Is this creepy?

October 25, 2013 2:26 PM

I'm on a very painful apartment hunt in the Bay Area, and having no luck finding anything (I've applied four times now). It's a terrible market for a renter and there's a lot of competition. Early this week, I finally found a place I liked and that the landlord seemed willing to rent to me-- but then he sent a series of text messages that made me question his sanity. He lives on the property, so I want to feel comfortable around the guy. I told him I wasn't interested anymore, but now I'm second-guessing myself. How strange do you think these messages are, and should I be worried?

More background: The guy is probably in his sixties, and lives alone. He's retired, so usually around. The apartment is on the lower level of his home. When I met him and saw the apartment, we talked for quite a while. He seemed a little eccentric and awkward, but friendly. A few things seemed a little weird: at one point he said "I'm really nervous," with a nervous laugh (apropos of nothing); he also implied that he was disappointed the current tenant (like me, a young woman) didn't want to spend time hanging out with him. The house isn't shared, it's a fully separate unit. When we met, I told him I wanted to apply, gave him my info, and he told me to think about it and text him the next day.

The next day, I called and left a message saying I wanted the place, and sent a text as well. He texted back saying it might be hard for him if he had other good applicants (as far I knew, no one else had applied yet), and that he'd get back to me in six days. I was a little annoyed, since the end of the month is fast approaching and I want to have firm plans, but accepted this. Then the odd texts started.

Him: Will you devise a personality test to help me decide the most compatible tenant?
Him: we're sharing the same house, after all [note, as i mentioned above, it's not shared, and he'd had quite a bit of time to talk with me]
Him: Did I tell you I had a pet snake that lives in the apartment that keeps hiding out?
Him: (that was a humor test)
Him: Seriously though, I'm not a trickster

[I didn't respond...my reaction was to feel creeped out.]

Him, later: I hope my sense of humor didn't scare you off. I can also give you personal references and previous tenant contacts if you want.

So, now he sounded reasonable again. The next, still feeling creeped out by the messages (and feeling like I wouldn't feel completely safe living next to him), I told him I didn't think it was a good fit after all. He sent more reasonable messages, apologizing. He said I had been his first choice and he was disappointed.

Did I overreact? Given the insanely tight housing market and my increasing desperation to find something, should I suck it up and (assuming he's still willing to rent to me), move into a slightly awkward situation?

posted by three_red_balloons to Home & Garden (51 answers total)

i would keep looking, really. even if he did get better initally, i'm pretty sure you'd spend a lot of time waiting for the other shoe to drop.
posted by koroshiya at 2:28 PM on October 25, 2013 [19 favorites]

Don't take it. If it made you uncomfortable, it will continue to make you uncomfortable. And he will have keys to your home.
posted by Kafkaesque at 2:30 PM on October 25, 2013 [30 favorites]

This reads to me as decidedly creepy, not just awkward. I would keep looking. If he's this weird when you don't even live there yet, imagine how weird he'll be with you as a captive audience. Avoid.
posted by hungrybruno at 2:31 PM on October 25, 2013 [20 favorites]

You did not overreact. I would have been creeped out by that, too.
posted by otherwordlyglow at 2:32 PM on October 25, 2013 [1 favorite]

I would be a bit creeped out. He might be a nice guy, but doesn't seem to have good boundaries, and those are important in a landlord.
posted by stoneandstar at 2:32 PM on October 25, 2013 [39 favorites]

he also implied that he was disappointed the current tenant (like me, a young woman) didn't want to spend time hanging out with him

I would not rent from this person unless I was desperate.
posted by jetlagaddict at 2:35 PM on October 25, 2013 [16 favorites]

Your home is a very important place that you need to feel safe in. If you're not going to feel safe there, and it sounds like you aren't, then don't move in.

If the market is so terrible, I'd be wondering why this place isn't rented already. That series of text messages would likely answer the question for me.
posted by Solomon at 2:35 PM on October 25, 2013 [8 favorites]

Asking "is this creepy" confirms it.
posted by oceanjesse at 2:37 PM on October 25, 2013 [6 favorites]

What? No. I would not share a house with this guy mostly because I want my living quarters to feel like my own and I would not want forced interaction with most anyone.

But also because he's already playing games by stringing you along instead of committing, asking you weird questions that include a reference to a pet snake which is often a code for penis, and is now placating you. I would definitely not want forced interaction with him, much less a business relationship involving my housing.
posted by vegartanipla at 2:37 PM on October 25, 2013 [4 favorites]

I was thinking most of it sounded quirky eccentric but probably ok. Then I got to this part: he also implied that he was disappointed the current tenant (like me, a young woman) didn't want to spend time hanging out with him. This one is the deal breaker, and why you should not take the place.
posted by gudrun at 2:39 PM on October 25, 2013 [8 favorites]

NO.

A long time ago, I was spied on by a landlord that lived on the same property. Not fun.

Also, it will get hella weird living there once you refuse hanging out with him.

- The comment about the last tenant not hanging out with him was his way of putting you on notice/fishing for your acquiescence about him invading your personal life.

You missed this. When you told him you wanted to apply, he (mentally ill person) took that as a "green light" that you would put up with his harrassment and provide drama, if you moved in.

- The comment about his nervousness was his way of disclosing to you that he's crazy.

- The snake comment was him telling you he wants his "snake" to "get lost", well, in you. Sorry for the visual, but again, he was testing the waters here.

OVERALL, YOU DID THE RIGHT THING. CONGRATS!!
posted by jbenben at 2:39 PM on October 25, 2013 [23 favorites]

All of this sounds very sketchy, and I wouldn't want this guy to have keys to my place.
posted by jaguar at 2:40 PM on October 25, 2013 [1 favorite]

Adding to the chorus that you should not rent from this guy. Landlord/tenant relations can be difficult even when all parties are completely sane and when the landlord does not live on the property. This sounds like it could be really hellish.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 2:41 PM on October 25, 2013

Very creepy. Sounds to me like you dodged a bullet.
posted by rue72 at 2:43 PM on October 25, 2013

Eh, you didn't overreact, but some of the other posters in this thread have done so. I'd rent from him in a second, but I am a weird guy from a long line of weird guys. He's probably just One Of Us. But if someone makes you uncomfortable, whether your reaction is appropriate or not, you don't want that person as your neighbor. Home should feel like home.

Doubting his sanity is over the top. Assuming that he wants his "snake" to "get lost" is also over the top. But deciding not to live there because he creeped you out is totally rational.

Cheers,
Another Weird Guy
posted by BrunoLatourFanclub at 2:44 PM on October 25, 2013 [11 favorites]

I would assume he's awkward -- not necessarily creepy. Why not call the offered "personal references and previous tenant contacts"? You risk nothing by asking them what they think if him as a landlord.
posted by Houstonian at 2:56 PM on October 25, 2013

No way! Even before the weird texts, it's a huge red flag that he's disappointed that his current tenant doesn't "hang out" with him. Do you want to hang with this guy? Probably not. Keep looking!
posted by katypickle at 2:57 PM on October 25, 2013 [5 favorites]

Yikes. I'm apparently not up on "pet snake" code but even without that the rest of it is sufficient to render a verdict: NO.
posted by HotToddy at 2:58 PM on October 25, 2013 [3 favorites]

Best answer: Agree with others. I read this as: he is lonely and wants to use you to fill the gap. Broadcasting loud and clear that he will not respect your personal boundaries as a tenant, that he considers your future home to be part of a space that is shared with him. Also, the 'go wait six days I might have someone better' again shows that he is not seeing you as a person with their own needs but rather someone who can meet his. It might be possible to make this situation work, but having a landlord with boundary issues living in the same house is likely to create a lot of stress and drama in your life and might take away from that safe feeling we all like to have in our homes.
posted by PercussivePaul at 3:02 PM on October 25, 2013 [26 favorites]

I know the market here is tight* - don't want to make you feel worse, but four places is *nothing* right now - but oh god you really dodged a bullet on this one. Keep looking and don't feel bad about passing on this one.

*huge understatement
posted by rtha at 3:02 PM on October 25, 2013 [1 favorite]

I completely agree with the previous posts. Do not take this apartment. The landlord sounds very odd indeed from your post it sounds like he wants someone he can "hang with"- like he's looking for a friend and it could get really akward as you'd be in such close proximity if you didn't want to hang out. Don't feel bad and look for something else. We all need a home to relax and chill out in at the end of a hard days work- not to feel anxious about a weird landlord potentially popping in for a chat.
posted by Mrs T at 3:17 PM on October 25, 2013 [2 favorites]

I live in a house next door to an overly extroverted, boundary-blurring neighbor, and it annoys me on almost a daily basis. imagining the same in an attached place, with the boundary-blurrer in a position of power/entitlement as the property owner and your landlord... oh god. no way. you deserve to feel 100% comfortable in your home.
posted by changeling at 3:17 PM on October 25, 2013 [4 favorites]

I would be inclined to say, "Yes, it did scare me off."
posted by rhizome at 3:21 PM on October 25, 2013 [4 favorites]

If it's slightly awkward when you're not living together, imagine how it will be when you are!

(please find somewhere else)
posted by heyjude at 3:39 PM on October 25, 2013 [3 favorites]

The comment about the previous tenant, a young woman, not wanting to hang out is quite concerning. Combined with the weird texts no way would I rent from this man. You did good listening to your gut instinct about this guy. Hope you find a safe place to land soon.
posted by wildflower at 3:42 PM on October 25, 2013 [8 favorites]

Please don't rent this place. You'll be uncomfortable (at the very least) the entire time. Ugh.
posted by Salamander at 3:44 PM on October 25, 2013 [1 favorite]

Doubting his sanity is over the top. Assuming that he wants his "snake" to "get lost" is also over the top.

His sanity, maybe. The other thing, I wouldn't be surprised.
posted by stoneandstar at 3:49 PM on October 25, 2013 [2 favorites]

I live in the Bay and know how incredibly tough the housing market is here right now, but I would still suggest you keep looking.
posted by needs more cowbell at 3:51 PM on October 25, 2013

I would be hesitant and try to contact the current tenant to ask her why she is moving and if this cat is as weird and insane as he appears.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 3:51 PM on October 25, 2013 [1 favorite]

Always listen to your gut when it comes to a landlord living in the same property. I ignored it once and damn did I end up with a first-class creeper... luckily more of creeper than an actor. Still. If you've got the squicks, steer clear.
posted by L'Estrange Fruit at 4:04 PM on October 25, 2013

In a similar situation, I phoned the departing tennant who confirmed my suspicion that the landlady was a nightmare.
posted by Jode at 4:15 PM on October 25, 2013

WTF? Run, this is bizarre, and NOT a situation you want to find yourself entangled in.

Go with your gut instinct- don't second-guess that when you're talking about where you will live. How can you live happily if your home is a source of stress?
posted by windykites at 4:45 PM on October 25, 2013

Lemme get this right.... this dude
*is retired.... so he can be around 24/7;
*lives on-site.... so he IS around, 24/7;
*is making weird/creepy boundary-crossing jokes well before you even sign a lease.... you KNOW this would only get worse as time goes on & he gets even more comfortable with you.
*and finally, he'd have keys & access to your apartment, as well as easy observation of when you arrive or leave or have guests.... um, NO.

If you move into this apartment, it's a pretty good bet that at least one of your future askmefi questions will be some version of either "how do I break a lease with my creepy landlord?", "my creepy landlord is always coming into my apartment unannounced", or "I just found a hidden video camera my creepy landlord installed in my apartment".

Run.
posted by easily confused at 4:46 PM on October 25, 2013 [8 favorites]

Did I overreact? Given the insanely tight housing market and my increasing desperation to find something, should I suck it up and (assuming he's still willing to rent to me), move into a slightly awkward situation?

No, you did not overreact at all. Your gut instinct was spot-on.

One of the milder criticisms you could make of his behavior was that it was unprofessional. You were trying to set up a business relationship with him and he did not behave in a respectful or appropriate manner. You know that old cliche about the importance of making a good first impression? As I've gotten older, I've found that there's an awful lot of wisdom in these old chestnuts. The guy made a creepy, off-putting impression that alienated you. I'll go out on a limb here and state that I am damn sure that if I, a bulky forty-something male, had approached him with an offer of tenancy, he wouldn't be pulling this cute shit.

Don't reward disrespect. And don't make important decisions on the basis of desperation, real or imagined.
posted by jason's_planet at 5:08 PM on October 25, 2013 [11 favorites]

Him: Did I tell you I had a pet snake that lives in the apartment that keeps hiding out?
Him: (that was a humor test)

I wouldn't rent from someone for saying this alone to me. He's pretty much putting you on notice that he can say whatever weird and creepy shit he wants and if you don't like it, it will be your fault for "failing the humor test." If someone tells you right up front that they are "testing" you I think it's usually a good idea to fail the test right away.
posted by cairdeas at 5:09 PM on October 25, 2013 [20 favorites]

I did not even finish your question before I went "Ahhhhhh!" Run. Don't do it! The times that I have ignored landlord weirdness I have lived to really, really regret it. A variation on the ol' Mefi staple: If someone tells you that they are a weirdo, believe them.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 5:52 PM on October 25, 2013 [5 favorites]

Maybe, if the apartment is free and you have an exhibitionistic streak. You don't and it isn't? Nix, nix, nix.
posted by Scram at 5:53 PM on October 25, 2013 [1 favorite]

I'm sorry to tell you this -- applying for 4 apartments isn't significant in San Francisco. Any rental unit that's a good value probably has plenty of interest from prospective tenants. And with tenants' rights so strictly enforced, landlords are exceptionally wary and end up scrutinizing everyone who's willing to move in.

As to this guy who sent you the texts, I find it ridiculous that he's asking you to help him devise a "personality test" to screen tenants. And hang out with him? Fuck no. He's probably noHe may not be crazy, but being a flake is damning enough. It's easy to find yourself wondering if you're too critical when searching for a place is such a chore, but try to accept that it's going to take a while.

One good thing about this town is that flaky people aren't inhibited about showing that side of themselves. Trust your instincts. And don't be shy about making sure the sane and reasonable ones know about all the reasons you'd be a good tenant.
posted by wryly at 7:06 PM on October 25, 2013

You did not overreact. Don't second-guess your gut feeling about this situation.

Also, I 100% think that the snake in question is a trouser snake. So, good call on not taking the apartment.
posted by Aquifer at 7:32 PM on October 25, 2013

As soon as I saw this

A few things seemed a little weird: at one point he said "I'm really nervous," with a nervous laugh (apropos of nothing); he also implied that he was disappointed the current tenant (like me, a young woman) didn't want to spend time hanging out with him.

I was like, yeah, no fucking WAY.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 7:32 PM on October 25, 2013 [3 favorites]

For the record, I don't think the snake is an intentional metaphor for his penis! I just think that the fact that he's texting you all cute (huhuhuh girls afraid of snakes) is a pretty reliable indicator that he wants to have sex with you, and he may try to advance that agenda.
posted by stoneandstar at 7:54 PM on October 25, 2013 [4 favorites]

You have a good gut, and you went with it. Well done. Im a 42 year old man and your description threw up tons of red flags that would stop me living there!
posted by davejay at 9:12 PM on October 25, 2013 [2 favorites]

I think I have some insight on this particular subject. First of all, I'm a boundary tester. Not exactly in the way this landlord is, but I might say something slightly humorous or unexpected when first meeting someone to kind of feel them out. But honestly, I am totally aware that I do this, and do not act this way in a professional context. If he apologized and followed up with some normal talk, that's probably a good sign that you're not dealing with a total lunatic. Sounds like he's a little too chummy with the tenants.

But here's the more important anecdote. I love my apartment but my landlord is a fucking handful. I'm a great tenant. When my neighbors don't pay their rent on time, I hear crazy arguments. At one point, under the premise that we were friendly, he would walk into my apartment and sit on my couch and talk to me about what a beautiful apartment he gave me and say things like "don't get married" and tell me how much of a bitch his wife was. Then, because of his slight disability, if he had a question for me, instead of walking up the stairs to my apartment, he would yell my name from the driveway.

So after enduring this for far too long I basically checked him in a way that wasn't particularly offensive but it was extremely direct. I have a tendency to underreport how I feel about certain things that offend me, out of a fear that I might cause tension if I speak up. Anyway, I told him he can yell at anyone else he wants in his complex, but I fucking pay my rent on time and I'm not going to stand for that shit. And since then, everything's been great. I even help him carry his groceries occasionally. He even asked me to look over the complex while he was gone having some surgery.

So while it's extremely difficult to tell you what to do, there may be nothing lost if you have a really frank conversation with this person about what your expectations are. And who knows, maybe you'll make a friend that will fully respect your private space, even if for him it's an exception. You're paying thousands of dollars to live there every year, so his slightly off-color remarks can go take a fucking hike.

Aside from that, I revert to some old advice I've given, which is "just because you see a red flag doesn't mean a parade's coming." This person is letting you know who they are, and it's just a matter of accepting it.
posted by phaedon at 9:15 PM on October 25, 2013 [1 favorite]

I used to rent from a sweet older couple who lived on the same property as the rental unit. While I cannot imagine kinder, more generous landlords, they pushed me to the brink of sanity because they wanted me to hang out with them on a daily basis and did not have a strong sense of boundaries. Dodging their advances really wore me down, and that was a situation where I genuinely liked these people and was comfortable with them. If they had been even slightly creepy it would have been so much worse.

Don't rent from this guy.
posted by corey flood at 11:11 PM on October 25, 2013 [3 favorites]

We rented in the Bay Area during a landlord's market. Still we decided some places weren't for us. Even so we ended up with landlord who carefully ensured we didn't have their home address and who sold the place out from under us. A red flag like this would have sent us running. (Needy is an undesirable quality in a landlord, even if the snake is a lovely corn snake.)
posted by gingerest at 3:36 AM on October 26, 2013

I would not rent from this person unless I was desperate.

I wouldn't rent from this person even if I were desperate. And I have been desperate, and three times have gotten into hellacious living situations that took A LOT of time and money to get out of.

One of two things is going to happen: he'll continue being a creep, and you'll continue to feel creeped out, or he'll tone it down, and you'll be living with that little piece of your brain that just never knows. This is not conducive to a healthy or sane living situation.

He's already made it very clear that he doesn't respect your boundaries.
posted by Occam's Aftershave at 4:47 AM on October 26, 2013 [4 favorites]

Just for perspective - I interpreted the pet snake as a literal pet snake that probably does get out of its cage, AND that Creeper McCreeperson would be coming in to YOUR apartment at any time, whether you are there or not, to "look for his snake". I had visions of him pawing through your underwear drawer. So, not a penis, but still creepy. Do not rent.
posted by CathyG at 7:02 AM on October 26, 2013 [1 favorite]

Creepy. You made the right call to move on; stick with it.
posted by J. Wilson at 7:14 AM on October 26, 2013

This life-long renter avoids apartments with even resident managers -- when actual owners are on the premises, it's always a problem until they go away; living under one sounds particularly onerous to me. And he's retired? He'd constantly be in your shit.

Sorry you're having trouble finding a place, it's my impression that now is actually a better time for looking than a year or two ago -- unlike then, now I see 'For Rent' signs posted in my own Bay Area neighborhood.
posted by Rash at 4:37 PM on October 26, 2013

Guy sounds very lonely. Definitely socially awkward at best; retarded or demented at worst. No denying the symbolism of the snake, tho'. Not, at least, in this mentally deranged, puritanical country.
Too bad there isn't an Angieslist of such landlords. Worded diplomatically, one's warning to others, couched in carefully crafted opinion terms could save many from monumental grief.
By all means, heed the hive mind.
posted by girdyerloins at 6:42 PM on October 26, 2013

He barely knew you, and only in a commercial context and he was already sending you multiple "humorous" texts? Think how bad it would get with him around constantly. You do not want to be one of this guy's main social interactions.
posted by spaltavian at 9:35 PM on October 27, 2013