Starter woes?

April 27, 2013 2:58 AM

Car was starting intermittently (power to the dash lights, etc., but zero activity from the starter) as the battery reached the expected end of its life. So, new battery. Same problem. The shop that has the car tells me that a new battery sends a relatively high amount of power to the starter and that this can cause problems with it (gears, etc.) This doesn't sound ludicrous, but I know enough about cars to know how much I don't know. Here's hoping the knowledgeable people (for whom I have vast respect and gratitude) 'round here can share their thoughts. Thanks!

By the way, for the gearheads out there, the car is an Aussie-built RWD 4-door Chevrolet Lumina SS with a 5.7 V8 (and gas here in Dubai is about $1.90 per gallon). It's reasonably similar to a RWD Dodge Charger, about 8 inches shorter than the current model.

posted by ambient2 to Travel & Transportation (10 answers total)

The shop that has the car tells me that a new battery sends a relatively high amount of power to the starter and that this can cause problems with it (gears, etc.) This doesn't sound ludicrous...

Insofar as the shop seems to be implying that your starter was okay before but the new battery broke it, it is totally ludicrous.

What, precisely, do you mean when you say "zero activity from the starter?" Do you hear nothing at all? A loud click? A clattering series of loud clicks? Whirring? There are many points at which the process could break down that are not the starter motor itself.
posted by jon1270 at 3:35 AM on April 27, 2013

I had a car once with similar issues: starter worked fine when it chose to work but was completely dead when it didn't, despite a fairly new battery. Problem turned out to be a build-up of carbon on the brushes of the starter motor (or so the AA man assured me). The cure was to have the starter motor taken apart, cleaned, and put back together again. The short-term workaround was to dislodge the carbon on the occasions when the starter wouldn't go. In practice, this meant grabbing the nearest heavy object (usually the wheelbrace) and walloping the starter with it, hard. This was effective both in making the car start and in making me feel manly and mechanic-y.

(For what it's worth, the "too much power" explanation sounds odd to me -- if anything I'd expect it to give erratic behaviour rather than no response at all -- but I am no kind of expert whatsoever.)

I was a little sad when I finally got it fixed properly, but it's nice to know that there are problems in the world for which "hit it with a blunt object" really is the correct solution.
posted by pont at 3:37 AM on April 27, 2013

a new battery sends a relatively high amount of power to the starter and that this can cause problems with it (gears, etc.)

Such bullshit. Either you've misunderstood them or they are lying to you.

A brand new battery that's been sitting on the store shelf for a while will have less charge than a new-ish battery that's already installed, since your car recharges the battery every time you drive.

It's probably a problem with a relay, contactor, or some loose electrical connection (engine ground strap?). It may also be an issue with the starter motor itself (either electrical or mechanical). But the stated reason, "too much power from a new battery", is crap.
posted by ryanrs at 3:43 AM on April 27, 2013 [1 favorite]

Response by poster: To answer a question above, I may have misspoken in saying "zero activity from the starter." When the old battery was in there, we tried it once in a quiet place with the car window down and it sounded like there was a little "click" from the starter (solenoid?).

I am told that the same thing happened with the new battery.
posted by ambient2 at 4:11 AM on April 27, 2013

Yep, a single solid click is consistent with the solenoid being activated, which should complete the circuit between the battery and the starter motor. With a new battery, you can be fairly confident that there's enough power available to turn the engine over. So then you have to ask, is there something else keeping sufficient power from getting to the motor, i.e. a corroded, loose or damaged cable, or is the starter motor itself faulty? Cable problems are often visually obvious, and as Pont noted, a sticking starter motor can often be whacked into life by striking it with something while someone else is turning the key into the start position. This should be an easy diagnosis. The 'more power from new battery broke it' explanation is just the shop trying to squirm out of the embarrassment of telling you that they misdiagnosed this simple problem and may have sold you a battery you didn't need.
posted by jon1270 at 4:56 AM on April 27, 2013 [2 favorites]

A quiet click is a relay, a loud click is the solenoid/contactor (which is triggered by the relay).

It's kind of hard to tell which one you're hearing. Sounds like it could just be the relay, if it's very quiet. How loud is the click compared to, say, switching on your headlights or toggling your high-beams (also a small relay)?
posted by ryanrs at 5:23 AM on April 27, 2013

loose ground at the starter and/or bad connection from the solenoid to the starter.

slim chance the starter motor has issues. it's a standard DC motor with a commutator (kind of a rotating switch with some carbon 'brushes') and if one of the windings is bad and comes to rest at just the right point, you get intermittent operation or none. usually, if this happens with a motor that isn't enclosed you can move the rotor forward a few degrees and it will work. (i have the scars to prove it!) starter motors are not subject to that, so if there were a commutator/brush issue, i think it would be more like high-resistance and not an open circuit. hard to tell.

to verify it, you can put power directly to the starter motor and bypass the solenoid. it's best to do this if you know what the risks are. the elements in the circuit are battery, keyswitch, solenoid, starter motor, fuses and wiring. you've eliminated the keyswitch, the solenoid (it clicks anyway, and there is a failure mode which would allow it to click and still not do its job), battery, and fuses. wiring, starter motor, and solenoid are all that's left. i'm betting solenoid or wiring.

your mechanic is feeding you a line of crap about the 'excessive' power from the battery. find another one.
posted by FauxScot at 5:49 AM on April 27, 2013

The problem wasn't the battery in the first place, it was the starter. That's not to say that the battery was not at end of life, but that was a starter problem.

I actually laughed at the 'more voltage damaged the gears' thing. That's really funny and (obviously at this point) total bullshit.

You either have a loose earth or a damaged/past its life starter. It may be worth trying to mess with it to fix it but it is probably easier and cheaper in the long run to replace it. If its going south now, you're only putting off the inevitable.

Don't got back to the first garage though...
posted by Brockles at 6:44 AM on April 27, 2013 [1 favorite]

Hope you find out what happened, but when my started died it completely died! I didn't even get a click or a whirr when it was trying to start.

When it was dying my mechanic couldn't replicate the slow, stuttering start that was happening, so I offered to record it as I started the car. Is this an option for you? Then you can bring that in or put it online to really define the noises it's making.

My starter died before going back to the mechanic so it was pretty clear what happened.
posted by Crystalinne at 11:58 AM on April 27, 2013

The short-term workaround was to dislodge the carbon on the occasions when the starter wouldn't go. In practice, this meant grabbing the nearest heavy object (usually the wheelbrace) and walloping the starter with it, hard. This was effective both in making the car start and in making me feel manly and mechanic-

I had a car that had the same issue. I had a heavy, old-fashioned, screwdriver I used to beat the starter with.

This worked for well over a year.
posted by SuzySmith at 4:34 AM on April 28, 2013