It's over, now what?
June 10, 2013 10:39 AM Subscribe
4 months ago, I (a woman) broke up with my boyfriend of over a decade. The breakup came out of the blue, and neither of us were prepared for the aftermath that comes with dissolving a household. Things are still not completely done, and I feel like they need to be so that I can actually start to move past that chapter in my life. On the other hand, I've been avoiding dealing with these issues for months because of how my ex lashes out at me every time he gets the chance. I need some help formulating a plan to get it all done and stay sane in the meantime.
My ex and I were together for 14 years, and things had deteriorated dramatically over the last year due to both physical and mental illness on his part. Everything came to a head at the same time when he had a serious mental health episode at the same time that I was trying to deal with having met someone else. I broke up with him in February, and he claimed to have not seen it coming. In retrospect, even though I was the dumper, I was obviously unprepared for this breakup on both an emotional and a practical level.
We own a house together (with an underwater mortgage). After the breakup, he told me to get my stuff and get out. Even though I didn't agree that he could throw me out of a house that I co-own, I struggled with trying to be kind to him even in the face of constant assault and badmouthing on Facebook and all sorts of other abuse, including physical threats against the other guy. I tried to ignore it, I tried to tell myself that he was really hurt and that it was my fault and that I just needed to take it and try to be the better person. I've tried not to engage. But, of course it hurts, especially since it's just more of the same emotional abuse he heaped upon me when we were together.
So, in the early days, I did try to get my stuff and get out. Nothing was packed, the house was a mess after months of barely hanging on. The ex decided to be helpful and "pack" which meant heaping things into boxes that wouldn't close. I called upon friends and we got 90% of the stuff out. That was a month ago and I've not done any more since.
He recently extended an olive branch of sorts, basically saying he had come to terms with things. Then I made plans with him to pick something up at the house and wasn't able to make it, and now we're back to nastiness.
So I have these things I need to do and I just don't know where to start, and I don't know how to keep my cool and get things done when I am still so hurt from everything that went down.
Get the remaining 10% of my stuff: This one's not that hard, I can round up some friends and we could make it happen. But the thought of it makes me so tired. The ex refuses to give me enough time to get anything done properly, so another night of running around throwing crap in boxes during the 2 hours he agreed to be gone just sounds terrible to me.
Make a decision about the house: I'm paying half the mortgage, and we can't refinance because we're so underwater. He's adamant about staying, and I think we could find a way to make it work, but I don't even know where to start. This one is kind of urgent, because I can't really afford half a mortgage plus rent on a new place. I'm worried about him really screwing me over here. My realtor tells me that it would have been easier to deal with if we were married, but since we aren't we don't get some of the "perks" that a divorce would provide.
Random other tasks: We have to trade titles on cars, I have to go through years of paperwork and divide it up, and stuff like that. The utilities and other bills were already sorted out with help from a friend of my ex's.
TL;DR: Can you offer any advice on how to get on with the dissolution with my ex's and my former household? Also, can you offer advice on how to kick myself in the ass and stop avoiding him so that I can get this done?
throwaway email: mefi.dumper@gmail.com
My ex and I were together for 14 years, and things had deteriorated dramatically over the last year due to both physical and mental illness on his part. Everything came to a head at the same time when he had a serious mental health episode at the same time that I was trying to deal with having met someone else. I broke up with him in February, and he claimed to have not seen it coming. In retrospect, even though I was the dumper, I was obviously unprepared for this breakup on both an emotional and a practical level.
We own a house together (with an underwater mortgage). After the breakup, he told me to get my stuff and get out. Even though I didn't agree that he could throw me out of a house that I co-own, I struggled with trying to be kind to him even in the face of constant assault and badmouthing on Facebook and all sorts of other abuse, including physical threats against the other guy. I tried to ignore it, I tried to tell myself that he was really hurt and that it was my fault and that I just needed to take it and try to be the better person. I've tried not to engage. But, of course it hurts, especially since it's just more of the same emotional abuse he heaped upon me when we were together.
So, in the early days, I did try to get my stuff and get out. Nothing was packed, the house was a mess after months of barely hanging on. The ex decided to be helpful and "pack" which meant heaping things into boxes that wouldn't close. I called upon friends and we got 90% of the stuff out. That was a month ago and I've not done any more since.
He recently extended an olive branch of sorts, basically saying he had come to terms with things. Then I made plans with him to pick something up at the house and wasn't able to make it, and now we're back to nastiness.
So I have these things I need to do and I just don't know where to start, and I don't know how to keep my cool and get things done when I am still so hurt from everything that went down.
Get the remaining 10% of my stuff: This one's not that hard, I can round up some friends and we could make it happen. But the thought of it makes me so tired. The ex refuses to give me enough time to get anything done properly, so another night of running around throwing crap in boxes during the 2 hours he agreed to be gone just sounds terrible to me.
Make a decision about the house: I'm paying half the mortgage, and we can't refinance because we're so underwater. He's adamant about staying, and I think we could find a way to make it work, but I don't even know where to start. This one is kind of urgent, because I can't really afford half a mortgage plus rent on a new place. I'm worried about him really screwing me over here. My realtor tells me that it would have been easier to deal with if we were married, but since we aren't we don't get some of the "perks" that a divorce would provide.
Random other tasks: We have to trade titles on cars, I have to go through years of paperwork and divide it up, and stuff like that. The utilities and other bills were already sorted out with help from a friend of my ex's.
TL;DR: Can you offer any advice on how to get on with the dissolution with my ex's and my former household? Also, can you offer advice on how to kick myself in the ass and stop avoiding him so that I can get this done?
throwaway email: mefi.dumper@gmail.com
Get a lawyer and have him/her handle it. There are too many legal and financial implications with the house and car, and it would be nice to have a dispassionate third party handle this for you. (standard IANYL) I know this sounds like a nuclear option and will probably make him angrier, but I don't see how else you deal with this stuff. Even if it costs you a couple thousand dollars, it may save you more than that financially, not to mention the mental freedom.
The sooner you get this done the sooner you can avoid him forever and the sooner you can work through the feelings you have about this breakup. The ways things are now, that's no way to live.
posted by KAS at 10:53 AM on June 10, 2013 [2 favorites]
The sooner you get this done the sooner you can avoid him forever and the sooner you can work through the feelings you have about this breakup. The ways things are now, that's no way to live.
posted by KAS at 10:53 AM on June 10, 2013 [2 favorites]
The cops will often send out an officer to stand by for a possession-retrieval, in this kind of situation. That depends on locale, but I have seen it done in Atlanta.
posted by thelonius at 10:59 AM on June 10, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 10:59 AM on June 10, 2013 [4 favorites]
I know this sounds like a nuclear option...
Good point; I wrote something about that in a response to another question. Good lawyers aren't automatically about going nuclear; their goal is to get a favorable result for their client. Sometimes this means being all hell-fired obnoxious, and sometimes it just means giving the client some advice and sending them off on their own. It all depends on the situation and the people involved.
Obviously, IANYL and TINLA.
posted by spacewrench at 11:00 AM on June 10, 2013 [2 favorites]
Good point; I wrote something about that in a response to another question. Good lawyers aren't automatically about going nuclear; their goal is to get a favorable result for their client. Sometimes this means being all hell-fired obnoxious, and sometimes it just means giving the client some advice and sending them off on their own. It all depends on the situation and the people involved.
Obviously, IANYL and TINLA.
posted by spacewrench at 11:00 AM on June 10, 2013 [2 favorites]
Cops for possession pickup, if possible.
Otherwise, take (several good sized or assertive) friends and just. get. it. done.
You need a lawyer for the house, stat. If you're worried about the money a lawyer will cost you, you won't BELIEVE how much you can lose (and be screwed) on that house. The lawyer (or a mediator) can help you with the cars.
Promise yourself you'll take just 10 minutes to sort some of the paperwork.Set a timer. Stop and take a break. If you can't go back to it that day, tell yourself you only have to do 10 more minutes tomorrow. If you find it really that difficult, ask a friend to help you or just sit with you the time you do it. Any friend will give you 10 minutes of their time.
Don't be afraid to ask for help. Make some smaller first steps, (the papers), protect yourself (taking the friends, working through a lawyer). You'll find it gets easier, and easier to distance yourself and get things done.
posted by BlueHorse at 11:23 AM on June 10, 2013 [2 favorites]
Otherwise, take (several good sized or assertive) friends and just. get. it. done.
You need a lawyer for the house, stat. If you're worried about the money a lawyer will cost you, you won't BELIEVE how much you can lose (and be screwed) on that house. The lawyer (or a mediator) can help you with the cars.
Promise yourself you'll take just 10 minutes to sort some of the paperwork.Set a timer. Stop and take a break. If you can't go back to it that day, tell yourself you only have to do 10 more minutes tomorrow. If you find it really that difficult, ask a friend to help you or just sit with you the time you do it. Any friend will give you 10 minutes of their time.
Don't be afraid to ask for help. Make some smaller first steps, (the papers), protect yourself (taking the friends, working through a lawyer). You'll find it gets easier, and easier to distance yourself and get things done.
posted by BlueHorse at 11:23 AM on June 10, 2013 [2 favorites]
Fourteen years would be considered common law marriage in some states. You might need a lawyer to be sure all ties are broken.
posted by Cranberry at 11:59 AM on June 10, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by Cranberry at 11:59 AM on June 10, 2013 [5 favorites]
physical threats against the other guy. Unacceptable. If it happens again, call the police.
I find that having a list helps:
1. We own a house together (with an underwater mortgage). You have no equity in the house, but you still have liability for the mortgage. Talk to a lawyer right away. The sooner you have a legal plan from getting out from under the mortgage, the sooner you can afford the rest of your life.
2. Schedule time & friends to get remaining possessions. ex refuses to give me enough time Tell ex how much time you need to get your stuff from your home. Take a camera and photograph all joint possessions, like furniture, kitchen gear, etc., that he plans to keep, that have value.
3. trade titles on cars. Schedule time & a friend to complete the task. If he owns title on a car you drive, he might choose to make trouble. Don't give him this opportunity.
4. go through years of paperwork and divide it up Nice to get done, but not urgent. Set aside an hour to work on it every week. Once you start, it may go very quickly. Keep in mind that it can be photocopied if you both need a copy. Save anything related to your contribution to expenses for the house and any other mutually owned stuff.
5. Motivation & emotion. I've been avoiding dealing with these issues for months because of how my ex lashes out at me
constant assault and badmouthing on Facebook and all sorts of other abuse
No wonder you want to avoid this mess. It's unfortunate that he has (physical and mental) health issues. Presumably you did your best to help him, but the reality is that he has to deal with his life. Want to be a friend to him? Keep recommending appropriate mental health care. Otherwise, remind yourself that you have to take care of yourself, and that staying around someone abusive is a bad idea. This is one reason people use lawyers - the lawyer can be an intermediary.
posted by theora55 at 11:59 AM on June 10, 2013 [1 favorite]
I find that having a list helps:
1. We own a house together (with an underwater mortgage). You have no equity in the house, but you still have liability for the mortgage. Talk to a lawyer right away. The sooner you have a legal plan from getting out from under the mortgage, the sooner you can afford the rest of your life.
2. Schedule time & friends to get remaining possessions. ex refuses to give me enough time Tell ex how much time you need to get your stuff from your home. Take a camera and photograph all joint possessions, like furniture, kitchen gear, etc., that he plans to keep, that have value.
3. trade titles on cars. Schedule time & a friend to complete the task. If he owns title on a car you drive, he might choose to make trouble. Don't give him this opportunity.
4. go through years of paperwork and divide it up Nice to get done, but not urgent. Set aside an hour to work on it every week. Once you start, it may go very quickly. Keep in mind that it can be photocopied if you both need a copy. Save anything related to your contribution to expenses for the house and any other mutually owned stuff.
5. Motivation & emotion. I've been avoiding dealing with these issues for months because of how my ex lashes out at me
constant assault and badmouthing on Facebook and all sorts of other abuse
No wonder you want to avoid this mess. It's unfortunate that he has (physical and mental) health issues. Presumably you did your best to help him, but the reality is that he has to deal with his life. Want to be a friend to him? Keep recommending appropriate mental health care. Otherwise, remind yourself that you have to take care of yourself, and that staying around someone abusive is a bad idea. This is one reason people use lawyers - the lawyer can be an intermediary.
posted by theora55 at 11:59 AM on June 10, 2013 [1 favorite]
Get a lawyer and go to arbitration. Perhaps you can sell the house in a short sale, or agree to a foreclosure, but navigating this without legal representation will just prolong the contact you'll have to maintain with your ex.
You don't owe him anything. You don't. Just because you broke up, doesn't mean he wins the house. You both need to agree to do something with it, even if that something is both moving out and renting it to a third party. (personally, I'd rather be naked in an open boat than own property with an ex.)
As for getting your stuff, cowboy up and do it. Or, abandon it. It's just stuff. You can always get more stuff.
But you should make a stop at a family law clinic in your area to understand your rights and obligations.
And I'll say this now: NEVER BUY PROPERTY WITH ANYONE YOU AREN'T MARRIED TO! It's just too hard to deal with if you ever split.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 12:02 PM on June 10, 2013 [4 favorites]
You don't owe him anything. You don't. Just because you broke up, doesn't mean he wins the house. You both need to agree to do something with it, even if that something is both moving out and renting it to a third party. (personally, I'd rather be naked in an open boat than own property with an ex.)
As for getting your stuff, cowboy up and do it. Or, abandon it. It's just stuff. You can always get more stuff.
But you should make a stop at a family law clinic in your area to understand your rights and obligations.
And I'll say this now: NEVER BUY PROPERTY WITH ANYONE YOU AREN'T MARRIED TO! It's just too hard to deal with if you ever split.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 12:02 PM on June 10, 2013 [4 favorites]
Get proper legal advice about your rights and obligations regarding your joint finances and get the lawyer to sort it for you. A realtor can only really give you an idea of the value of the property. Your ex has got every right to be upset and it will never be an easy process but you have to be smart here and protect your financial future.
Block him on Facebook and any other social media. Only respond to communications about detangling finances and refuse to engage in anything that is not factual about sorting out your stuff.
Start by going through your papers, with a friend perhaps, and pull together everything you'll need to give the lawyer. That way you can work out if you're missing any vital documents that are still at the house. Also consider if any of the other 10% are really vital. Get friends and police to help you retrieve anything vital before the lawyer contacts him so he doesn't get the chance to destroy them or dispose of them before you can get them.
If this were me I'd focus on getting anything vital and on the house/car situation and write off the rest of my personal stuff because getting the rest wouldn't be worth the aggravation for me.
Good Luck!
posted by koahiatamadl at 12:08 PM on June 10, 2013
Block him on Facebook and any other social media. Only respond to communications about detangling finances and refuse to engage in anything that is not factual about sorting out your stuff.
Start by going through your papers, with a friend perhaps, and pull together everything you'll need to give the lawyer. That way you can work out if you're missing any vital documents that are still at the house. Also consider if any of the other 10% are really vital. Get friends and police to help you retrieve anything vital before the lawyer contacts him so he doesn't get the chance to destroy them or dispose of them before you can get them.
If this were me I'd focus on getting anything vital and on the house/car situation and write off the rest of my personal stuff because getting the rest wouldn't be worth the aggravation for me.
Good Luck!
posted by koahiatamadl at 12:08 PM on June 10, 2013
This must be a nightmare surrounded by minefields.
Truly, you should get someone to describe the legal boundaries you need to deal with. Please don't enlist the help of muscular friends to retrieve your stuff. Imagine the worst: a fight, injury, or even the crushing effect this sort of thing might have on him....people coming into his home (and yours) to force him to tolerate what he doesn't want to happen. Other ways are possible, so it might be good to sort through your options (as you seem to be doing here).
Arbitration may be in order. You'd be surprised how an outside opinion can help clear the air, but don't count on perfect results. Your Ex has mental health issues. That's not your fault, and it won't help you to try to take on his issues along with your own--if you and he are on his side, then no good will come out of it. A lawyer may suggest a slam-dunk approach, where deputies supervise your visits to pick up your stuff, or else his evacuation of the residence you own in common, along with various legal notions (restraining orders, so that you can get the police to help out if needs be).
First, though, the disinterested legal expert will define certain of your options, and handle the necessary procedural things. You are the one who decides among the options: several versions "win." Pick the one that does the least damage to you both. Think of your options as residing along a continuum of harshness: do the least harm, but do what works for you.
I'd be surprised if there's anything there that you can't just walk away from, but your financial intertwining needs to be examined first, to make sure your liabilities are covered.
Good luck.
posted by mule98J at 1:36 PM on June 10, 2013
Truly, you should get someone to describe the legal boundaries you need to deal with. Please don't enlist the help of muscular friends to retrieve your stuff. Imagine the worst: a fight, injury, or even the crushing effect this sort of thing might have on him....people coming into his home (and yours) to force him to tolerate what he doesn't want to happen. Other ways are possible, so it might be good to sort through your options (as you seem to be doing here).
Arbitration may be in order. You'd be surprised how an outside opinion can help clear the air, but don't count on perfect results. Your Ex has mental health issues. That's not your fault, and it won't help you to try to take on his issues along with your own--if you and he are on his side, then no good will come out of it. A lawyer may suggest a slam-dunk approach, where deputies supervise your visits to pick up your stuff, or else his evacuation of the residence you own in common, along with various legal notions (restraining orders, so that you can get the police to help out if needs be).
First, though, the disinterested legal expert will define certain of your options, and handle the necessary procedural things. You are the one who decides among the options: several versions "win." Pick the one that does the least damage to you both. Think of your options as residing along a continuum of harshness: do the least harm, but do what works for you.
I'd be surprised if there's anything there that you can't just walk away from, but your financial intertwining needs to be examined first, to make sure your liabilities are covered.
Good luck.
posted by mule98J at 1:36 PM on June 10, 2013
He recently extended an olive branch of sorts, basically saying he had come to terms with things. Then I made plans with him to pick something up at the house and wasn't able to make it, and now we're back to nastiness.
Why didn't you make it? With these sorts of things, have the time set in stone and be sure to get there.
As for the house, lawyer up. Now. Not later.
posted by Ironmouth at 3:39 PM on June 10, 2013
Why didn't you make it? With these sorts of things, have the time set in stone and be sure to get there.
As for the house, lawyer up. Now. Not later.
posted by Ironmouth at 3:39 PM on June 10, 2013
1) Hire a strong guy--maybe a handyman from the yellow pages--to call him, show up at his door and collect your belongings. Pay him an appropriate amount. If your ex refuses, take him to court.
2) Call an attorney about the house.
3) Call the DMV.
4) If doing 2 and 3 is too difficult for you emotionally, hire a virtual assistant on www.odesk.com to handle the details for you. Sometimes you may really want to get it out of the way but your emotional resentment about the way things ended can keep you from getting it out of the way because you sort of hope that a reconciliation may take place. Even if that's not the case, just pay someone to do it for you if you can't bear the thought of him.
MeMail me with questions. My best friend is a divorce attorney.
posted by lotusmish at 10:43 AM on June 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
2) Call an attorney about the house.
3) Call the DMV.
4) If doing 2 and 3 is too difficult for you emotionally, hire a virtual assistant on www.odesk.com to handle the details for you. Sometimes you may really want to get it out of the way but your emotional resentment about the way things ended can keep you from getting it out of the way because you sort of hope that a reconciliation may take place. Even if that's not the case, just pay someone to do it for you if you can't bear the thought of him.
MeMail me with questions. My best friend is a divorce attorney.
posted by lotusmish at 10:43 AM on June 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
An attorney can also tell you if, under your state law, you just have to suck up whatever abuse your ex wants to mete out, or if you're entitled to a more reasonable disposition.
posted by spacewrench at 10:49 AM on June 10, 2013 [5 favorites]