Kickstarter rewards

June 19, 2012 7:04 PM

Kickstarter rewards. Is there any system in place to guarantee you will get one if you fund the project (and the funding is successful)? Do creators ever flake out and not send out the rewards?

I just funded a film on kickstarter and spent enough so that I would get a DVD if the funding goes through.

I'm just wondering though, is this something I should count on? I mean, how often do people flake on this sort of thing?

posted by skjønn to Computers & Internet (25 answers total)

It is up to the individuals, not Kickstarter to issue the rewards.

I've never had a Kickstarter not deliver the product/reward promised and I've supported over 25 of them so far and will likely be doing one in the near future myself. I think Internet Shame keeps the vast majority of people from not following up.
posted by beaucoupkevin at 7:13 PM on June 19, 2012

I've had some flake and am currently way behind on the first one I ran. I was planning on delivering April 1st. I missed that deadline.

For the most part I've always gotten my rewards. On occasion a project falls apart.

I think it you want the guarantee you need to wait until it's finished then buy it.

To me a pledge is a nod saying you want to see this thing exist. If it fails to come to fruition it's through no fault of yours.
posted by cjorgensen at 7:18 PM on June 19, 2012

I've gotten a reward in every Kickstarter I've supported that offered them at my level of giving.

That said, depending on what the film is, it's a much longer shot that you'll ever see that DVD. I've worked on a lot of short films where you're inevitably promised a DVD of the film "for your reel". I have yet to receive a single one. And often that's in lieu of payment for people who actually formed the key crew of the project! Usually, too, the scope of the film is such that not very much time will have elapsed between the promise of this DVD, the shooting, and the finished product.

If you're funding a feature length film via Kickstarter, things get a lot more complicated, because often there is a very long road from Kickstarter deadline to finished film. A friend of mine raised $50K to get his feature off the ground about a year and a half ago, and they haven't even started shooting the thing yet. It could be five years before the movie premieres. In which time, the DVD format could become obsolete!

That said, I'm sure people have the best of intentions, and you may well get your DVD in the end. It's hard to really say. I don't think getting an eventual DVD is a good reason to fund a project on Kickstarter. I see it more as a bonus, like when you get a "free gift" for pledging money to PBS or NPR.
posted by Sara C. at 7:22 PM on June 19, 2012

I've contributed to several Kickstarter campaigns. To date, my record is exactly 50/50 in terms of people who follow through vs. people who flake.
posted by spilon at 7:27 PM on June 19, 2012

I've done a few kickstarters. I usually get the main reward (in most cases, a download of the album) right away. I almost never get the "special reward" (ant farm, board game, etc.) for the level I've supported. Don't expect supplementary awards to come promptly.
posted by modernserf at 7:39 PM on June 19, 2012

There is no guarantee. And frankly, your odds of getting a reward are hard to nail down. I've backed 3 things and 2 of them have come to fruition. The first one I backed though, you can read about here.

I'm very gun shy about backing anything on KickStarter these days.
posted by chairface at 7:40 PM on June 19, 2012

There's no guarantee, but if there's a well-known name attached to the project, someone whose reputation would be tarnished if they flaked on their backed project, I think you can rest a little easier.
posted by radwolf76 at 7:51 PM on June 19, 2012

I've only funded two things on Kickstarter, but I've received all the promised rewards. I don't really think its why, but - I DO have other connections to the people involved (facebook connections, etc) - but not in any significant way, so I'd like to think everyone who funded those projects recieved the same as I did.
posted by blaneyphoto at 7:54 PM on June 19, 2012

There is no guarantee. You won't know that someone is going to flake till the rewards are super delayed. By then the deadline for a chargeback on any credit card will have long passed.

One of the projects I've funded is a year out with no response from the creators.
posted by special-k at 7:56 PM on June 19, 2012

Hmm... but now I'm wondering if flaking on a Kickstarter promise is legally actionable - particularly if you're donating 100's or more.
posted by blaneyphoto at 7:56 PM on June 19, 2012

I'm getting a bit itchy waiting for my Order of the Stick package, but I have total faith it'll get to New Zealand eventually.

It's like an online auction, you make a judgment based on experience. Amanda Palmer and Rich Burlew almost certainly aren't going to let you down, John Videogames just might.
posted by Sebmojo at 7:58 PM on June 19, 2012

I think you need to use your judgement based on the reliability of the person that you're supporting. I have 0 doubt that Doublefine is going to deliver all of their rewards, which is part of the reason they were able to raise a million dollars. All the tiny indy game programmers raising a few thousand dollars for a game based on nothing but concept art? I think anybody that donates to them is a chump. You are never going to see a game.
posted by empath at 8:23 PM on June 19, 2012

I think you can rest a little easier.

I backed a fairly big project at a highish level by a MeFi member who people know. It took almost two years to get the reward at the level I funded the project at which was a bummer for me. He eventually came through with it, was incredibly apologetic [he had a lot going on in his life at the time] but it was a real let down. I now only fund projects at much lower levels and honestly I've gotten whatever the offered reward was 100% of the time (mostly from MeFites). Not always promptly but always, and sometimes they changed [the orange shirt I was getting turned into a silver shirt which I didn't want, but hey...]. But yeah you don't have a lot of recourse, and none officially through Kickstarter. They've tried to get better by having people put deadlines along with their reward offers and the public feedback is a really big deal but yeah it's still pretty buyer beware there.
posted by jessamyn at 8:27 PM on June 19, 2012

I'll also add that although I have zero direct evidence of this, I think the simplicity of the rewards might be something of a clue as to whether you'll receive them. For example, a photographer that I know launched a Kickstarter today in order to fund a celebrity portrait project. He's just raising airfare. The rewards are increasingly larger prints, with the top tier reward (at $200) being an autographed print by the photographer and celebrity. Even if I didn't know this guy, it would seem like an easily delivered reward and one that would likely happen.

I guess giving away your money should be something you'd do even if there wasn't the reward, but its certainly wise to evaluate things, particularly at larger dollar amounts.
posted by blaneyphoto at 8:34 PM on June 19, 2012

It totally depends on the creator.

Some, I've gotten them right away and promptly. The Classical has been funded almost a year and I still haven't gotten my reward. One of the writing projects I backed, the guy has been communicative but has also decided to completely rewrite everything two or three times. One, they disappeared after getting funded. On the other hand, Amanda Palmer started giving out sample tracks from the new album before the Kickstarter was even finished and previewed some of the various prizes as works-in-progress. And another one, I got the PDF right away and the guy has been almost annoying with "Okay we're sending the file to the printer" "Okay they made the plates" "Okay here's what it looks like getting ready to go to print..." for the physical copy I ordered.

I've dialed back on my Kickstarting to "People and companies I like enough to give them money" rather than in any hopes of the reward. I'd rather pay more at retail for an actual product when/if it ever comes out.
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 8:39 PM on June 19, 2012

I'm at about 50% on rewards showing up. I mostly now back people I know, or projects with digital rewards. Most of the physical product manufacturing projects I've backed are over a year late with rewards.
posted by judith at 8:54 PM on June 19, 2012

I'm at less than 50/50, having helped fund projects almost 2 years ago. Suppose the reward has to be helping a super-small project, someone's creative vision, get off the ground.
posted by mamabear at 9:15 PM on June 19, 2012

I've backed four:

-a book that is SO behind and unupdated-upon that I'd forgotten about it until now.
-The Classical, which seemed like a loss but they sent an update a couple of weeks ago
-ruler pencils, which were shipped behind schedule but they kept supporters posted so it was fine
-a local food truck's efforts at a storefront. Got an envelope with a voucher for two popsicles just today!

So in my experience....you might see something. The two solid projects both had much simpler rewards.
posted by troika at 9:17 PM on June 19, 2012

I don't think there is any information out there about how frequently creators fail in reward fulfillment... and there are of course many shades of failure possible there.

Technically if a creator fails to fulfill their rewards you can demand a refund, but of course there is no enforcement of this. The most relevant items in the terms of use seem to be:

The Estimated Delivery Date listed on each reward is not a promise to fulfill by that date, but is merely an estimate of when the Project Creator hopes to fulfill by.

Project Creators agree to make a good faith attempt to fulfill each reward by its Estimated Delivery Date.

Kickstarter does not offer refunds. A Project Creator is not required to grant a Backer’s request for a refund unless the Project Creator is unable or unwilling to fulfill the reward.

Project Creators are required to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill.

Project Creators may cancel or refund a Backer’s pledge at any time and for any reason, and if they do so, are not required to fulfill the reward.

Because of occasional failures of payments from Backers, Kickstarter cannot guarantee the full receipt of the amount pledged minus fees.

Kickstarter and its payments partners will remove their fees before transmitting proceeds of a campaign. Fees may vary depending on region and other factors.

Kickstarter is not liable for any damages or loss incurred related to rewards or any other use of the Service. All dealings are solely between Users. Kickstarter is under no obligation to become involved in disputes between any Users, or between Users and any third party. This includes, but is not limited to, delivery of goods and services, and any other terms, conditions, warranties, or representations associated with campaigns on the Site. Kickstarter does not oversee the performance or punctuality of projects. The Company does not endorse any User Submissions. You release Kickstarter, its officers, employees, agents, and successors in rights from claims, damages, and demands of every kind, known or unknown, suspected or unsuspected, disclosed or undisclosed, arising out of or in any way related to such disputes and the Service.

So yeah, Kickstarter (and "Payment Partner" Amazon, presumably) get theirs first and don't ever have to give it back and otherwise, very buyer beware. I basically don't risk the kind of money that would make me overly sad to lose with not a thing to show for it and I'm wary of rewards that seem to overpromise, particularly on individualized creative output which is easy to promise and can be very hard to produce.

That being said I have had great luck, only one of the projects I backed produced underwhelming results thus far and since it was a kind of not-that-well-defined pledge of ongoing productivity from an artist who has become kind of notorious for not finishing projects and more or less vanishing from his project venues for long periods, that one was not a huge surprise.
posted by nanojath at 9:35 PM on June 19, 2012

Just another tangential point - Kickstarter reminds me in some ways of Nervousness.org. It was a collaborative mail art site which had quite a bit of popularity, but I believe has dissolved after periods of decline and rebirth. Anyway, the whole point was that you had to rely on the other person to follow through on the promise of passing along the art object. Seems that the same sort of trust is involved here, only people are more conservative with cash, I suppose. The same sort of trust goes into geocaching, bookcrossing, etc... and I guess the ultimate answer is to not be too invested, financially or personally.
posted by blaneyphoto at 10:25 PM on June 19, 2012

I've backed 37 projects, of which 29 were funded. Of those, I've gotten rewards from 24 of them (although some of the rewards were, basically, "thanks!").

Of the 5 remaining, 4 of them are "in progress" -- three board games and one computer game, all of whom have made recent updates on where they're at. I don't have any doubts about them so far.

The last one will probably never happen. The creators got themselves in over their head and didn't realize how much their project would actually cost. If I take their last update (from last year) at its word, they ran out of money early, met with technical difficulties, one of them moved across the country, &c.

So that's one of the things I think about now when I pledge: Do I think that they can do what they want to do with what they're asking for? The more complex the project, the more you should think about that.

But also: the more complex and "artsy" the project is, the more I think about that. What I mean is, if someone is approaching their project from a purely "creative" POV, I feel like it's more likely that they're being unrealistic about their goals and capabilities.

Thus: movies, as others have said, are iffy to me, because for the above reasons it seems like the most likely type of project for people to get over their heads in. (The project that I've written off was a webseries -- just as bad, I guess.)

(Sometimes it goes the other way, though -- if they're asking for way more money than it seems they would need, it makes me wonder if they're all pie-in-the-sky flakies. But they'll probably fall short anyway.)

Anyway, the golden rule: don't pledge more than you can walk way from. The project that I suspect is dead, I only donated $10 to, so oh well, you know? But I sure feel for the guys that put in $1000.
posted by Karlos the Jackal at 2:55 AM on June 20, 2012

now I'm wondering if flaking on a Kickstarter promise is legally actionable - particularly if you're donating 100's or more.

No obvious reason it couldn't be. But I don't think anyone's tried it yet, as the amount in controversy is so small as to make even a class action pretty unlikely to net anything. We're talking about suing people who, almost by definition, have no money.

Now things might be different if a Kickstarter campaign was funded, the project was completed, and the creators went on to fame and fortune but welched on their commitments to the Kickstarter contributors. That doesn't really seem to happen much though. It's more like someone either takes the money and runs or just craps out and spends the money. In either case, there's no one from whom to get any real money back.

Regardless, suing about $50 or even $1,000 isn't likely to be worth it. Going to cost more than that in attorney fees and litigation costs.
posted by valkyryn at 6:19 AM on June 20, 2012

There are no guarantees in life.
posted by dgeiser13 at 9:07 AM on June 20, 2012

I think you need to use your judgement based on the reliability of the person that you're supporting

It's fairly difficult to judge the reliability of someone when you have nothing to go on. A slick video is really all it takes to get a project funded on Kickstarter. Hire an actor, and a team to produce a video and you can make bank with zero consequences. Kickstarter takes a cut but not the responsibility (seems very much like the early days of internet auction sites) but this cannot be sustainable in the long term.
posted by special-k at 9:13 AM on June 20, 2012

Oddly enough I just sent an email today to one of the projects I supported because I realized (really late) that I never received the reward. They have gotten back to me already and I am sure it was a simple mistake that will be rectified.

This is my first mishap with the reward system, but I haven't funded that many projects.
posted by Julnyes at 2:11 PM on June 21, 2012