Help me plan a fair morning pre-school schedule for my 10 year old kid.
May 23, 2013 5:35 AM Subscribe
My kid is late to school more often than I would like, because somehow the morning is never scheduled adequately. I'm not sure how much time is fair to budget her for things - obviously how much time it would take me to do them is too little, but how much time she would like to take to do them is too much. If I have a fair and reasonable morning schedule/wake up time, it might be easier to get her to stick to it and get her out the door. Other morning suggestions welcome.
More details:
She needs to be at school at 7:50. The school is two blocks away, and she must cross two intersections to get there. Both intersections have walk signals. She is independent enough to get there, but sometimes dilly-dallies on the way if there is something cool.
She wears a uniform to school. In theory this should be quick to put on, but in practice it often is not. Particularly the shoes. (Is there a way to get kids to put on their shoes more quickly?)
She needs to eat breakfast. This currently ranges from cold cereal to waffles to fruit. She has eaten yogurt but is sometimes fussy about flavors. If any of those is optimal, please let me know!
She doesn't like to get up in the morning - if I wake her up, I will sometimes come back ten minutes later and find she is still in bed.
She takes a long time in the bathroom. Also, now, brushing her hair. (Oh, pre-teens!)
When she had an alarm clock, it would sometimes work - but she would set it for five in the morning, be perfectly dressed but playing videogames for two hours before the parents woke up and tired and less functional at school. Other times it would just go off for thirty minutes without the snooze button ever being hit.
More details:
She needs to be at school at 7:50. The school is two blocks away, and she must cross two intersections to get there. Both intersections have walk signals. She is independent enough to get there, but sometimes dilly-dallies on the way if there is something cool.
She wears a uniform to school. In theory this should be quick to put on, but in practice it often is not. Particularly the shoes. (Is there a way to get kids to put on their shoes more quickly?)
She needs to eat breakfast. This currently ranges from cold cereal to waffles to fruit. She has eaten yogurt but is sometimes fussy about flavors. If any of those is optimal, please let me know!
She doesn't like to get up in the morning - if I wake her up, I will sometimes come back ten minutes later and find she is still in bed.
She takes a long time in the bathroom. Also, now, brushing her hair. (Oh, pre-teens!)
When she had an alarm clock, it would sometimes work - but she would set it for five in the morning, be perfectly dressed but playing videogames for two hours before the parents woke up and tired and less functional at school. Other times it would just go off for thirty minutes without the snooze button ever being hit.
Does she go to bed at a reasonable hour? Maybe she's staying up too late. I might tie bedtime to getting to school on time- can't drag yourself out of bed in the morning, now you're required to go to bed an hour earlier.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 5:47 AM on May 23, 2013 [9 favorites]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 5:47 AM on May 23, 2013 [9 favorites]
Is she willing to help you figure out timing? I'm not sure why "how much time she would like to take to do things" is too much. Is it because you're just not set up for that much morning time? Is it because if you add all of it up, it would require her to get up at 3 am? But having her help plan a morning schedule might help her get more invested in keeping to it. You can also build in extra time so that if she does everything quickly enough, she can play video games in the morning, which might also help.
posted by jeather at 5:51 AM on May 23, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by jeather at 5:51 AM on May 23, 2013 [1 favorite]
Got an iPad, iPhone, and/or computer?
Basically incentivize it. I found a couple of apps that let me "program in" countdowns from the time I get the kids going to the time we have to be at the bus stop. If the watch alarm (separate from iDevice countdowns) rings while we are at the house, we are CRAZY LATE.
So do "dry runs" on the weekends, to involve her in the process of getting measurements done, and work out a schedule, use google docs (survey) to check off each thing "done", last one being "head out the door 15 min before the bell".
Getting it done = earns something. Not getting it done = loses something. I tend to be trying to break smaller habits and basically fine the kids for specific offenses ($1 when you do X, or 25 cents the first time that day, doubling every time you do it, or fine of $x for gas money to go back and get what you are always supposed to remember every day). In creating smaller habits, we use the checklist .... get X hours of Y done a week and earn Z.
Maybe it's bribery, but it works. I look at it more as incentivizing. We're doing it again this summer with our summer learning; I'm laying out a smorgasbord of things to learn/do, and things they can earn by doing it (new to them books, MineCraft Mods, videogameparlour dollars, date nights with parent of their choice to place of their choice).
You could just start by talking to the school, too, and let her be late the rest of the year ... depends on the stubborness of the kid, though. :P
posted by tilde at 5:53 AM on May 23, 2013 [1 favorite]
Basically incentivize it. I found a couple of apps that let me "program in" countdowns from the time I get the kids going to the time we have to be at the bus stop. If the watch alarm (separate from iDevice countdowns) rings while we are at the house, we are CRAZY LATE.
So do "dry runs" on the weekends, to involve her in the process of getting measurements done, and work out a schedule, use google docs (survey) to check off each thing "done", last one being "head out the door 15 min before the bell".
Getting it done = earns something. Not getting it done = loses something. I tend to be trying to break smaller habits and basically fine the kids for specific offenses ($1 when you do X, or 25 cents the first time that day, doubling every time you do it, or fine of $x for gas money to go back and get what you are always supposed to remember every day). In creating smaller habits, we use the checklist .... get X hours of Y done a week and earn Z.
Maybe it's bribery, but it works. I look at it more as incentivizing. We're doing it again this summer with our summer learning; I'm laying out a smorgasbord of things to learn/do, and things they can earn by doing it (new to them books, MineCraft Mods, videogameparlour dollars, date nights with parent of their choice to place of their choice).
You could just start by talking to the school, too, and let her be late the rest of the year ... depends on the stubborness of the kid, though. :P
posted by tilde at 5:53 AM on May 23, 2013 [1 favorite]
Your kid sounds a lot like my kid, who is also ten, hates getting up, etc. I suggest checking with your GP for physical issues, but that doesn't do you a lot of good right now, nor does it help if it turns out that the only physical issue is that sometimes sleeping at night is hard. (This is the case for both me and my daughter.)
What we've done is this:
We've also had luck letting her listen to music while she gets her morning stuff done, and, as tilde mentions, incentivising things, to some extent. (Her evening computer use is contingent upon getting up.) A reward system for making it to school on time might solve what I see as your biggest problem--the unsupervised walk where she can start watching a snail and get lost in her own mind.
Oh, and finally, on breakfast: we've had great luck lately making homemade Larabar-style snack bars. The recipe I've settled on is 1c ground nuts, 1c chopped dates, 1c rolled oats, and 1c dried fruit, usually plus some cinnamon. Just toss all the ingredients in a food processor and run it for a while, pausing to push things down as needed. Eventually you end up with a sticky paste that has almost a play-doh consistency. Press it into a wax paper lined 8x8 pan and leave it for a while to set up again, then cut it into squares/bars. (We get about 10-12 serves from a recipe.) You can dust them in a corn starch/powdered sugar mix to keep them from sticking together, or wrap them individually in waxed paper. Maura loves them, and they're easily eaten while walking or waiting for the bus or whatever--it's nice to have a backup breakfast, just in case.
posted by MeghanC at 6:05 AM on May 23, 2013 [6 favorites]
What we've done is this:
- to whatever extent is practical, she sleeps in her clothes. This may not work for you because of the uniform, but it's worth considering.
- She has an alarm, but we physically go in and wake her in stages. We have to be out of the house at eight. Her dad goes in at 7:10 and just says hey, time to get up soon. I go in at 7:25 and make her acknowledge my presence, then go back to bed for ten minutes. At 7:35 (or 7:40, depending on how awake I am) I go in and tell her that it's really time to get up. Our psychologist suggested this, and it's not nearly as much of a pain as it sounds.
- As soon as she's out of bed, it's put on clothes, clean teeth, brush hair. This takes about ten minutes. (She's not yet picky about her hair, so maybe allow fifteen minutes for a more image-conscious child.)
- Downstairs, she puts on shoes while I get her breakfast. (She'd get her own, but I'm usually doing things in the kitchen and don't want the extra body in there.) Shoes + breakfast is another ten minutes.
- Putting on shoes always, always sucks. All I can suggest is looking into slip-ons. Sketchers makes some nice slip-on sneakers; loafers or other similar styles may be more appropriate for your situation.
We've also had luck letting her listen to music while she gets her morning stuff done, and, as tilde mentions, incentivising things, to some extent. (Her evening computer use is contingent upon getting up.) A reward system for making it to school on time might solve what I see as your biggest problem--the unsupervised walk where she can start watching a snail and get lost in her own mind.
Oh, and finally, on breakfast: we've had great luck lately making homemade Larabar-style snack bars. The recipe I've settled on is 1c ground nuts, 1c chopped dates, 1c rolled oats, and 1c dried fruit, usually plus some cinnamon. Just toss all the ingredients in a food processor and run it for a while, pausing to push things down as needed. Eventually you end up with a sticky paste that has almost a play-doh consistency. Press it into a wax paper lined 8x8 pan and leave it for a while to set up again, then cut it into squares/bars. (We get about 10-12 serves from a recipe.) You can dust them in a corn starch/powdered sugar mix to keep them from sticking together, or wrap them individually in waxed paper. Maura loves them, and they're easily eaten while walking or waiting for the bus or whatever--it's nice to have a backup breakfast, just in case.
posted by MeghanC at 6:05 AM on May 23, 2013 [6 favorites]
Natural consequences?
What does the school do if kids are late without a note? Let them do that. Detention or something?
Basically, if there's no penalty to not getting ready on time, and no advantage to getting ready on time, she's probably going to...stay in bed. (I know I would.)
(As an example: we used to catch the school bus in. If we missed it, usually because I'd dragged my heels getting ready, our mum had to drive us all the way to school. She did that all of about twice, then the third time she chased the school bus in her car while all the 'cool kids' jeered out the back window. Never happened again.)
posted by Salamander at 6:05 AM on May 23, 2013 [5 favorites]
What does the school do if kids are late without a note? Let them do that. Detention or something?
Basically, if there's no penalty to not getting ready on time, and no advantage to getting ready on time, she's probably going to...stay in bed. (I know I would.)
(As an example: we used to catch the school bus in. If we missed it, usually because I'd dragged my heels getting ready, our mum had to drive us all the way to school. She did that all of about twice, then the third time she chased the school bus in her car while all the 'cool kids' jeered out the back window. Never happened again.)
posted by Salamander at 6:05 AM on May 23, 2013 [5 favorites]
What's the consequence to her for not getting to school on time? Perhaps have a conversation with her teachers. Will she have to stay after school in detention? That might get her attention.
Why shouldn't your daughter be late to school, there's no reason not to be. People are the way they are because there's a reward in it for them. Your daughter is rewarded with your fussing over her, her whole class give her attention when she strolls in late, and with the idea that she can do whatever she wants, whenever she wants and everyone will put up with it. Is that what you want her to learn? Why are you tolerating this nonsense? She's holding you hostage, and you're enabling this behavior.
Have her have a hard stop for when she has to be out of the house and walking to school. No matter what, at 7:35, she's on the other side of the door. Her shoes aren't on? Oh well. She didn't eat breakfast? Oh well. It won't kill your kid to go without breakfast for one day.
I once read about a kid who dawdled around, so one day the family went to the beach. Everyone was ready to leave the house, except this one kid. He was naked. So they bundled him off to the beach naked. He sat in the car all day under a towel while the rest of the family enjoyed the day. Trust and believe that the kid learned that "we're leaving now" means just that.
I have a clock on my sink, I know that if I'm not done with my makeup or hair by 7:50 AM, that I'm going to be late. So I keep an eye on it.
Here's how I'd approach it.
"Sally, you clearly have an issue with your ability to get up, get ready and get to school on time. What do you think causes this?"
Then listen.
"I want to help you, the world doesn't wait for you to get your act together, and the sooner you learn it, the better off you'll be. I'll wake you in the morning, and I want you to commit to getting out of bed as soon as I knock on the door. From there, you need to dress, get ready and eat by 7:35. After 7:35, I will forcibly put you on the other side of the door, in whatever state you're in. I'm not doing this to be mean, but to motivate you to be prepared to walk to school at 7:35. Being late to school isn't an option. If you are late to school, you will have to deal with whatever the consequences are for that at school. Additionally, I'll impose a consequence. I'll reduce your screen time, so no TV or Computer or Phone."
You have to make it perfectly clear that her getting to school is HER responsibility, not yours.
Also, what the hell is up with breakfast. She has to choose from whatever is on offer, if she doesn't like it she doesn't eat.
Do not let the tail wag the dog here or else you will be in a world of hurt for her teen years.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:05 AM on May 23, 2013 [14 favorites]
Why shouldn't your daughter be late to school, there's no reason not to be. People are the way they are because there's a reward in it for them. Your daughter is rewarded with your fussing over her, her whole class give her attention when she strolls in late, and with the idea that she can do whatever she wants, whenever she wants and everyone will put up with it. Is that what you want her to learn? Why are you tolerating this nonsense? She's holding you hostage, and you're enabling this behavior.
Have her have a hard stop for when she has to be out of the house and walking to school. No matter what, at 7:35, she's on the other side of the door. Her shoes aren't on? Oh well. She didn't eat breakfast? Oh well. It won't kill your kid to go without breakfast for one day.
I once read about a kid who dawdled around, so one day the family went to the beach. Everyone was ready to leave the house, except this one kid. He was naked. So they bundled him off to the beach naked. He sat in the car all day under a towel while the rest of the family enjoyed the day. Trust and believe that the kid learned that "we're leaving now" means just that.
I have a clock on my sink, I know that if I'm not done with my makeup or hair by 7:50 AM, that I'm going to be late. So I keep an eye on it.
Here's how I'd approach it.
"Sally, you clearly have an issue with your ability to get up, get ready and get to school on time. What do you think causes this?"
Then listen.
"I want to help you, the world doesn't wait for you to get your act together, and the sooner you learn it, the better off you'll be. I'll wake you in the morning, and I want you to commit to getting out of bed as soon as I knock on the door. From there, you need to dress, get ready and eat by 7:35. After 7:35, I will forcibly put you on the other side of the door, in whatever state you're in. I'm not doing this to be mean, but to motivate you to be prepared to walk to school at 7:35. Being late to school isn't an option. If you are late to school, you will have to deal with whatever the consequences are for that at school. Additionally, I'll impose a consequence. I'll reduce your screen time, so no TV or Computer or Phone."
You have to make it perfectly clear that her getting to school is HER responsibility, not yours.
Also, what the hell is up with breakfast. She has to choose from whatever is on offer, if she doesn't like it she doesn't eat.
Do not let the tail wag the dog here or else you will be in a world of hurt for her teen years.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:05 AM on May 23, 2013 [14 favorites]
Guys, I'd gently point out that as much as it would be awesome if getting to school were the child's responsibility, in many areas, there are very real legal consequences for the parents should the child fail to arrive at school in a timely fashion. Both districts that my child has attended have had policies that if the child is tardy or absent more than [x] times, the police will be contacted. (See also: arrives at school without shoes; arrives at school in inappropriate clothing, etc. Our school has contacted me because my daughter didn't eat breakfast and then got to school and said she was hungry.)
Do I feel that it's a ridiculous overreaction? Yes. Am I willing to risk getting the police involved because my kid has had a breakdown about putting on her shoes or getting out of bed or whatever? No, I am not. I would assume that the OP is in a similar position. It's even more frustrating, really, when you want to allow your child to experience the natural consequences of their chronic lateness, but you can't do so without potentially causing yourself legal trouble.
posted by MeghanC at 6:47 AM on May 23, 2013 [16 favorites]
Do I feel that it's a ridiculous overreaction? Yes. Am I willing to risk getting the police involved because my kid has had a breakdown about putting on her shoes or getting out of bed or whatever? No, I am not. I would assume that the OP is in a similar position. It's even more frustrating, really, when you want to allow your child to experience the natural consequences of their chronic lateness, but you can't do so without potentially causing yourself legal trouble.
posted by MeghanC at 6:47 AM on May 23, 2013 [16 favorites]
My mom helped with my morning routine until I was 18. She would get up every morning at quarter of six, and made sure I was sticking to my schedule, not taking too long. She'd make my breakfast for me, etc. Until I was 18.
I'm now a fully self-sufficient adult.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:50 AM on May 23, 2013 [10 favorites]
I'm now a fully self-sufficient adult.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:50 AM on May 23, 2013 [10 favorites]
The consequences of dilly-dallying should be going to school without breakfast, or going to school with ratty hair, or going to school without her teeth brushed. The consequences should not be "oh well you're late, you don't have to go to history class." Because as a mother of two boys who are graduating high school in a week (woohoo!), I assure you that in a few years, missing history class isn't going to be punishment, it's going to be the goal.
Your job as a parent is to keep your eyes on the prize -- an organized, well-adjusted, self-sufficient adult. If that means being more hands-on in the mornings for a few more years, so be it. And "get up now or you won't have enough time for your hair" is more effective than "get up now or you'll be late for school."
If it's at all possible, double the time allotted for her commute. She may need that blank brain-time after the morning rush to mentally prep for a day of instruction. Two blocks is super-short, maybe not enough time to get in the zone, so build some chill-time into the walk. On mornings she doesn't need the chill-time, she gets to school early. Just so she's out the door at the same time every day regardless.
posted by headnsouth at 6:53 AM on May 23, 2013 [1 favorite]
Your job as a parent is to keep your eyes on the prize -- an organized, well-adjusted, self-sufficient adult. If that means being more hands-on in the mornings for a few more years, so be it. And "get up now or you won't have enough time for your hair" is more effective than "get up now or you'll be late for school."
If it's at all possible, double the time allotted for her commute. She may need that blank brain-time after the morning rush to mentally prep for a day of instruction. Two blocks is super-short, maybe not enough time to get in the zone, so build some chill-time into the walk. On mornings she doesn't need the chill-time, she gets to school early. Just so she's out the door at the same time every day regardless.
posted by headnsouth at 6:53 AM on May 23, 2013 [1 favorite]
Some ideas:
1. Not that there's never any place in parenting for consequences, especially of the natural sort, but it often helps to have an incentive scheme if you're trying to modify an entrenched behavior.
2. In that vein, the older a kid gets, the more they should be involved in figuring out the solutions to their own problems.
Hence, the first place to start would be to have a sit-down with your daughter and brainstorm as to what the major obstacles are for her and how you can address them as a family. Then figure out some appealing incentives for getting herself ready to leave on time (X days of achieving that = Y reward) and natural/logical consequences for failing to reach that target (earlier to bed, earlier to rise seems pretty logical, to me).
On the practical side: figure out together some breakfast options that can be eaten more quickly or are grab-and-go: cereal bars, granola bars, egg mcmuffin, that kind of stuff. If she eats yogurt but is fussy about flavors then just stick to the flavors she likes?
If she needs to get up earlier than you think is necessary, so long as it's not unreasonably early, then let her chose the time to start the waking process. My husband takes 1.5 hours to get ready for work even though he doesn't even eat breakfast at home, and he has to be at work at 6:30 am, which means he has to get up at 5 am or earlier, which I think is ridiculous and stupid and our lives would be so much better if he got up at 5:45 and took a quick shower, threw on his clothes and headed out the door, but he's been doing it his way his whole life and he needs a ton of time to get his mental motor warmed up before he can tackle the day.
So, if she needs a long time to get ready in the morning, that's not right or wrong, that just IS. There are plenty of competent adults who are in the same boat.
With that in mind, figure out a compromise between whatever time you've been trying to wake her recently and her 5 am alternative. Ideally that time should have at least a 15-minute cushion beyond what the amount of time it typically takes her to get ready (not the amount of time you THINK it should take). So, if she needs 1 hour to get ready most days and she needs to be out the door at 7:40, then have her set her alarm for 6:15, if she doesn't get up with the alarm give her a wake up call at 6:25, and if she blows off that one then you stand at her door at 6:30 and pester her and don't leave until she's on her feet and moving.
posted by drlith at 6:55 AM on May 23, 2013
1. Not that there's never any place in parenting for consequences, especially of the natural sort, but it often helps to have an incentive scheme if you're trying to modify an entrenched behavior.
2. In that vein, the older a kid gets, the more they should be involved in figuring out the solutions to their own problems.
Hence, the first place to start would be to have a sit-down with your daughter and brainstorm as to what the major obstacles are for her and how you can address them as a family. Then figure out some appealing incentives for getting herself ready to leave on time (X days of achieving that = Y reward) and natural/logical consequences for failing to reach that target (earlier to bed, earlier to rise seems pretty logical, to me).
On the practical side: figure out together some breakfast options that can be eaten more quickly or are grab-and-go: cereal bars, granola bars, egg mcmuffin, that kind of stuff. If she eats yogurt but is fussy about flavors then just stick to the flavors she likes?
If she needs to get up earlier than you think is necessary, so long as it's not unreasonably early, then let her chose the time to start the waking process. My husband takes 1.5 hours to get ready for work even though he doesn't even eat breakfast at home, and he has to be at work at 6:30 am, which means he has to get up at 5 am or earlier, which I think is ridiculous and stupid and our lives would be so much better if he got up at 5:45 and took a quick shower, threw on his clothes and headed out the door, but he's been doing it his way his whole life and he needs a ton of time to get his mental motor warmed up before he can tackle the day.
So, if she needs a long time to get ready in the morning, that's not right or wrong, that just IS. There are plenty of competent adults who are in the same boat.
With that in mind, figure out a compromise between whatever time you've been trying to wake her recently and her 5 am alternative. Ideally that time should have at least a 15-minute cushion beyond what the amount of time it typically takes her to get ready (not the amount of time you THINK it should take). So, if she needs 1 hour to get ready most days and she needs to be out the door at 7:40, then have her set her alarm for 6:15, if she doesn't get up with the alarm give her a wake up call at 6:25, and if she blows off that one then you stand at her door at 6:30 and pester her and don't leave until she's on her feet and moving.
posted by drlith at 6:55 AM on May 23, 2013
10 is old enough to take tesponsibility for getting up getting ready and getting to school without help. My children were all doing so at that age. I believe it is far easier to instil responsibility at a younger age than wait for battles when they are adolescents.
posted by BenPens at 6:57 AM on May 23, 2013
posted by BenPens at 6:57 AM on May 23, 2013
Response by poster: Guys, I'd gently point out that as much as it would be awesome if getting to school were the child's responsibility, in many areas, there are very real legal consequences for the parents should the child fail to arrive at school in a timely fashion. Both districts that my child has attended have had policies that if the child is tardy or absent more than [x] times, the police will be contacted. (See also: arrives at school without shoes; arrives at school in inappropriate clothing, etc. Our school has contacted me because my daughter didn't eat breakfast and then got to school and said she was hungry.)
Just to explain and avoid more answers along that route: this is exactly the concern. It is particularly salient as I am divorced, though have custody, and anything that makes it to the school that even vaguely smacks of possible negligence might also come up in a court of law later. So as much as it is completely tempting to let her take the consequences of her actions in that regard, I really can't.
posted by corb at 6:58 AM on May 23, 2013 [7 favorites]
Just to explain and avoid more answers along that route: this is exactly the concern. It is particularly salient as I am divorced, though have custody, and anything that makes it to the school that even vaguely smacks of possible negligence might also come up in a court of law later. So as much as it is completely tempting to let her take the consequences of her actions in that regard, I really can't.
posted by corb at 6:58 AM on May 23, 2013 [7 favorites]
My kid is 6, has an attention "issue", and is a boy, so I don't know how much of this applies. However:
From your question, I'm not sure how much supervision you're currently doing over her mornings. IMHO at 10 you still should be doing quite a bit (which, I guess, puts me at odds with the comment above me, but I still think that ten is more "child" than not). Certainly, at a minimum, as the parent, I would:
- Be the one to make sure my 10 year old was out of bed
- Make breakfast
- Provide a very strong "it's time to be out the door RIGHT NOW" reminder.
As to the schedule: work backwards. You and she (should) know how long the walk takes her. Let's say, for example, it takes 15 minutes. I'd add 5-10 minutes to that to arrive "a little early" and so:
7:50: School Begins
so
7:40: Target arrival Time
7:25: Time she MUST be out the door.
7:20: Coat and Backpack time (at my house there is an alarm for this. We use a programmable alarm clock that goes off every morning without us having to fuss with it and doesn't go off on weekends)
7:05: Time be be fully dressed and at the table eating breakfast. (This is an "action point" in our house; one where if the kiddo isn't at the table I suddenly get very involved in the process.)
-- Time before that? Her call. If she wants to sleep until 7 and can be at the table at 7:05, awesome. If she needs to be up at 6:30 (or 6) to do that, also her call. I would let her decide what her getting up time is, and how much time she needs before she arrives on the scene for breakfast. Then I, as the parent, would remind her ten minutes later, and again at 10 minutes to breakfast. (about)
To make getting dressed easier, make sure that part of her bedtime routine is setting out her entire outfit (clothes, underthings, socks, shoes) the night before. That way she can take as much time as she needs.
Then I would Post the final schedule in her room, on a pretty large sheet of paper. Make sure there are clocks where she can see them (ie: in her room, the bathroom, the kitchen), so she can start to learn to manage this, but, again, she's only ten, so it is up to you as her parent to keep her on schedule.
And absoloutely, yes, if she has to get up at 6 or 630 or whatever to make this work, then you and she need to also agree that her bedtime allows her the correct amount of sleep for her. And maybe that means an earlier bedtime than she has now.
I would also make a point to have available some breakfast foods she can eat while she's walking, so if she's running late she can eat on the way.
posted by anastasiav at 7:01 AM on May 23, 2013 [22 favorites]
From your question, I'm not sure how much supervision you're currently doing over her mornings. IMHO at 10 you still should be doing quite a bit (which, I guess, puts me at odds with the comment above me, but I still think that ten is more "child" than not). Certainly, at a minimum, as the parent, I would:
- Be the one to make sure my 10 year old was out of bed
- Make breakfast
- Provide a very strong "it's time to be out the door RIGHT NOW" reminder.
As to the schedule: work backwards. You and she (should) know how long the walk takes her. Let's say, for example, it takes 15 minutes. I'd add 5-10 minutes to that to arrive "a little early" and so:
7:50: School Begins
so
7:40: Target arrival Time
7:25: Time she MUST be out the door.
7:20: Coat and Backpack time (at my house there is an alarm for this. We use a programmable alarm clock that goes off every morning without us having to fuss with it and doesn't go off on weekends)
7:05: Time be be fully dressed and at the table eating breakfast. (This is an "action point" in our house; one where if the kiddo isn't at the table I suddenly get very involved in the process.)
-- Time before that? Her call. If she wants to sleep until 7 and can be at the table at 7:05, awesome. If she needs to be up at 6:30 (or 6) to do that, also her call. I would let her decide what her getting up time is, and how much time she needs before she arrives on the scene for breakfast. Then I, as the parent, would remind her ten minutes later, and again at 10 minutes to breakfast. (about)
To make getting dressed easier, make sure that part of her bedtime routine is setting out her entire outfit (clothes, underthings, socks, shoes) the night before. That way she can take as much time as she needs.
Then I would Post the final schedule in her room, on a pretty large sheet of paper. Make sure there are clocks where she can see them (ie: in her room, the bathroom, the kitchen), so she can start to learn to manage this, but, again, she's only ten, so it is up to you as her parent to keep her on schedule.
And absoloutely, yes, if she has to get up at 6 or 630 or whatever to make this work, then you and she need to also agree that her bedtime allows her the correct amount of sleep for her. And maybe that means an earlier bedtime than she has now.
I would also make a point to have available some breakfast foods she can eat while she's walking, so if she's running late she can eat on the way.
posted by anastasiav at 7:01 AM on May 23, 2013 [22 favorites]
OK, how about this:
Shift her bedtime and her wake-up time earlier until she gets her act together enough to get to school on time. Let her know that once she demonstrates she's able to get to school on time (or ideally that she's ready for school early) you will re-evaluate her bedtime/wake-up time. Once she has an incentive to streamline her morning routine, work with her to suggest things.
That's still a natural consequence but it doesn't involve her having to skip breakfast or look ratty or uncared for at school.
posted by mskyle at 7:09 AM on May 23, 2013 [3 favorites]
Shift her bedtime and her wake-up time earlier until she gets her act together enough to get to school on time. Let her know that once she demonstrates she's able to get to school on time (or ideally that she's ready for school early) you will re-evaluate her bedtime/wake-up time. Once she has an incentive to streamline her morning routine, work with her to suggest things.
That's still a natural consequence but it doesn't involve her having to skip breakfast or look ratty or uncared for at school.
posted by mskyle at 7:09 AM on May 23, 2013 [3 favorites]
I would build the schedule around an absolutely non-negotiable out-the-door time, probably one that gets her there about 5 minutes early on an average day. When that time comes, she has to go. Shoes not on? Better figure out how to do that and walk at the same time. Breakfast still waiting? Eat it on the hoof.
Work backwards from there. Does she have any particular morning task that should take longer than 10 minutes? She needs to put on clothes, brush hair/teeth, eat breakfast, gather her things, so 40 minutes. Give her an extra 10 to dawdle on ONE thing, so 50 minutes, plus however long it takes to walk to school plus 5. Get her up then.
Alternately, get her up quite a bit earlier - like 6:00, even if you have to get up then too - and let her play videogames until sacred leaving time as long as she's done everything she's supposed to.
Start walking her to school, so the out the door and walk time is non-negotiable. Tell her you'll stop again when she's capable of handling her morning routine herself.
One of the best favors you can do her for morning food is not to carb her up. Make mini-quiches in a muffin tin (search here for muffin egg, you'll probably find it) that only need a quick nuke and can be eaten with her hands if necessary, or make a fritatta on Sunday night to eat Mon-Thurs and then have something cooler or Friday morning.
If you want some hard data on how long these things take, institute Timer Week and time each stage of her getting ready process. Figure out where the inefficiencies are to streamline the process. This is a skillset that most college kids take years to learn, so you'll be doing her a favor to work with her on solving this problem.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:11 AM on May 23, 2013 [2 favorites]
Work backwards from there. Does she have any particular morning task that should take longer than 10 minutes? She needs to put on clothes, brush hair/teeth, eat breakfast, gather her things, so 40 minutes. Give her an extra 10 to dawdle on ONE thing, so 50 minutes, plus however long it takes to walk to school plus 5. Get her up then.
Alternately, get her up quite a bit earlier - like 6:00, even if you have to get up then too - and let her play videogames until sacred leaving time as long as she's done everything she's supposed to.
Start walking her to school, so the out the door and walk time is non-negotiable. Tell her you'll stop again when she's capable of handling her morning routine herself.
One of the best favors you can do her for morning food is not to carb her up. Make mini-quiches in a muffin tin (search here for muffin egg, you'll probably find it) that only need a quick nuke and can be eaten with her hands if necessary, or make a fritatta on Sunday night to eat Mon-Thurs and then have something cooler or Friday morning.
If you want some hard data on how long these things take, institute Timer Week and time each stage of her getting ready process. Figure out where the inefficiencies are to streamline the process. This is a skillset that most college kids take years to learn, so you'll be doing her a favor to work with her on solving this problem.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:11 AM on May 23, 2013 [2 favorites]
First of all I just want to say that some of this, a large part of it, is the school's fault for starting at 7:50. We've started to learn in the past few years that kids her age and a little older actually need nine hours or MORE of sleep per night. With homework/sports practice/family time/MAYBE a little fun (?!) it's near impossible to do that. I was an absolute nightmare for my parents to get out of bed and to school on time in the mornings*, so I guess I'll try to describe that for you:
I would not bother with an alarm. First of all, she's only 10, which I would consider a little young to be "teaching responsibility" by having her set and manipulate her own alarm. YOU pick a time that is reasonable to wake her, then ten minutes prior you walk into her room and make it unpleasant somehow (cold wet washcloth to the face is kind of amazing). My mom would throw open the curtains and turn on the lights, and sometimes take away my blanket. Ten minutes later (assuming she is still in bed because kids do that), you go back in there and demand she get up.
As for the hair and clothes, I would do the following:
- Make laying out clothing the night before one of her chores: This means taking every stitch of clothing she intends to wear the next day and putting them in a designated/logical spot. Even with uniforms there are usually SOME decisions in the morning and that's a waste of time.
- Wash (if necessary) and comb out hair at night. Neatly braid the hair before she goes to sleep, wrap in a headscarf if necessary. She should be able to undo the braids and go right to school without more brushing.
Getting dressed and bathroom stuff in the morning is probably taking her a really long time because she is sleeping on the job... I know I would nod off on the toilet or in the shower on a regular basis. Playing the radio or upbeat music helped.
Finally, with regard to breakfast, I am loathe to recommend this, but I was so unable to get ready in the morning with enough time to have breakfast at home that throughout middle and high school my mom sent me out the door with a peanut butter sandwich and a commuter mug of hot tea or hot cocoa. I survived.
*And yeah, as others have mentioned, although I was 100% dependent on my mom to get out of bed/eat breakfast/get to school until I was 18, I am now an independent and capable adult. Being a teenager is HARD.
posted by telegraph at 7:14 AM on May 23, 2013 [5 favorites]
I would not bother with an alarm. First of all, she's only 10, which I would consider a little young to be "teaching responsibility" by having her set and manipulate her own alarm. YOU pick a time that is reasonable to wake her, then ten minutes prior you walk into her room and make it unpleasant somehow (cold wet washcloth to the face is kind of amazing). My mom would throw open the curtains and turn on the lights, and sometimes take away my blanket. Ten minutes later (assuming she is still in bed because kids do that), you go back in there and demand she get up.
As for the hair and clothes, I would do the following:
- Make laying out clothing the night before one of her chores: This means taking every stitch of clothing she intends to wear the next day and putting them in a designated/logical spot. Even with uniforms there are usually SOME decisions in the morning and that's a waste of time.
- Wash (if necessary) and comb out hair at night. Neatly braid the hair before she goes to sleep, wrap in a headscarf if necessary. She should be able to undo the braids and go right to school without more brushing.
Getting dressed and bathroom stuff in the morning is probably taking her a really long time because she is sleeping on the job... I know I would nod off on the toilet or in the shower on a regular basis. Playing the radio or upbeat music helped.
Finally, with regard to breakfast, I am loathe to recommend this, but I was so unable to get ready in the morning with enough time to have breakfast at home that throughout middle and high school my mom sent me out the door with a peanut butter sandwich and a commuter mug of hot tea or hot cocoa. I survived.
*And yeah, as others have mentioned, although I was 100% dependent on my mom to get out of bed/eat breakfast/get to school until I was 18, I am now an independent and capable adult. Being a teenager is HARD.
posted by telegraph at 7:14 AM on May 23, 2013 [5 favorites]
It is particularly salient as I am divorced, though have custody, and anything that makes it to the school that even vaguely smacks of possible negligence might also come up in a court of law later.
I lived in that world too, and the consequence stuff still works, you just need to preempt it with copious documentation. Email her first-period teacher, the principal, the school counselor, and whoever else it makes sense to be in the loop, and say "daughter is getting teenager-ey, her morning routine needs to change, I'm addressing it in this way [x,y,z], I'd like your input as you see many girls going through the same typical changes, I also want to ensure that getting to school on time remains a priority, etc." And then make it an ongoing dialogue with not only a paper trail for court but also a reference for yourself; teachers have tons of good advice. This is very common, and it's also very easy to get isolated -- reach out more to the other adults in your daughter's life, not less.
posted by headnsouth at 7:14 AM on May 23, 2013 [17 favorites]
I lived in that world too, and the consequence stuff still works, you just need to preempt it with copious documentation. Email her first-period teacher, the principal, the school counselor, and whoever else it makes sense to be in the loop, and say "daughter is getting teenager-ey, her morning routine needs to change, I'm addressing it in this way [x,y,z], I'd like your input as you see many girls going through the same typical changes, I also want to ensure that getting to school on time remains a priority, etc." And then make it an ongoing dialogue with not only a paper trail for court but also a reference for yourself; teachers have tons of good advice. This is very common, and it's also very easy to get isolated -- reach out more to the other adults in your daughter's life, not less.
posted by headnsouth at 7:14 AM on May 23, 2013 [17 favorites]
Around our house, we basically needed to remove anything that involved thinking or decision making from our morning routine. Things that have helped:
- we insist that the kids get everything ready the night before - clothes ready, homework in bag, lunches packed, permission forms signed, etc.
- this includes showering the night before
- we set a very firm 'finish' time for all the morning tasks - you need to be downstairs by X time, breakfast ends at Y time, etc.
- a very firm "you must be out the door by X time" policy AND the kids lose privileges for not getting out of the house on time
- all of the kids wear an actual watch on their wrist. It's one thing to have a clock in a room, it's another to have it physically attached to you. This has helped the kids be aware of time in a big way. Cellphones aren't adequate - they get set down in a room and left there.
- clocks in all the rooms, anyway, as backup!
- earlier bedtimes if people are "too tired" to get up at first call/alarm
- for breakfast, all of the kids eat cereal and fruit. Both are chosen on the weekend and there's no variance for the week ahead (so, if you choose Cheerios and a banana, you're eating that all week). Again, NO decisions need to be made.
- no electronics in the morning. None. Nada. Screen time is for after school.
- check lists (when the kids were younger) helped them to keep track of what they needed to do in the morning - breakfast, clear table, brush teeth, brush hair, grab key, grab lunch, etc.
As the kids have gotten older, we've spent time discussing the fact that there are 5 people in our house that need to get up and out on time for school/work and how we all need to work together even if we'd all prefer to just go back to bed for another few hours. This is a good time to talk about the consequences of being late, in general, and about being respectful of other people's schedules/time.
posted by VioletU at 7:23 AM on May 23, 2013 [6 favorites]
- we insist that the kids get everything ready the night before - clothes ready, homework in bag, lunches packed, permission forms signed, etc.
- this includes showering the night before
- we set a very firm 'finish' time for all the morning tasks - you need to be downstairs by X time, breakfast ends at Y time, etc.
- a very firm "you must be out the door by X time" policy AND the kids lose privileges for not getting out of the house on time
- all of the kids wear an actual watch on their wrist. It's one thing to have a clock in a room, it's another to have it physically attached to you. This has helped the kids be aware of time in a big way. Cellphones aren't adequate - they get set down in a room and left there.
- clocks in all the rooms, anyway, as backup!
- earlier bedtimes if people are "too tired" to get up at first call/alarm
- for breakfast, all of the kids eat cereal and fruit. Both are chosen on the weekend and there's no variance for the week ahead (so, if you choose Cheerios and a banana, you're eating that all week). Again, NO decisions need to be made.
- no electronics in the morning. None. Nada. Screen time is for after school.
- check lists (when the kids were younger) helped them to keep track of what they needed to do in the morning - breakfast, clear table, brush teeth, brush hair, grab key, grab lunch, etc.
As the kids have gotten older, we've spent time discussing the fact that there are 5 people in our house that need to get up and out on time for school/work and how we all need to work together even if we'd all prefer to just go back to bed for another few hours. This is a good time to talk about the consequences of being late, in general, and about being respectful of other people's schedules/time.
posted by VioletU at 7:23 AM on May 23, 2013 [6 favorites]
I haven't seen too much focus on the night before. What worked for me in high school was taking care of as much as possible before bed. Lay my clothes and shoes out. Make sure my backpack was packed with everything I needed so I wasn't running around looking for something at the last minute. Have all my toiletries ready - toothbrush and toothpaste, brush laid out. I even chose breakfast the night before and set my place and had whatever was non-perishable out and ready to go. I liked the ritual, and I could just zip through everything , sleep in a little longer and not worry about forgetting anything.
posted by catatethebird at 7:26 AM on May 23, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by catatethebird at 7:26 AM on May 23, 2013 [2 favorites]
how is she at getting out of bed on weekends? If she's up early on weekends and can't get out of bed during the week that's a red flag for me. That means there's something going on - or not going on - at school that she's dreading.
posted by any major dude at 7:34 AM on May 23, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by any major dude at 7:34 AM on May 23, 2013 [5 favorites]
I hated to get up as a kid. Who am I kidding, I still hate getting up. Anyway, my mother dealt with this by making it uncomfortable for me to remain in bed. She would turn the light on, rub my face with a cold wet washcloth (torture!) and then yank the covers off the bed so it was not conducive to sleep. For the days when all of that failed, she would fill a cup with cold water and then douse me with it. That was effective 100% of the time. All of the rewards or incentives in the world meant nothing to me as a kid, the only thing that ever worked was physical discomfort.
posted by crankylex at 7:39 AM on May 23, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by crankylex at 7:39 AM on May 23, 2013 [1 favorite]
I feel your pain...single mom...3 school age kids, etc.
It depends on the kid.
First, you need to sit with her and explain the problem and that you want mornings to be harmonious and calm, not tense and screechy (I'm imagining your mornings might be the way mine were).
Get her input on solutions:
backpack, breakfast readied at night;
if possible, shower and bun or braid before bed;
she gets her own alarm clock, etc.
What ultimately worked for one of my kids was he needed to wake up an HOUR before he had been getting up...he needed that time to pull his fuzzy little brain together.
Alternately, what worked for my daughter was to only give herself 20 minutes from alarm to out the door.
For a 10-year-old, you can definitely incentivize it (and conversely, take things away) if she can pull it together.
But I'd approach this as a solvable problem that she needs to be on-board with solving. Start small...don't aim for 100% on time at first. Let her have success in figuring out how to do this, make her part of the decision-making process, and let her have ownership and responsibility for the whole thing.
Lastly, I work with a lot of kids with Executive Function issues and one thing that helps them immeasurably is having a VISUAL checklist. So there's a picture of a backpack, a yogurt, a hairbrush, her in her school uniform, etc., and sometimes that visual connection (beyond a written checklist) is super helpful.
And if SHE makes the visual checklist, it could only help.
posted by kinetic at 7:48 AM on May 23, 2013 [1 favorite]
It depends on the kid.
First, you need to sit with her and explain the problem and that you want mornings to be harmonious and calm, not tense and screechy (I'm imagining your mornings might be the way mine were).
Get her input on solutions:
backpack, breakfast readied at night;
if possible, shower and bun or braid before bed;
she gets her own alarm clock, etc.
What ultimately worked for one of my kids was he needed to wake up an HOUR before he had been getting up...he needed that time to pull his fuzzy little brain together.
Alternately, what worked for my daughter was to only give herself 20 minutes from alarm to out the door.
For a 10-year-old, you can definitely incentivize it (and conversely, take things away) if she can pull it together.
But I'd approach this as a solvable problem that she needs to be on-board with solving. Start small...don't aim for 100% on time at first. Let her have success in figuring out how to do this, make her part of the decision-making process, and let her have ownership and responsibility for the whole thing.
Lastly, I work with a lot of kids with Executive Function issues and one thing that helps them immeasurably is having a VISUAL checklist. So there's a picture of a backpack, a yogurt, a hairbrush, her in her school uniform, etc., and sometimes that visual connection (beyond a written checklist) is super helpful.
And if SHE makes the visual checklist, it could only help.
posted by kinetic at 7:48 AM on May 23, 2013 [1 favorite]
I vote for more sleep, as well as rewarding the behavior you want while not acknowledging the behavior you don't want. Third, I think it's important that you get your kid checked out not just for physical problems, but for depression as well. She's probably not depressed, but having divorced parents is a common factor, and not wanting to get out of bed is a common thing you'll hear from depressed people. She may not be able to verbalize why she doesn't want to get up and get moving in the morning. It could just be that she needs more time to "power up" in the morning. Maybe she would prefer to start with breakfast. Or a shower. Or 20 minutes with a book she likes. Find out what she thinks about all of this.
For sleep, going to bed earlier is the first thing that comes to mind, but also, how does she do falling asleep? If she feels she takes a long time to get there, try some night time meditation, or a bedtime self talk type thing.
Quit calling attention to the dawdling, how slowly she ties her shoes (or how slowly she does anything, ever. "Doesn't meet expectations" was the refrain of my childhood and I can still hear it in my personal brain tape. You are your daughter's cheerleader, whether you want to be or not.), and celebrate the achievements of each morning, no matter how minor they seem.
Also, gamefication, which might be weird from some ten year olds. But you can maaaaaybe make the morning an obstacle course type fun thing some days? You're the coach with a stop watch! And if she can get everything done before a certain time, she gets something awesome (that she wants, not just something that a grownup decided would be awesome.) Maybe it's zombies, maybe she has a favorite book and would enjoy getting ready in the way that her favorite character does, or eating the breakfast that her heroine or hero would eat.
As for the depression stuff. I'm not saying your daughter is depressed. I'm not even saying it sounds like she is depressed. I'm just saying that sometimes depression manifests this way, and it is your responsibility to check these things out. If it turns out that she is, it's not her fault, it's not your fault. It's not anybody's fault. But, not getting it diagnosed and treated will not make it go away.
posted by bilabial at 7:53 AM on May 23, 2013 [2 favorites]
For sleep, going to bed earlier is the first thing that comes to mind, but also, how does she do falling asleep? If she feels she takes a long time to get there, try some night time meditation, or a bedtime self talk type thing.
Quit calling attention to the dawdling, how slowly she ties her shoes (or how slowly she does anything, ever. "Doesn't meet expectations" was the refrain of my childhood and I can still hear it in my personal brain tape. You are your daughter's cheerleader, whether you want to be or not.), and celebrate the achievements of each morning, no matter how minor they seem.
Also, gamefication, which might be weird from some ten year olds. But you can maaaaaybe make the morning an obstacle course type fun thing some days? You're the coach with a stop watch! And if she can get everything done before a certain time, she gets something awesome (that she wants, not just something that a grownup decided would be awesome.) Maybe it's zombies, maybe she has a favorite book and would enjoy getting ready in the way that her favorite character does, or eating the breakfast that her heroine or hero would eat.
As for the depression stuff. I'm not saying your daughter is depressed. I'm not even saying it sounds like she is depressed. I'm just saying that sometimes depression manifests this way, and it is your responsibility to check these things out. If it turns out that she is, it's not her fault, it's not your fault. It's not anybody's fault. But, not getting it diagnosed and treated will not make it go away.
posted by bilabial at 7:53 AM on May 23, 2013 [2 favorites]
Oh yeah, others above have alluded to it, and please don't feel like I'm dissing your parenting (I know how hard this is), but please consider the possibility that this is a control issue on your daughter's part. She can wind you up and press all your buttons by being a slowpoke, which is a great way for her to be in charge of the household.
That's why it's critical to get her owning and being responsible for solving this in such a way that she sees you're not fussed.
And like all parenting/kid issues, if she's getting more feedback for negative rather than desired behaviors, she's always going to go for the feedback. So you want to reframe that paradigm.
posted by kinetic at 8:00 AM on May 23, 2013 [2 favorites]
That's why it's critical to get her owning and being responsible for solving this in such a way that she sees you're not fussed.
And like all parenting/kid issues, if she's getting more feedback for negative rather than desired behaviors, she's always going to go for the feedback. So you want to reframe that paradigm.
posted by kinetic at 8:00 AM on May 23, 2013 [2 favorites]
My other half recalls the tale of a kid who was too slow at getting dressed in the morning, so his mum ended up dumping him outside the school still in pajamas, along with his school uniform in a plastic bag. He was never too slow getting dressed again, apparently.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 8:06 AM on May 23, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by EndsOfInvention at 8:06 AM on May 23, 2013 [1 favorite]
Legend has it that when my dad was in high school, one of his friends was hard to get up. His mom started keeping a jar of marbles in the freezer and dumping them in his bed if he didn't get up.
posted by bq at 8:10 AM on May 23, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by bq at 8:10 AM on May 23, 2013 [1 favorite]
My kid is the spaciest 10 year old I have ever encountered. She also still has some anger management issues and is prone to crying or yelling when confronted. Not to mention, first thing in the morning when we're all trying to get out of the house is not my prime most best parenting time of day. Here are the interventions we've come up with that are quite effective and have brought morning lateness and breakdowns to a minimum:
- Set out clothes the night before. It's part of our bedtime ritual. She puts on PJs and sets out the clothes.
- The List. On the wall by the front door is a list of everything that needs to happen each morning. Since she's spacey, this list is detailed and includes things like, "put on shoes", but also the obvious, "brush teeth".
- I am responsible for breakfast and lunch being ready. My daughter is now responsible for her own list. I may say things like, "You're in charge of making this morning happen." or "Double check your list." but she knows she's in charge of making it happen.
Our routine goes like this:
7 am - I wake her up (can push as late as 7:20 if she's a little sick or stayed up late for some reason. Or if I am exhausted!) Occasionally she's already up. A little futzing around, bathroom, etc time occurs. I remind her she's in charge of the morning (when I remember to).
7:10 - She gets dressed
7:20 or 7:30 - I serve breakfast. Usually I have time to make a simple hot breakfast.
7:40ish - I remind her she's in charge or to check her list, or she just remembers to check, or just remembers to go brush teeth.
7:45ish - She comes down and gets her backpack together. By this time I have finished her lunch (which I make while I make breakfast) and she can put that, a sweater, her homework, whatever in her pack.
At this point she's ready to go with time to spare to read a book, space out, play, or deal with last minute crises (like when we found out her science project was due Monday, right at bedtime on Sunday night!)
We brush hair in the car since we have a long-ish commute, but you guys could alter this schedule to your own needs.
I do think it's a smart idea to have her create the schedule, if you do time things out as you imagine, so she feels invested in it. My daughter made her own morning list and though she needed supervision to do it, she actually came up with everything on it herself very well. Later a roommate helped her type it up and decorate it and she's pretty invested in her list.
posted by latkes at 8:14 AM on May 23, 2013 [1 favorite]
- Set out clothes the night before. It's part of our bedtime ritual. She puts on PJs and sets out the clothes.
- The List. On the wall by the front door is a list of everything that needs to happen each morning. Since she's spacey, this list is detailed and includes things like, "put on shoes", but also the obvious, "brush teeth".
- I am responsible for breakfast and lunch being ready. My daughter is now responsible for her own list. I may say things like, "You're in charge of making this morning happen." or "Double check your list." but she knows she's in charge of making it happen.
Our routine goes like this:
7 am - I wake her up (can push as late as 7:20 if she's a little sick or stayed up late for some reason. Or if I am exhausted!) Occasionally she's already up. A little futzing around, bathroom, etc time occurs. I remind her she's in charge of the morning (when I remember to).
7:10 - She gets dressed
7:20 or 7:30 - I serve breakfast. Usually I have time to make a simple hot breakfast.
7:40ish - I remind her she's in charge or to check her list, or she just remembers to check, or just remembers to go brush teeth.
7:45ish - She comes down and gets her backpack together. By this time I have finished her lunch (which I make while I make breakfast) and she can put that, a sweater, her homework, whatever in her pack.
At this point she's ready to go with time to spare to read a book, space out, play, or deal with last minute crises (like when we found out her science project was due Monday, right at bedtime on Sunday night!)
We brush hair in the car since we have a long-ish commute, but you guys could alter this schedule to your own needs.
I do think it's a smart idea to have her create the schedule, if you do time things out as you imagine, so she feels invested in it. My daughter made her own morning list and though she needed supervision to do it, she actually came up with everything on it herself very well. Later a roommate helped her type it up and decorate it and she's pretty invested in her list.
posted by latkes at 8:14 AM on May 23, 2013 [1 favorite]
What kids need in order to reliably wake up differs greatly, based on age, personality, sleep habits, and temperament.
For this case, I'd budget 1.5 - 2 hours between initial wakeup and leaving home for school, and if it proves too little time Monday, move the initial wakeup back by ten minutes on Tuesday. For the wakeup, bring breakfast to the kid as: a) an optimization step, b) incentive to wake.
Where they might lose track of time, remind kid to move on ("finish up in the shower").
Also enforce both a quiet time (no computer, no loud music) and a bed time in the evening.
posted by zippy at 8:16 AM on May 23, 2013 [1 favorite]
For this case, I'd budget 1.5 - 2 hours between initial wakeup and leaving home for school, and if it proves too little time Monday, move the initial wakeup back by ten minutes on Tuesday. For the wakeup, bring breakfast to the kid as: a) an optimization step, b) incentive to wake.
Where they might lose track of time, remind kid to move on ("finish up in the shower").
Also enforce both a quiet time (no computer, no loud music) and a bed time in the evening.
posted by zippy at 8:16 AM on May 23, 2013 [1 favorite]
My dad would wake my brother and me up in the morning by coming in and turning on the overhead lights and then singing loudly while getting ready himself. 10 minutes later if we still weren't up, he came in and stole the covers. Still not up? He'd go nuclear and start vacuuming in our rooms, making sure to bump into our beds as often as possible. It is impossible to sleep through vacuum cleaner noise.
By the time we were about 12 or 13 (a little later for my brother) we had figured out alarm clocks and could basically time-manage ourselves.
posted by phunniemee at 8:20 AM on May 23, 2013
By the time we were about 12 or 13 (a little later for my brother) we had figured out alarm clocks and could basically time-manage ourselves.
posted by phunniemee at 8:20 AM on May 23, 2013
I've also found when I have too much time in the mornings I tend to overestimate it, think I have extra time for tasks, and end up drawing them out and being even slower than usual, and then end up running late. It's better for me to have 20 minutes to get ready than 40. Maybe feeling a little more time pressure would make your daughter mover faster.
posted by catatethebird at 8:21 AM on May 23, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by catatethebird at 8:21 AM on May 23, 2013 [1 favorite]
Is she kind of spacey, foot-dragging and non-compliant at other times, or is it just in the mornings?
If the latter, the recent Internal Time: Chronotypes, Social Jet Lag and Why You're So Tired (by an actual sleep scientist, published Harvard UP) has some really interesting perspectives on the circadian differences between "early risers" and long-cycling "late risers," and particularly on how social norms and school times can end up producing phantom poor performance and bad behavior among children whose natural sleep and alertness rhythms just don't gel with the standard academic schedule.
In addition to the great behavioral suggestions above, you might try doing some judicious investigation and tweaking of your daughter's sleep cycles. For instance: is the normal school wakeup bang in the middle of a sleep cycle, so that waking up 30 or 40 minutes earlier, or going to bed at a slightly different time, might actually make her more alert?
Does she get a lot of screen time at night, giving her brain light signals that would tend to shift her sleep schedule forward?
Does she get enough direct sunlight early in the morning, and could you possibly supplement that with artificial (especially blue) light, like the sunrise alarm clock someone mentioned above?
And lastly, does she stay up late and sleep in on weekends? The book I linked above is particularly down on that practice (hence the "social jet lag," since the idea is that it basically takes your body the entire week to reset its cycle backward after you've messed it up on the weekend).
Basically, don't discount the idea that her problems complying in the morning might be biological in origin, rather than strictly behavioral. You could doubtless brute-force the behaviors you want, but doing some troubleshooting of the sleep patterns might help make the whole issue a less painful one for you and your daughter both.
posted by Bardolph at 8:37 AM on May 23, 2013 [6 favorites]
If the latter, the recent Internal Time: Chronotypes, Social Jet Lag and Why You're So Tired (by an actual sleep scientist, published Harvard UP) has some really interesting perspectives on the circadian differences between "early risers" and long-cycling "late risers," and particularly on how social norms and school times can end up producing phantom poor performance and bad behavior among children whose natural sleep and alertness rhythms just don't gel with the standard academic schedule.
In addition to the great behavioral suggestions above, you might try doing some judicious investigation and tweaking of your daughter's sleep cycles. For instance: is the normal school wakeup bang in the middle of a sleep cycle, so that waking up 30 or 40 minutes earlier, or going to bed at a slightly different time, might actually make her more alert?
Does she get a lot of screen time at night, giving her brain light signals that would tend to shift her sleep schedule forward?
Does she get enough direct sunlight early in the morning, and could you possibly supplement that with artificial (especially blue) light, like the sunrise alarm clock someone mentioned above?
And lastly, does she stay up late and sleep in on weekends? The book I linked above is particularly down on that practice (hence the "social jet lag," since the idea is that it basically takes your body the entire week to reset its cycle backward after you've messed it up on the weekend).
Basically, don't discount the idea that her problems complying in the morning might be biological in origin, rather than strictly behavioral. You could doubtless brute-force the behaviors you want, but doing some troubleshooting of the sleep patterns might help make the whole issue a less painful one for you and your daughter both.
posted by Bardolph at 8:37 AM on May 23, 2013 [6 favorites]
If the latter, the recent Internal Time: Chronotypes, Social Jet Lag and Why You're So Tired (by an actual sleep scientist, published Harvard UP) has some really interesting perspectives on the circadian differences between "early risers" and long-cycling "late risers," and particularly on how social norms and school times can end up producing phantom poor performance and bad behavior among children whose natural sleep and alertness rhythms just don't gel with the standard academic schedule.
Yeah, this is me. I was your daughter in school, always zombie-like tired. I remember waking up and sitting down at the edge of my bed and just totally zoning out. I got in trouble for showing up late to my first period high school class once and burst into tears because I was just so tired and had been trying to get there on time. And it continued through the beginning of my working life, until I began to make concessions for my sleep needs.
And now I'm happy, functional, well rested, and with it. I feel good most of the time, in a way that I never, ever did while I was in school. I suspect I have delayed sleep phase syndrome, but I've been able to tailor my adult life around it (through freelance and selecting jobs with later workshifts) so pursuing a diagnosis hasn't really been worth it. Does she seem happier and more grounded over the summers when she can sleep in?
Honestly, if I had a kid who was like me, I'd be looking into less traditional schooling options (homeschooling, free schooling) which would let her get to school when she's actually well-rested. But, baring that, there are some hacks I eventually started using as a teenager. Let her eat a breakfast bar and a banana or an apple on the way to school, which buys her a few more minutes of sleep. And an old fashoined bell style alarm clock with no snooze should help, too.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 8:54 AM on May 23, 2013 [1 favorite]
Yeah, this is me. I was your daughter in school, always zombie-like tired. I remember waking up and sitting down at the edge of my bed and just totally zoning out. I got in trouble for showing up late to my first period high school class once and burst into tears because I was just so tired and had been trying to get there on time. And it continued through the beginning of my working life, until I began to make concessions for my sleep needs.
And now I'm happy, functional, well rested, and with it. I feel good most of the time, in a way that I never, ever did while I was in school. I suspect I have delayed sleep phase syndrome, but I've been able to tailor my adult life around it (through freelance and selecting jobs with later workshifts) so pursuing a diagnosis hasn't really been worth it. Does she seem happier and more grounded over the summers when she can sleep in?
Honestly, if I had a kid who was like me, I'd be looking into less traditional schooling options (homeschooling, free schooling) which would let her get to school when she's actually well-rested. But, baring that, there are some hacks I eventually started using as a teenager. Let her eat a breakfast bar and a banana or an apple on the way to school, which buys her a few more minutes of sleep. And an old fashoined bell style alarm clock with no snooze should help, too.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 8:54 AM on May 23, 2013 [1 favorite]
My son has auditory processing issues. Another way to put that is, "if you tell me what to do in a list, I will only remember the first or last couple things." That's just the way his mind works. He wore a uniform, too, as did his older brother (who had no trouble getting ready). What worked to keep my youngest on track was to set up everything ahead of time,organized so that I didn't have to keep reminding him what to do to get ready, and then keep up a routine that reinforced that.
A place for everything
Put out all the clothes the night before, down to underwear and socks, ready to go on the dresser.
My kids know the back packs went by the kitchen, so we would see them on the way out.
Shoes--it is always ONE shoe that goes missing, isn't it? How does that even happen?!--are in their rooms by their dressers, so they put them on BEFORE breakfast. When they took off their uniforms after getting home, the shoes went back there.
A time for everything
The kids got up at a set time every day. Sometimes my husband or I would have to go in and grumble at them, but we didn't do the reminding them three times thing. Who has the time and energy for that?! More power to you if you do, but I didn't. Plus, to me, that just leads to abusing the snooze button later in life because you know you don't really have to get up right when it goes off (I have been guilty of this myself). I hate getting up early myself and don't do it now unless I have to, but during the school year, I sucked it up and did it, and made sure they did, too. Tear off the covers, whatever, but get her up on time, the same time every day.
As I already mentioned, do NOT leave shoes until last! Tying shorlaces takes forever. Velcro shoes are awesome. We had velcro shoes through the tween years. If you can't find any velcro that work with the uniform, try replacing the laces with the spiral ones that stay in place with just a twist.
We left the house every day at 7:30 because school started at 8:15 and at most with traffic it might take 30 minutes to get there. If the kids are there 20 minutes early? That's okay. Even after my son started driving to school himself, he preferred to get there early.
If we were running late, I'd have them go in and brush their teeth before we left, to make sure that got done. We have electric toothbrushes that make a noise at 2 minutes, so they know how long to brush.
Emergency contingency backup plan
Still, stuff happens and sometimes you still run late. When that happened, we'd do a grab and run breakfast.
Have food like fruit and granola bars that your daughter can eat While she walks to school.
Also, in our state, they provide free cold breakfast for anyone, regardless of income, at the elementary school. Many states have this Free Breakfast Program in place. It was a nice cushion to know that was there. So the kids could at least grab a milk and not go to class with an empty stomach, though I don't think we had to resort to that.
Be EXTRA diligent the day after a "running late" day, so you don't slip up and get in the habit of running late!
Make reasonable concessions to sidestep potential problems for your kid(s)
I also bought an extra belt for my son and kept it in the car, because belts, like shoes, seem to go missing in the morning! I knew he was trying his best, and this was an area where I could help him and avoid extra stress in the morning with a small purchase. In cold weather, I usually had at least one extra uniform sweater in the car, too.
BONUS AWESOME MOM TIP THAT WORKED FOR ME: Homework is done the moment they get home from school, while they are still in school mode. You glance over it and check it off or help with it if necessary to insure it is done BEFORE she plays.
THIS will REALLY help you when your daughter is a teen, believe me! I hear other parents complaining avout their kids waiting until late at night to tell them a model castle and working catapult made only from toothpicks is due the next morning, or just not doing their homework at all. We sidestepped that issue entirely. This is how.
My son in college, off on his own, still cannot stand to procrastinate because of this habit being instilled in him. Yay, unexpected benefit! I wish my parents had done this with me! ;)
posted by misha at 9:05 AM on May 23, 2013 [4 favorites]
A place for everything
Put out all the clothes the night before, down to underwear and socks, ready to go on the dresser.
My kids know the back packs went by the kitchen, so we would see them on the way out.
Shoes--it is always ONE shoe that goes missing, isn't it? How does that even happen?!--are in their rooms by their dressers, so they put them on BEFORE breakfast. When they took off their uniforms after getting home, the shoes went back there.
A time for everything
The kids got up at a set time every day. Sometimes my husband or I would have to go in and grumble at them, but we didn't do the reminding them three times thing. Who has the time and energy for that?! More power to you if you do, but I didn't. Plus, to me, that just leads to abusing the snooze button later in life because you know you don't really have to get up right when it goes off (I have been guilty of this myself). I hate getting up early myself and don't do it now unless I have to, but during the school year, I sucked it up and did it, and made sure they did, too. Tear off the covers, whatever, but get her up on time, the same time every day.
As I already mentioned, do NOT leave shoes until last! Tying shorlaces takes forever. Velcro shoes are awesome. We had velcro shoes through the tween years. If you can't find any velcro that work with the uniform, try replacing the laces with the spiral ones that stay in place with just a twist.
We left the house every day at 7:30 because school started at 8:15 and at most with traffic it might take 30 minutes to get there. If the kids are there 20 minutes early? That's okay. Even after my son started driving to school himself, he preferred to get there early.
If we were running late, I'd have them go in and brush their teeth before we left, to make sure that got done. We have electric toothbrushes that make a noise at 2 minutes, so they know how long to brush.
Emergency contingency backup plan
Still, stuff happens and sometimes you still run late. When that happened, we'd do a grab and run breakfast.
Have food like fruit and granola bars that your daughter can eat While she walks to school.
Also, in our state, they provide free cold breakfast for anyone, regardless of income, at the elementary school. Many states have this Free Breakfast Program in place. It was a nice cushion to know that was there. So the kids could at least grab a milk and not go to class with an empty stomach, though I don't think we had to resort to that.
Be EXTRA diligent the day after a "running late" day, so you don't slip up and get in the habit of running late!
Make reasonable concessions to sidestep potential problems for your kid(s)
I also bought an extra belt for my son and kept it in the car, because belts, like shoes, seem to go missing in the morning! I knew he was trying his best, and this was an area where I could help him and avoid extra stress in the morning with a small purchase. In cold weather, I usually had at least one extra uniform sweater in the car, too.
BONUS AWESOME MOM TIP THAT WORKED FOR ME: Homework is done the moment they get home from school, while they are still in school mode. You glance over it and check it off or help with it if necessary to insure it is done BEFORE she plays.
THIS will REALLY help you when your daughter is a teen, believe me! I hear other parents complaining avout their kids waiting until late at night to tell them a model castle and working catapult made only from toothpicks is due the next morning, or just not doing their homework at all. We sidestepped that issue entirely. This is how.
My son in college, off on his own, still cannot stand to procrastinate because of this habit being instilled in him. Yay, unexpected benefit! I wish my parents had done this with me! ;)
posted by misha at 9:05 AM on May 23, 2013 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: how is she at getting out of bed on weekends?
Does she seem happier and more grounded over the summers when she can sleep in?
She gets up on her own, but generally much later in the morning. When she does, she's actually a fairly together and generally helpful kid. For example, we went camping this weekend and she woke up around nine or ten even though she was up a bit late the night before, and was perky and happy and cooperative.
That's why (though I admit I could be wrong) I really don't think it's a thing where she's just trying to mess with me or get attention - I think it's a really hard time for her, and in the mornings she does in fact complain of being really tired. For example, I will tell her to get dressed, and come in and find her with one sock on her foot and she's staring into space. When I remind her to get dressed, she kind of starts awake and then starts getting dressed again.
Does she get enough direct sunlight early in the morning, and could you possibly supplement that with artificial (especially blue) light, like the sunrise alarm clock someone mentioned above?
No, she keeps the shades drawn so no one can see into her room, so there's very little sunlight. Looking into the sunrise clocks now - if anyone has any recommendations there I'd appreciate those as well.
Thank you so much for the suggestions! Please do keep them coming, I haven't marked any best answers yet because I'm hoping for as much feedback as possible, but there are a lot of useful and great things thus far.
posted by corb at 9:15 AM on May 23, 2013 [1 favorite]
Does she seem happier and more grounded over the summers when she can sleep in?
She gets up on her own, but generally much later in the morning. When she does, she's actually a fairly together and generally helpful kid. For example, we went camping this weekend and she woke up around nine or ten even though she was up a bit late the night before, and was perky and happy and cooperative.
That's why (though I admit I could be wrong) I really don't think it's a thing where she's just trying to mess with me or get attention - I think it's a really hard time for her, and in the mornings she does in fact complain of being really tired. For example, I will tell her to get dressed, and come in and find her with one sock on her foot and she's staring into space. When I remind her to get dressed, she kind of starts awake and then starts getting dressed again.
Does she get enough direct sunlight early in the morning, and could you possibly supplement that with artificial (especially blue) light, like the sunrise alarm clock someone mentioned above?
No, she keeps the shades drawn so no one can see into her room, so there's very little sunlight. Looking into the sunrise clocks now - if anyone has any recommendations there I'd appreciate those as well.
Thank you so much for the suggestions! Please do keep them coming, I haven't marked any best answers yet because I'm hoping for as much feedback as possible, but there are a lot of useful and great things thus far.
posted by corb at 9:15 AM on May 23, 2013 [1 favorite]
As a non-morning person who had to get 3 non-morning kids out the door, there are three things I suggest: consistency, preparation, and consequences.
Consistency means every day is the same as much as possible. Breakfast is the same every day - no choices and no negotiation. Get up at the same time. Clothing is in the same spot. Make your mornings have zero decisions. Making choices when you're tired is frustrating. Does it really matter if she gets oatmeal or yogurt today? No, it doesn't. It's wasting precious morning energy on a non-issue choice.
Prepare everything the prior night. Clothing is laid out including underwear, socks and shoes. Hair brush is on the dresser. Breakfast is on the kitchen counter. Lunch is packed. Knapsack is next to the door.
Consequences. Every minute late goes into her chore bank. If she was 20 minutes late on Monday, she needs to pay back 20 minutes of additional chores. Set a midmorning milestone. For instance, she should be dressed by 7:30. At 7:30, call out the time to her. That lets her know if she's on schedule or needs to speed it up.
posted by 26.2 at 9:28 AM on May 23, 2013 [4 favorites]
Consistency means every day is the same as much as possible. Breakfast is the same every day - no choices and no negotiation. Get up at the same time. Clothing is in the same spot. Make your mornings have zero decisions. Making choices when you're tired is frustrating. Does it really matter if she gets oatmeal or yogurt today? No, it doesn't. It's wasting precious morning energy on a non-issue choice.
Prepare everything the prior night. Clothing is laid out including underwear, socks and shoes. Hair brush is on the dresser. Breakfast is on the kitchen counter. Lunch is packed. Knapsack is next to the door.
Consequences. Every minute late goes into her chore bank. If she was 20 minutes late on Monday, she needs to pay back 20 minutes of additional chores. Set a midmorning milestone. For instance, she should be dressed by 7:30. At 7:30, call out the time to her. That lets her know if she's on schedule or needs to speed it up.
posted by 26.2 at 9:28 AM on May 23, 2013 [4 favorites]
Figure out how long it ACTUALLY takes her to get ready. As in, time her from the moment she gets out of bed to the moment she walks out the door. This will be useful knowledge in terms of helping her set her schedule.
Teach her to use the alarm clock properly. She probably needs guidance for what time to set it for. (Hell I'm in my thirties and still have to think a little about what time to set my alarm for.) I think ten is a perfectly normal age to wake up using an alarm clock -- I think I started around seven?
I'd assume that by her age there are consequences for tardies, no? This is what that is for. If her school doesn't have consequences for tardies, create some yourself and keep reminding her that next year/in two years/whenever, in middle school, you can get DETENTION for this or whatever the consequences are where you live.
In terms of things like dressing and grooming, I think this can be on her own schedule as long as she's getting to school on time.
When I was around her age my mom made it a racing game -- whoever was ready for school first got some token privilege like riding in the front seat or first pick of cereal bowls or whatever silly thing we cared about. That said, I had siblings I was close in age with. Can you find a way to gamify this?
posted by Sara C. at 9:32 AM on May 23, 2013
Teach her to use the alarm clock properly. She probably needs guidance for what time to set it for. (Hell I'm in my thirties and still have to think a little about what time to set my alarm for.) I think ten is a perfectly normal age to wake up using an alarm clock -- I think I started around seven?
I'd assume that by her age there are consequences for tardies, no? This is what that is for. If her school doesn't have consequences for tardies, create some yourself and keep reminding her that next year/in two years/whenever, in middle school, you can get DETENTION for this or whatever the consequences are where you live.
In terms of things like dressing and grooming, I think this can be on her own schedule as long as she's getting to school on time.
When I was around her age my mom made it a racing game -- whoever was ready for school first got some token privilege like riding in the front seat or first pick of cereal bowls or whatever silly thing we cared about. That said, I had siblings I was close in age with. Can you find a way to gamify this?
posted by Sara C. at 9:32 AM on May 23, 2013
Teaching her the skills to be on time will help her all her life. The following assumes it takes 10 minutes max to walk to school.
. She should have an alarm clock in her room. It can be set to music or buzzer; her choice.
. Night before, clothes, hair doodads, backpack w/ homework, shoes, breakfast choice(limited), bagged lunch are ready to go. If this is a problem area, make a checklist.
. She is in bed at least 45 minutes earlier. She can read a book, but no tv or radio. (It's likely she needs more sleep, but it may take days to establish a better sleep pattern.)
. In the morning, give her 1 wakeup warning It's 6:44; you have to be out of bed in 6 minutes.
. At 7, go in and wake her, and she must get out of bed and go to the bathroom, brush teeth, wash face, comb hair.
. Check on her bathroom progress; remind her that bathroom time is done at 7:10.
. At 7:10, it's time to get dressed, and getting dressed time is done at 7:15 - 7:20.
. At 7:20, she has 15 minutes to eat breakfast.
. At 7:35, she must be out the door.
Any missed deadline gets an unpleasant consequence, like losing tv time. (I like this as a consequence because tv is generally bad for kids, so Win.)
Getting to school on time gets a pleasant consequence, like a dollar, book, magazine, bangle bracelet, hair doodad, Matchbox car, whatever will be an actual reward and won't bankrupt you.
Keep track on a calendar. Black mark for late, sparkly sticker for on time. Some number of sparkly stickers in a row gets a nicer pleasant consequence. On time also gets praise. The consequence for being late is Well, that's disappointing. I expect better results tomorrow. To avoid bedtime hassles, I recommend that the tv go off 1 hour before bedtime. At the very least, if there's a show you like to watch together before bed, she must be in pajamas, with clean face, teeth, etc., before that show. When I was nannying, one child found out that the gym was open before school, and the gymnastics teacher was there. That motivated her to set an alarm clock and get herself ready and out the door to get extra gymnastics time. Maybe some mornings of, If you're ready to go at 7:15, I'll drive you and we'll go to McDonald's would help.
posted by theora55 at 10:21 AM on May 23, 2013
. She should have an alarm clock in her room. It can be set to music or buzzer; her choice.
. Night before, clothes, hair doodads, backpack w/ homework, shoes, breakfast choice(limited), bagged lunch are ready to go. If this is a problem area, make a checklist.
. She is in bed at least 45 minutes earlier. She can read a book, but no tv or radio. (It's likely she needs more sleep, but it may take days to establish a better sleep pattern.)
. In the morning, give her 1 wakeup warning It's 6:44; you have to be out of bed in 6 minutes.
. At 7, go in and wake her, and she must get out of bed and go to the bathroom, brush teeth, wash face, comb hair.
. Check on her bathroom progress; remind her that bathroom time is done at 7:10.
. At 7:10, it's time to get dressed, and getting dressed time is done at 7:15 - 7:20.
. At 7:20, she has 15 minutes to eat breakfast.
. At 7:35, she must be out the door.
Any missed deadline gets an unpleasant consequence, like losing tv time. (I like this as a consequence because tv is generally bad for kids, so Win.)
Getting to school on time gets a pleasant consequence, like a dollar, book, magazine, bangle bracelet, hair doodad, Matchbox car, whatever will be an actual reward and won't bankrupt you.
Keep track on a calendar. Black mark for late, sparkly sticker for on time. Some number of sparkly stickers in a row gets a nicer pleasant consequence. On time also gets praise. The consequence for being late is Well, that's disappointing. I expect better results tomorrow. To avoid bedtime hassles, I recommend that the tv go off 1 hour before bedtime. At the very least, if there's a show you like to watch together before bed, she must be in pajamas, with clean face, teeth, etc., before that show. When I was nannying, one child found out that the gym was open before school, and the gymnastics teacher was there. That motivated her to set an alarm clock and get herself ready and out the door to get extra gymnastics time. Maybe some mornings of, If you're ready to go at 7:15, I'll drive you and we'll go to McDonald's would help.
posted by theora55 at 10:21 AM on May 23, 2013
I grew up in a late family (we were ALWAYS late to EVERYTHING). And even now in my mid-twenties I am still learning how to budget and plan my time correctly so I can arrive on time. One thing I learned when I got to college/the real world (leaving the bubble of my family) is that many people are very offended by someone being even 5 minutes late to things.
I'd wake her up at 6:40 (with an alarm and/or you coming in). She'll actually get up at 6:50, spend twenty minutes getting dressed and hanging in the bathroom, then have 25 minutes to eat breakfast, wash her dishes, find her backpack, and fiddle around. Then she can leave for school at 7:35 (training yourself to be 5 minutes early to things is good practice).
As a 10-year-old she probably need to be in bed for about 9 hours a night (she needs about 9 hours of sleep, but she'll spend some time actually falling asleep and she can catch up on the weekends). That means her bedtime should be 9:30 or 10pm (unless she is sleepy earlier). Try to stay close to that on the weekends.
posted by amaire at 10:24 AM on May 23, 2013 [1 favorite]
I'd wake her up at 6:40 (with an alarm and/or you coming in). She'll actually get up at 6:50, spend twenty minutes getting dressed and hanging in the bathroom, then have 25 minutes to eat breakfast, wash her dishes, find her backpack, and fiddle around. Then she can leave for school at 7:35 (training yourself to be 5 minutes early to things is good practice).
As a 10-year-old she probably need to be in bed for about 9 hours a night (she needs about 9 hours of sleep, but she'll spend some time actually falling asleep and she can catch up on the weekends). That means her bedtime should be 9:30 or 10pm (unless she is sleepy earlier). Try to stay close to that on the weekends.
posted by amaire at 10:24 AM on May 23, 2013 [1 favorite]
There are many great answers above, and I've favourited them and want to heartily recommend trying to find the right time in her sleep cycle to wake her - this turned out to be the key to a peaceful morning with my 9 year old daughter. Turns out she wakes up cheerfully at 7:30 and snarly at 8. And we'd been thinking more sleep then was better! She's still the least "morning person" ever - but we no longer have screaming matches.
We did work-backs; streamlined her actions; organized her items; designed an action plan; set an earlier bedtime and used natural consequences and rewards (and we learned she can never deal well with TV/Media/Computer time in the morning - oh, well) and such and it all helped - but there was one thing I haven't seen recommended yet, and it's that you need to be completely up and dressed and ready yourself, if you're not. I find that when I'm ready to go, and the only thing I really have to focus on is getting the kid up and together and out the door, I'm not so frazzled as when I'm trying to deal with my own morning issues too. So most days I'm up half an hour before the family's alarm rings for my lazy coffee and news-reading/watching, then I'm dressed and ready as they're just getting up. It sucks for me, but I'll take the trade-off of less morning stress.
And what I had to do, once I realized this and was able to focus on getter her through the morning, was drill her a bit. Sure, she's 9 and can technically wash and dress herself - but I found upon observation she was doing everything in the most ridiculously inefficient manner. Sometimes trying to get dressed while still under the covers. Pulling up her knee socks by the tops instead of scrunching them down, putting her feet in and then working them up...trying to pull on pants while she was laying down...brushing her hair from the top so it ended in snarls at the bottom instead of starting at the bottom and working up (and now she has short hair)...buttoning shirts while reading books...it was maddening to watch. I had to stand over her for almost a week talking her through the better, faster way to do things - with the book Cheaper by the Dozen as my inspiration. And maybe a little of the Great Santini. So my last bit of advice would be to take some time and watch her, and see where the lag is, and help her learn efficiencies.
posted by peagood at 10:30 AM on May 23, 2013 [2 favorites]
We did work-backs; streamlined her actions; organized her items; designed an action plan; set an earlier bedtime and used natural consequences and rewards (and we learned she can never deal well with TV/Media/Computer time in the morning - oh, well) and such and it all helped - but there was one thing I haven't seen recommended yet, and it's that you need to be completely up and dressed and ready yourself, if you're not. I find that when I'm ready to go, and the only thing I really have to focus on is getting the kid up and together and out the door, I'm not so frazzled as when I'm trying to deal with my own morning issues too. So most days I'm up half an hour before the family's alarm rings for my lazy coffee and news-reading/watching, then I'm dressed and ready as they're just getting up. It sucks for me, but I'll take the trade-off of less morning stress.
And what I had to do, once I realized this and was able to focus on getter her through the morning, was drill her a bit. Sure, she's 9 and can technically wash and dress herself - but I found upon observation she was doing everything in the most ridiculously inefficient manner. Sometimes trying to get dressed while still under the covers. Pulling up her knee socks by the tops instead of scrunching them down, putting her feet in and then working them up...trying to pull on pants while she was laying down...brushing her hair from the top so it ended in snarls at the bottom instead of starting at the bottom and working up (and now she has short hair)...buttoning shirts while reading books...it was maddening to watch. I had to stand over her for almost a week talking her through the better, faster way to do things - with the book Cheaper by the Dozen as my inspiration. And maybe a little of the Great Santini. So my last bit of advice would be to take some time and watch her, and see where the lag is, and help her learn efficiencies.
posted by peagood at 10:30 AM on May 23, 2013 [2 favorites]
I think it's a really hard time for her, and in the mornings she does in fact complain of being really tired. For example, I will tell her to get dressed, and come in and find her with one sock on her foot and she's staring into space. When I remind her to get dressed, she kind of starts awake and then starts getting dressed again.
Well, if you aren't averse to spending some money, and have an iPhone, I have to admit I really like my Jawbone UP and intend to use it on my eldest this summer to check his sleep and his waking. Right now how I use it is to measure my sleep, use the "smart alarm" to wake me up within a timed window, and bug/buzz me every 15 if I'm not moving around in the morning (so even if I turn off the alarm in my sleep I get nudged eventually).
It's not cheap, it's not waterproof, but .... it can give you some data. MFmail me and I can send you screen shots of some of my sleep cycles to show you.
One thing we are focusing on this summer is more self-sufficiency. The kids are on notice they are making their own lunches all summer (camp). Since they have to wear "camp shirts" and bring swim gear most days, I'm setting up a laundry station for them. A place to hang wet things to dry, and snorkels and things so they can collect every thing they need each day.
Additionally, I found a very small three-space laundry basket hamper explody thing. Like this one on Amazon, but SMALLER. Just enough for five days of laundry.
I'll have them presort tops into one slot in their personal basket, bottoms into another, jammies and undies into a third. They both know how to use the washer and dryer (I need to fix an access to soap issue and get a footstool in there) but these sizes will let them run their own loads friday night/saturday morning. We'll work the bugs out over the summer, then roll into using it more in the new school year, too (new building, new bus ride, going with the uniforms look).
posted by tilde at 10:38 AM on May 23, 2013
Well, if you aren't averse to spending some money, and have an iPhone, I have to admit I really like my Jawbone UP and intend to use it on my eldest this summer to check his sleep and his waking. Right now how I use it is to measure my sleep, use the "smart alarm" to wake me up within a timed window, and bug/buzz me every 15 if I'm not moving around in the morning (so even if I turn off the alarm in my sleep I get nudged eventually).
It's not cheap, it's not waterproof, but .... it can give you some data. MFmail me and I can send you screen shots of some of my sleep cycles to show you.
One thing we are focusing on this summer is more self-sufficiency. The kids are on notice they are making their own lunches all summer (camp). Since they have to wear "camp shirts" and bring swim gear most days, I'm setting up a laundry station for them. A place to hang wet things to dry, and snorkels and things so they can collect every thing they need each day.
Additionally, I found a very small three-space laundry basket hamper explody thing. Like this one on Amazon, but SMALLER. Just enough for five days of laundry.
I'll have them presort tops into one slot in their personal basket, bottoms into another, jammies and undies into a third. They both know how to use the washer and dryer (I need to fix an access to soap issue and get a footstool in there) but these sizes will let them run their own loads friday night/saturday morning. We'll work the bugs out over the summer, then roll into using it more in the new school year, too (new building, new bus ride, going with the uniforms look).
posted by tilde at 10:38 AM on May 23, 2013
She gets up on her own, but generally much later in the morning. When she does, she's actually a fairly together and generally helpful kid. For example, we went camping this weekend and she woke up around nine or ten even though she was up a bit late the night before, and was perky and happy and cooperative.
That's why (though I admit I could be wrong) I really don't think it's a thing where she's just trying to mess with me or get attention - I think it's a really hard time for her, and in the mornings she does in fact complain of being really tired. For example, I will tell her to get dressed, and come in and find her with one sock on her foot and she's staring into space. When I remind her to get dressed, she kind of starts awake and then starts getting dressed again.
You might take her to the doctor and get her a referral for a sleep specialist--maybe something like melatonin might help her get to sleep a little earlier. A big part of my sleep problems is that I CANNOT go to sleep early enough to get decent rest to be a morning person (and definitely not a moving-and-learning-at-7-am morning person). Naturally, my body has always started shutting down around midnight or so. And six hours of sleep just isn't enough for me, and definitely wasn't when I was a tween.
Also, if she's willing, a twenty minute nap as soon as she gets home from school might help her be all around more functional. Nothing longer than that, but just long enough to refresh her for the evening so she's not racking up a huge sleep debt.
That staring into space thing . . . yeah, that resonates. Poor baby is tired. I don't know what cruel person decided on the hours for the average public school, but I guarantee they were an early bird.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 10:58 AM on May 23, 2013 [3 favorites]
That's why (though I admit I could be wrong) I really don't think it's a thing where she's just trying to mess with me or get attention - I think it's a really hard time for her, and in the mornings she does in fact complain of being really tired. For example, I will tell her to get dressed, and come in and find her with one sock on her foot and she's staring into space. When I remind her to get dressed, she kind of starts awake and then starts getting dressed again.
You might take her to the doctor and get her a referral for a sleep specialist--maybe something like melatonin might help her get to sleep a little earlier. A big part of my sleep problems is that I CANNOT go to sleep early enough to get decent rest to be a morning person (and definitely not a moving-and-learning-at-7-am morning person). Naturally, my body has always started shutting down around midnight or so. And six hours of sleep just isn't enough for me, and definitely wasn't when I was a tween.
Also, if she's willing, a twenty minute nap as soon as she gets home from school might help her be all around more functional. Nothing longer than that, but just long enough to refresh her for the evening so she's not racking up a huge sleep debt.
That staring into space thing . . . yeah, that resonates. Poor baby is tired. I don't know what cruel person decided on the hours for the average public school, but I guarantee they were an early bird.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 10:58 AM on May 23, 2013 [3 favorites]
After your update, it sounds like your kid really needs more sleep. Does she have a set bed time? Can you move it back an hour or two, but do so gradually?
I agree that working backwards to figure out a schedule is a good idea.
Personally, I cannot get going for the day until I've had breakfast. You might consider trying breakfast in pajamas and then getting dressed. (This isn't for everybody. I know some people can't stomach the thought of breakfast for quite a while after they get up, but for me, trying to do anything before breakfast takes twice as long!) Also breakfast can be really simple: peanut butter toast, oatmeal, cold cereal with milk.
posted by purple_bird at 11:55 AM on May 23, 2013
I agree that working backwards to figure out a schedule is a good idea.
Personally, I cannot get going for the day until I've had breakfast. You might consider trying breakfast in pajamas and then getting dressed. (This isn't for everybody. I know some people can't stomach the thought of breakfast for quite a while after they get up, but for me, trying to do anything before breakfast takes twice as long!) Also breakfast can be really simple: peanut butter toast, oatmeal, cold cereal with milk.
posted by purple_bird at 11:55 AM on May 23, 2013
I'm from an "always late" family too, and I hate it, but don't seem to be able to change the bad habit for myself. So I really really wanted to give my girls another culture, and happily, they are both really good at being on time now at 14 and 19. It hasn't been easy though. First of all - they have been put to bed early, always, regardless of what their peers did or said. Early as in 9 PM, right up till 12 years old. For the 14 year old, it's 10 now. No electronics, but sometimes a book. Even if they shouted "I can't sleep" 20 times, I'd be firm.
Waking up is an hour before school. If I need to go to work the same time as them, I get up 30 minutes earlier, to take my shower and get dressed, maybe even get ten minutes on my own. Otherwise, I wait till they are gone with my own toilette.
At wake up time, I turn on the radio, loud, with boring news-radio or jazz-music. No TV, no computers allowed. I prepare something for breakfast, put it on the table, and start preparing lunch boxes, put them next to the breakfast. For years in a row, the only lunch 14-yo would eat was a pasta salad. Then, she had pasta salad for breakfast too, because anything else would be too complicated. Then I make my own breakfast, and sometimes lunch.
If 14-yo isn't eating 15 minutes before out of door time, I'll call.
"out of door"-time is 5 minutes earlier than necessary, 25 minutes before class starts.
Non of these rules are negotiable, so there is no discussion.
Sometimes, if homework isn't finished by bedtime, I'll wake her up 30 minutes before, or even more, instead of letting her work late. What I'm trying to say is: this has been as much about me working with my morning habits as it has been educating my children. I haven't succeeded in changing them enough to be on time at work everyday, but I have changed them enough to help my daughters.
posted by mumimor at 12:11 PM on May 23, 2013
Waking up is an hour before school. If I need to go to work the same time as them, I get up 30 minutes earlier, to take my shower and get dressed, maybe even get ten minutes on my own. Otherwise, I wait till they are gone with my own toilette.
At wake up time, I turn on the radio, loud, with boring news-radio or jazz-music. No TV, no computers allowed. I prepare something for breakfast, put it on the table, and start preparing lunch boxes, put them next to the breakfast. For years in a row, the only lunch 14-yo would eat was a pasta salad. Then, she had pasta salad for breakfast too, because anything else would be too complicated. Then I make my own breakfast, and sometimes lunch.
If 14-yo isn't eating 15 minutes before out of door time, I'll call.
"out of door"-time is 5 minutes earlier than necessary, 25 minutes before class starts.
Non of these rules are negotiable, so there is no discussion.
Sometimes, if homework isn't finished by bedtime, I'll wake her up 30 minutes before, or even more, instead of letting her work late. What I'm trying to say is: this has been as much about me working with my morning habits as it has been educating my children. I haven't succeeded in changing them enough to be on time at work everyday, but I have changed them enough to help my daughters.
posted by mumimor at 12:11 PM on May 23, 2013
An additional note about the sleep schedule. If she wants a night to stay up late make that night Friday. She can sleep in on Saturday. On Sunday she needs to get up close to the normal time. Have something that you do on Sunday morning: church (if that's your thing), breakfast at a diner, volunteer.
If she's sleeps late on Sunday, then it's hard to go to bed on Sunday night. Which gives her short sleep going into Monday and sets off a rough week.
posted by 26.2 at 1:09 PM on May 23, 2013
If she's sleeps late on Sunday, then it's hard to go to bed on Sunday night. Which gives her short sleep going into Monday and sets off a rough week.
posted by 26.2 at 1:09 PM on May 23, 2013
I had this problem as a child, and we ending up finding out that it was do to old school parental cognitive dissonance and me just doing what my parents said was right. Thank god for our paediatrician.
What we ended up learning is that the idea of breakfast being essential or being the most important meal of the day is only true for some people. The cognitive dissonance is hard for Americans to digest after years of media propaganda, but people generally fall into three categories: people who need breakfast, people for whom it's optional, and people who are negatively affected by eating early. It turns out that if you're in the latter category, eating before noon can turn you into a veritable zombie. Worse, it throws your body off and can affect your day and night cycle, making you a zombie the next morning (where you proceed to have breakfast yet again). For some people, breakfast even makes them nauseous.
My father needs breakfast, so in the vein of "a coat is what a child wears when a parent is cold," he made sure that I had at least something small every morning. I was slow to wake, dazed out, and felt lethargic. I only ever really woke up around noon, and it was forever hard for him to get me to bed at night. Our paediatrician suggested that I stop eating breakfast for a week and see if my situation improves, and low and behold, by the end of the week I was able to get out of bed like a rocket and could be ready for school in a third of the time it had once taken me. I haven't had a problem with mornings since.
What I would consider doing is asking your daughter how she feels about breakfast. Not in a way that suggests that the correct answer is "yes," but more of "does she like it? Does it help her? Does she want it, or is she just doing what she's told?
Historical note:
Ever wonder where the "breakfast is the most important meal of the day for everyone" mantra came from? It all started with Beech-Nut Packing. Around the late 1920's, they were having a horrible time trying to sell bacon. Back then, most people either had a piece of toast and coffee or nothing, unless they did manual labour or some other physically intensive job that required them to pack in as many calories as they could.
Enter Edward Bernays, the man who is most well known for figuring out how to double the sale of cigarettes in the 1930's (hint: it was buy marketing them to a previously untapped group, women, and telling them that it was a way to get more control over their lives an stick it to the men). Bernays was hired to sell the hell out of bacon, so he used the same tactic he did with cigarettes and looked for an untapped market to mine, in this case, breakfast.
He asked doctors which was better, a full breakfast as we know it today or to have nothing? The doctors replied that for many people who work labour intensive jobs, not having a full breakfast could be dangerous, they needed all the calories they can get (in a world before McDonald’s, when calories were much harder to come by for most working class people). Bernays then asked if food such as...say... pancakes, eggs, or bacon could be considered good food to have for breakfast. The doctors answered yes, in the sense that any food that a hard labourer could afford would be better than nothing. And frankly, yes, fried pig fat is better than nothing for a person who is about to plough a field all day.
Bernays' supposed "scientific study" was marketed all over the country as New Important Health Information that said that not eating a breakfast of eggs, cereal, pancakes, or bacon, was the worst thing you could do to yourself regardless of who you are or the job you do. A belief which is true for just enough people to where it became integrated into our culture.
Also, why do we eat toast for breakfast? Well, toast was the original American breakfast food from the early 1900's, so when Bernays' story was first marketed, people just took their original breakfast and added the extras to it. So "toast" became "toast, eggs, and bacon." Bacon sales soared.
For reference, you can hear Edward Bernays tell the story himself here.
posted by Shouraku at 2:10 PM on May 23, 2013 [4 favorites]
What we ended up learning is that the idea of breakfast being essential or being the most important meal of the day is only true for some people. The cognitive dissonance is hard for Americans to digest after years of media propaganda, but people generally fall into three categories: people who need breakfast, people for whom it's optional, and people who are negatively affected by eating early. It turns out that if you're in the latter category, eating before noon can turn you into a veritable zombie. Worse, it throws your body off and can affect your day and night cycle, making you a zombie the next morning (where you proceed to have breakfast yet again). For some people, breakfast even makes them nauseous.
My father needs breakfast, so in the vein of "a coat is what a child wears when a parent is cold," he made sure that I had at least something small every morning. I was slow to wake, dazed out, and felt lethargic. I only ever really woke up around noon, and it was forever hard for him to get me to bed at night. Our paediatrician suggested that I stop eating breakfast for a week and see if my situation improves, and low and behold, by the end of the week I was able to get out of bed like a rocket and could be ready for school in a third of the time it had once taken me. I haven't had a problem with mornings since.
What I would consider doing is asking your daughter how she feels about breakfast. Not in a way that suggests that the correct answer is "yes," but more of "does she like it? Does it help her? Does she want it, or is she just doing what she's told?
Historical note:
Ever wonder where the "breakfast is the most important meal of the day for everyone" mantra came from? It all started with Beech-Nut Packing. Around the late 1920's, they were having a horrible time trying to sell bacon. Back then, most people either had a piece of toast and coffee or nothing, unless they did manual labour or some other physically intensive job that required them to pack in as many calories as they could.
Enter Edward Bernays, the man who is most well known for figuring out how to double the sale of cigarettes in the 1930's (hint: it was buy marketing them to a previously untapped group, women, and telling them that it was a way to get more control over their lives an stick it to the men). Bernays was hired to sell the hell out of bacon, so he used the same tactic he did with cigarettes and looked for an untapped market to mine, in this case, breakfast.
He asked doctors which was better, a full breakfast as we know it today or to have nothing? The doctors replied that for many people who work labour intensive jobs, not having a full breakfast could be dangerous, they needed all the calories they can get (in a world before McDonald’s, when calories were much harder to come by for most working class people). Bernays then asked if food such as...say... pancakes, eggs, or bacon could be considered good food to have for breakfast. The doctors answered yes, in the sense that any food that a hard labourer could afford would be better than nothing. And frankly, yes, fried pig fat is better than nothing for a person who is about to plough a field all day.
Bernays' supposed "scientific study" was marketed all over the country as New Important Health Information that said that not eating a breakfast of eggs, cereal, pancakes, or bacon, was the worst thing you could do to yourself regardless of who you are or the job you do. A belief which is true for just enough people to where it became integrated into our culture.
Also, why do we eat toast for breakfast? Well, toast was the original American breakfast food from the early 1900's, so when Bernays' story was first marketed, people just took their original breakfast and added the extras to it. So "toast" became "toast, eggs, and bacon." Bacon sales soared.
For reference, you can hear Edward Bernays tell the story himself here.
posted by Shouraku at 2:10 PM on May 23, 2013 [4 favorites]
I am a chronically late mother of a chronically late daughter and I am proud to say that we haven't missed the bus ONCE this year! I did it by setting rolling phone alarms for each stage of getting ready. So, at 7:52 the "finish your breakfast" alarm goes off, at 8:01 the "get dressed" alarm goes off, at 8:10 the "shoes and socks, teeth and hair" alarm goes off, and at 8:19 the "coat on, backpack on, out the door" alarm goes off, in time for the bus to come at 8:23. I get her up at 7:30, so that we have ~20 minutes of unregimented time in the morning.
Last year we fought and screamed ALL THE TIME and she was late constantly, and now it's like "oop the alarm is going off, time to get dressed!" and she just does it. Or anyway does it with only moderate prodding. For whatever reason, it's way less stubborn-provoking to have Mom say "my phone says it's time to brush your teeth" than it is to have Mom say "It's time to brush your teeth." (It helps me, too, because I have real problems remembering that all things take time and that time passes, and so I'm like "yay I have 45 minutes to get ready!" for 42 minutes.)
posted by KathrynT at 2:24 PM on May 23, 2013 [2 favorites]
Last year we fought and screamed ALL THE TIME and she was late constantly, and now it's like "oop the alarm is going off, time to get dressed!" and she just does it. Or anyway does it with only moderate prodding. For whatever reason, it's way less stubborn-provoking to have Mom say "my phone says it's time to brush your teeth" than it is to have Mom say "It's time to brush your teeth." (It helps me, too, because I have real problems remembering that all things take time and that time passes, and so I'm like "yay I have 45 minutes to get ready!" for 42 minutes.)
posted by KathrynT at 2:24 PM on May 23, 2013 [2 favorites]
Nthing that getting up that early for some people is torture. I was this kid, and I still can't get up early.
It doesn't matter how much I've slept, that time of day is just the bone zone.
What finally fixed it for me was going to an alternative school where I could start class at 10:15 if I scheduled my classes right. At the absolute worst, I had to be there at like 8:30 two days a week, and I balanced that out with days where I only had classes after lunch and stayed until 5ish.
If there's any local school that lets you pick classes like that to place in a grid, college style, I would immediately look in to that. Even just a place that does late start, which several schools around mine were starting to do when I was in high school.
It IMMEDIATELY solved the problem for me. Id set my own alarm, get up with no real issues, get dressed, grab some food, and go catch the bus. I was only ever really late because of the bus.
I feel like there's some urge implied in some of the posts here that some lesson desperately needs to be taught about how "the world won't change to your needs and wants", when in fact she's going to reach college or the working world and realize that yes, you can work an afternoon or flex time job, or schedule your classes around a later morning schedule and really resent all those years of being forced to get up too early for her. Because I definitely did.
I'd really focus on changing when she has to get up, with making getting up this early work as a temporary solution. Some people just aren't morning people, and I really wish the world would stop treating that like a disease.
posted by emptythought at 3:23 PM on May 23, 2013 [2 favorites]
It doesn't matter how much I've slept, that time of day is just the bone zone.
What finally fixed it for me was going to an alternative school where I could start class at 10:15 if I scheduled my classes right. At the absolute worst, I had to be there at like 8:30 two days a week, and I balanced that out with days where I only had classes after lunch and stayed until 5ish.
If there's any local school that lets you pick classes like that to place in a grid, college style, I would immediately look in to that. Even just a place that does late start, which several schools around mine were starting to do when I was in high school.
It IMMEDIATELY solved the problem for me. Id set my own alarm, get up with no real issues, get dressed, grab some food, and go catch the bus. I was only ever really late because of the bus.
I feel like there's some urge implied in some of the posts here that some lesson desperately needs to be taught about how "the world won't change to your needs and wants", when in fact she's going to reach college or the working world and realize that yes, you can work an afternoon or flex time job, or schedule your classes around a later morning schedule and really resent all those years of being forced to get up too early for her. Because I definitely did.
I'd really focus on changing when she has to get up, with making getting up this early work as a temporary solution. Some people just aren't morning people, and I really wish the world would stop treating that like a disease.
posted by emptythought at 3:23 PM on May 23, 2013 [2 favorites]
I was your kid. I have been an independent adult for more than a decade and I still struggle with waking up and getting around, though I'm doing a lot better with it. I now know that I had undiagnosed ADHD and a very poor sense of time. I still have a poor sense of time, but now I know that and can strategize accordingly.
Here are the things I wish I could give my 10 year old self:
1. An alarm. I didn't have my own alarm until my late teens, and it made a huge difference. Not enough, but huge.
2. The knowledge that I need to wake up about 30 minutes before I actually get up. I can listen to music or talk radio, check email and the weather on my phone, or whatever (no computer, though).
3. Support and understanding that this is a difficult issue for me.
4. That planning backwards trick mentioned above.
5. Some hard deadlines and priorities. Now I know that if it's X time and I'm not dressed yet, I need to forget about mascara and just get the damn clothes on.
6. Getting plenty of sleep.
7. A parent who would encourage me to take ownership myself and help me strategize in a supportive, kind way. My mom and I had hideous mornings together, but once it was over she seemed to forget all about it until the next morning. It eventually became a control issue, where I wasn't going to "reward" her behavior with the desired result.
8. A mini light box to turn on in the mornings while getting around, especially in the winter.
FWIW, I have been facing the "natural consequences" of being late for several years, and it has not helped me one bit. I hate being late and am immensely stressed out about it every time it happens, but that hasn't helped me change. What has helped me is getting a better understanding of my ADHD and how to establish habits and routines, and getting really intense about my sleep habits.
posted by bunderful at 5:16 PM on May 23, 2013 [1 favorite]
Here are the things I wish I could give my 10 year old self:
1. An alarm. I didn't have my own alarm until my late teens, and it made a huge difference. Not enough, but huge.
2. The knowledge that I need to wake up about 30 minutes before I actually get up. I can listen to music or talk radio, check email and the weather on my phone, or whatever (no computer, though).
3. Support and understanding that this is a difficult issue for me.
4. That planning backwards trick mentioned above.
5. Some hard deadlines and priorities. Now I know that if it's X time and I'm not dressed yet, I need to forget about mascara and just get the damn clothes on.
6. Getting plenty of sleep.
7. A parent who would encourage me to take ownership myself and help me strategize in a supportive, kind way. My mom and I had hideous mornings together, but once it was over she seemed to forget all about it until the next morning. It eventually became a control issue, where I wasn't going to "reward" her behavior with the desired result.
8. A mini light box to turn on in the mornings while getting around, especially in the winter.
FWIW, I have been facing the "natural consequences" of being late for several years, and it has not helped me one bit. I hate being late and am immensely stressed out about it every time it happens, but that hasn't helped me change. What has helped me is getting a better understanding of my ADHD and how to establish habits and routines, and getting really intense about my sleep habits.
posted by bunderful at 5:16 PM on May 23, 2013 [1 favorite]
My dad used to get me out of bed when I was a super-sleepy teen by putting a cold wet washcloth on my face. You do NOT go back to sleep after that little shock.
A less aggressive but equally effective method: My parents would come and sing a morning song at me. Since neither of them could carry a tune in a bucket, it was impossible to sleep through.
I think that maybe adapting the pomodoro method might help with the timing of her hair brushing and shoe-tying.
posted by winna at 10:19 PM on May 23, 2013 [1 favorite]
A less aggressive but equally effective method: My parents would come and sing a morning song at me. Since neither of them could carry a tune in a bucket, it was impossible to sleep through.
I think that maybe adapting the pomodoro method might help with the timing of her hair brushing and shoe-tying.
posted by winna at 10:19 PM on May 23, 2013 [1 favorite]
This morning (struggling with my own routine) I had a couple of thoughts -
- a small glass of OJ right when she wakes up - I read somewhere that some folks find this helpful as when they wake up blood sugar is low
- A simple stretching routine that ends with a few bouncy dance moves, to her favorite song. Get the blood pumping and all that.
posted by bunderful at 5:13 AM on May 24, 2013 [3 favorites]
- a small glass of OJ right when she wakes up - I read somewhere that some folks find this helpful as when they wake up blood sugar is low
- A simple stretching routine that ends with a few bouncy dance moves, to her favorite song. Get the blood pumping and all that.
posted by bunderful at 5:13 AM on May 24, 2013 [3 favorites]
I have 10 and 8 year old girls. I feel for you and your daughter – 7:50 is VERY early! My daughters have to get out the door by 8:30. Here are some things we do that help.
Getting enough sleep: My 10 y.o.'s bedtime is 9 and wakeup time is 7. That gives her 9.5 hours of sleep and most days she is able to wake up easily. Like someone mentioned above, we tie bedtime into wake up time. If my daughter has to drag herself out of bed a couple days in a row, she knows that means she will have an earlier bedtime the next couple of nights. We do until she’s gotten rid of the sleep deficit and can get up easily again.
Clothes: laid out the night before. She checks the forecast before bed so she knows what to wear the next day; it helps her feel responsible and empowered :)
Alarm clock: we’ve agreed on 7 as a good wakeup time and we set the alarm clock accordingly. Your daughter shouldn’t be changing the time…if you’re worried that she’s doing that, check it and change it back after she falls asleep. If she’s not waking up to the alarm, perhaps you need a different alarm clock or system (two alarms, etc).
Music: around 7:30 am I put on a bouncy song that she likes. It helps put a spring in her step.
Hair: my 10-year-old is very style conscious and likes her hair to look nice. She has long, thick hair and it’s sometimes a pain, so this is one thing that I help her with every morning. The routine: she gets up, brushes her teeth/uses the toilet, and gets dressed, then before she goes down for breakfast we do hair. It takes only 2 minutes when I do it and she is happy with the result, so it’s a win-win. We use a heavy-duty, good quality hairbrush (makes a huge difference!) and detangling spray to speed up the brushing, and use different accessories for variety.
Breakfast: I have found that if my kids have a breakfast option that they LOVE, they will prepare and eat it quickly. My 10 y.o. LOVES Pillsbury Toaster Strudel. Ok, it’s not the healthiest option, but I let her have it (balanced out somewhat with a glass of milk or banana). Maybe you can experiment with things she really enjoys, and it doesn’t have to be typical breakfast food. Pizza? Hot dog? PB & J? All of these can be made the night before, too and just reheated as necessary.
Good luck!
posted by yawper at 10:38 AM on May 24, 2013 [1 favorite]
Getting enough sleep: My 10 y.o.'s bedtime is 9 and wakeup time is 7. That gives her 9.5 hours of sleep and most days she is able to wake up easily. Like someone mentioned above, we tie bedtime into wake up time. If my daughter has to drag herself out of bed a couple days in a row, she knows that means she will have an earlier bedtime the next couple of nights. We do until she’s gotten rid of the sleep deficit and can get up easily again.
Clothes: laid out the night before. She checks the forecast before bed so she knows what to wear the next day; it helps her feel responsible and empowered :)
Alarm clock: we’ve agreed on 7 as a good wakeup time and we set the alarm clock accordingly. Your daughter shouldn’t be changing the time…if you’re worried that she’s doing that, check it and change it back after she falls asleep. If she’s not waking up to the alarm, perhaps you need a different alarm clock or system (two alarms, etc).
Music: around 7:30 am I put on a bouncy song that she likes. It helps put a spring in her step.
Hair: my 10-year-old is very style conscious and likes her hair to look nice. She has long, thick hair and it’s sometimes a pain, so this is one thing that I help her with every morning. The routine: she gets up, brushes her teeth/uses the toilet, and gets dressed, then before she goes down for breakfast we do hair. It takes only 2 minutes when I do it and she is happy with the result, so it’s a win-win. We use a heavy-duty, good quality hairbrush (makes a huge difference!) and detangling spray to speed up the brushing, and use different accessories for variety.
Breakfast: I have found that if my kids have a breakfast option that they LOVE, they will prepare and eat it quickly. My 10 y.o. LOVES Pillsbury Toaster Strudel. Ok, it’s not the healthiest option, but I let her have it (balanced out somewhat with a glass of milk or banana). Maybe you can experiment with things she really enjoys, and it doesn’t have to be typical breakfast food. Pizza? Hot dog? PB & J? All of these can be made the night before, too and just reheated as necessary.
Good luck!
posted by yawper at 10:38 AM on May 24, 2013 [1 favorite]
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For waking up at a set time, have you tried a dawn simulator clock? A few days of using that and her circadian rhythm should start to reset so that she wakes up on her own at the proper time.
posted by tigerjade at 5:47 AM on May 23, 2013 [3 favorites]