What should we, as a company, do about insane customers?
February 4, 2013 6:40 PM Subscribe
Our store occasionally has customers who appear to be mentally unstable and who would benefit from medical help. What, if anything, should we do for them? Is it any of our business?
I work at an IT company that works directly with the public. More than once we've had customers who seem to cross the line from odd to mentally ill.
These people do not appear to be in danger of physically harming themselves or others, but they are paranoid or behave strangely. One of the other employees referred to one of them as "off their meds crazy."
My question is: As business people, what is the ethical thing to do here? On the one hand, they clearly would benefit from medical help, and it doesn't feel right to just send them on their way without at least saying something.
On the other hand, none of us have any medical training. And there's a stigma associated with mental health issues. If someone came in with a broken hand we would say "Whoa! You should get to a hospital!" but if someone comes in and is just as clearly in need of mental help, it's much more tricky, and potentially insulting.
And if we should to do something, what should that be? We can't just talk to the mentally ill person, since their judgment is already impaired. But trying to track down family or friends to tell them "Hey, your friend should go to a mental hospital!" feels more than a little creepy too.
So far our course has been to do our best to provide our services, just like we would to anyone else. But I just want to know if there's something else we should be doing.
I work at an IT company that works directly with the public. More than once we've had customers who seem to cross the line from odd to mentally ill.
These people do not appear to be in danger of physically harming themselves or others, but they are paranoid or behave strangely. One of the other employees referred to one of them as "off their meds crazy."
My question is: As business people, what is the ethical thing to do here? On the one hand, they clearly would benefit from medical help, and it doesn't feel right to just send them on their way without at least saying something.
On the other hand, none of us have any medical training. And there's a stigma associated with mental health issues. If someone came in with a broken hand we would say "Whoa! You should get to a hospital!" but if someone comes in and is just as clearly in need of mental help, it's much more tricky, and potentially insulting.
And if we should to do something, what should that be? We can't just talk to the mentally ill person, since their judgment is already impaired. But trying to track down family or friends to tell them "Hey, your friend should go to a mental hospital!" feels more than a little creepy too.
So far our course has been to do our best to provide our services, just like we would to anyone else. But I just want to know if there's something else we should be doing.
For all you know, these people could be in an improved state from their "usual". Maybe they have good, regular medical care - you've got no way to know and its none of your business. Unless something imminent and dangerous is occuring, there's nothing wrong with behaving strangely or whatever. Leave the medical work to those with training.
posted by blaneyphoto at 6:49 PM on February 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by blaneyphoto at 6:49 PM on February 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
I used to work security at a museum. (This is the kind of security that involves college kids wearing matching polo shirts while telling people not to touch things, not anything cool.) I finagled my way into the front desk position, which meant that I was the person who greeted every museum visitor and answered all the main line phone calls. As probably anyone who has ever worked in a public-facing job can attest, I can tell you: people. be. crazy. yo.
Like, completely crazy.
There was this one guy who would come in every few days, always wearing sandals with socks (even in the winter when it was very snowy out), and would beeline for this one statue of a falcon and stand there for an hour at a time, just...communing with it. And another time I had to tell a ~25 year old dude to please not lick the doors. And one time there was a lady who got into an argument with what someone wrote in the guest book. Not the person who wrote it, but the actual writing in the book. She was yelling at it. And that doesn't even begin to scratch the surface. I'd deflect calls every day for people demanding they talk to the Egyptologist about some random thing they found. Occasionally they would add that the random thing was haunted. And there'd always be someone ready to start some static because they couldn't bring their bookbag/open plate of spaghetti/pet into the museum.
What I'm getting at is: people can be pretty weird. Not all of them are in need of professional intervention. Some people are just total fucking weirdos. It's none of your business why they're weird. As long as they're not endangering themselves or others, you really need to stay out of it.
If, IF, the owner of the company wants to "do" something about it, s/he can do so, but it'll probably brand the company as That Place That Tells People to Get Psychiatric Help, and that won't be good for business. But you, as an employee, should not get involved.
posted by phunniemee at 6:55 PM on February 4, 2013 [51 favorites]
Like, completely crazy.
There was this one guy who would come in every few days, always wearing sandals with socks (even in the winter when it was very snowy out), and would beeline for this one statue of a falcon and stand there for an hour at a time, just...communing with it. And another time I had to tell a ~25 year old dude to please not lick the doors. And one time there was a lady who got into an argument with what someone wrote in the guest book. Not the person who wrote it, but the actual writing in the book. She was yelling at it. And that doesn't even begin to scratch the surface. I'd deflect calls every day for people demanding they talk to the Egyptologist about some random thing they found. Occasionally they would add that the random thing was haunted. And there'd always be someone ready to start some static because they couldn't bring their bookbag/open plate of spaghetti/pet into the museum.
What I'm getting at is: people can be pretty weird. Not all of them are in need of professional intervention. Some people are just total fucking weirdos. It's none of your business why they're weird. As long as they're not endangering themselves or others, you really need to stay out of it.
If, IF, the owner of the company wants to "do" something about it, s/he can do so, but it'll probably brand the company as That Place That Tells People to Get Psychiatric Help, and that won't be good for business. But you, as an employee, should not get involved.
posted by phunniemee at 6:55 PM on February 4, 2013 [51 favorites]
The best people to ask are your jurisdiction's version of a Community Services Board, if one exists. More generally, you could take a Mental Health First Aid course.
posted by djb at 6:55 PM on February 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by djb at 6:55 PM on February 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
If they don't seem to be in danger of harming themselves or others, have a marginally acceptable level of personal hygiene (i.e., can obviously care for themselves to some extent), and don't appear to be in dire need of immediate assistance (i.e., they have food, water, basic utilities, a home you wouldn't see on Hoarders, they don't have visible wounds that need addressing or bruises that could indicate a bigger problem, etc)... then it's none of your business. As state upthread, people be crazy, yo, and you don't have any idea whether or not they're already receiving assistance.
Otherwise, call the police non-emergency line or your city's adult social services line, report what you've witnessed and why you're concerned, and hope for the best.
posted by erst at 7:12 PM on February 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
Otherwise, call the police non-emergency line or your city's adult social services line, report what you've witnessed and why you're concerned, and hope for the best.
posted by erst at 7:12 PM on February 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
If they're not obvious threats to themselves and others, but you guys find that you're dealing with a lot of 'em beyond just the People. be. crazy. (which anyone who has served the public will tell you), the most ethical thing looks less like intervening in their lives individually than recognizing that you have an underserved mental health population in your area, and encourage the business to support some program that helps — on a broad, social level — people get the mental health care they need. Whether that's through volunteering somewhere (say, cooking at an addiction treatment facility so they can spend more money on programs) or just making a direct contribution to a non-profit that does this work, you likely are better off channelling your realization that things are unfair and that these folks need help into something that can help a lot of people a moderate amount rather than trying to solve the problems of these individuals immediately. In the long run, it'll be better for them and you.
posted by klangklangston at 8:00 PM on February 4, 2013 [8 favorites]
posted by klangklangston at 8:00 PM on February 4, 2013 [8 favorites]
I was coming in to suggest Mental Health First Aid too. I'm an instructor and people find that it gives them a lot of very practical ways to respond and talk to people who are having a mental health problem. It's a 12-hour course that you can split up into 2, 3 or 4 sessions and I'd really recommend looking into it.
posted by la petite marie at 8:40 PM on February 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by la petite marie at 8:40 PM on February 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
Two things occur to me:
1. You don't know that these people are actually mentally ill. You're not licensed therapists or medical practitioners, and it's not for you to pathologize them.
2. You don't know that these people aren't already being treated for mental illness.
I can't imagine any situation where a private IT company would have any standing to do anything about this, unless threats were made or someone seemed like a danger to themselves or one of your employees.
posted by Sara C. at 8:43 PM on February 4, 2013 [5 favorites]
1. You don't know that these people are actually mentally ill. You're not licensed therapists or medical practitioners, and it's not for you to pathologize them.
2. You don't know that these people aren't already being treated for mental illness.
I can't imagine any situation where a private IT company would have any standing to do anything about this, unless threats were made or someone seemed like a danger to themselves or one of your employees.
posted by Sara C. at 8:43 PM on February 4, 2013 [5 favorites]
In the circumstances you describe, I'd go with a gentle sigh and a "people are different" and go about my own business. You're providing a professional service, and your focus should begin and end there. Of course if there is an issue that puts someone in danger, you're talking about a whole 'nother ball of wax and should escalate to professionals such as law enforcement.
posted by mynameisluka at 9:04 PM on February 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by mynameisluka at 9:04 PM on February 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
I know you guys have the best of intentions, but the very first time you misdiagnose someone that's just "weird" as mentally ill, you're going to have a dramabomb on your hand.
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 9:12 PM on February 4, 2013
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 9:12 PM on February 4, 2013
This really depends on where you're located. In the US people pretty much just step around the mentally ill on the streets and shrug. This is because there isn't really anything you CAN do other than start a charity hospital or take them home. No one will come if you call for help.
Where I grew up you would have called the local police station or the local health services who would most likely know the person well and would come and take them home to their Mum's or their nursing home or their group home, possibly with a trip to the police station for a nice cup of tea on the way.
I'll never get used to the US approach but that's all you can really do if that's where you're located, other than try to find out where they live and who their caretakers are and contact them directly.
posted by fshgrl at 10:57 PM on February 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
Where I grew up you would have called the local police station or the local health services who would most likely know the person well and would come and take them home to their Mum's or their nursing home or their group home, possibly with a trip to the police station for a nice cup of tea on the way.
I'll never get used to the US approach but that's all you can really do if that's where you're located, other than try to find out where they live and who their caretakers are and contact them directly.
posted by fshgrl at 10:57 PM on February 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
Ah, memories.
I used to work for an adult retailer around the corner from an open psych ward. Talk about a crazy magnet.
Basically, there's no way of telling if the crazy person you are talking to is not receiving treatment. We had one regular who was pretty much rolling with some textbook delusional schitzophrenia. He'd mentioned it to other staff members, and I believe it. His picture could have been in the DSM. The first handful of times I dealt with him he cheerfully and disjointedly told me all about how he was sleeping with a good half dozen adult performers - not by naming them, but by pointing to the posters behind the counter, something he did every time he came in, and would tell us about the recorder in his DVD player that took video of him during private moments and send the resulting footage to these girlfriends. Among other things.
Then he'd disappear for weeks, and we'd see him after he'd been away from the hospital, and his meds, and his doctors, and his demeanor was totally different, completely hostile and paranoid, with the same sort of stories only this time the footage was going to the CIA and they had a mafia hit out on him. After a few weeks of treatment he'd be back to his still delusional as hell but largely less threatening self.
I guess what I'm saying here is that the odds are good that at least some of these people you're talking about are very likely to be getting help already, and probably have carers and other professionals looking after them. For all you know they've gotten to a point where they can take care of contacting an IT professional on their own, having spent a fair bit of time working out their issues. You could be dealing with them at their best, after a lot of work.
Just let it go. You're only a part of their world for a very small window. Unless they're actively causing harm to themselves or other clients, then you really have no ethical burden to intervene. In fact, it would be unethical for you, someone with no mental health training, to make a snap judgement based on that small window of interaction. Give them the best service you can, the same you would someone who wasn't pinging your crazimeter. For a lot of people with obvious mental health issues, treated or no, that'll mean a fair bit in its own right.
posted by Jilder at 12:10 AM on February 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
I used to work for an adult retailer around the corner from an open psych ward. Talk about a crazy magnet.
Basically, there's no way of telling if the crazy person you are talking to is not receiving treatment. We had one regular who was pretty much rolling with some textbook delusional schitzophrenia. He'd mentioned it to other staff members, and I believe it. His picture could have been in the DSM. The first handful of times I dealt with him he cheerfully and disjointedly told me all about how he was sleeping with a good half dozen adult performers - not by naming them, but by pointing to the posters behind the counter, something he did every time he came in, and would tell us about the recorder in his DVD player that took video of him during private moments and send the resulting footage to these girlfriends. Among other things.
Then he'd disappear for weeks, and we'd see him after he'd been away from the hospital, and his meds, and his doctors, and his demeanor was totally different, completely hostile and paranoid, with the same sort of stories only this time the footage was going to the CIA and they had a mafia hit out on him. After a few weeks of treatment he'd be back to his still delusional as hell but largely less threatening self.
I guess what I'm saying here is that the odds are good that at least some of these people you're talking about are very likely to be getting help already, and probably have carers and other professionals looking after them. For all you know they've gotten to a point where they can take care of contacting an IT professional on their own, having spent a fair bit of time working out their issues. You could be dealing with them at their best, after a lot of work.
Just let it go. You're only a part of their world for a very small window. Unless they're actively causing harm to themselves or other clients, then you really have no ethical burden to intervene. In fact, it would be unethical for you, someone with no mental health training, to make a snap judgement based on that small window of interaction. Give them the best service you can, the same you would someone who wasn't pinging your crazimeter. For a lot of people with obvious mental health issues, treated or no, that'll mean a fair bit in its own right.
posted by Jilder at 12:10 AM on February 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
As you yourself say, none of you has any medical training. Unless there is a threat of imminent physical injury to them, you or your coworkers, drop it. There's a wide and wonderful rainbow of variation in people, ranging from the upright uptight to the totally freakin' weird, and having to deal with oddballs is normal in customer-contact situations.
posted by easily confused at 3:00 AM on February 5, 2013
posted by easily confused at 3:00 AM on February 5, 2013
Hey, maybe just write a book about it instead, sounds like an interesting topic. Seriously.
posted by Dansaman at 8:06 AM on February 5, 2013
posted by Dansaman at 8:06 AM on February 5, 2013
As a business owner and as a citizen, advocate for more services for mental health treatment. Talk to every person you know about important it is. Let all your representatives know it's important to you. That will help. On behalf of mentally ill people everywhere: Thank you for caring enough to ask.
posted by SyraCarol at 3:12 PM on February 5, 2013
posted by SyraCarol at 3:12 PM on February 5, 2013
I worked in a library and we got some unusual patrons. One was a guy who was possibly autistic, and liked to come in, sit at a table surrounding himself with travel guides to read, and would occasionally stop you to tell you a fact about a country. Another was a woman who went to the art section, took down heavy books, opened them to a picture of angels, took down another and did the same on top of the first, and kept repeating whilst cackling. We also had a couple of people who smelt so bad that I was physically unable to stand being in the same aisle as them.
The advice from management was to treat them as any other person who wanted to use the service, and quietly shelve the books back once they had gone. If they had behaved in a threatening manner or one that made others directly uncomfortable (we weren't keen on the stinky people but they were merely people who didn't smell good rather than being incontinent etc.) then this may have been a different story, but this didn't happen.
posted by mippy at 3:50 PM on February 5, 2013
The advice from management was to treat them as any other person who wanted to use the service, and quietly shelve the books back once they had gone. If they had behaved in a threatening manner or one that made others directly uncomfortable (we weren't keen on the stinky people but they were merely people who didn't smell good rather than being incontinent etc.) then this may have been a different story, but this didn't happen.
posted by mippy at 3:50 PM on February 5, 2013
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by michaelh at 6:46 PM on February 4, 2013 [1 favorite]