Integrative oncology? Does that mean it involves calculus?
October 7, 2013 9:33 AM   Subscribe

Fucking integrative oncology: How does it work? I have questions about integrative oncology and whether it's a valid area of research and treatment or the shiny new woo-woo thing dressed up with medical-sounding words.

So, I have a friend who has an unpleasant uterine leiomyosarcoma cancer with associated other unwelcome hangers-on. She is currently being treated by some wonderful experts, but at this point she's wondering if she's running out of useful expertise from them. She's looking around to see what else might be helpful. There's a phrase being bandied about, "integrative oncology", that appears to involve careful nutrition to help beef up the immune system and otherwise help the body be nice to the healthy tissue while doctors are irradiating and poisoning the cancerous tissue.

Is there anything legit in this, or is it still exploratory? Particularly with regard to patients with unusual sarcomas? Last I checked, there weren't any really good studies on whether changes in nutrition during cancer treatments have an effect on results, and the ones there were tended to be observational rather than anything with a control group type setup. She's in Boston, so if there are folks doing good work with this closer to Boston, better, but travel isn't out of the question.
NB: No, she's not looking to abandon the world of evidence-based medicine. Also, it really is for a friend, as I remain cancer-free afaik.
posted by rmd1023 to Health & Fitness (21 answers total) 1 user marked this as a favorite
 
I have no idea, first of all.

But second of all, yes: dietary changes can definitely improve energy, reduce stress, improve sleep. And those things can make a big difference as you're going through chemo and living with the drain of side effects.

I had a doctor put me on a crazy restrictive diet (no sugar, wheat, raw food, caffeine) and I didn't last very long, but I did stick to some things (I consume way, way less caffeine and alcohol now, and a vary the carbs I eat so my diet isn't all pasta and wheat bread) and I think they've helped a lot with stress and insomnia. That's anecdotal, but I think there's good evidence about the links between diet and stress, and the links between stress and immunities, so it makes sense to me.

I realize you probably want more than some mefite saying "oh, yeah, totally legit!" but that's what I have.

PS. The diet wasn't about my cancer (which I don't have, so far as I know) but a different health concern.
posted by amandabee at 10:14 AM on October 7, 2013


Best answer: This is the shiny new woo-woo thing dressed up with medical-sounding words. Some people like the shiny new woo-woo things but integrative oncology is really just all the old woo-woo stuff dressed up in new cancer clothes.

Anyone who talks about 'boosting the immune system' without also talking about things like specific interleukins and interferons or cytokines and chemokines adapting the immune system to specific circumstances with references to the scientific literature is talking out of their ass and using words for things that they do not mean to bullshit you. Neither dietetics nor immunology work that way. If your friend is looking to improve their diet in relation to their cancer then that is beyond the scope of anyone who might call themselves a nutritionist, your friend is looking for a Dietician.

The difference between a nutritionist and a dietician is like the difference between a toothologist and a dentist. Dentists are licensed by the state and reviewed by their peers to ensure adequate ethics and competency, whereas a toothologist would not only be unvouched for but would be conspicuously so. Nutritionists are the same way, anyone can call themselves a nutritionist, all the way up to the hydrogen peroxide injecting and laser reikii ends of the woo spectrum, while a Registered Dietician is a physician who must complete years of graduate study in an accredited University, generally complete 900 hours of supervised practice, complete an appropriately ridiculously rigorous exam, and continue their education over their career in order to continue calling themselves a dietician.

You're friend is not looking for a buddy to make them feel better about their diet and is thus not looking for a nutritionist, they are looking for medical advice about how to best adapt their diet to their specific medical circumstance and would thus want a professional licensed physician who specializes in diet and knows what they are talking about - a registered dietician.

Especially in Boston, your friend's doctors are probably good for a referral to someone who does exactly this.
posted by Blasdelb at 10:15 AM on October 7, 2013 [16 favorites]


Just to add to the confusion, "integrated healthcare" is not the same thing. That term refers to delivery of healthcare with greater coordination and communication between the various healthcare professionals (such as GP, specialists, social worker, nurse practitioners) who are involved with a patient's care.

It's a term you'll (hopefully!) hear when talking about treatment for complex diseases like cancer because there should be coordination between all the players -- you may have acute symptoms to be treated, side-effects which create ongoing quality-of-life heath issues, other unrelated conditions that may or may not be somthing to take into consideration, etc.
posted by desuetude at 10:16 AM on October 7, 2013 [1 favorite]


(Oh, and that well-integrated healthcare team very well could involve nutritional counseling with a dietician. But this would be in full coordination/endorsed by her oncologist.)
posted by desuetude at 10:23 AM on October 7, 2013 [1 favorite]


Funnily enough, Science-Based medicine had a post on "integrative" cancer care just today.
posted by gaspode at 10:27 AM on October 7, 2013 [1 favorite]


Best answer: One of the problems is that a whole lot of things get lumped into "integrative medicine," some of which (acupuncture, nutrition) are probably genuinely beneficial for some conditions/symptoms and some of which (iridology) are just complete woo. How much of it isn't, and how to measure its effects, is still up in the air.

Your friend might benefit from looking into the Osher Center at Brigham and Women's--if there's any one doing evidence-based integrative medicine in Boston, it's those folks. (I don't have any direct clinical experience with these folks but have been to some talks by practitioners there and thought they seemed rational and realistic).
posted by The Elusive Architeuthis at 10:43 AM on October 7, 2013


Two folks very close to me pursued this (separately, fifteen years apart) by traveling to the Block Center in Chicago (which I think is pretty much the Mayo Clinic of integrative oncology -- we don't live anywhere near Chicago).

The Block Center as I understand it is run by MDs, not nutritionists or dieticians.

That said, what they came home with was mostly nutritional advice. A lot of it was observational (like the person with breast cancer came home with the instruction to eat miso, because women who eat Japanese diets get a lot less breast cancer than women who eat Western diets). Some of it was common sense, like eat more vegetables and less S'mores. Some of it was not obvious to me, like the one getting chemotherapy was told that she should quit drinking milk because it could interfere with the absorption of her chemo.

They also came home with prescriptions to do stuff. One was instructed to do gentle exercise. The other was supposed to do gentle exercise and also take a Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction class. (There is a crapton of evidence about MBSR, not that it does anything directly to cancer, but that it helps sick people cope and enhance their emotional resources to deal with their situation.)

The person who went more recently was hoping to get chemo chronotherapy, which is a newer thing supported by some new evidence. I don't understand it but it has something to do with timing chemotherapy based on a a person's pathology reports and/or their particular type of chemo medicine or something like that.

Both of them really liked the Block Center, and I believe the treatments were useful to both of them on an emotional level. As for whether the dietary changes and gentle exercise helped with the cancer treatment or not, I am not expert enough to say. But I would recommend the place to someone looking for that kind of treatment.

Good luck to your friend.
posted by feets at 11:15 AM on October 7, 2013


Nb I didn't mean to say the Block Center has anything to do with the Mayo Clinic, I just meant that the BC was nationally famous for what it does. Sorry if that was unclear.
posted by feets at 11:18 AM on October 7, 2013


Response by poster: feets: I've heard of the Block Center - the guy who runs it has some papers published about this but it looks like they're mostly or all published in journals where he's an editor which sets off my "O RLY" spidey sense.
posted by rmd1023 at 11:31 AM on October 7, 2013 [1 favorite]


anecdote:

my mom had cancer, and her doctor told her that integrating some "holistic" woo was fine with him if she wanted to, as long as he checked the things she wanted to do before she started them to make sure they weren't interfering with anything medical.

his thoughts were that, while he thinks it's all a bunch of hooey, it allows the patient to be pro-active and feel like they at least might be helping something, giving themselves something to do, to focus on while they're going through treatment. and a positive outlook and not feeling defeated is certainly not going to hurt anything.
posted by euphoria066 at 11:49 AM on October 7, 2013 [1 favorite]


Best answer: The answer to your question really depends on what is behind the term "integrative oncology." There are undoubtedly charlatans practicing woo under that label, but there appears to be a lot of solid evidence that things like mindfulness, stress-reduction and diet can have a positive impact on overall health. You may be doing your sick friend a disservice if you tell them that it's just "the shiny new woo-woo thing dressed up with medical-sounding words" without actually knowing what they are considering.

For example, Mass General Hospital recently published this interview with Donald Abrams on his integrative oncology practice. He's not suggesting that people trade in their chemo for homeopathy or that spinal adjustments can make tumors go away. It's much more sensible than that.

I found that interview via The Society for Integrative Oncology, which says it's mission is "to advance evidence-based, comprehensive, integrative healthcare to improve the lives of people affected by cancer." I don't have time to chase down the credentials of that organization further, but it should be easy enough to see if they are living up to their mission.

The circumstances of your friend's question are very serious. You should make sure that the information you gather for them is based on actual evidence about the programs and treatments they are considering, and not just on prejudices that people-on-the-internet have against practices from the 1970s.
posted by alms at 11:50 AM on October 7, 2013


Best answer: The Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center's Integrative Medicine Service has what looks like a very useful website. It describes studies they have ongoing, hosts a database of evidence-based information about herbs and supplements, and talks about what integrative oncology is.

It appears that they focus on symptom management and quality of life, in conjunction with conventional treatment of the cancer itself. Is this what your friend is looking for? Maybe not, but on the other hand, who wouldn't want an increased quality of life?
posted by snorkmaiden at 11:57 AM on October 7, 2013


Best answer: Ha! Well I'm not trying to hype Keith Block as a researcher, and what you describe would be less than 100% convincing for me as well. All I am really trying to say about his center is that my people (one with just a little cancer, the other with stage four) both liked the place and liked fulfilling Block's "prescriptions." It had a good emotional effect and improvement of quality of life for them, which is not nothing...

Here is a link about chronotherapy:
chronotherapy for cancer

Here is a gynecologic oncologist talking about good vs bogus "integrative" therapies in the treatment of gyno cancers (i.e. there is evidence for some of it and other stuff is hooey). Maybe you could write to this doc and ask for the paper. Or, ahem, I have heard that blasdelb who commented earlier in this thread can sometimes get his hands on academic journals:
integrative oncology in treatment of gyno cancers

2009 piece from Mayo Clinic, no abstract available:
emerging science of integrative oncology

My POV on eating healthy, exercising, meditating and timing your chemo is that it is unlikely to hurt cancer outcomes, may help, and is likely to have a beneficial psychological effect because that stuff (the first three, anyway) usually make people feel better, cancer diagnosis or not. I also think having a friendly doctor who pays a lot of attention to you is important psychologically, and potentially may even influence health outcomes (you can read about Ted Kaptchuk's recent placebo research at Harvard for evidence about that). In my experience docs interested in "integrative" therapies are often more outgoing and talk to you longer, so that may be a factor in my friends' liking of the Block Center too. It is nice to feel like your care provider is invested in you, and while I am sure their conventional oncologists cared as well, they both felt psychologically better cared for in Chicago.

It is kind of you to be looking out for your friend.
posted by feets at 12:08 PM on October 7, 2013 [1 favorite]


"I have heard that blasdelb who commented earlier in this thread can sometimes get his hands on academic journals"

I absolutely can. Just send me a memail with a link to the abstract, an email address I can send a PDF to, and a promise not to distribute that PDF further. (Meta)
posted by Blasdelb at 12:14 PM on October 7, 2013


Response by poster: feets: Understood, and thanks for the links.

Blasdelb: Thanks for the offer, although I think I've got sufficient sources already. (I work at a university and I know a couple of medical professionals and academic librarians.)
posted by rmd1023 at 12:20 PM on October 7, 2013


Best answer: Last I checked, there weren't any really good studies on whether changes in nutrition during cancer treatments have an effect on results, and the ones there were tended to be observational rather than anything with a control group type setup.

The University where I work recently had Thomas N. Seyfried, PhD speak to our students studying for medical careers, and the title of his talk was "Cancer as a Metabolic Disease". Dr. Seyfried researches and teaches at Boston College, and here is his bio (from the link):

"Our research program focuses on mechanisms by which metabolic therapy manages chronic diseases such as epilepsy, neurodegenerative lipid storage diseases, and cancer. The metabolic therapies include caloric restriction, fasting, and ketogenic diets. Our approach is based on the idea that compensatory metabolic pathways are capable of modifying the pathogenesis of complex diseases. Global shifts in metabolic environment can neutralize molecular pathology. In the case of cancer, these therapies target and kill tumor cells while enhancing the physiological health of normal cells. The neurochemical and genetic mechanisms of these phenomena are under investigation in novel animal models and include the processes of inflammation, cellular physiology, angiogenesis, and lipid biochemistry."

I am not a medical professional (at all), but the faculty and staff here certainly seem to believe that Dr. Seyfried's research is a) cutting edge, and b) promising. (And very definitely non-woo.)
posted by anastasiav at 12:21 PM on October 7, 2013


I believe that some or all of the hospitals in the Boston area assign a big team of folks -- oncologist, surgical oncologist, PA, PT, social worker, psychologist, RN, etc., etc. -- who work with each patient. Your friend shouldn't alienate them by bringing up this issue, and they may well be willing to investigate it with her.

I have a friend at the Brigham who I would trust with my life, and there are folks at the Faulkner who can probably walk on water.
posted by wenestvedt at 12:34 PM on October 7, 2013


Just my experience, obviously, but I will say ... I've got some.

I have been a patient for 12 years in an "integrative oncology" (their words, not mine) practice. I'm connected to (indebted to, in all ways) a very well-known NYC hospital.

There is nothing woo-woo about it, in the least. What it means for me is that I see my oncologist, and she has had a conversation with the breast surgeon about me. They connected me with an ob/gyn who understands my cancer history, and if I need a dermatologist, she gets that I've already had chemo twice, and guess what, they don't have to be convinced to write me a lymphatic massage prescription, or an Ativan prescription because I have a PET coming up, or have no problem calling the radiologist on the spot to ask the question I have when my results come in. Within a few taps, whatever doctor I'm visiting can see my history, and knows who in the system provided my care.

I realize I'm very lucky (in an unlucky way) to be in NYC with these resources and health insurance, by the way.
posted by thinkpiece at 12:45 PM on October 7, 2013 [1 favorite]


thinkpiece: "What it means for me is that I see my oncologist, and she has had a conversation with the breast surgeon about me. They connected me with an ob/gyn who understands my cancer history, and if I need a dermatologist, she gets that I've already had chemo twice, and guess what, they don't have to be convinced to write me a lymphatic massage prescription, or an Ativan prescription because I have a PET coming up, or have no problem calling the radiologist on the spot to ask the question I have when my results come in. Within a few taps, whatever doctor I'm visiting can see my history, and knows who in the system provided my care."

The terminology used is, perhaps intentionally, confusing. What thinkpiece is eloquently describing here is "integrated oncology", which is not the least bit woo and refers to care with a focus on coordinating between specialists from different fields to treat different systems within a patient simultaneously with specialist levels of knowledge. The "integrative oncology" being asked about in this question focuses specifically on integrating those kinds of care that lack either convincing evidence for their efficacy, a plausible model for explaining claimed effects, or more generally both into more standard form of medicine.
posted by Blasdelb at 1:25 PM on October 7, 2013 [1 favorite]


Interesting! I just re-looked at one of the cards to make sure my chemo brain did not betray me, and it is mos def integrative oncology.
posted by thinkpiece at 1:36 PM on October 7, 2013


I just re-looked at one of the cards to make sure my chemo brain did not betray me, and it is mos def integrative oncology

Your integrative oncology practice is also practicing integrated medicine. Which is considered the legit way to do it -- making sure that wellness and quality-of-life stuff is not going to cause any interference with prescribed meds/procedures.
posted by desuetude at 8:24 PM on October 7, 2013


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