Someone wants to take legal action over a domain I own
July 8, 2013 4:48 AM Subscribe
A former friend is trying to take legal action against me over a website we started together. He came up with the name for it, but the domain is under my name and I maintain the website. Does he have a leg to stand on?
Hi,
A couple of years ago, I started a website with a friend. It was a hobby website of various urban photography (photographs we each took), and still has no intention of ever being a business. Initially, he came up with the name and I started the website. He paid for half of the domain registration. A year later, the domain registration expired, and since he wasn't contributing much anymore, I registered the domain in my name just to keep it going. I also started an Instagram account associated with the website. We have since had a disagreement and he stole the Instagram account that I created from me and is trying to take legal action against me to get the URL, which is registered in my name. I have filed a "hacked account" claim with Instagram since I started that account, so I can regain ownership of it, but he still wants to take legal action to get ownership of both. Should I be worried about losing these?
Hi,
A couple of years ago, I started a website with a friend. It was a hobby website of various urban photography (photographs we each took), and still has no intention of ever being a business. Initially, he came up with the name and I started the website. He paid for half of the domain registration. A year later, the domain registration expired, and since he wasn't contributing much anymore, I registered the domain in my name just to keep it going. I also started an Instagram account associated with the website. We have since had a disagreement and he stole the Instagram account that I created from me and is trying to take legal action against me to get the URL, which is registered in my name. I have filed a "hacked account" claim with Instagram since I started that account, so I can regain ownership of it, but he still wants to take legal action to get ownership of both. Should I be worried about losing these?
Does he have a leg to stand on?
The only possible way you can get accurate advice about this is to bring all of the facts and supporting documents to an attorney licensed in your jurisdiction.
But one thing I can tell you is that this is likely to have as much to do with the agreement between the two of you as it does with any point of law or regulation as such. The law doesn't really have much to say about the relationships between parties to a contract, and that includes partnership-type arrangements. You're not allowed to defraud people, but beyond, that the parties can agree to pretty much anything they like, as long as it's otherwise legal (e.g., you can't make a valid contract for distributing heroin, etc.).
Which is exactly why you need actual legal advice. The outcome of this could absolutely go either way depending on the facts of your arrangement, and you have not provided--and should not provide!--sufficient details to enable anyone to give you an answer that is even plausibly accurate.
So what you want to do is contact your local bar association and/or small business development authority. You can find them with Google. Either or both is likely to have a system whereby you (either as a small business owner in particular or just someone in need of an attorney in general) can be referred to a local attorney for a consultation which will either be free or cheap. Such referral systems exist for exactly this sort of thing. Make use of 'em.
posted by valkyryn at 5:34 AM on July 8, 2013 [5 favorites]
The only possible way you can get accurate advice about this is to bring all of the facts and supporting documents to an attorney licensed in your jurisdiction.
But one thing I can tell you is that this is likely to have as much to do with the agreement between the two of you as it does with any point of law or regulation as such. The law doesn't really have much to say about the relationships between parties to a contract, and that includes partnership-type arrangements. You're not allowed to defraud people, but beyond, that the parties can agree to pretty much anything they like, as long as it's otherwise legal (e.g., you can't make a valid contract for distributing heroin, etc.).
Which is exactly why you need actual legal advice. The outcome of this could absolutely go either way depending on the facts of your arrangement, and you have not provided--and should not provide!--sufficient details to enable anyone to give you an answer that is even plausibly accurate.
So what you want to do is contact your local bar association and/or small business development authority. You can find them with Google. Either or both is likely to have a system whereby you (either as a small business owner in particular or just someone in need of an attorney in general) can be referred to a local attorney for a consultation which will either be free or cheap. Such referral systems exist for exactly this sort of thing. Make use of 'em.
posted by valkyryn at 5:34 AM on July 8, 2013 [5 favorites]
Whether or not the site makes money is irrelevant. As is who paid for it. There's a lot of legal aspects and ICANN governance rules. An infringing site can be seized. Slam dunks are often not slam dunks. You would think a site like brucespringsteen.com would be owned by Bruce Springsteen, but you would be wrong. You would also think Bruce Springsteen could sue to get this site, but again, you would be wrong. This has nothing to do with whether or not the site makes money, nor who registered it, and everything to do with whether or not people would confuse it with an official Bruce Springsteen site (it seems down right now, but you can verify that Springsteen doesn't own it by the whois data).
My lawyer has successfully fought off challenges to website seizures (against Glenn Beck). He's also seized some from harnessers.
valkyryn has it. You need to hire a lawyer if you intend to keep the site. In the end you may have to make a legal settlement to keep it or it may be something you end up paying way more to keep than it's worth.
Me? I'd probably register a new domain, put up a redirect on the old, allow this guy to have the site, and not bother. If it's a hobby site who really cares?
posted by cjorgensen at 6:08 AM on July 8, 2013
My lawyer has successfully fought off challenges to website seizures (against Glenn Beck). He's also seized some from harnessers.
valkyryn has it. You need to hire a lawyer if you intend to keep the site. In the end you may have to make a legal settlement to keep it or it may be something you end up paying way more to keep than it's worth.
Me? I'd probably register a new domain, put up a redirect on the old, allow this guy to have the site, and not bother. If it's a hobby site who really cares?
posted by cjorgensen at 6:08 AM on July 8, 2013
Response by poster: thanks for your fast replies! i should add that 1). we do not have any sort of written agreement because this is not a business and no money stands to be made from it 2). i'm not looking for an end all, be all answer, just general thoughts/knowledge pertaining to a situation like this.
posted by TreborDuncan at 6:30 AM on July 8, 2013
posted by TreborDuncan at 6:30 AM on July 8, 2013
we do not have any sort of written agreement because this is not a business and no money stands to be made from it
Neither of those things are relevant. Written agreements are memorializations of contracts, not contracts themselves. Oral agreements can be perfectly valid contracts, and even when there is a written document, the contract itself consists of the agreement between the parties, not the writing. If you had an arrangement with this guy, you may have a contract. The fact that the terms aren't written down makes the scope of the agreement hard to prove, but no less real.
Likewise, whether or not there's money involved is irrelevant, except that it may simply not be worth it to fight.
i'm not looking for an end all, be all answer, just general thoughts/knowledge pertaining to a situation like this.
The general thoughts/knowledge pertaining to this is that it's an incredibly fact-sensitive analysis which can only be opined upon by a licensed attorney in full possession of the facts. Anyone else is just guessing.
posted by valkyryn at 6:34 AM on July 8, 2013 [3 favorites]
Neither of those things are relevant. Written agreements are memorializations of contracts, not contracts themselves. Oral agreements can be perfectly valid contracts, and even when there is a written document, the contract itself consists of the agreement between the parties, not the writing. If you had an arrangement with this guy, you may have a contract. The fact that the terms aren't written down makes the scope of the agreement hard to prove, but no less real.
Likewise, whether or not there's money involved is irrelevant, except that it may simply not be worth it to fight.
i'm not looking for an end all, be all answer, just general thoughts/knowledge pertaining to a situation like this.
The general thoughts/knowledge pertaining to this is that it's an incredibly fact-sensitive analysis which can only be opined upon by a licensed attorney in full possession of the facts. Anyone else is just guessing.
posted by valkyryn at 6:34 AM on July 8, 2013 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: @valkyryn - Thanks. Yeah, we didn't have a verbal agreement regarding the purpose of the site either, it's just something we've been doing. Either way, thanks for the replies. Was basically looking for some general thoughts on the matter, and I got them, so I appreciate it.
posted by TreborDuncan at 6:45 AM on July 8, 2013
posted by TreborDuncan at 6:45 AM on July 8, 2013
I don't really see the basis of his case (IANAL); but legal action over this seems a really bad idea and I'd hope a responsible lawyer would talk your former friend (and/or you) out of wasting time and money.
It doesn't seem to be about the actual domain name, more about expressing his bitter disappointment at the way he perceives you to have treated him. I'd write him a nice apology, deserved or not, and see if you can take the heat out of the situation.
Other than that cjorgensen's final paragraph makes an awful lot of sense to me.
posted by Segundus at 7:36 AM on July 8, 2013
It doesn't seem to be about the actual domain name, more about expressing his bitter disappointment at the way he perceives you to have treated him. I'd write him a nice apology, deserved or not, and see if you can take the heat out of the situation.
Other than that cjorgensen's final paragraph makes an awful lot of sense to me.
posted by Segundus at 7:36 AM on July 8, 2013
Response by poster: @segundus yeah, i tried to smooth things over and he came back threatening legal action. it's a hobby site with a decent amount of followers and a good amount of followers on the instagram that goes along with the site. i've put in a lot of work on both of them, so i'm iffy about setting up a new domain only because of the fan base for the site that we have.
thanks again for the input guys.
posted by TreborDuncan at 8:13 AM on July 8, 2013
thanks again for the input guys.
posted by TreborDuncan at 8:13 AM on July 8, 2013
I buy and sell domains to make extra money. IAMYDBAS. I am also not an attorney.
My dividing line is, when an attorney calls me and starts talking brand dilution, I fold like a cheap card table. You will not win that battle.
If it's just someone saying, "HAAAY I had that thought in my hay-uhd FIRST" I ignore it until I get a letter or phone call from an attorney. If the contact to you came from him (and not his attorney) and he said he says he's gonna sue, let him try. The cost of an attorney is likely going to be more than the value of the domain.
posted by brownrd at 11:25 AM on July 8, 2013 [1 favorite]
My dividing line is, when an attorney calls me and starts talking brand dilution, I fold like a cheap card table. You will not win that battle.
If it's just someone saying, "HAAAY I had that thought in my hay-uhd FIRST" I ignore it until I get a letter or phone call from an attorney. If the contact to you came from him (and not his attorney) and he said he says he's gonna sue, let him try. The cost of an attorney is likely going to be more than the value of the domain.
posted by brownrd at 11:25 AM on July 8, 2013 [1 favorite]
i tried to smooth things over and he came back threatening legal action.
I bet you a nickel that said legal action never materializes. Just ignore him. If he turns out to be nutty enough to actually hire a lawyer to sue you over a no-profit hobby site, then pick a new domain name, notify your followers, and move the site.
posted by ook at 7:44 AM on July 9, 2013 [2 favorites]
I bet you a nickel that said legal action never materializes. Just ignore him. If he turns out to be nutty enough to actually hire a lawyer to sue you over a no-profit hobby site, then pick a new domain name, notify your followers, and move the site.
posted by ook at 7:44 AM on July 9, 2013 [2 favorites]
(But don't move his photos to the new site; yours only. His own shots he has a totally legitimate claim to.)
posted by ook at 7:46 AM on July 9, 2013
posted by ook at 7:46 AM on July 9, 2013
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If it comes to it, there are lawyers who specialize in cases like these; I work with one and can send you his email if you'd like.
posted by third word on a random page at 5:16 AM on July 8, 2013