blah. It is unavoidable, best not try to avoid it. Working with severe and persistent mental illness isn't bad at all, especially in a mature, functional, multidisciplinary team. Different settings, populations and problems tease out and fine tune different skills and talents. Be as open as you can be for now. It's all transferable and applicable no matter who you work with.
Do lots of homework, pick some schools, apply, get in, and let the rest work itself out in it's own time. It will.
ps. awe, thanks, rmhsinc.
posted by space_cookie at 9:25 PM on November 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
A few thoughts -
first, definitely look into PsyD - it is a different program than a PhD in Psychology and being more clinical.
second, make sure you look at total time to licensure, not just time in school. I think (but I don't really remember) that a PsyD gets more of their hours before their degree so the total time may not be as different as it looks
third, depending on your state, look at a degree in counseling psychology leading to an LPCC (licensed professional clinical counselor) or MFT (marriage and family therapist - they also work with individuals)
posted by metahawk at 9:29 PM on November 11, 2013
first, definitely look into PsyD - it is a different program than a PhD in Psychology and being more clinical.
second, make sure you look at total time to licensure, not just time in school. I think (but I don't really remember) that a PsyD gets more of their hours before their degree so the total time may not be as different as it looks
third, depending on your state, look at a degree in counseling psychology leading to an LPCC (licensed professional clinical counselor) or MFT (marriage and family therapist - they also work with individuals)
posted by metahawk at 9:29 PM on November 11, 2013
Response by poster: Thank you very much for your responses!
posted by metacognition at 6:48 PM on November 13, 2013
posted by metacognition at 6:48 PM on November 13, 2013
I'm in my second year of my MSW program with the intention of earning my "C" in 3 years (in New York state, it's 2000 hours and 3 years after graduating that you get your "C" and can open a private practice, more or less). I put in a lot of thought before I applied to programs and ultimately decided two things that I have since never, ever regretted:
1) I wanted to offer straight-up therapy to, as you define them, "clinically healthy" people. I did not want to slave away at an agency or gray my hair with bureaucracy BS or attempt to treat mandated clients who didn't want my help.
2) I did not want to go broke earning my degree.
For me, it was never a question between the MSW and the PsyD or Phd. Talk therapy is increasingly the province of LCSWs. In social work school, I'm currently learning about psychodynamics and CBT and DBT, and then I go to my amazing internship at a counseling institute where I apply that knowledge.
My personal advice is, if you want to do talk therapy and not bother with research, test administration or pharmacology, then find a reputable, affordable MSW program and make sure to take classes with professors who are focused on psychodynamics and/or have their own private practice. In NYC, that meant going to a well-respected state school over the more expensive-but-not-better Columbia and NYU social work programs. Honestly, your degree's pedigree matters a lot less than where you interned and your own personal ability to create that therapeutic alliance with clients. Don't pay Ivy League prices for an MSW.
Forgive me if my response is convoluted - I'm beat from midterms and treatment plans. Please memail me if you have more questions!
posted by zoomorphic at 8:58 PM on November 13, 2013 [2 favorites]
1) I wanted to offer straight-up therapy to, as you define them, "clinically healthy" people. I did not want to slave away at an agency or gray my hair with bureaucracy BS or attempt to treat mandated clients who didn't want my help.
2) I did not want to go broke earning my degree.
For me, it was never a question between the MSW and the PsyD or Phd. Talk therapy is increasingly the province of LCSWs. In social work school, I'm currently learning about psychodynamics and CBT and DBT, and then I go to my amazing internship at a counseling institute where I apply that knowledge.
My personal advice is, if you want to do talk therapy and not bother with research, test administration or pharmacology, then find a reputable, affordable MSW program and make sure to take classes with professors who are focused on psychodynamics and/or have their own private practice. In NYC, that meant going to a well-respected state school over the more expensive-but-not-better Columbia and NYU social work programs. Honestly, your degree's pedigree matters a lot less than where you interned and your own personal ability to create that therapeutic alliance with clients. Don't pay Ivy League prices for an MSW.
Forgive me if my response is convoluted - I'm beat from midterms and treatment plans. Please memail me if you have more questions!
posted by zoomorphic at 8:58 PM on November 13, 2013 [2 favorites]
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