Giving my kid a positive and realistic message about her body
June 21, 2013 1:11 PM Subscribe
My daughter is 10 and in the midst of puberty. She has noticeable armpit hair. She's also fairly naive/unaware of standard social stuff - not clued in to what's "cool" etc. She also gets teased about being weird pretty regularly. She's also going to sleepaway camp for the first time this summer, and will be wearing a bathing suit a lot...
So my concern is this: I think kids at sleepaway camp are likely to tease her about her armpit hair.
But, I'm a feminist*, have armpit hair myself, and don't want to introduce the idea that there's something wrong with this part of her body which she has expressed zero anxiety or concern about. I don't want to give her a message that there's anything wrong with her armpit hair, but I don't want to leave her with no options, getting teased for two weeks with no option to, for example, shave.
I'm trying to figure out if I should talk to her about it before hand, and if so how.
For background, she knows women who do and don't shave. She's also had good puberty education and read a lot of puberty books including one that specifically explains options around shaving and not shaving armpits. She has expressed no desire to shave and shows her armpits at swim class for example.
This is a fairly hippy, Northern California sleepaway camp, but these are preteen girls (and boys) we're talking about...
*I know lots of feminists who shave their armpits and more power to them! I support my daughter if she chooses to shave or not shave. My concern is with reinforcing the social compulsion to shave.
So my concern is this: I think kids at sleepaway camp are likely to tease her about her armpit hair.
But, I'm a feminist*, have armpit hair myself, and don't want to introduce the idea that there's something wrong with this part of her body which she has expressed zero anxiety or concern about. I don't want to give her a message that there's anything wrong with her armpit hair, but I don't want to leave her with no options, getting teased for two weeks with no option to, for example, shave.
I'm trying to figure out if I should talk to her about it before hand, and if so how.
For background, she knows women who do and don't shave. She's also had good puberty education and read a lot of puberty books including one that specifically explains options around shaving and not shaving armpits. She has expressed no desire to shave and shows her armpits at swim class for example.
This is a fairly hippy, Northern California sleepaway camp, but these are preteen girls (and boys) we're talking about...
*I know lots of feminists who shave their armpits and more power to them! I support my daughter if she chooses to shave or not shave. My concern is with reinforcing the social compulsion to shave.
The unenviable job you have as a parent is to prepare your daughter for the world as it is, not the world as you might wish it to be. You're aware that she may be teased about the visible signs of the changes her body is undergoing. I think you'd be remiss if you didn't mention to her the things girls are "expected" to do with regard to body hair. The final decision about whether or not she wants to conform to the norms should rest with her, but it'd do her a disservice not to mention it, as you clearly sense.
posted by killdevil at 1:23 PM on June 21, 2013 [22 favorites]
posted by killdevil at 1:23 PM on June 21, 2013 [22 favorites]
PLEASE talk to her beforehand. Just the knowledge that kids might tease her for it, and it's totally cool with you either way, but please arm her with the oomph to support her decision.
posted by Ms Vegetable at 1:23 PM on June 21, 2013 [10 favorites]
posted by Ms Vegetable at 1:23 PM on June 21, 2013 [10 favorites]
The general rule about this is that a kid is ready to start shaving when she asks to start shaving. Just make sure she knows that she can talk to you about ANYTHING and you won't judge her. Make sure she knows that it is OK to make choices that are different from your choices.
When she's ready--when/if it ever bothers her--she will let you know.
And congratulations on having a weird kid. Weird kids are the best. /weirdkid
posted by phunniemee at 1:23 PM on June 21, 2013 [7 favorites]
When she's ready--when/if it ever bothers her--she will let you know.
And congratulations on having a weird kid. Weird kids are the best. /weirdkid
posted by phunniemee at 1:23 PM on June 21, 2013 [7 favorites]
Your best bet for not reinforcing any type of social compulsion is to drag it into the light and discuss it with her openly. Seconding: just tell her what you write here, more or less.
posted by Namlit at 1:23 PM on June 21, 2013 [10 favorites]
posted by Namlit at 1:23 PM on June 21, 2013 [10 favorites]
Why not ask her? She may be dreading the discussion because of what YOU may think.
Just say to her what you said here, and offer to get her a shaver if she wants one. I recommend one that has the soap around the razor. It's easy to use and it's gentle. Although, not cheap.
She can always change her mind about armpit hair, one way or another. Even if she says she doesn't want it, she might regret it after she gets to camp. So pack it in there for her.
(My mom shaved my legs for me when I was 12, and I've loved shaving ever since.)
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 1:24 PM on June 21, 2013 [4 favorites]
Just say to her what you said here, and offer to get her a shaver if she wants one. I recommend one that has the soap around the razor. It's easy to use and it's gentle. Although, not cheap.
She can always change her mind about armpit hair, one way or another. Even if she says she doesn't want it, she might regret it after she gets to camp. So pack it in there for her.
(My mom shaved my legs for me when I was 12, and I've loved shaving ever since.)
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 1:24 PM on June 21, 2013 [4 favorites]
It's sleep away camp. There's a greater than 50% chance the girls in her cabin will school her on armpit shaving if that's the social norm in this group and if she's inclined to do that. I'd let her know they're her armpits and she can do what she likes with them and you won't mind.
posted by DarlingBri at 1:25 PM on June 21, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by DarlingBri at 1:25 PM on June 21, 2013 [2 favorites]
My mother hated shaving her legs and insisted I not start shaving mine until later. This got me subjected to teasing and I hated it. I really resented her not giving me options.
I would sit her down and say "Hey, you know people can be jerks about stupid stuff. I am concerned about them being jerks to you at summer camp about underarm hair. I would be happy to teach you to shave and send supplies with you if you want. I do not want this to be an issue for you. It is your decision. I will respect your choice. I am just trying to do my due diligence as The Mom/Dad. Worrying about you comes with the territory. You know that's not, like, a slight or something, right?"
posted by Michele in California at 1:27 PM on June 21, 2013 [33 favorites]
I would sit her down and say "Hey, you know people can be jerks about stupid stuff. I am concerned about them being jerks to you at summer camp about underarm hair. I would be happy to teach you to shave and send supplies with you if you want. I do not want this to be an issue for you. It is your decision. I will respect your choice. I am just trying to do my due diligence as The Mom/Dad. Worrying about you comes with the territory. You know that's not, like, a slight or something, right?"
posted by Michele in California at 1:27 PM on June 21, 2013 [33 favorites]
Have you ever talked to her about shaving in a sort of neutral, "I don't shave, so I don't buy shaving supplies, but if you'd like to try it let me know for next time I go to the store" kind of way?
If not, you could do that. I wouldn't preemptively bring it up as, "Here's a thing people are going to tease you about," but I would be explicit that you think it's fine to shave or not shave, and also that it's something a lot of people have strong opinions about. Reading it in a book is good, but it might help if she also heard it from you. When I was 10 or 11, I wanted to try shaving but didn't know how to do it, and was for some reason mortified about asking my mom directly--even though she was super supportive, and great, and gave me really excellent books on puberty.
posted by Meg_Murry at 1:28 PM on June 21, 2013 [13 favorites]
If not, you could do that. I wouldn't preemptively bring it up as, "Here's a thing people are going to tease you about," but I would be explicit that you think it's fine to shave or not shave, and also that it's something a lot of people have strong opinions about. Reading it in a book is good, but it might help if she also heard it from you. When I was 10 or 11, I wanted to try shaving but didn't know how to do it, and was for some reason mortified about asking my mom directly--even though she was super supportive, and great, and gave me really excellent books on puberty.
posted by Meg_Murry at 1:28 PM on June 21, 2013 [13 favorites]
"Hey, {Kid}, before you head out to camp for two weeks, I want to check in with you on all that body stuff before you go, since I won't be around to ask... and now is the time when changes are really happening fast. Are you still cool with your armpits? Do you want to pack some pads just in case you get your period? Do you want to take any half-shirts or bras with you? {Other questions related to what she's been reading.}"
posted by juniperesque at 1:29 PM on June 21, 2013 [9 favorites]
posted by juniperesque at 1:29 PM on June 21, 2013 [9 favorites]
I really wish my mom had clued me in to more stuff like this. I ended up getting hazed for it by girls at just about this age. And that resulted in me feeling shame - for myself and my mother at not knowing about/complying with this, and conflict for having to decide whether to side with my peers and do as they did, defying my mom in the process, or having to subsume my own desire to fit in and be positioned as an outcast. It was all difficult. In some ways I think I'm still dealing with the ramifications of not knowing what place to assign conventional appearance aesthetics in my life, because my mom just never even broached this topic with me, leaving me on my own to navigate some very difficult waters.
This is her life, not yours - she doesn't need to inherit your choices as the default. They may not be right for her. think you should talk about it with her, openly and uncomplicatedly. "When you go to camp, you'll be living with a lot of girls your age. Some probably have their periods, some don't yet. Some are going to be shaving their legs and armpits, some won't be doing that. Those are all personal choices, and it's OK with me whatever you want to choose. I think girls and women look great no matter what they choose to do, and I personally don't shave because I think what my body does naturally is fine. But some people like the way it looks and feels, and they do shave. Whatever you do is fine with me. If you want to go shopping for the stuff you'd need to shave with before you go to camp, we can do that. It's up to you."
I am a feminist who is proud of and thankful for her feminist mom. I shave my legs. I started at summer camp. I'm not especially concerned with who does or doesn't do this, and there have been times I decidedly stopped doing it for long periods. But in the end, it's really not that big a deal. I understand that prescriptive aesthetics for women are problematic in a thousand ways. Believe me, whatever your daughter does or doesn't do with her body hair has no bearing on your politics, her ultimate politics, or her self-worth. But she needs to understand the context in which she is living, to have all the information she needs to make decisions, and to be supported for the individual choices she wants to make after reviewing that information.
posted by Miko at 1:29 PM on June 21, 2013 [41 favorites]
This is her life, not yours - she doesn't need to inherit your choices as the default. They may not be right for her. think you should talk about it with her, openly and uncomplicatedly. "When you go to camp, you'll be living with a lot of girls your age. Some probably have their periods, some don't yet. Some are going to be shaving their legs and armpits, some won't be doing that. Those are all personal choices, and it's OK with me whatever you want to choose. I think girls and women look great no matter what they choose to do, and I personally don't shave because I think what my body does naturally is fine. But some people like the way it looks and feels, and they do shave. Whatever you do is fine with me. If you want to go shopping for the stuff you'd need to shave with before you go to camp, we can do that. It's up to you."
I am a feminist who is proud of and thankful for her feminist mom. I shave my legs. I started at summer camp. I'm not especially concerned with who does or doesn't do this, and there have been times I decidedly stopped doing it for long periods. But in the end, it's really not that big a deal. I understand that prescriptive aesthetics for women are problematic in a thousand ways. Believe me, whatever your daughter does or doesn't do with her body hair has no bearing on your politics, her ultimate politics, or her self-worth. But she needs to understand the context in which she is living, to have all the information she needs to make decisions, and to be supported for the individual choices she wants to make after reviewing that information.
posted by Miko at 1:29 PM on June 21, 2013 [41 favorites]
Why not ask her? She may be dreading the discussion because of what YOU may think.
Oh, just seconding this - you're the adult, please don't wait for her to ask. I always thought I could not discuss these things because my mom didn't ask. As it ended up, I never told a lot of things because i thought that if I should know about/be talking about them, she'd have brought it up. Just bring it up! There's no shame in this discussion and she learns that by watching you deal with it openly.
posted by Miko at 1:31 PM on June 21, 2013 [18 favorites]
Oh, just seconding this - you're the adult, please don't wait for her to ask. I always thought I could not discuss these things because my mom didn't ask. As it ended up, I never told a lot of things because i thought that if I should know about/be talking about them, she'd have brought it up. Just bring it up! There's no shame in this discussion and she learns that by watching you deal with it openly.
posted by Miko at 1:31 PM on June 21, 2013 [18 favorites]
I was an awkward and naive 10 year old, and instead of ever telling my (socially awkward) mom about any of my issues, I kept it very private and tried to deal with it all myself. Some girls will approach their mothers. Some (like me) won't. In retrospect I wish my mother had confronted the awkward conversations and just spoken from her heart, without pressure in any direction, offering me options like buying supplies if I want them, rather than (unconsciously) helping me avoid them by waiting until I was ready. But that's just me.
Your daughter likely already knows that she's teased for being non-conforming. That's not going to be the big surprise. The surprise (for me at least) was that I could experiment with tampons or shaving or dye-ing my hair without making a lifelong choice for or against my mother or my friends.
posted by muddgirl at 1:33 PM on June 21, 2013 [11 favorites]
Your daughter likely already knows that she's teased for being non-conforming. That's not going to be the big surprise. The surprise (for me at least) was that I could experiment with tampons or shaving or dye-ing my hair without making a lifelong choice for or against my mother or my friends.
posted by muddgirl at 1:33 PM on June 21, 2013 [11 favorites]
I think nothing will be lost by buying a razor and showing her how it works, and explicitly discussing the people in her life who do and don't shave various parts of themselves, and making it clear that you place no value judgement on being one way, or the other, or anything in between. I wouldn't even put it in the context of sleep-away camp because I wouldn't want her to have fears of getting teased about something that may be a non-issue. Just mention it in the context of starting to grow body hair.
(This recommendation brought to you by the bloody horrorshow that was my first attempted leg-shaving at 14, having no clue what to do. The teasing afterwards was, if anything, worse than the teasing before, because the scabs on my legs made it pretty clear that I was trying and failing to fit in.)
posted by tchemgrrl at 1:34 PM on June 21, 2013 [3 favorites]
(This recommendation brought to you by the bloody horrorshow that was my first attempted leg-shaving at 14, having no clue what to do. The teasing afterwards was, if anything, worse than the teasing before, because the scabs on my legs made it pretty clear that I was trying and failing to fit in.)
posted by tchemgrrl at 1:34 PM on June 21, 2013 [3 favorites]
rather than (unconsciously) helping me avoid them by waiting until I was ready
Or rather, by waiting until she thought I was ready.
posted by muddgirl at 1:35 PM on June 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
Or rather, by waiting until she thought I was ready.
posted by muddgirl at 1:35 PM on June 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
Just a low-key "I'm going to pack a razor in case you need it while you're at camp, would you like me to show you how to use it?" might be enough. If she says no you can say something like, "OK, let me know if you change your mind" and then leave it up to her.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 1:36 PM on June 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by rabbitrabbit at 1:36 PM on June 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
Nthing to bring it up with her (to give her an opening to talk about it if she wants) instead of waiting for her to ask. My mom and I spent a lot of time together and discussed all kinds of stuff but as a shy-ish kid who'd gotten all kinds of weird messages from society about my body and about puberty, I didn't feel comfortable bringing up this sort of stuff.
posted by needs more cowbell at 1:43 PM on June 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by needs more cowbell at 1:43 PM on June 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
She's also fairly naive/unaware of standard social stuff
This is your opportunity to explain it to her. In fact, it is sort of your job, particularly if she isn't too adept with developing those social instincts herself.
posted by deanc at 1:46 PM on June 21, 2013 [10 favorites]
This is your opportunity to explain it to her. In fact, it is sort of your job, particularly if she isn't too adept with developing those social instincts herself.
posted by deanc at 1:46 PM on June 21, 2013 [10 favorites]
If she has underarm hair, she probably has underarm odor, and other physical changes. Talk to her about way people deal with them. Deodorant, more frequent showering, etc. Talk to her about what to do if her period starts at camp. I think you've probably already let her know that she has options about a lot of things. Ask her if she gets teased, and how she feels about that.
Over the next couple of days, look for a time that you're both home and could talk with minimal interruption, and ask her to talk. When my son was going through adolescence, I made a point of talking to him about physical changes, sexuality, etc., pretty often. He got to the point where he would obviously prefer to take out the trash, vacuum, and walk the dog rather than talk to his mom about sex. But when he had questions, he asked me. It feels very awkward at 1st, but once you start talking, it's pretty cool.
posted by theora55 at 1:47 PM on June 21, 2013 [11 favorites]
Over the next couple of days, look for a time that you're both home and could talk with minimal interruption, and ask her to talk. When my son was going through adolescence, I made a point of talking to him about physical changes, sexuality, etc., pretty often. He got to the point where he would obviously prefer to take out the trash, vacuum, and walk the dog rather than talk to his mom about sex. But when he had questions, he asked me. It feels very awkward at 1st, but once you start talking, it's pretty cool.
posted by theora55 at 1:47 PM on June 21, 2013 [11 favorites]
Yes, please tell her about this social norm. My parents are from another country and I didn't know - having other girls let me know I wasn't following the rules was - bad.
Please tell her. If you also want to tell her that it's just a social norm that she isn't compelled to support, that's OK, and if you want to share your thoughts, that's OK, but I see some comments upthread that make it sound like the other girls could just show her and all will be well. That won't happen! Kids are mean.
posted by sweetkid at 1:56 PM on June 21, 2013 [3 favorites]
Please tell her. If you also want to tell her that it's just a social norm that she isn't compelled to support, that's OK, and if you want to share your thoughts, that's OK, but I see some comments upthread that make it sound like the other girls could just show her and all will be well. That won't happen! Kids are mean.
posted by sweetkid at 1:56 PM on June 21, 2013 [3 favorites]
Please talk to her and at least offer her the option. She might feel odd asking. My mom never showed me, and I thought that maybe that meant she disapproved. I'd secretly borrow my Dad's razor and I'd try to shave my legs dry because I had no idea what I was doing. It hurt a lot. So, just tell her how it's done so she's educated about that option. Then she can make her own decision.
posted by Ostara at 2:00 PM on June 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Ostara at 2:00 PM on June 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
I was just going to tell my own story about shaving my legs dry at age 9. Awful, awful razor burn ensued. I hadn't been teased about it, but my friends were all doing it and I felt weird. I'd definitely just talk to her about it, openly and honestly, like you have with us here.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 2:03 PM on June 21, 2013
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 2:03 PM on June 21, 2013
Yes, talk to her about it. My mom never shaved anything and never taught me how, so I thought it was bad to shave until I got teased by other girls. I then tried to shave in secret with a cheapo disposable razor that I found in an old airplane toiletries kit. I cut the living shit out of myself. I literally took a thick strip of skin off my shin as if I was peeling a carrot. I also got other cuts on my legs and fingers because I didn't realize you couldn't shave from side to side. If she ever decides she wants to shave, she should know how to do it properly and safely.
posted by keep it under cover at 2:04 PM on June 21, 2013 [9 favorites]
posted by keep it under cover at 2:04 PM on June 21, 2013 [9 favorites]
It's sleep away camp. There's a greater than 50% chance the girls in her cabin will school her on armpit shaving if that's the social norm in this group and if she's inclined to do that. I'd let her know they're her armpits and she can do what she likes with them and you won't mind.
I think this would definitely be true if she was older, but I started to grown hair when I was at sleep away camp, I had never shaved, no one else had it or shaved, and I was really embarrassed and didn't know who to ask about it. 20 years later, I still remember not enjoying myself as much that summer because of my concern to keep my arms down.
I would talk to her, let her know it is her choice, and teach her how to shave if that is what she wants.
posted by hrj at 2:05 PM on June 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
I think this would definitely be true if she was older, but I started to grown hair when I was at sleep away camp, I had never shaved, no one else had it or shaved, and I was really embarrassed and didn't know who to ask about it. 20 years later, I still remember not enjoying myself as much that summer because of my concern to keep my arms down.
I would talk to her, let her know it is her choice, and teach her how to shave if that is what she wants.
posted by hrj at 2:05 PM on June 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
My daughter is also ten, and has substantial underarm hair, and will be attending swim camp this summer. I'm also a nonshaving feminist, and am struggling with this. (Wanna be friends?)
I ended up talking to her about it a month ago. We'd been talking about getting teased at school, and I said you know how some kids are jerks who tease people? Some kids at swim camp might tease you about your underarm hair, because lots of people shave it, or because they're not used to seeing it, or because they don't have any yet and it's weird to them. If you want to get rid of it before you go, just let me know and I'll show you how, ok?
At the time, she said she wanted to shave it. I bought a razor, just in case. It's come up twice since then, though, and she doesn't seem to actually want to shave it--she seems to like it. Camp isn't for another month, so we'll see what happens by then, but I've made it clear that she may get teased becuase of her body hair, and also made it clear that if she wants the hair gone, we can (painlessly) do that, so I feel like I've done the best I can, here.
Also, for whatever it's worth, I was prepared for kids to be right assholes about it, but she's been swimming with other kids--nine-to-twelve year old boys, mostly--and no one's mentioned it. They've teased her for her inability to get within ten feet of water without goggles, sure, but not for the armpits. So I'm hoping that I'm worrying more than I need to, and it's all going to be fine.
posted by MeghanC at 2:05 PM on June 21, 2013 [4 favorites]
I ended up talking to her about it a month ago. We'd been talking about getting teased at school, and I said you know how some kids are jerks who tease people? Some kids at swim camp might tease you about your underarm hair, because lots of people shave it, or because they're not used to seeing it, or because they don't have any yet and it's weird to them. If you want to get rid of it before you go, just let me know and I'll show you how, ok?
At the time, she said she wanted to shave it. I bought a razor, just in case. It's come up twice since then, though, and she doesn't seem to actually want to shave it--she seems to like it. Camp isn't for another month, so we'll see what happens by then, but I've made it clear that she may get teased becuase of her body hair, and also made it clear that if she wants the hair gone, we can (painlessly) do that, so I feel like I've done the best I can, here.
Also, for whatever it's worth, I was prepared for kids to be right assholes about it, but she's been swimming with other kids--nine-to-twelve year old boys, mostly--and no one's mentioned it. They've teased her for her inability to get within ten feet of water without goggles, sure, but not for the armpits. So I'm hoping that I'm worrying more than I need to, and it's all going to be fine.
posted by MeghanC at 2:05 PM on June 21, 2013 [4 favorites]
Another voice piping up in favor of having an open conversation - my mother didn't shave, and the summer I turned 11 I decided to shave my legs in secret, locked myself in my parents' bathroom, found a very old, somewhat rusty hand-razor (since it looked more like what I'd seen women use on TV than the electric razor my father actually used), and ran it quickly (gingerly, I'd thought, but I'd never seen a razor in person before, let alone use one) up the front of one calf, stripping off several layers of skin in the process. I was so embarrassed that I hid the evidence and didn't start properly shaving for another year, but it would have helped if I'd felt I could have asked my mother to help me choose a razor, and teach me how to use it...
posted by pammeke at 2:17 PM on June 21, 2013
posted by pammeke at 2:17 PM on June 21, 2013
My mom gave a me a razor with which to shave my armpits. I think she presented it as more of a hygiene issue (which isn't necessarily true, but whatever) and less of a "OMG body hair is gross" thing. I got teased about having hairy legs, so I started shaving them myself.
I think I was 11.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 2:19 PM on June 21, 2013
I think I was 11.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 2:19 PM on June 21, 2013
my mom just never even broached this topic with me, leaving me on my own to navigate some very difficult waters.
Mine was like this too. Her personal feeling was "Fuck what other people think" which works better when you're a grown-up lady than when you're a kid trying to figure out what normal is. So I'd just bring it up, explain that it's a thing that other people sometimes care about, that she can make her own choices, that you support her in whatever she does and hey have fun at camp.
posted by jessamyn at 2:21 PM on June 21, 2013 [8 favorites]
Mine was like this too. Her personal feeling was "Fuck what other people think" which works better when you're a grown-up lady than when you're a kid trying to figure out what normal is. So I'd just bring it up, explain that it's a thing that other people sometimes care about, that she can make her own choices, that you support her in whatever she does and hey have fun at camp.
posted by jessamyn at 2:21 PM on June 21, 2013 [8 favorites]
Seconding everyone who says just talk to her about it beforehand, and set out some options for her, without pushing her one way or the other.
I wanted to add also that you could offer her something like a short-sleeved rashguard top to wear with a swimsuit if she doesn't want to shave but also doesn't want to risk getting teased about it. I wear one often as an adult who prefers armpit hair but doesn't necessarily prefer having to discuss it with people who might find it weird. (And also hates the sun.) Unless you think the shirt would get her teased, too... though really, they just make you look like you're about to go surfing, which seems fine.
Also I have a friend whose sister gave her a "you should shave before summer camp" talk, and she did, and she hated it, and never shaved again. So even if she does decide to shave, it's not like she has to do it forever!
posted by little cow make small moo at 2:33 PM on June 21, 2013 [4 favorites]
I wanted to add also that you could offer her something like a short-sleeved rashguard top to wear with a swimsuit if she doesn't want to shave but also doesn't want to risk getting teased about it. I wear one often as an adult who prefers armpit hair but doesn't necessarily prefer having to discuss it with people who might find it weird. (And also hates the sun.) Unless you think the shirt would get her teased, too... though really, they just make you look like you're about to go surfing, which seems fine.
Also I have a friend whose sister gave her a "you should shave before summer camp" talk, and she did, and she hated it, and never shaved again. So even if she does decide to shave, it's not like she has to do it forever!
posted by little cow make small moo at 2:33 PM on June 21, 2013 [4 favorites]
Everyone has pretty much covered it. I would just add that you should encourage her to have a plan on what to do if she chooses not to shave and gets teased (ignore them, snappy comebacks, whatever). It's easier to be brave if you have a plan.
posted by rakaidan at 2:35 PM on June 21, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by rakaidan at 2:35 PM on June 21, 2013 [3 favorites]
I agree with the general consensus to talk about it now.
I'd suggest some of the smelly chemical creams over shaving at this point, though. That's what I did the first few times as a kid. Then I moved on to carrot-peeling my shins with razors.
posted by looli at 2:40 PM on June 21, 2013
I'd suggest some of the smelly chemical creams over shaving at this point, though. That's what I did the first few times as a kid. Then I moved on to carrot-peeling my shins with razors.
posted by looli at 2:40 PM on June 21, 2013
Nthing that even the world's coolest mom may seem scary to talk to about this. I spent probably a solid year (from age 11 to age 12) trying to work up the courage to tell my mom I wanted to start shaving - I have no idea why it was so hard - and I had some unfortunate experiences with disposable razors, Nair, etc. along the way. I so, so wished that my mom would just think of it herself and ask me about it, but she never did (and although she was a semi-hippie mom, she does shave). I like Meg_Murry's advice above on how to talk about it.
posted by naoko at 2:50 PM on June 21, 2013
posted by naoko at 2:50 PM on June 21, 2013
Whatever you do (and you've given no indication that you would do this, I'm just sayin') please don't perpetuate the myth that her hair will grow back thicker and darker after she shaves it.
I remember asking my mom if I could start shaving my legs when I was 11 and she said no way, that I was too young, and my hair would grow back thicker and darker and etc. I kept pleading for months. My grandma even told me that every time you shave, TWO hairs grow back where there was only one before.
They come from the side of the family with fine, light-colored hair, so they had a completely different relationship to body hair than I did. (I got my hair genes from my dad, who I think may actually be half moose or something.)
Eventually I just started stealing my mom's razor when she was out of the house, and no one even noticed until I was 14, at which point she was all "ALL YOU EVER HAD TO DO WAS ASK!!!" which, ugh. Obviously not.
I'm sure you'll handle this just fine. The fact that you care enough to ask this question pretty much assures that.
posted by phunniemee at 2:52 PM on June 21, 2013 [2 favorites]
I remember asking my mom if I could start shaving my legs when I was 11 and she said no way, that I was too young, and my hair would grow back thicker and darker and etc. I kept pleading for months. My grandma even told me that every time you shave, TWO hairs grow back where there was only one before.
They come from the side of the family with fine, light-colored hair, so they had a completely different relationship to body hair than I did. (I got my hair genes from my dad, who I think may actually be half moose or something.)
Eventually I just started stealing my mom's razor when she was out of the house, and no one even noticed until I was 14, at which point she was all "ALL YOU EVER HAD TO DO WAS ASK!!!" which, ugh. Obviously not.
I'm sure you'll handle this just fine. The fact that you care enough to ask this question pretty much assures that.
posted by phunniemee at 2:52 PM on June 21, 2013 [2 favorites]
Its one of the things you should be teaching her, along with (when the time comes) how to use a pad or a tampon, how to blow dry her hair, etc. Just teaching her the skills doesn't mean you're endorsing any particular view of what they mean. Show her how the razor works, that its better to shave wet than dry, and that going slowly helps prevent nicks. By framing it as a skills lesson and "some people like their body hair like this and some like it like this" you give her the tools to control how she wants to present herself to the world.
posted by MsMolly at 3:20 PM on June 21, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by MsMolly at 3:20 PM on June 21, 2013 [2 favorites]
Chiming in as someone else who was very close to her mom, talked about all kinds of things - but not this stuff. I just could not bring myself to do it, and as a result got teased and bullied in ways that I still remember now.
I think if you can find a low-key way to make options available to her, you'd be doing a good thing. Just the fact that you're aware of this and asking about it already means you're doing a good thing. Rock on, you.
posted by Stacey at 3:22 PM on June 21, 2013
I think if you can find a low-key way to make options available to her, you'd be doing a good thing. Just the fact that you're aware of this and asking about it already means you're doing a good thing. Rock on, you.
posted by Stacey at 3:22 PM on June 21, 2013
I'd encourage you to talk to her about it and buy the supplies without waiting for her to ask. Shaving can be kind of a nervey thing to decide to do the first time (it's sharp! what if i cut myself? what if mom actually disapproves? etc. etc.) and the less barriers there are, the better. Also, please offer to SHOW her how to shave. As a kid, I had to argue vehemently to be given the right to shave and then I was terrified of actually touching the blade to my skin. My mom refused to show me how to do it and so for years I used a stupid electric razor that only half worked and I was always terrified that the mean girls would notice my legs weren't totally smooth and I felt ashamed for being scared of the blade. (Omg there are so. many. feelings. when you're that age.)
There is also plenty of evidence in this thread of what happens with a razor and little to no instruction. (Ouch! So much flinching when I read this thread.)
Seconding deanc's sentiment about how "it is sort of your job, particularly if she isn't too adept with developing those social instincts herself." Puberty is hard enough. Maybe make it a bit easier on her by explaining these social norms and allowing her the opportunities to make choices rather than leaving her to struggle to figure it all out on her own.
I hope she has a really good time at camp.
posted by purple_bird at 4:10 PM on June 21, 2013
There is also plenty of evidence in this thread of what happens with a razor and little to no instruction. (Ouch! So much flinching when I read this thread.)
Seconding deanc's sentiment about how "it is sort of your job, particularly if she isn't too adept with developing those social instincts herself." Puberty is hard enough. Maybe make it a bit easier on her by explaining these social norms and allowing her the opportunities to make choices rather than leaving her to struggle to figure it all out on her own.
I hope she has a really good time at camp.
posted by purple_bird at 4:10 PM on June 21, 2013
Another girl whose mom never discussed any of this stuff and who grew up mortified/embarrassed/socially outcast because I had no idea how to relate to my peers or any sense of social convention whatsoever (for totally different reasons, but same result). I would frankly buy her a razor. But I tend to fall in the camp of picking one's battles and living in the world we have while attempting to change it, not abandoning social convention entirely to make a point.
If you want to do the latter, for yourself, I applaud you; but I would respectfully submit that children not be made the guinea pigs for this type of social change. A 10-year-old girl does not have thought-out convictions on feminist principle yet; she is following what the significant figures in her life tell her, whether it be you or her friends, and when those are in conflict she is going to have internal conflict. Make it easier on her, for now.
posted by celtalitha at 5:21 PM on June 21, 2013 [5 favorites]
If you want to do the latter, for yourself, I applaud you; but I would respectfully submit that children not be made the guinea pigs for this type of social change. A 10-year-old girl does not have thought-out convictions on feminist principle yet; she is following what the significant figures in her life tell her, whether it be you or her friends, and when those are in conflict she is going to have internal conflict. Make it easier on her, for now.
posted by celtalitha at 5:21 PM on June 21, 2013 [5 favorites]
I wanted to add also that you could offer her something like a short-sleeved rashguard top to wear with a swimsuit if she doesn't want to shave but also doesn't want to risk getting teased about it.
Just back from a tropical vacation and -- anecdotally -- saw lots of girls about your kid's age wearing these. I don't know what the style is at your daughter's camp, but they're pretty cute and sporty and a good in between-y option, as pointed out above. (I wear one sometimes as a grown-up lady when I worry I've gotten too my sun/if I'm doing something where my boob might pop out.)
Definitely talk to her, though.
posted by Countess Sandwich at 5:26 PM on June 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
Just back from a tropical vacation and -- anecdotally -- saw lots of girls about your kid's age wearing these. I don't know what the style is at your daughter's camp, but they're pretty cute and sporty and a good in between-y option, as pointed out above. (I wear one sometimes as a grown-up lady when I worry I've gotten too my sun/if I'm doing something where my boob might pop out.)
Definitely talk to her, though.
posted by Countess Sandwich at 5:26 PM on June 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
little cow make small moo: "I wanted to add also that you could offer her something like a short-sleeved rashguard top to wear with a swimsuit if she doesn't want to shave but also doesn't want to risk getting teased about it. I wear one often as an adult who prefers armpit hair but doesn't necessarily prefer having to discuss it with people who might find it weird. (And also hates the sun.) Unless you think the shirt would get her teased, too... though really, they just make you look like you're about to go surfing, which seems fine."
This is what I do. I actually prefer underarm hair, but this is what I do in order to forestall conversations about it. And I think all the 'buy her a razor' comments are kinda missing the point that even though people are fucking arseholes about women's body hair, and teens can be worse, she may still decide not to and actively buying a razor when mum doesn't shave really pushes shaving as the solution.
My mother didn't shave and I wish we'd had more conversations about that, other than "I don't want to" because it was hard for me to put words to my discomfort with the expectation that because I was a woman I would shave. I was teased for anything and everything, hairy armpits was the least of it. I would have liked a script, or support, or something. Support for shaving comes from everywhere, it's the support for hairiness that is hard to come by.
It shit me as well, that I have hair like my dad who looks like a goddamn bear, so when mum with the sparse hair said 'nobody notices' she was correct for her and totally wrong for me, and that was where the conversation stopped.
posted by geek anachronism at 5:39 PM on June 21, 2013 [3 favorites]
This is what I do. I actually prefer underarm hair, but this is what I do in order to forestall conversations about it. And I think all the 'buy her a razor' comments are kinda missing the point that even though people are fucking arseholes about women's body hair, and teens can be worse, she may still decide not to and actively buying a razor when mum doesn't shave really pushes shaving as the solution.
My mother didn't shave and I wish we'd had more conversations about that, other than "I don't want to" because it was hard for me to put words to my discomfort with the expectation that because I was a woman I would shave. I was teased for anything and everything, hairy armpits was the least of it. I would have liked a script, or support, or something. Support for shaving comes from everywhere, it's the support for hairiness that is hard to come by.
It shit me as well, that I have hair like my dad who looks like a goddamn bear, so when mum with the sparse hair said 'nobody notices' she was correct for her and totally wrong for me, and that was where the conversation stopped.
posted by geek anachronism at 5:39 PM on June 21, 2013 [3 favorites]
Has she ever expressed the faintest whiff of uneasiness/unconfidence about body hair to you? Like, "Other kids make fun of my underarm hair" or similar?
If so, I think it would be sort of OK for you to mention that shaving is a thing, other girls might be doing it, it's OK if she wants to, etc.
That said, I definitely went through a phase around that age where I was both uneasy about my changing body and also completely repulsed by the idea of shaving. So just because you say, "btw, you can shave!" doesn't mean she'll say, "O rly? Suh-weeet!" and scene.
I think that, in general you should leave it to her. I started moving down the path of weird nerdy girl around that age, a lot of it had to do with body image and puberty stuff, and like it or not it was a beast I had to fight on my own. It took long and awkward years, and on the other end of it all the answer that was right for me was more to not give a shit what other people thought and less "figure out correct beauty regimen". I think all young women have to find their place on that spectrum, and it comes easier to some girls than others.
The most important thing you can do, in my opinion, is to be supportive of whatever she wants to do and not naggy or adversarial about it. My mom was definitely on the side of All Female Beauty Conventions, which made it all a lot harder for me. I especially remember a lot of pushback from my mom on bras which in hindsight seems like just pointless conflict between us since I really didn't need a bra at all and my mom was completely obnoxious about it.
posted by Sara C. at 6:48 PM on June 21, 2013
If so, I think it would be sort of OK for you to mention that shaving is a thing, other girls might be doing it, it's OK if she wants to, etc.
That said, I definitely went through a phase around that age where I was both uneasy about my changing body and also completely repulsed by the idea of shaving. So just because you say, "btw, you can shave!" doesn't mean she'll say, "O rly? Suh-weeet!" and scene.
I think that, in general you should leave it to her. I started moving down the path of weird nerdy girl around that age, a lot of it had to do with body image and puberty stuff, and like it or not it was a beast I had to fight on my own. It took long and awkward years, and on the other end of it all the answer that was right for me was more to not give a shit what other people thought and less "figure out correct beauty regimen". I think all young women have to find their place on that spectrum, and it comes easier to some girls than others.
The most important thing you can do, in my opinion, is to be supportive of whatever she wants to do and not naggy or adversarial about it. My mom was definitely on the side of All Female Beauty Conventions, which made it all a lot harder for me. I especially remember a lot of pushback from my mom on bras which in hindsight seems like just pointless conflict between us since I really didn't need a bra at all and my mom was completely obnoxious about it.
posted by Sara C. at 6:48 PM on June 21, 2013
To clarify, above when I said "you should leave it to her", I don't mean that you should leave it to her to inform you that she'd like to start shaving. I think you should follow her cues about whether she's ready to -- cues that might not be as explicit as saying she wants to shave -- and then follow her lead on body issues in general. If she's not that into shaving, fine. If she really wants to shave, also fine.
posted by Sara C. at 6:57 PM on June 21, 2013
posted by Sara C. at 6:57 PM on June 21, 2013
I would just get her the razor and show her how to use it with the caveat that she doesn't have to if she doesn't want to. Just because she could find herself stranded and unhappy and might be too shy or just not know to ask or say yes when you ask. And/or you could discuss the broader subject of what she should do if the other girls are giving her a hard time.
I remember being stranded at summer camp, although my problem was that all of my clothes were totally inapropriate and i spent the whole time freaking out about it. It's no fun to feel stranded, unprepared and alone.
posted by bleep at 7:11 PM on June 21, 2013
I remember being stranded at summer camp, although my problem was that all of my clothes were totally inapropriate and i spent the whole time freaking out about it. It's no fun to feel stranded, unprepared and alone.
posted by bleep at 7:11 PM on June 21, 2013
One other option you can offer your daughter is a rash guard. I like to wear one sometimes when I'm swimming, usually over a bikini. They sell cute ones at surf type of shops and places like REI.
posted by dottiechang at 7:12 PM on June 21, 2013
posted by dottiechang at 7:12 PM on June 21, 2013
So, is this a co-ed camp? I ask because, at about her age, I was getting surrounded by boys in the pool a lot at co-ed camp because I was developing, and at the time I didn't understand it was about them gawking at me (and probably saying gross stuff behind my back). I knew it was weird, but didn't understand why at the time.
I'm not telling you that to horrify you, but because if she doesn't look like a little kid in a bathing suit anymore (and maybe even if she does), and is going to be around boys, then it is something she needs to know could happen. They aren't all like that, but all it takes is a few assholes to make her feel bad.
posted by emjaybee at 7:19 PM on June 21, 2013
I'm not telling you that to horrify you, but because if she doesn't look like a little kid in a bathing suit anymore (and maybe even if she does), and is going to be around boys, then it is something she needs to know could happen. They aren't all like that, but all it takes is a few assholes to make her feel bad.
posted by emjaybee at 7:19 PM on June 21, 2013
Oh god yes please talk to her with the starting point of "if you want to do this thing that is your decision and I support it no matter what BUT HERE IS TECHNICALLY HOW TO DO THIS THING TO YOUR BODY WITH A SHARP ITEM". No one showed me and I am pretty sure I may have bled to death and been mysteriously resurrected.
Also, as emjaybee mentions above, body hair means that pretty much automatically people are going to sexualize her. Prepare her for this, no matter how uncomfortable it is for you to explain that not just preteen and teen boys but grown men are going to creep on her openly now.
ugh
society
posted by elizardbits at 8:07 PM on June 21, 2013 [2 favorites]
Also, as emjaybee mentions above, body hair means that pretty much automatically people are going to sexualize her. Prepare her for this, no matter how uncomfortable it is for you to explain that not just preteen and teen boys but grown men are going to creep on her openly now.
ugh
society
posted by elizardbits at 8:07 PM on June 21, 2013 [2 favorites]
I answered from kid perspective, and only later remembered I was also a sleepaway camp counselor/staff member for 7 summers. So another thing you should think about is having a word with her counselors before you drop her off there. You can lay it on the line about the shaving issue, or just say "she's socially sensitive, and it would be great if you can help her build confidence," and that sort of thing. If you choose to address the shaving, you can just say "I don't, and I don't know if she's going to want to, but if it starts to become an issue with the other girls, let me know/let her know it's totally cool to do whatever/let the other girls know it's cool to do whatever/remind her she has the tools to shave if she wants." Whatever options you want to create. Choose someone who's more experienced, that is has worked more than one summer. Even that small amount of time is enough to get tools for handling all sorts of preteen girl issues.
It is amazing, but a lot of this stuff does totally happen at summer camp. Girls always seemed to get their first period ever while with us at camp, and things like that. Also, remind your daughter that the camp nurse is someone she can go to for both physical needs/emergencies, and any problems happening in the bunk of a social/emotional type. Camp nurses have seen all of that, too, and are usually more mature still than counselors, so they are a great backup resource for your daughter. You'll probably meet the nurse at drop-off on the first day, so strike up a bit of a rapport if you can and let your daughter know that's another person on her support team.
posted by Miko at 8:42 PM on June 21, 2013
It is amazing, but a lot of this stuff does totally happen at summer camp. Girls always seemed to get their first period ever while with us at camp, and things like that. Also, remind your daughter that the camp nurse is someone she can go to for both physical needs/emergencies, and any problems happening in the bunk of a social/emotional type. Camp nurses have seen all of that, too, and are usually more mature still than counselors, so they are a great backup resource for your daughter. You'll probably meet the nurse at drop-off on the first day, so strike up a bit of a rapport if you can and let your daughter know that's another person on her support team.
posted by Miko at 8:42 PM on June 21, 2013
What else does she get teased about in terms of "being weird"?
posted by Dansaman at 11:37 PM on June 21, 2013
posted by Dansaman at 11:37 PM on June 21, 2013
I think people here are being a bit naive about what the possibilities are at a summer camp with contemporary 10-year-olds (as opposed to the equivalent in the 70s and 80s or even the 90s when most mefi-ites went to camp).
She's not likely to get "teased" in some sort of cute tween-movie way if she is visibly hitting puberty and dealing with it poorly. She's likely to be subjected to highly sexualised bullying, from both boys and girls, and at sleepaway camp, bullying that starts at the pool or the lake is able to continue 24/7, most of it away from counsellors' eyes, and to include older kids. If the camp doesn't take away kids' technology (some do), or if kids break the rules on that front, you also should be concerned that this will continue after camp and in other venues and that she will be exposed to a lot of stuff you'd like not to have to explain.
You need to talk with her about shaving and body odor, so that she can deal with these in a safe, age-appropriate manner, as noted above, and you absolutely need to talk with her very directly about how to handle inappropriate sexual attention and comments and about porn and the internet. You should also talk directly and clearly with the counsellors, explaining her history, the fact that she's slow to pick up on social rules, and your concerns. You need to make absolutely clear to them that you want a call if they feel she's getting bullied, as soon as the problem appears (not after they've tried to deal with it for a week and decided it's beyond their control) and you need to make a backup plan for the rest of your family if you need to come and get her to bring her home from camp. Make it clear to her that all of this is in place and that you won't judge her for whatever she decides.
If your daughter doesn't want to shave (or is just more comfortable being a bit more covered up for other reasons), you might also look at higher-coverage swimwear - something like Girls4Sport, which retails "modest" adorable swimwear that covers both armpits and bikini line without becoming some sort of awful swimdress.
posted by Wylla at 1:03 AM on June 22, 2013 [4 favorites]
She's not likely to get "teased" in some sort of cute tween-movie way if she is visibly hitting puberty and dealing with it poorly. She's likely to be subjected to highly sexualised bullying, from both boys and girls, and at sleepaway camp, bullying that starts at the pool or the lake is able to continue 24/7, most of it away from counsellors' eyes, and to include older kids. If the camp doesn't take away kids' technology (some do), or if kids break the rules on that front, you also should be concerned that this will continue after camp and in other venues and that she will be exposed to a lot of stuff you'd like not to have to explain.
You need to talk with her about shaving and body odor, so that she can deal with these in a safe, age-appropriate manner, as noted above, and you absolutely need to talk with her very directly about how to handle inappropriate sexual attention and comments and about porn and the internet. You should also talk directly and clearly with the counsellors, explaining her history, the fact that she's slow to pick up on social rules, and your concerns. You need to make absolutely clear to them that you want a call if they feel she's getting bullied, as soon as the problem appears (not after they've tried to deal with it for a week and decided it's beyond their control) and you need to make a backup plan for the rest of your family if you need to come and get her to bring her home from camp. Make it clear to her that all of this is in place and that you won't judge her for whatever she decides.
If your daughter doesn't want to shave (or is just more comfortable being a bit more covered up for other reasons), you might also look at higher-coverage swimwear - something like Girls4Sport, which retails "modest" adorable swimwear that covers both armpits and bikini line without becoming some sort of awful swimdress.
posted by Wylla at 1:03 AM on June 22, 2013 [4 favorites]
I just want to note that as an educator and former camp counselor, nothing about "highly sexualized bullying" is new, and all those behaviors have existed for a long time with the exception of the technological dimension, which you should find out about before camp starts. The bullying of the past was also not "cute tween movie" bullying. I wouldn't want the OP to think there is some special and new threat to her, when in fact the same tactics have always been used in bullying, as I've certainly witnessed.
You can inquire about how counselors are trained to manage their groups, how, when, and where girls are supervised, how they would recognize signs of bullying, how they would get help for problems they can't handle alone, etc. That will help you understand how well attuned the camp staff is to potential issues. Sports camps are sometimes less great at this than other kinds of camps, but that is a sweeping generalization and you should ask for yourself.
One of the great things about camp is that it is a completely new social milieu, as well. Kids who have a difficult time at school or in their neighborhood can often do very well at camp. They may find other friends more like themselves, or simply enjoy being freed from the baggage of their home identity and being successful at things they can do which are not a big part of life and school success at home (athletics, outdoor skills, being funny, being a good listener, art, singing, etc). So this may end up being a very positive experience, rather than a very negative one. It's good to be prepared for a wide range of reactions, but as a former socially awkward kid, I experienced camp as transformative and liberating, and have seen dozens and dozens of other kids have a very similar, very positive reaction often resulting in lifelong friendships and increased self-worth. I hope you have a great experience.
posted by Miko at 5:37 AM on June 22, 2013 [3 favorites]
You can inquire about how counselors are trained to manage their groups, how, when, and where girls are supervised, how they would recognize signs of bullying, how they would get help for problems they can't handle alone, etc. That will help you understand how well attuned the camp staff is to potential issues. Sports camps are sometimes less great at this than other kinds of camps, but that is a sweeping generalization and you should ask for yourself.
One of the great things about camp is that it is a completely new social milieu, as well. Kids who have a difficult time at school or in their neighborhood can often do very well at camp. They may find other friends more like themselves, or simply enjoy being freed from the baggage of their home identity and being successful at things they can do which are not a big part of life and school success at home (athletics, outdoor skills, being funny, being a good listener, art, singing, etc). So this may end up being a very positive experience, rather than a very negative one. It's good to be prepared for a wide range of reactions, but as a former socially awkward kid, I experienced camp as transformative and liberating, and have seen dozens and dozens of other kids have a very similar, very positive reaction often resulting in lifelong friendships and increased self-worth. I hope you have a great experience.
posted by Miko at 5:37 AM on June 22, 2013 [3 favorites]
When you don't bring things up, kids fill in with their own conclusions about what the silence means (underarm hair is shameful, you shouldn't shave, you should shave, you're on your own with the bullying, or anything else they come up with). Just bring it up. You are going to do it in a loving, thoughtful, low-pressure way, and it is going to help prepare her, and reduce the likelihood that she will be mercilessly teased. I hope it goes well for her.
posted by ravioli at 12:23 PM on June 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by ravioli at 12:23 PM on June 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
Whether or not she decides to shave, if she's already being singled out as being "weird" then it might be good to have a conversation about the teasing before she goes away to a camp for two weeks with peers. When I was a weird kid, *that* is the conversation I wish my parents had had with me before I went to sleepaway camp.
posted by Wuggie Norple at 12:43 PM on June 22, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by Wuggie Norple at 12:43 PM on June 22, 2013 [2 favorites]
I just want to note that as an educator and former camp counselor, nothing about "highly sexualized bullying" is new, and all those behaviors have existed for a long time with the exception of the technological dimension, which you should find out about before camp starts.
The "technological dimension" is the big deal here, though - most of the people bullying a "weird" kid have now seen a lot of porn and will be more than happy to "educate" a child they don't like on exactly what her body should look like and exactly what she "should" want them to do to her body, with demonstrations (via mime) and sound effects, or via clips displayed on a convenient cell phone.
Remember also that most kids at a typical camp will be older than 10.
One of the great things about camp is that it is a completely new social milieu, as well.
Much less true today than even 5 years ago - if the OP's daughter has any social media presence, any in-school bullying can follow her to camp.
posted by Wylla at 1:09 PM on June 22, 2013
The "technological dimension" is the big deal here, though - most of the people bullying a "weird" kid have now seen a lot of porn and will be more than happy to "educate" a child they don't like on exactly what her body should look like and exactly what she "should" want them to do to her body, with demonstrations (via mime) and sound effects, or via clips displayed on a convenient cell phone.
Remember also that most kids at a typical camp will be older than 10.
One of the great things about camp is that it is a completely new social milieu, as well.
Much less true today than even 5 years ago - if the OP's daughter has any social media presence, any in-school bullying can follow her to camp.
posted by Wylla at 1:09 PM on June 22, 2013
Posted before adding that none of this means the OP should flip out, assume the worst, etc...just that she should plan ahead and make a plan for how to deal with any issues, including the worst case scenario where the "teasing" for her daughter's hair crosses the line into real "bullying", and that these plans should be made realistically, with the counsellors fully informed.
posted by Wylla at 1:35 PM on June 22, 2013
posted by Wylla at 1:35 PM on June 22, 2013
My mum didn't shave, and so I wasn't taught to shave myself. It was only a few years ago that I realised that most people didn't just take a cheap men's safety razor and run it over dry skin. We don't have sleep-away camp here, but I did do PE and change with other girls, and it would have been much more likely that someone would have made fun of a hairy person than showed them how to do it, sadly. (I'm very fair so nobody really noticed in my case.)
I think you could explain to her how it's Done Properly without giving the message that this is something she *needs* to do - you can present it as a choice, and one you don't happen to take but that she can if she wants to.
posted by mippy at 4:18 AM on June 24, 2013
I think you could explain to her how it's Done Properly without giving the message that this is something she *needs* to do - you can present it as a choice, and one you don't happen to take but that she can if she wants to.
posted by mippy at 4:18 AM on June 24, 2013
Mod note: Folks please try to keep answers pretty narrowly focused on shaving and related topics not "everything she needs to know about camp" Thanks.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:45 AM on June 24, 2013
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:45 AM on June 24, 2013
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:22 PM on June 21, 2013 [15 favorites]