Temp expectations - management-types, can you give me some insight?
May 8, 2013 11:29 AM Subscribe
I'm looking for insight about what is reasonable or "normal" expectations for a temp worker in an office situation.
Here is the situation: temp worker at an agency is called in to do a very basic, no-skill, "paper stapling" kind of position. The assignment has now lasted 7 months and extended until the end of June. After about the first month, the expectations changed from "paper stapling" to slightly more involved but basic work, and finally to "hey, you're pretty smart, help us do complicated math with very little training and an extremely impatient supervisor who dislikes being asked questions."
There was a small rise in hourly pay along with this change, but also increasing expectations to work 10+ hours a day, and sometimes come in on Saturdays. Occasionally, the managers ask the team to come in for extra hours on weekends, and the temp shows up at the office only to find they are the only person who is there, including managers.
Temp is increasingly asked for help with questions from permanent employees about how to do X job, when permanent employees presumably received training for X job and temp never did. Temp is becoming understandably frustrated.
There was the implication of a possible permanent offer coming at the end of June, but temp has reached breaking point due to the hours asked combined with a very long commute. There has not been any solid promise of a future offer of employment, just one vague mention by a manager without direct hiring power.
Temp wants to know if this situation seems business-as-usual to people who see things from the management perspective, or what might be going on to create this situation. Trying to decide whether to remain patient or start looking for a way out.
Thanks for your help.
Here is the situation: temp worker at an agency is called in to do a very basic, no-skill, "paper stapling" kind of position. The assignment has now lasted 7 months and extended until the end of June. After about the first month, the expectations changed from "paper stapling" to slightly more involved but basic work, and finally to "hey, you're pretty smart, help us do complicated math with very little training and an extremely impatient supervisor who dislikes being asked questions."
There was a small rise in hourly pay along with this change, but also increasing expectations to work 10+ hours a day, and sometimes come in on Saturdays. Occasionally, the managers ask the team to come in for extra hours on weekends, and the temp shows up at the office only to find they are the only person who is there, including managers.
Temp is increasingly asked for help with questions from permanent employees about how to do X job, when permanent employees presumably received training for X job and temp never did. Temp is becoming understandably frustrated.
There was the implication of a possible permanent offer coming at the end of June, but temp has reached breaking point due to the hours asked combined with a very long commute. There has not been any solid promise of a future offer of employment, just one vague mention by a manager without direct hiring power.
Temp wants to know if this situation seems business-as-usual to people who see things from the management perspective, or what might be going on to create this situation. Trying to decide whether to remain patient or start looking for a way out.
Thanks for your help.
Best answer: You've described a business as usual permatemp arrangement, although the "coming in on weekends to find no one there" is exceptionally crappy. Oh, and act as though the permanent offer doesn't exist until you have it in writing - because it doesn't, and probably never will. I'd be looking like hell right now in your shoes.
posted by deadmessenger at 11:34 AM on May 8, 2013 [6 favorites]
posted by deadmessenger at 11:34 AM on May 8, 2013 [6 favorites]
Best answer: Not a management-type, but a temp-type here. This is business as usual for certain incompetent and disorganized places (read: most places), but you should not stand for it. This agency and the management are using you without properly training or compensating you. They will continue to do so because you haven't given them a reason to stop. Request a meeting with HR if you're interested in becoming a permanent worker. If you aren't or if you can easily find other employment, walk away.
posted by pineappleheart at 11:35 AM on May 8, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by pineappleheart at 11:35 AM on May 8, 2013 [5 favorites]
Best answer: You are getting paid for these extra hours, right???
First of all, you had the option to decline 10-hour days and weekend work when it was first requested of you, even though you were paid for each hour worked. You were hired for normal hours, you did have a right to say you weren't available outside of those hours. Whether or not it's politic to say that depends on each situation and your individual judgement, but you could certainly have said it.
But that was then. Your situation now is that you are expected to work long hours, and you don't want to do it any more.
Your situation now is also that you were hired to do unskilled work and are now required to do highly skilled work with no supervision and support, and also to train other staff. Your pay has increased, but the increase is negligible compared to the increase in skill level.
What you can do now, is go to your agent and explain that you started working x hours but are now working 10 hours a day plus weekends, and that this is being expected of you as a matter of course. As far as your agent knows, you could be delighted at the opportunity to work more, and therefore to earn more. They don't know you are unhappy with this arrangement until you tell them.
You can also explain that you were hired to do unskilled work but are now being required to do highly skilled work, and also to train the other staff, and you don't think that the very small increase in pay reflects the value of your duties.
It would then be up to the agency to deal with the client, or to instruct you in doing so. How well they do this depends on how good/self-interested/etc an agent they are, and also how confident they are that they can place you elsewhere. When work is thin on the ground, some agents will advise you to stay in a placement even though it's unsatisfactory for you.
The good news is that, as a temp, you don't owe them much notice. If your agent isn't helpful, you can sign up with 10 other temp agents (if you haven't already), and call all of them every day until one of them finds you something new.
posted by tel3path at 11:38 AM on May 8, 2013 [2 favorites]
First of all, you had the option to decline 10-hour days and weekend work when it was first requested of you, even though you were paid for each hour worked. You were hired for normal hours, you did have a right to say you weren't available outside of those hours. Whether or not it's politic to say that depends on each situation and your individual judgement, but you could certainly have said it.
But that was then. Your situation now is that you are expected to work long hours, and you don't want to do it any more.
Your situation now is also that you were hired to do unskilled work and are now required to do highly skilled work with no supervision and support, and also to train other staff. Your pay has increased, but the increase is negligible compared to the increase in skill level.
What you can do now, is go to your agent and explain that you started working x hours but are now working 10 hours a day plus weekends, and that this is being expected of you as a matter of course. As far as your agent knows, you could be delighted at the opportunity to work more, and therefore to earn more. They don't know you are unhappy with this arrangement until you tell them.
You can also explain that you were hired to do unskilled work but are now being required to do highly skilled work, and also to train the other staff, and you don't think that the very small increase in pay reflects the value of your duties.
It would then be up to the agency to deal with the client, or to instruct you in doing so. How well they do this depends on how good/self-interested/etc an agent they are, and also how confident they are that they can place you elsewhere. When work is thin on the ground, some agents will advise you to stay in a placement even though it's unsatisfactory for you.
The good news is that, as a temp, you don't owe them much notice. If your agent isn't helpful, you can sign up with 10 other temp agents (if you haven't already), and call all of them every day until one of them finds you something new.
posted by tel3path at 11:38 AM on May 8, 2013 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: (Yes, getting paid overtime for the extra hours worked. Overtime is desirable, but not at the expense of mental health. Thank you for all your answers so far.)
posted by Ouisch at 11:40 AM on May 8, 2013
posted by Ouisch at 11:40 AM on May 8, 2013
Best answer: This is an unfair thing that happens. Mention that you're going out for an interview for a full-time job (maybe ask your manager if you can use them as a reference) and see how they react. If nothing happens after that, nothing is going to change.
posted by Garm at 11:45 AM on May 8, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by Garm at 11:45 AM on May 8, 2013 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Were your additional hour expectations ever outlined in an updated temp contract or agreement?
If not you can just go to management and say you weren't expected to work those long hours, or required to. If it's not in writing I don't think you really "agreed" to it formally, even if you agreed to it verbally. That should mean you have wiggle room to reduce your hours. ("It's not outlined in my job description, and I would like to go back to more standard hours.")
I also agree you should discuss that you need additional training if you are expected to do certain work that other workers were trained for.
posted by Crystalinne at 11:45 AM on May 8, 2013
If not you can just go to management and say you weren't expected to work those long hours, or required to. If it's not in writing I don't think you really "agreed" to it formally, even if you agreed to it verbally. That should mean you have wiggle room to reduce your hours. ("It's not outlined in my job description, and I would like to go back to more standard hours.")
I also agree you should discuss that you need additional training if you are expected to do certain work that other workers were trained for.
posted by Crystalinne at 11:45 AM on May 8, 2013
Best answer: Totally 100% normal. My last temp job was with a company that seemed to tender job offers to the temporary staff immediately after raises were issued for the year, so new employees would have to work at their initial salary for as long as possible before receiving a cost of living adjustment. This meant that temps who began in October weren't offered a job for 10-11 months. It was actually a mixed blessing, because permanent employees were exempt employees, and had to work the same 50+ hour weeks without overtime pay. This usually resulted in a de facto 20% pay cut (though the deal was sweetened by health insurance and a retirement plan).
posted by pullayup at 11:46 AM on May 8, 2013
posted by pullayup at 11:46 AM on May 8, 2013
Best answer: As others have mentioned, this sounds like a disfunctional company. The way you're being treated isn't uncommon either. I would suggest talking to your agency about the situation and perhaps asking for a new assignment. It also sounds like you have gained a bunch of new skills that you could put on a resume for a better job. I wouldn't be surprised if the offer from your company ever comes through. I know at some places, even if the manager wants to hire you permanently, HR is often a barrier in terms of shear laziness of the employees to fill out basic paper work.
posted by parakeetdog at 11:47 AM on May 8, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by parakeetdog at 11:47 AM on May 8, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Definitely talk to your agency. They're providing a product to the company, which is you. They're providing you at a certain rate based on the work you're doing. If you're doing advanced work way above your paygrade, your agency is getting ripped off. They will want you to either get paid what you're worth or go work somewhere where you can get paid for what you're worth. Talk to them, they are your allies here.
posted by bleep at 11:50 AM on May 8, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by bleep at 11:50 AM on May 8, 2013 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I'm looking at this from a business perspective, and it is not intended to hurt you.
basic, no-skill, "paper stapling" kind of position
The company needs someone to staple papers at little cost. They have hundreds of papers, so it could take months, years, whatever. But there objective is likely to be low cost.
There was the implication of a possible permanent offer coming at the end of June, but temp has reached breaking point due to the hours asked combined with a very long commute. There has not been any solid promise of a future offer of employment, just one vague mention by a manager without direct hiring power.
This is an exchange for money, so the commute time does not reflect on them.
If I were in your shoes, approach someone at your company(HR? Manager?) and mention that you are looking for a full-time position. Listen to what they say (give them one chance to correct it), but it sounds like there are no actual requests, so state what you want. Do it politely and you are just stating an intent.
If no changes happen, then look for another job. Don't do more hours, cap it at whatever number of hours you need to work and stop. Spend all your other hours either 1) looking for a full-time job,with a shorter commute or 2) looking for other temp positions if it is what you prefer.
But you have not invested in them and they really have not invested in you. This is not an obligatory they see you and they give you a job. Ask for what you want and if they are not likely to give it to you, move on. There are other jobs out there. Good luck.
posted by Wolfster at 11:54 AM on May 8, 2013
basic, no-skill, "paper stapling" kind of position
The company needs someone to staple papers at little cost. They have hundreds of papers, so it could take months, years, whatever. But there objective is likely to be low cost.
There was the implication of a possible permanent offer coming at the end of June, but temp has reached breaking point due to the hours asked combined with a very long commute. There has not been any solid promise of a future offer of employment, just one vague mention by a manager without direct hiring power.
This is an exchange for money, so the commute time does not reflect on them.
If I were in your shoes, approach someone at your company(HR? Manager?) and mention that you are looking for a full-time position. Listen to what they say (give them one chance to correct it), but it sounds like there are no actual requests, so state what you want. Do it politely and you are just stating an intent.
If no changes happen, then look for another job. Don't do more hours, cap it at whatever number of hours you need to work and stop. Spend all your other hours either 1) looking for a full-time job,with a shorter commute or 2) looking for other temp positions if it is what you prefer.
But you have not invested in them and they really have not invested in you. This is not an obligatory they see you and they give you a job. Ask for what you want and if they are not likely to give it to you, move on. There are other jobs out there. Good luck.
posted by Wolfster at 11:54 AM on May 8, 2013
Best answer: Not a management-type, but a temp-type here. This is business as usual for certain incompetent and disorganized places (read: most places), but you should not stand for it.
Agree with this. (Also from the temp side.)
IME almost all employers of temps will do this to some extent. Your place is somewhat extreme due to the weekends, but not unusual in general. I would just add that the temp should remind the management to look at their contract with the agency if they're talking about temp-to-perm. I've had companies express some desire to hire me permanently until they remembered the fee they'd have to pay to do so. Then they wanted to hire me permanently for $10K less than they would have paid someone else. (Which is a lot when you're asking for, say, $30K/year.)
If I were the temp here, I'd absolutely ask the agency for another assignment. This sort of thing has never turned out to be worth it to me in any way.
posted by DestinationUnknown at 11:57 AM on May 8, 2013 [3 favorites]
Agree with this. (Also from the temp side.)
IME almost all employers of temps will do this to some extent. Your place is somewhat extreme due to the weekends, but not unusual in general. I would just add that the temp should remind the management to look at their contract with the agency if they're talking about temp-to-perm. I've had companies express some desire to hire me permanently until they remembered the fee they'd have to pay to do so. Then they wanted to hire me permanently for $10K less than they would have paid someone else. (Which is a lot when you're asking for, say, $30K/year.)
If I were the temp here, I'd absolutely ask the agency for another assignment. This sort of thing has never turned out to be worth it to me in any way.
posted by DestinationUnknown at 11:57 AM on May 8, 2013 [3 favorites]
Best answer: It sounds like you don't like this assignment anymore. Call the agency and tell them that you'd like a new assignment, and/or, sign up with a new agency, and/or get a new job.
Don't audition for a "possible permanant" job. Cut off at 40 hours, don't come in on weekends, and if you're being asked to do more skilled work than was originally negotiated for, call your agency and let them know so that you can BOTH make more money off of that.
Managers will dangle a carrot in front of someone if they think it will work to get that person to do more, and tragically, most of us will beat our brains in "for the team" all the while the manager is patting him or herself on the back for being so shrewd with resourses.
As a temp, you can decline anything, AND, they can tell you to leave, AND you can go to Unemployment and sign up.
Isn't free market economics awesome? :-P
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 12:00 PM on May 8, 2013 [3 favorites]
Don't audition for a "possible permanant" job. Cut off at 40 hours, don't come in on weekends, and if you're being asked to do more skilled work than was originally negotiated for, call your agency and let them know so that you can BOTH make more money off of that.
Managers will dangle a carrot in front of someone if they think it will work to get that person to do more, and tragically, most of us will beat our brains in "for the team" all the while the manager is patting him or herself on the back for being so shrewd with resourses.
As a temp, you can decline anything, AND, they can tell you to leave, AND you can go to Unemployment and sign up.
Isn't free market economics awesome? :-P
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 12:00 PM on May 8, 2013 [3 favorites]
Best answer: I really do think you are better off aggressively looking for another assignment than trying to fix this one.
The point of temp arrangements is that neither side owes the other more than the bare minimum. Remember, you owe them exactly as much as they owe you. You could argue that they owe you a better hourly rate, but if the agency doesn't advocate that position for you, it won't improve your situation.
There's really no reason to get attached to them, get sidetracked into trying to fix things, or hold out waiting for them to make good on vague promises.
The very best thing you can do for yourself is find another assignment through other agencies. If you can't find another assignment, that's harsh, but at least you'll know what side your bread's buttered on. Sometimes work is very scarce and you have to take what's available.
But, in general, I will tell you that you should never allow people to string you along. People who string you along, by definition, have nothing to offer you. If they did they wouldn't be stringing you along.
That's the basic truth of the matter. Now, I know in theory it should be possible to mentally shut off the hope of them ever coming through for me, and I should just be able to take what I need from the interaction and leave the rest. In practice, though, I just find it unbearably provocative that someone would keep on and on cat stringing instead of admitting they probably won't be able to offer whatever it is, and I've never had a relationship of any kind, business or personal, that's recovered from it.
posted by tel3path at 12:10 PM on May 8, 2013 [3 favorites]
The point of temp arrangements is that neither side owes the other more than the bare minimum. Remember, you owe them exactly as much as they owe you. You could argue that they owe you a better hourly rate, but if the agency doesn't advocate that position for you, it won't improve your situation.
There's really no reason to get attached to them, get sidetracked into trying to fix things, or hold out waiting for them to make good on vague promises.
The very best thing you can do for yourself is find another assignment through other agencies. If you can't find another assignment, that's harsh, but at least you'll know what side your bread's buttered on. Sometimes work is very scarce and you have to take what's available.
But, in general, I will tell you that you should never allow people to string you along. People who string you along, by definition, have nothing to offer you. If they did they wouldn't be stringing you along.
That's the basic truth of the matter. Now, I know in theory it should be possible to mentally shut off the hope of them ever coming through for me, and I should just be able to take what I need from the interaction and leave the rest. In practice, though, I just find it unbearably provocative that someone would keep on and on cat stringing instead of admitting they probably won't be able to offer whatever it is, and I've never had a relationship of any kind, business or personal, that's recovered from it.
posted by tel3path at 12:10 PM on May 8, 2013 [3 favorites]
Best answer: One thing to consider is that you get paid overtime and it's likely the rest of the staff is salaried. They are asking you to work overtime versus asking salaried staff to work uncompensated time. Regarding questions from coworkers you're paid to be there and you know how to do things. If someone asks you for help that's part of the job. There's really not a good reason to be so angry about it.
This job seems like a bad fit for you because of the commute and the expectations (yours and theirs).
Call your agency and find another gig. If at all possible, find something closer to home. Commute hours cut into your wages and more importantly your happiness.
posted by 26.2 at 12:10 PM on May 8, 2013
This job seems like a bad fit for you because of the commute and the expectations (yours and theirs).
Call your agency and find another gig. If at all possible, find something closer to home. Commute hours cut into your wages and more importantly your happiness.
posted by 26.2 at 12:10 PM on May 8, 2013
Response by poster: Regarding the questions being asked by permanent employees, I don't think the temp is angry at being asked to help answer questions, but rather that they are being asked questions they cannot possibly know the answers to since they were not trained for that job. The company seem to be expecting the temp to know things that their own employees don't know.
posted by Ouisch at 12:14 PM on May 8, 2013
posted by Ouisch at 12:14 PM on May 8, 2013
Best answer: Would you *want* a permanent job at this place? Because it sounds pretty awful. I would not assume that conditions will improve if you become a permanent worker - once you've taken on the role of "the person who comes in on the weekend" it's very hard to get out of it. Talk to your agency about getting another assignment.
posted by mskyle at 12:15 PM on May 8, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by mskyle at 12:15 PM on May 8, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I would check with your agency about this and see what they say. I did that a couple times when I was a temp and my duties changed - one time they did say "it's not that much outside the scope of what you've been doing, so ....sucks but it's part of the gig," but another time they said "yeah, that's kinda weird - we'll give them a call and say they have to give you a raise."
The thing is that as a temp, your boss is actually the temp agency. So you have the right to clue your agency in and check with them about "hey, did you know this was happening and are you cool with it?"
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:16 PM on May 8, 2013 [3 favorites]
The thing is that as a temp, your boss is actually the temp agency. So you have the right to clue your agency in and check with them about "hey, did you know this was happening and are you cool with it?"
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:16 PM on May 8, 2013 [3 favorites]
Best answer: they are being asked questions they cannot possibly know the answers to since they were not trained for that job. The company seem to be expecting the temp to know things that their own employees don't know.
I've been in this position and it leads to you getting really resentful and answering people like "I DON'T KNOW! I"M A TEMP!" and them thinking you're not very bright, and your supervisor thinking you have an attitude, and...yeah, it's just unpleasant.
Re: asking the agency for more money, I'm all for that but I've never personally seen it work. Or they might be able to get you 5 cents an hour more or something. I don't know why this is (maybe someone who works for an agency will know) but I always got the impression that either the temp or the assignment is locked into some sort of category, either formally or in the company's mind, and once you're "file clerk" or "data entry," the company will never pay much more for you even if you're now doing the work of "team leader" or whatever.
posted by DestinationUnknown at 12:37 PM on May 8, 2013 [1 favorite]
I've been in this position and it leads to you getting really resentful and answering people like "I DON'T KNOW! I"M A TEMP!" and them thinking you're not very bright, and your supervisor thinking you have an attitude, and...yeah, it's just unpleasant.
Re: asking the agency for more money, I'm all for that but I've never personally seen it work. Or they might be able to get you 5 cents an hour more or something. I don't know why this is (maybe someone who works for an agency will know) but I always got the impression that either the temp or the assignment is locked into some sort of category, either formally or in the company's mind, and once you're "file clerk" or "data entry," the company will never pay much more for you even if you're now doing the work of "team leader" or whatever.
posted by DestinationUnknown at 12:37 PM on May 8, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Temp should connect with everyone on linked in, then ask agency for a reassignment.
Then say to boss at placement "Oh no! I've been reassigned. Well, it's been great working for you and I am interested in the permanent position if you can hire me. Here is my contact information, thanks."
This temp might be better off being a "free agent" in the eyes of the company and not being the current temp if s/he wants to be permanently hired by them. Most companies will not do the temp to hire with temp agency since the placement fee is high, even if they like that temp, and will go around the agency or hire someone else to save money. BTW this is usually illegal of the company to do, since they generally have to sign a contract with the temp agency that permanent hires of their temps will go through the agency, but it is very very common to go around the agency.
Temp should know that permanent hires go through all the same crap in terms of not being trained and being expected to know things they haven't learned.
The state of training and onboarding these days is horrific and everywhere I've been it's been sink or swim. So the treatment in that respect is not unusual and is not likely to get much better. Nowadays you learn a job by doing the job, while on the job.
posted by rmless at 1:39 PM on May 8, 2013 [1 favorite]
Then say to boss at placement "Oh no! I've been reassigned. Well, it's been great working for you and I am interested in the permanent position if you can hire me. Here is my contact information, thanks."
This temp might be better off being a "free agent" in the eyes of the company and not being the current temp if s/he wants to be permanently hired by them. Most companies will not do the temp to hire with temp agency since the placement fee is high, even if they like that temp, and will go around the agency or hire someone else to save money. BTW this is usually illegal of the company to do, since they generally have to sign a contract with the temp agency that permanent hires of their temps will go through the agency, but it is very very common to go around the agency.
Temp should know that permanent hires go through all the same crap in terms of not being trained and being expected to know things they haven't learned.
The state of training and onboarding these days is horrific and everywhere I've been it's been sink or swim. So the treatment in that respect is not unusual and is not likely to get much better. Nowadays you learn a job by doing the job, while on the job.
posted by rmless at 1:39 PM on May 8, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Nice thing about temp - they can try you out. But it works both ways. You've tried them out and they've failed. Doesn't sound like a good place to work, and making it permanent wouldn't help.
Nice thing is you could just about put this down as a job on your résumé - do explain that it was through XYZ Agency.
I'd ask the agency if they could look for another gig for you, but possibly be prepared for some attempt to string you along on the agency's part - they've made a lot of money for no work for some time. Best to independently look for another job.
posted by randomkeystrike at 7:30 PM on May 8, 2013
Nice thing is you could just about put this down as a job on your résumé - do explain that it was through XYZ Agency.
I'd ask the agency if they could look for another gig for you, but possibly be prepared for some attempt to string you along on the agency's part - they've made a lot of money for no work for some time. Best to independently look for another job.
posted by randomkeystrike at 7:30 PM on May 8, 2013
Best answer: Ask your temp agency to review your work and give you a raise. When you're asked how to do X for which you have no training, just say "I have not been trained in X; Jay should be able to help you." Being underpaid sucks; no wonder Temp feels cranky. Getting paid more should help. If Temp wants a permanent job, spiff up resume, make lists of achievements, talk to agency, and ask agency to negotiate on Temp's behalf. When a Temp asks for more, the Temp will get more respect, and maybe more $/permanence.
posted by theora55 at 4:24 PM on May 9, 2013
posted by theora55 at 4:24 PM on May 9, 2013
Response by poster: If anyone is wondering how this concluded, the temp in question (not me) decided to stay with the assignment. I thought it sounded like a bad idea, but it's not my life. They ended up asking the temp to interview for a permanent position (doing the same job) after having worked there for over a year. Yay, right? But after interviewing, they declined to offer him the position...and then extended his temp contract another 3 months. All of you who said "permatemp" called it, I'm afraid.
posted by Ouisch at 6:52 AM on December 20, 2013
posted by Ouisch at 6:52 AM on December 20, 2013
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