Do I need a work visa to work *remotely* from another country?
November 1, 2013 7:42 PM Subscribe
Let's say my wife is transferred by her company to work in Thailand, or China, or Australia, or anywhere outside the US. Her company gets me (her husband) a visa to live in said country with her. While in said country, I want to work remotely for a company based in the US, which does not do business in said country. My company is willing to hire me as an independent contractor.
Do I need a work visa in said country?
I realize this answer will differ from country to country, but I'm curious to see what kind of advice I can get in general on this question.
You need a work permit to work in Thailand legally - there's a thread here with the question of working remotely.
Bottom line is , if you are working you must have a work permit.posted by JonB at 12:51 AM on November 2, 2013
I would imagine that many take the chance and work from home etc staying under the radar, but, always remember in Thailand that if caught without a work permit you could very well be fined, deported and in the worst case blacklisted.
Any time you are earning money in a country in which you are residing (I honestly don't know of any exceptions that are actually legal), you will need a work visa for that country. As a freelancer/independent contractor, you'll apply with a view to starting your own business in that country, which generally means submitting business plans. In other words, you'll need proof of potential income: providing the contract with the US-based company should suffice. That's the part that can be different according to country, though.
You will also need to declare taxes, since everywhere except the US bases taxation on residency. (You'll also need to keep declaring taxes in the US, due to that same exception.)
Can you fly under the radar? Sure. Do you want to take that risk? Pretty much every country will fine, deport, and even blacklist you if caught. And that's just that country. The US also keeps tabs on these things. Getting your name flagged by security agencies probably wouldn't be much fun for future travel anywhere.
posted by fraula at 1:19 AM on November 2, 2013
You will also need to declare taxes, since everywhere except the US bases taxation on residency. (You'll also need to keep declaring taxes in the US, due to that same exception.)
Can you fly under the radar? Sure. Do you want to take that risk? Pretty much every country will fine, deport, and even blacklist you if caught. And that's just that country. The US also keeps tabs on these things. Getting your name flagged by security agencies probably wouldn't be much fun for future travel anywhere.
posted by fraula at 1:19 AM on November 2, 2013
Many countries will want you to have a residence permit to be there longer than three months, or however long you're allowed to be there as a tourist, regardless of if you're working. When and how this will kick in varies by country. Also, some countries will let you conduct business while you're there for that 'tourist' time period and some won't, again varying by country.
Generally (but not always) being there with your spouse mean you'll have no problem getting a residency permit due to international standards for family reunification. This may or may not let you work and local vs remote working may or may not be treated differently under those rules. This also, again, totally varies by country. For example, a sponsored work permit for Australia allows the spouse to also come along and work as well, so you'd probably be covered there. In all of these cases you'd need to be included on the work permit application and wait for it to be issued etc just like your spouse, so it does take some arranging.
Telling you to just not worry about it is pretty bad advice frankly. Every country is always going to have some kind of rules you need to care about and they're so varied that you're always going to have to research each specific place you're thinking of going. The consequences of getting it wrong will screw over your wife as well as you.
posted by shelleycat at 1:25 AM on November 2, 2013 [1 favorite]
Generally (but not always) being there with your spouse mean you'll have no problem getting a residency permit due to international standards for family reunification. This may or may not let you work and local vs remote working may or may not be treated differently under those rules. This also, again, totally varies by country. For example, a sponsored work permit for Australia allows the spouse to also come along and work as well, so you'd probably be covered there. In all of these cases you'd need to be included on the work permit application and wait for it to be issued etc just like your spouse, so it does take some arranging.
Telling you to just not worry about it is pretty bad advice frankly. Every country is always going to have some kind of rules you need to care about and they're so varied that you're always going to have to research each specific place you're thinking of going. The consequences of getting it wrong will screw over your wife as well as you.
posted by shelleycat at 1:25 AM on November 2, 2013 [1 favorite]
I suspect that there are many people doing this in the short term - as a European visiting the USA as a tourist I might spend some time working working remotely for a client back home for example. As shelleycat points out, the problems are likely to kick in at the point when you reach your host country's limits of your allocated tourist visa. At that stage you are clearly visible to the immigration authorities as somebody who is breaking the country's rules - they can deport you, investigate your work habits and so on. A second problem can kick in if you buy a property or find yourself in a long term rental: tax bills will start to appear, you need to have a local bank account and so on - these are situations which compel you to either either change your residential status, or break the law.
posted by rongorongo at 4:27 AM on November 2, 2013
posted by rongorongo at 4:27 AM on November 2, 2013
My husband is a programmer and he works in a different country, gets paid in the US and only has a spousal visa. No work permit. You aren't making money in that other country. You are making money in the US, which you then are spending as a tourist in new country.
posted by mrfuga0 at 6:02 AM on November 2, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by mrfuga0 at 6:02 AM on November 2, 2013 [3 favorites]
My organization regularly posts employees and spouses abroad. We have many spouses working from home for organizations in our headquarters country, and I have never heard of any of them needing a work visa. (They do, however, often need a visa or permit to live in the host country with their spouse, and my organization obtains that for them.)
In general, countries require work visas in order to regulate their labour markets and collect taxes on money earned within their borders. In your case, your job will actually be within the US, which is where you will be making money and paying taxes. You're not "taking" a job or funds from anyone in your host country.
(That said, there could be a couple of places that have different regulations, so it would be a good idea to have your wife's employer, who will be getting your spousal visa, check for you.)
posted by rpfields at 6:37 AM on November 2, 2013 [1 favorite]
In general, countries require work visas in order to regulate their labour markets and collect taxes on money earned within their borders. In your case, your job will actually be within the US, which is where you will be making money and paying taxes. You're not "taking" a job or funds from anyone in your host country.
(That said, there could be a couple of places that have different regulations, so it would be a good idea to have your wife's employer, who will be getting your spousal visa, check for you.)
posted by rpfields at 6:37 AM on November 2, 2013 [1 favorite]
Specifically for Canada, this is totally allowed, as long as you're payed by an American company, into an American bank account, in American funds. My American wife did this while she had "visitor status" (i.e., a tourist visa) in Canada while awaiting her permanent residence to be granted, and we checked it with various government agencies.
Things can get a bit tricky, though, so it's wise to get an accountant involved. For example, even though my wife wasn't a resident from Immigration's point of view, she *was* a resident from the Canada Revenue Agency (the tax authority)'s point of view. So she *did* have to file a Canadian tax return, and pay Canadian income taxes on her American income. Things can get tricky if two different countries' tax authorities both consider you a resident at the same time. Also, as an American, you *always* have to file a tax return in the USA and pay US taxes if you're a US citizen (even if not a resident). However, there is a tax treaty in place with Canada that means you almost never have to actually pay the US tax unless you make a lot of money. Different countries would have different tax treaties.
Another thing to note is that this probably isn't relevant anyway. If your wife has a work visa in Canada, you can get one as well since you're her spouse. This would really be the only way you could stay in Canada for more than six months anyway, since that's the maximum length a non-work/study visa. Most other countries I've looked at have a similar arrangement.
posted by Emanuel at 1:15 PM on November 2, 2013
Things can get a bit tricky, though, so it's wise to get an accountant involved. For example, even though my wife wasn't a resident from Immigration's point of view, she *was* a resident from the Canada Revenue Agency (the tax authority)'s point of view. So she *did* have to file a Canadian tax return, and pay Canadian income taxes on her American income. Things can get tricky if two different countries' tax authorities both consider you a resident at the same time. Also, as an American, you *always* have to file a tax return in the USA and pay US taxes if you're a US citizen (even if not a resident). However, there is a tax treaty in place with Canada that means you almost never have to actually pay the US tax unless you make a lot of money. Different countries would have different tax treaties.
Another thing to note is that this probably isn't relevant anyway. If your wife has a work visa in Canada, you can get one as well since you're her spouse. This would really be the only way you could stay in Canada for more than six months anyway, since that's the maximum length a non-work/study visa. Most other countries I've looked at have a similar arrangement.
posted by Emanuel at 1:15 PM on November 2, 2013
(BTW, for Canada, the word "spouse" is interpreted very liberally. You don't need to be married, but merely living together for at least one year. Same sex spouses also meet the definition.)
posted by Emanuel at 1:20 PM on November 2, 2013
posted by Emanuel at 1:20 PM on November 2, 2013
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posted by Che boludo! at 7:57 PM on November 1, 2013 [1 favorite]