Windows 8: Help me love it or leave it
August 2, 2013 5:39 AM Subscribe
I bought a Windows 8 machine last night. Help me decide to follow my impulse to return it to the store or live with it.
My old Win XP desktop died (hardrive & data ok). I found a good deal - $299 with coupon - for a Lenovo machine - fast intel processor, 4GB, 1 TB hard drive. It is fast and quiet but UGH! Windows 8.
Main problems: (1) built-in wireless connection to router is weak. I know this could be fixed by getting a USB connect but what a hassle (and more money). (2) Interface is awful for a non touchscreen desktop. They even messed up the screensaver! (Bubbles on a bright blue screen and not on desktop WTF) The whole thing is really not intutive.
Those who have had it a while - Do you learn to love it? Did external wirless help? Are there hidden benefits?
OR - should I return it and try to find a Windows 7 machine?
I'd like to be thrifty. I don't need a fancy gaming rig. I just want to use photoshop & lightroom without a lag and surf the web; maybe listen to Welcome to Night Vale podcast while I work.
Because of software I own (lightroom, photoshop, etc) this will need to be a windows OS. I use my chromebook & android tablet for a lot of other things and love them. For the purposes of this question, getting a a Mac is not an option. Also, please be gentle. It's been a very rough week.
My old Win XP desktop died (hardrive & data ok). I found a good deal - $299 with coupon - for a Lenovo machine - fast intel processor, 4GB, 1 TB hard drive. It is fast and quiet but UGH! Windows 8.
Main problems: (1) built-in wireless connection to router is weak. I know this could be fixed by getting a USB connect but what a hassle (and more money). (2) Interface is awful for a non touchscreen desktop. They even messed up the screensaver! (Bubbles on a bright blue screen and not on desktop WTF) The whole thing is really not intutive.
Those who have had it a while - Do you learn to love it? Did external wirless help? Are there hidden benefits?
OR - should I return it and try to find a Windows 7 machine?
I'd like to be thrifty. I don't need a fancy gaming rig. I just want to use photoshop & lightroom without a lag and surf the web; maybe listen to Welcome to Night Vale podcast while I work.
Because of software I own (lightroom, photoshop, etc) this will need to be a windows OS. I use my chromebook & android tablet for a lot of other things and love them. For the purposes of this question, getting a a Mac is not an option. Also, please be gentle. It's been a very rough week.
Best answer: The classic shell extension has an option to boot directly into the desktop. I almost never see the new UI and when I do win key + d brings me back to the desktop.
I believe many of classic shell's features are being added to the 8.1 service pack.
posted by phil at 5:48 AM on August 2, 2013 [5 favorites]
I believe many of classic shell's features are being added to the 8.1 service pack.
posted by phil at 5:48 AM on August 2, 2013 [5 favorites]
Best answer: Windows 8.1 will be released at the end of this month which will allow you to boot directly to the traditional desktop.
You'll also get a start button back (if this is important to you) but you won't actually get the start menu. This can be resolved by installing a start menu replacement.
I'm not sure how you can fix (1), sorry.
posted by mr_silver at 5:49 AM on August 2, 2013
You'll also get a start button back (if this is important to you) but you won't actually get the start menu. This can be resolved by installing a start menu replacement.
I'm not sure how you can fix (1), sorry.
posted by mr_silver at 5:49 AM on August 2, 2013
(Usually I am loathe to tell people to just Google stuff but here goes..........please don't take offense)
Google "make win 8 like XP" or "make win 8 like vista" etc. There are a whole slew of tutorials from simple changes to complete overhauls. It won't completely solve your issues, but you can soften the learning curve and frustration that comes with such a drastic jump (from XP to W8). The idea is not so much to completely abandon Win 8, but more to find those parts that work for you and be able to control where and when you want those features.
I would make recommendations, but I do not know your setup or needs. However, I am sure with a bit of research, you will find a solution that fits your situation as well as something you feel comfortable managing.
posted by lampshade at 5:50 AM on August 2, 2013 [1 favorite]
Google "make win 8 like XP" or "make win 8 like vista" etc. There are a whole slew of tutorials from simple changes to complete overhauls. It won't completely solve your issues, but you can soften the learning curve and frustration that comes with such a drastic jump (from XP to W8). The idea is not so much to completely abandon Win 8, but more to find those parts that work for you and be able to control where and when you want those features.
I would make recommendations, but I do not know your setup or needs. However, I am sure with a bit of research, you will find a solution that fits your situation as well as something you feel comfortable managing.
posted by lampshade at 5:50 AM on August 2, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I'd try changing your router's position or get a newer router for your wireless signal issues. Most laptops have enormous antennas along the screen bezel that should have no problem picking up wireless signals. How old is your router? I would never resort to getting a USB wifi card, those are so old-school.
You can totally change the screensaver! And everything else you don't like about it! Windows it really customizable when it comes down to it.
posted by dobi at 5:59 AM on August 2, 2013
You can totally change the screensaver! And everything else you don't like about it! Windows it really customizable when it comes down to it.
posted by dobi at 5:59 AM on August 2, 2013
Best answer: I haven't tried Windows 8 yet, but I've been successfully configuring every new Windows UI to look like Windows 2000 for the last ten years, and I'm sure it's still doable. If only it was as easy to make Macs look like System 7.
posted by pete_22 at 6:00 AM on August 2, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by pete_22 at 6:00 AM on August 2, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Which version of Windows 8 are you running? If "Standard" you are out of luck for downgrade rights, but if you have "Pro", you may have options.
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 6:02 AM on August 2, 2013
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 6:02 AM on August 2, 2013
Response by poster: Thanks so far. I promise I won't threadsit but I assure everyone I have Googled (I found the DL for the Start button; when I have internet connectivity robust enough to DL I will. That was how I discovered how bad the wirless was.)
I am looking for the expertise of Mefites over and beyond the Google and so asked for person experiences ("Those who have had it a while - Do you learn to love it? Did external wirless help? Are there hidden benefits?") and I listed my requirements. ("I just want to use photoshop & lightroom without a lag and surf the web; maybe listen to Welcome to Night Vale podcast while I work.")
Hope that clarification helps!
posted by pointystick at 6:07 AM on August 2, 2013
I am looking for the expertise of Mefites over and beyond the Google and so asked for person experiences ("Those who have had it a while - Do you learn to love it? Did external wirless help? Are there hidden benefits?") and I listed my requirements. ("I just want to use photoshop & lightroom without a lag and surf the web; maybe listen to Welcome to Night Vale podcast while I work.")
Hope that clarification helps!
posted by pointystick at 6:07 AM on August 2, 2013
Best answer: Start8 -- adds back the start button. (commercial software from Stardock)
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 6:11 AM on August 2, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 6:11 AM on August 2, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I have been running windows 8 for close to a year now. Installing classic shell was all it took for me to feel at home. After that all of my standard windows tweaks where the same as vista, etc.
I don't think your networking issues are OS related.
posted by phil at 6:14 AM on August 2, 2013 [1 favorite]
I don't think your networking issues are OS related.
posted by phil at 6:14 AM on August 2, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I love windows 8, it boots fast and runs well even on older machines. Not booting into the desktop is a pain but its super easy to fix. When you get to the start screen hold windows key & d, and boom desktop mode. It should take a day or so for this to become automatic.
Another common gripe is lack of a start menu. I recommend you try Launchy - a lightweight launcher app. Its donation-ware so you can try the full featured version for as long as you want and go back to give the author a few bucks if you feel its worthwhile.
The app indexes all of the applications on your computer, you open launchy with ctl-space start typing the name of the program and pressing enter to launch it. Once you get used to that the start menu seems cumbersome.
Anyway, I think you should stick with it.
posted by askmehow at 6:15 AM on August 2, 2013 [1 favorite]
Another common gripe is lack of a start menu. I recommend you try Launchy - a lightweight launcher app. Its donation-ware so you can try the full featured version for as long as you want and go back to give the author a few bucks if you feel its worthwhile.
The app indexes all of the applications on your computer, you open launchy with ctl-space start typing the name of the program and pressing enter to launch it. Once you get used to that the start menu seems cumbersome.
Anyway, I think you should stick with it.
posted by askmehow at 6:15 AM on August 2, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I got a Windows 8 machine at work and the first week or so was awful. Then I realized that the Fake Start Button thing that IT had put on my computer was the problem. It killed the functionality of the Windows key so I couldn't use the shortcuts and gestures.
After that was gone I have learned to love Windows 8. I mean, I mostly operate in the Desktop environment but I find Start to be great and easy to organize and navigate. Gestures are intuitive and helpful; I have stopped using a mouse (and cut down on my mouse use on my personal Windows 7 machine). Not booting to the desktop is trivial and pointless to change IMO.
I can see what they're doing and this would be convenient if I had a Windows phone, tablet, etc. And the shift to apps would be a lot better if they had more/better apps.
But I went from being frustrated to loving Windows 8. I would have Windows 8 on my home machine but I am not sure it would run it that well.
posted by mountmccabe at 6:20 AM on August 2, 2013 [1 favorite]
After that was gone I have learned to love Windows 8. I mean, I mostly operate in the Desktop environment but I find Start to be great and easy to organize and navigate. Gestures are intuitive and helpful; I have stopped using a mouse (and cut down on my mouse use on my personal Windows 7 machine). Not booting to the desktop is trivial and pointless to change IMO.
I can see what they're doing and this would be convenient if I had a Windows phone, tablet, etc. And the shift to apps would be a lot better if they had more/better apps.
But I went from being frustrated to loving Windows 8. I would have Windows 8 on my home machine but I am not sure it would run it that well.
posted by mountmccabe at 6:20 AM on August 2, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I agree with mountmccabe. Windows 8 is different, but if you look at the built in options, you can customize it to do what you want. It is a rare time when I don't have every program and app that I want right on the first page of the metro start screen. It's faster than the start menu. That, combined with pinning applications to the taskbar and a couple of desktop shortcuts, makes Windows 8 work just fine for me. (And yes, it's fast as hell. My little Atom tablet is faster than my high powered notebook in a lot of ways.)
The only downside is that the Metro apps aren't always great. They are fine for tablet use, but not for desktop use. Luckily, you can just make metro tiles that act as shortcuts to the desktop versions of applications.
Windows 8 isn't terribly intuitive, I agree. But if you spend a half hour figuring out what they are trying to do and learning some of the new ways to do things, it will pay off and things will start to make sense. (However, I don't think the Start menu was terribly intuitive when it first came out either. Its apparent intuitiveness is learned.)
As for the wireless, that isn't Windows' problem. It's probably bad hardware. That is a reason to return it.
posted by gjc at 7:03 AM on August 2, 2013 [1 favorite]
The only downside is that the Metro apps aren't always great. They are fine for tablet use, but not for desktop use. Luckily, you can just make metro tiles that act as shortcuts to the desktop versions of applications.
Windows 8 isn't terribly intuitive, I agree. But if you spend a half hour figuring out what they are trying to do and learning some of the new ways to do things, it will pay off and things will start to make sense. (However, I don't think the Start menu was terribly intuitive when it first came out either. Its apparent intuitiveness is learned.)
As for the wireless, that isn't Windows' problem. It's probably bad hardware. That is a reason to return it.
posted by gjc at 7:03 AM on August 2, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I have a win8 machine at work. I have a lenovo Yoga. I would not have gotten win8 without a touch interface. The best thing about win8 on this machine is that I can reach up and swipe to the left from the right side of the screen, and access search really fast. This has completely taken the place of the start menu for me. Anything I need to open, I can find with about a two character search.
If you can wait for 8.1 or download some of these hacks to get it to behave more like 7 you will be happier, I think. I cannot imagine using this outside of a touch interface.
FWIW I really like this Yoga - it flips around, I can use it as a tablet, and it makes reading things (even for work) really nice and easy. I can sit down with an RFP or Forrester research or whatever and just read, not sit at my desk for hours, or sit on a couch with my computer propped up. This has issues - the interface is not without its problems - but over all I'm liking it.
posted by Medieval Maven at 7:04 AM on August 2, 2013 [1 favorite]
If you can wait for 8.1 or download some of these hacks to get it to behave more like 7 you will be happier, I think. I cannot imagine using this outside of a touch interface.
FWIW I really like this Yoga - it flips around, I can use it as a tablet, and it makes reading things (even for work) really nice and easy. I can sit down with an RFP or Forrester research or whatever and just read, not sit at my desk for hours, or sit on a couch with my computer propped up. This has issues - the interface is not without its problems - but over all I'm liking it.
posted by Medieval Maven at 7:04 AM on August 2, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I am another one who uses Classic Shell mentioned earlier, it works great for me as I decided Windows 8 has too many functions located placed I didn't expect, and for my basic needs wasn't worth going through the learning curve for. In general though I like how fast Windows 8 boots up so Win 8 + free Classic Shell is better than Win 7 in my book.
posted by AuroraSky at 7:12 AM on August 2, 2013
posted by AuroraSky at 7:12 AM on August 2, 2013
Best answer: Windows 8 is great under the hood. It's faster and more efficient than 7. Everything that runs on 7 runs on 8.
The key to the new start menu is to rearrange, add, and remove items as you see fit. Live tiles struck me as a bit to ADD, so I either stopped their animations or removed them. I've yet to encounter a metro program I liked more than a real desktop program, so I won't comment too much on them, but their presence doesn't harm anything.
Also important to me was the realization that you can start typing while on the start screen in order to launch programs or open files. I use that functionality heavily, and have since it was introduced to Windows as part of the start menu. So instead of clicking on anything in Windows 8, 99% of the time I hit the windows key and type the first few letters of the program or file. It took me a while to discover this because there is no cursor or search box visible on the start screen until you start typing.
There are multiple start button replacements and straight to desktop options. Including 8.1, coming out soon, as has already been mentioned. I like boot to start screen, though. I've never/rarely not had what I wanted to open available on boot.
Hot corners are huge and welcome. There are five pixels that are fast to reach anywhere you are: the one under the mouse, and one of the corners. Just sling the cursor over and you're there. It's been long overdue to make them useful.
Aside from that, nothing has changed. The keyboard shortcuts remain the same, clicking and right clicking remain the same, and accessing menus inside programs remains the same. There is very little new interface to learn aside from gestures and a few small paradigm changes. Totally worth it.
No advice on the weak wireless adapter. It defeats the purpose to spend more money, but I've used power plugin ethernet adapters to send a physical connection to portions of an old house that didn't get a good wireless signal. They actually use the electrical wiring in your home to carry the signal, which I think is just plain fun. They run about $50 to $100.
posted by jsturgill at 7:38 AM on August 2, 2013 [1 favorite]
The key to the new start menu is to rearrange, add, and remove items as you see fit. Live tiles struck me as a bit to ADD, so I either stopped their animations or removed them. I've yet to encounter a metro program I liked more than a real desktop program, so I won't comment too much on them, but their presence doesn't harm anything.
Also important to me was the realization that you can start typing while on the start screen in order to launch programs or open files. I use that functionality heavily, and have since it was introduced to Windows as part of the start menu. So instead of clicking on anything in Windows 8, 99% of the time I hit the windows key and type the first few letters of the program or file. It took me a while to discover this because there is no cursor or search box visible on the start screen until you start typing.
There are multiple start button replacements and straight to desktop options. Including 8.1, coming out soon, as has already been mentioned. I like boot to start screen, though. I've never/rarely not had what I wanted to open available on boot.
Hot corners are huge and welcome. There are five pixels that are fast to reach anywhere you are: the one under the mouse, and one of the corners. Just sling the cursor over and you're there. It's been long overdue to make them useful.
Aside from that, nothing has changed. The keyboard shortcuts remain the same, clicking and right clicking remain the same, and accessing menus inside programs remains the same. There is very little new interface to learn aside from gestures and a few small paradigm changes. Totally worth it.
No advice on the weak wireless adapter. It defeats the purpose to spend more money, but I've used power plugin ethernet adapters to send a physical connection to portions of an old house that didn't get a good wireless signal. They actually use the electrical wiring in your home to carry the signal, which I think is just plain fun. They run about $50 to $100.
posted by jsturgill at 7:38 AM on August 2, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I've been running Win8 at home since March. Classic Shell was the first thing I installed, and like many others I rarely bother with the Metro interface. I am very happy with Windows 8. If your choice is between 7 or 8, you should stick with 8. Here are some of the benefits I've found:
. Startup is incredibly fast compared to previous version of Windows. The entire OS experience is a lot smoother.
. Skydrive is actually pretty great.
. Windows Explorer has grown a brain. They've added the Office ribbon bar, with intelligence. Click on a JPEG and the Picture Tools tab appears, otherwise it's hidden
. Going from XP you may not see this benefit, but trust me, the amount of OS security warnings has been dialed way down from 7.
. You can customize the lock screen to show things like unread messages, battery life.
. You can run some Metro apps in a neat split screen mode where most of the display is the app your working in but a small column can be your podcast player or something else that doesn't need a lot of room, like mail.
. The built in A/V and firewall are good enough that I don't feel the need for 3rd party protection
. The new task manager is really useful - it has good info that will help you troubleshoot your wifi issue.
. There are lots of other neat little features - run ISO's natively; drag windows to the side so they snap to half your monitor; file copy has a details button that shows a graph of current transfer speed and average speed; file copy also has a pause button that is surprisingly useful.
I will say that 4GB is not a lot of memory. I don't use full Photoshop, but I have Elements and it still runs quite slowly on my 12GB quad core, so you may want to run some of your higher end work through Photoshop to make sure it performs ok for you.
posted by IanMorr at 7:59 AM on August 2, 2013 [1 favorite]
. Startup is incredibly fast compared to previous version of Windows. The entire OS experience is a lot smoother.
. Skydrive is actually pretty great.
. Windows Explorer has grown a brain. They've added the Office ribbon bar, with intelligence. Click on a JPEG and the Picture Tools tab appears, otherwise it's hidden
. Going from XP you may not see this benefit, but trust me, the amount of OS security warnings has been dialed way down from 7.
. You can customize the lock screen to show things like unread messages, battery life.
. You can run some Metro apps in a neat split screen mode where most of the display is the app your working in but a small column can be your podcast player or something else that doesn't need a lot of room, like mail.
. The built in A/V and firewall are good enough that I don't feel the need for 3rd party protection
. The new task manager is really useful - it has good info that will help you troubleshoot your wifi issue.
. There are lots of other neat little features - run ISO's natively; drag windows to the side so they snap to half your monitor; file copy has a details button that shows a graph of current transfer speed and average speed; file copy also has a pause button that is surprisingly useful.
I will say that 4GB is not a lot of memory. I don't use full Photoshop, but I have Elements and it still runs quite slowly on my 12GB quad core, so you may want to run some of your higher end work through Photoshop to make sure it performs ok for you.
posted by IanMorr at 7:59 AM on August 2, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: "Who moved my cheese?" was a very helpful introduction to Windows 8. I've been using it for three months now and recommend persevering.
As for the wireless connection, I'd take it back to have it fixed or replaced.
posted by zinon at 9:25 AM on August 2, 2013 [1 favorite]
As for the wireless connection, I'd take it back to have it fixed or replaced.
posted by zinon at 9:25 AM on August 2, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I'll also chime in with, the 8.1 service pack will solve the interface issues
if you are using a wireless connection as your primary internet connection, I recommend buying this
when you add a better antenna and power amplification, your wireless woes go away.
posted by bobdow at 10:22 AM on August 2, 2013
if you are using a wireless connection as your primary internet connection, I recommend buying this
when you add a better antenna and power amplification, your wireless woes go away.
posted by bobdow at 10:22 AM on August 2, 2013
Response by poster: Thanks, y'all - many helpful suggestions!
I did get a cheap $30 usb wireless stick since the router placement & type is another kettle of fish - - I live in a big, 100 year old duplex (my friend & landlord is in the other apt.) and we have to put the router where 4 of us in 2 apartments can get signal. The $30 stick solved the problem.
Also, thanks for the boot to desktop (yay!) and the info on 8.1 - I will wait for that and maybe get a start button in the meantime.
Photoshop works just fine too.
posted by pointystick at 8:19 AM on August 4, 2013
I did get a cheap $30 usb wireless stick since the router placement & type is another kettle of fish - - I live in a big, 100 year old duplex (my friend & landlord is in the other apt.) and we have to put the router where 4 of us in 2 apartments can get signal. The $30 stick solved the problem.
Also, thanks for the boot to desktop (yay!) and the info on 8.1 - I will wait for that and maybe get a start button in the meantime.
Photoshop works just fine too.
posted by pointystick at 8:19 AM on August 4, 2013
This thread is closed to new comments.
As to the wireless issue, that may be an issue you need to deal with. It's likely hardware, not software, and even if it is software it's not something you're likely to be able to do anything about. That's more a "this particular Windows 8 box" rather than "Windows 8 in general".
posted by valkyryn at 5:43 AM on August 2, 2013