trying to keep it kosher - meal ideas needed
May 1, 2013 6:17 PM Subscribe
i've been contracted by a jewish organization to provide kosher meal services for 3 weeks this summer. i've had lengthy discussions with them about what i can and cannot serve. imagine that all the little details are taken care of (because they are). my main issue is WHAT to serve on shabbos...for 300 guests.
there are plenty of sites that detail all the rules i need to follow for allowing chazora. what i am looking for are tried and true dishes that will reheat well and are appealing. i've got a pretty strong culinary background, but i am in search of any input from the kosher community about what will go over well with my client. what dishes do you enjoy during shabbos? pretend that while our initial discussions with the client were very in depth, we never discussed this specific meal preference and now communication with the group is remote and out of my hands. i need meal ideas! gevald!
there are plenty of sites that detail all the rules i need to follow for allowing chazora. what i am looking for are tried and true dishes that will reheat well and are appealing. i've got a pretty strong culinary background, but i am in search of any input from the kosher community about what will go over well with my client. what dishes do you enjoy during shabbos? pretend that while our initial discussions with the client were very in depth, we never discussed this specific meal preference and now communication with the group is remote and out of my hands. i need meal ideas! gevald!
To clarify: Is this for a Friday night meal, or lunch, or seudah shlishit, or all of the above?
posted by Conrad Cornelius o'Donald o'Dell at 7:05 PM on May 1, 2013
posted by Conrad Cornelius o'Donald o'Dell at 7:05 PM on May 1, 2013
If the people serving the food aren't Jewish, the only consideration for Shabbos is the food itself (and I suppose, the plates and the pans - if these were that much of a consideration the organisation would have chosen a kosher caterer, no?). For Shabbos I would just stick with a vegetarian buffet, like falafel, hummus, mint salad, grilled haloumi, greek salad, pasta with broad beans (fava beans), chickpeas (garbanzo beans) cooked in tomato and onion. It's spring so work with some of the more delicious spring vegetables - new potatoes, asparagus, fennel, beetroot, spinach. None of this has to be hot, it's all delicious and if you don't include any meat it's all kosher.
posted by goo at 7:22 PM on May 1, 2013
posted by goo at 7:22 PM on May 1, 2013
100% honestly, as a former kosher dining hall manager, the guests will probably LOVE something that is not chicken, kugel, or Israeli (aka Mizrachi) food. What are your specialties? Just make them kosher.
As a (not-former) member of a nonobservant extended family...the BIGGEST compliment a kosher or kosher-style caterer can get is "Wow! This doesn't taste like kosher food!"
Example: Thai-style clear soup instead of chicken soup for Friday night. Little potato nests with something in them instead of kugel. Seared rare tuna kebabs instead of gefilte fish. Biscotti instead of mandelbrot.
Friday night you need, minimally, a soup, a fish course, a meat/chicken/vegetarian main course, then everything else as per secular life.
Saturday daytime I do NOT think you need a nod to cholent (a traditional bean stew in a crockpot overnight). I think Saturday daytime you can serve whatever you want from your regular menu. If you do want some indications of tradition, maybe a (tasty, special) egg salad for an appetizer, with cumin OR with green onions and smoked salmon. Technically there should be a fish course on Saturday, too, but no one will miss it. Maybe spanakopita?
Cliches in kosher catering (as elsewhere) are sushi and roasted vegetables. Flourless chocolate cake.
Especially if there are older people, have a huge pot of hot water (for tea) available throughout the meals...lunchtime too. Yes, even in the summer.
There are a ton of kosher cookbooks...really, though, since you already have a culinary background, bring people something DIFFERENT. I see you are in MA. Out in the exile (galus), say, in Nebraska, it's a major opportunity to eat potato kugel at a function, even if you complain the whole time about bland, salty kosher cooking. But in MA people are getting chicken, kugel, or Israeli food (the "modern" alternative) at every wedding and bar mitzvah.
posted by skbw at 8:02 PM on May 1, 2013 [3 favorites]
As a (not-former) member of a nonobservant extended family...the BIGGEST compliment a kosher or kosher-style caterer can get is "Wow! This doesn't taste like kosher food!"
Example: Thai-style clear soup instead of chicken soup for Friday night. Little potato nests with something in them instead of kugel. Seared rare tuna kebabs instead of gefilte fish. Biscotti instead of mandelbrot.
Friday night you need, minimally, a soup, a fish course, a meat/chicken/vegetarian main course, then everything else as per secular life.
Saturday daytime I do NOT think you need a nod to cholent (a traditional bean stew in a crockpot overnight). I think Saturday daytime you can serve whatever you want from your regular menu. If you do want some indications of tradition, maybe a (tasty, special) egg salad for an appetizer, with cumin OR with green onions and smoked salmon. Technically there should be a fish course on Saturday, too, but no one will miss it. Maybe spanakopita?
Cliches in kosher catering (as elsewhere) are sushi and roasted vegetables. Flourless chocolate cake.
Especially if there are older people, have a huge pot of hot water (for tea) available throughout the meals...lunchtime too. Yes, even in the summer.
There are a ton of kosher cookbooks...really, though, since you already have a culinary background, bring people something DIFFERENT. I see you are in MA. Out in the exile (galus), say, in Nebraska, it's a major opportunity to eat potato kugel at a function, even if you complain the whole time about bland, salty kosher cooking. But in MA people are getting chicken, kugel, or Israeli food (the "modern" alternative) at every wedding and bar mitzvah.
posted by skbw at 8:02 PM on May 1, 2013 [3 favorites]
Adding so as not to misuse the edit window.
On rereading, I think that if the venue cares enough about shabbos to avoid problems with reheating, then you DO need a fish course (before the meat) Saturday daytime. For the record, so to speak. At least a fish alternative appetizer that people can choose.
In the summertime I like (chicken) schnitzel for lunch. It's great at room temperature.
Gazpacho is pretty cliche, too, but a GOOD gazpacho in the godless Northern regions is very rare.
There is a Polish cold borscht called chlodnik that an older crowd would probably get into for lunch. But it is dairy.
posted by skbw at 8:08 PM on May 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
On rereading, I think that if the venue cares enough about shabbos to avoid problems with reheating, then you DO need a fish course (before the meat) Saturday daytime. For the record, so to speak. At least a fish alternative appetizer that people can choose.
In the summertime I like (chicken) schnitzel for lunch. It's great at room temperature.
Gazpacho is pretty cliche, too, but a GOOD gazpacho in the godless Northern regions is very rare.
There is a Polish cold borscht called chlodnik that an older crowd would probably get into for lunch. But it is dairy.
posted by skbw at 8:08 PM on May 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
Mini salmon en croute is ALSO a cliche, but a tasty one at that.
posted by skbw at 8:10 PM on May 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by skbw at 8:10 PM on May 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: conrad, considering summer daylight, this would be for a saturday night meal only (right??). breakfast would be cold cereals, pastry, and for lunch, deli, salad, etc. skbw, thanks for the insight. this is a younger crowd, so "modern" israeli or even a reworking of our house dishes might be the way to go. cold salads are being considered for evening meals, but i'm really looking for specific suggestions for reheated meals. unless...that's just not done.
posted by ps_im_awesome at 10:38 PM on May 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by ps_im_awesome at 10:38 PM on May 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
raised orthodox. I agree that whatever your specialties are should be fine, unless they've specifically requested "traditional."What sort of situation is this? Summer camp? Retreat?
considering summer daylight, this would be for a saturday night meal only (right??)
In mid summer, shabbos will not end until 9:30, so you are definitely making a saturday night meal (shaloshseudos or seudah shlishit).
Lunch should be the heaviest, biggest meal of the day, so as to properly trigger a post lunch shluf (nap). I would do your deli plan for shaloshseudos, with a larger, heated spread for lunch. It doesn't have to be cholent or the like, but filling is the way to go. I'm assuming you've talked through meat//milk issues in general -- keep in mind that depending on what time you (potentially) serve meat for lunch, you may not be able to serve any dairy at dinner either.
I'm having a little trouble honing in on exactly what your question is -- are you looking for classic, tired but beloved dishes, or edgier trendy ones?
posted by femmegrrr at 12:30 AM on May 2, 2013 [2 favorites]
considering summer daylight, this would be for a saturday night meal only (right??)
In mid summer, shabbos will not end until 9:30, so you are definitely making a saturday night meal (shaloshseudos or seudah shlishit).
Lunch should be the heaviest, biggest meal of the day, so as to properly trigger a post lunch shluf (nap). I would do your deli plan for shaloshseudos, with a larger, heated spread for lunch. It doesn't have to be cholent or the like, but filling is the way to go. I'm assuming you've talked through meat//milk issues in general -- keep in mind that depending on what time you (potentially) serve meat for lunch, you may not be able to serve any dairy at dinner either.
I'm having a little trouble honing in on exactly what your question is -- are you looking for classic, tired but beloved dishes, or edgier trendy ones?
posted by femmegrrr at 12:30 AM on May 2, 2013 [2 favorites]
The big Shabbos meal is typically on Friday night, with things left over for lunch the next day. At least in my family.
Salmon is always nice, with rice and a fresh veg and salad. Perfect for summer.
I make an amazing Dominican Snapper dish, it can be served with white rice, plantains and a salad of corn, black beans and avocado.
A nice milk meal is Blintz Cassarole, smoked salmon (or chubs) bagels and cream cheese, with salad and fresh fruit. This would be a good brunch or lunch.
I do a brisket in a crock pot that is stupid easy. You can alter for oven and just reheat, it reheats wonderfully well. Brisket, marinara sauce, envelope of Lipton Onion Soup mix, about an hour before serving add baby carrots, whole mushrooms. Serve over egg noodles.
Chicken Schnitzel, braised purple cabbage, mashed potatoes, and a salad. Also, for some reason, fruit compote. You can also do a cranberry relish. (I do mine in orange juice, sugar and add pecans)
You can do a nice roasted turkey one evening, or grilled chicken with barbecue sauce.
You don't have to be Grossingers, just use the ingredients you would normally use, just don't mix milk and meat. So if you'd normally use butter on a veggie, use margarine, or olive oil.
Instead of cream for coffee, Rich's Non-Dairy Creamer (blargh!) Desserts should be non-dairy. Kosher bakeries specialize in cakes that don't use milk or cream. They taste good. I'm not entirely sure I want to know how they pull it off.
Vegan is also kosher, so if you have some Vegan dishes, you can do a meal or two with them.
Pasta is popular, and it can be teamed with meat, fish or cheese as you see fit.
I'll bet most of your popular and favorite recipes can be koshered up.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:51 AM on May 2, 2013 [1 favorite]
Salmon is always nice, with rice and a fresh veg and salad. Perfect for summer.
I make an amazing Dominican Snapper dish, it can be served with white rice, plantains and a salad of corn, black beans and avocado.
A nice milk meal is Blintz Cassarole, smoked salmon (or chubs) bagels and cream cheese, with salad and fresh fruit. This would be a good brunch or lunch.
I do a brisket in a crock pot that is stupid easy. You can alter for oven and just reheat, it reheats wonderfully well. Brisket, marinara sauce, envelope of Lipton Onion Soup mix, about an hour before serving add baby carrots, whole mushrooms. Serve over egg noodles.
Chicken Schnitzel, braised purple cabbage, mashed potatoes, and a salad. Also, for some reason, fruit compote. You can also do a cranberry relish. (I do mine in orange juice, sugar and add pecans)
You can do a nice roasted turkey one evening, or grilled chicken with barbecue sauce.
You don't have to be Grossingers, just use the ingredients you would normally use, just don't mix milk and meat. So if you'd normally use butter on a veggie, use margarine, or olive oil.
Instead of cream for coffee, Rich's Non-Dairy Creamer (blargh!) Desserts should be non-dairy. Kosher bakeries specialize in cakes that don't use milk or cream. They taste good. I'm not entirely sure I want to know how they pull it off.
Vegan is also kosher, so if you have some Vegan dishes, you can do a meal or two with them.
Pasta is popular, and it can be teamed with meat, fish or cheese as you see fit.
I'll bet most of your popular and favorite recipes can be koshered up.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:51 AM on May 2, 2013 [1 favorite]
Oh, and to clarify, Sabbath runs from Friday night at sundown until Saturday night at sundown. So the big Sabbath dinner is on Friday night.
Saturday night is not usually such a big production. Saturday lunch as I mentioned before, was either leftovers or something simple.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:54 AM on May 2, 2013
Saturday night is not usually such a big production. Saturday lunch as I mentioned before, was either leftovers or something simple.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:54 AM on May 2, 2013
Best answer: Saturday night should not be "shabbos food" at all. On the contrary, light and different.
The shabbat meals as such are:
Friday night
Saturday lunch
A snack of sorts (seudah slishit) at twilight Sat. afternoon/evening. Seudah slishit is not a dinner. Tuna salad, etc.
If they didn't tell you "make seudah slishit, too," I would seek clarification on this.
Young crowd notwithstanding, I am saying stay away from Israeli ("Mizrachi") food as well as from chicken and kugel. Total complete overload and glut for the under-40 kosher facility patron in Massachusetts. I am eating falafel as I write this. I could go the rest of my life without eating more catered Mizrachi food.
I think you are right on with the house specialties. You're a caterer (I'm not being snarky). For real, most of your stuff reheats, right?
posted by skbw at 10:40 AM on May 2, 2013
The shabbat meals as such are:
Friday night
Saturday lunch
A snack of sorts (seudah slishit) at twilight Sat. afternoon/evening. Seudah slishit is not a dinner. Tuna salad, etc.
If they didn't tell you "make seudah slishit, too," I would seek clarification on this.
Young crowd notwithstanding, I am saying stay away from Israeli ("Mizrachi") food as well as from chicken and kugel. Total complete overload and glut for the under-40 kosher facility patron in Massachusetts. I am eating falafel as I write this. I could go the rest of my life without eating more catered Mizrachi food.
I think you are right on with the house specialties. You're a caterer (I'm not being snarky). For real, most of your stuff reheats, right?
posted by skbw at 10:40 AM on May 2, 2013
Best answer: Responding to you above, no, reheated meals are 100% done for Saturday lunch. I think just use whatever reheated or room temp. recipes you already like.
posted by skbw at 10:42 AM on May 2, 2013
posted by skbw at 10:42 AM on May 2, 2013
Did they tell you to provide rolls or small loaves of bread like pita? "Whole" bread as opposed to sliced? It does not have to be challah, it does not even have to be pita, but it needs to be a whole roll and not a slice of something.
This is for all 3 shabbat meals.
Also wine or grape juice...any kind of grape juice is fine, white or sparkling, etc.
I am (this is nothing personal) sort of confused about the scenario. I can understand kosher-style in a nonkosher facility, that's cool...but it seems like they are really not giving you too much guidance if this is a situation where reheating matters. Are you preparing this in the venue's kosher kitchen? In the venue's nonkosher kitchen?
posted by skbw at 10:51 AM on May 2, 2013
This is for all 3 shabbat meals.
Also wine or grape juice...any kind of grape juice is fine, white or sparkling, etc.
I am (this is nothing personal) sort of confused about the scenario. I can understand kosher-style in a nonkosher facility, that's cool...but it seems like they are really not giving you too much guidance if this is a situation where reheating matters. Are you preparing this in the venue's kosher kitchen? In the venue's nonkosher kitchen?
posted by skbw at 10:51 AM on May 2, 2013
One more note, then I'll sign off...
Don't mix meat/chicken + fish. This is usually not an issue except for Worcestershire sauce and possibly other weird condiments (let's leave Thai fish sauce out of it). If you use Lea & Perrins, go for Heinz instead.
posted by skbw at 10:55 AM on May 2, 2013
Don't mix meat/chicken + fish. This is usually not an issue except for Worcestershire sauce and possibly other weird condiments (let's leave Thai fish sauce out of it). If you use Lea & Perrins, go for Heinz instead.
posted by skbw at 10:55 AM on May 2, 2013
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