Car Buying Advice with Snowflake Details Inside!
June 15, 2012 3:14 PM Subscribe
How much should I pay for this car? How much should I expect for my trade-in? And how should I play the negotiation game?
I have good news and bad news: My 2001 Beetle has been with me a long time now, and it's time to upgrade. Yeah that's both the good and the bad!
I have found this car and I want to buy it. I can't see how much it's worth on KBB (NADA lets me enter it, but assumes it's new and won't let me add mileage or anything) because it's used AND a 2012, and maybe also because Fiats are so new and may not be listed yet. I feel like it's a good price because a brand new one is around $15,500, but I also feel like I owe it to myself to bargain.
My Beetle is in SUPER SHITTY shape (as in, my boyfriend says the engine block is probably cracked, based on his decent knowledge of cars), but I do own it outright.
I have been approved for $15,600 but was looking to spend more in the $12,000 range for a 2010 car. Since I'll be getting a 2012, I figured the extra dough is a decent investment.
Where you guys come in is: How much should I offer? How much should I expect on my trade? And how do I avoid all the fancy "Oh we'll just give you SO MUCH for your trade in but secretly roll it into the loan" crap? Last time I bought a car was a while ago, and it was from a used car dealership and I felt pretty comfortable making them stick to their published offer. I also didn't have a trade in so that took some of the pressure off. As an added caveat: I really don't want to have to pay any cash up front. I know that's probably unwise, but if I can avoid plunking down a couple hundred bucks for taxes, etc., I would be happy. Mostly because I'm broke and need to buy a new car before the Beetle conks out on me for good!
So far the dealer said in email that he would give me $1500 for the Beetle. If I paid full price for the Fiat, that'd bring the price down to a more manageable amount. How much further should I go? Any general bargaining tips are welcome as well!
I have good news and bad news: My 2001 Beetle has been with me a long time now, and it's time to upgrade. Yeah that's both the good and the bad!
I have found this car and I want to buy it. I can't see how much it's worth on KBB (NADA lets me enter it, but assumes it's new and won't let me add mileage or anything) because it's used AND a 2012, and maybe also because Fiats are so new and may not be listed yet. I feel like it's a good price because a brand new one is around $15,500, but I also feel like I owe it to myself to bargain.
My Beetle is in SUPER SHITTY shape (as in, my boyfriend says the engine block is probably cracked, based on his decent knowledge of cars), but I do own it outright.
I have been approved for $15,600 but was looking to spend more in the $12,000 range for a 2010 car. Since I'll be getting a 2012, I figured the extra dough is a decent investment.
Where you guys come in is: How much should I offer? How much should I expect on my trade? And how do I avoid all the fancy "Oh we'll just give you SO MUCH for your trade in but secretly roll it into the loan" crap? Last time I bought a car was a while ago, and it was from a used car dealership and I felt pretty comfortable making them stick to their published offer. I also didn't have a trade in so that took some of the pressure off. As an added caveat: I really don't want to have to pay any cash up front. I know that's probably unwise, but if I can avoid plunking down a couple hundred bucks for taxes, etc., I would be happy. Mostly because I'm broke and need to buy a new car before the Beetle conks out on me for good!
So far the dealer said in email that he would give me $1500 for the Beetle. If I paid full price for the Fiat, that'd bring the price down to a more manageable amount. How much further should I go? Any general bargaining tips are welcome as well!
Wait, what's going on here?
You admit you're broke and suggest that even paying a couple hundred dollars for registration and taxes would be problem. If that's the case, you should not be buying a $12k-$14k car. You certainly should not be doing what you're suggesting to do. Here's what's going on wrong:
posted by saeculorum at 3:54 PM on June 15, 2012 [5 favorites]
You admit you're broke and suggest that even paying a couple hundred dollars for registration and taxes would be problem. If that's the case, you should not be buying a $12k-$14k car. You certainly should not be doing what you're suggesting to do. Here's what's going on wrong:
- You have a working car now. When you have no money to buy a new car and have a working car, you should not buy a new car.
- You have no money and want to minimize the cost of a car, but are considering trading in your car to the dealer. This is never the way to maximize the price you get on your vehicle. You should be selling your car privately, not trading it in.
- You are buying a trendy 2012 year car that has a questionable history. There are only three ways that a 2012 year car gets back on the car market after only 3200 miles - the owner died and the estate sold the car to a dealer, the car was repossessed, or the car was totaled in some way. Older people tend not to drive Fiat 500s, so the first choice is not likely. The last choice is definitely not something you want to deal with. The middle choice is not the best, either.
- You are price-conscious, but have already picked out exactly the trendy car you want. If you are looking for price, you need to be willing to walk away from a dealer. Since you've already asked the dealer about trade-in (with a similar trendy car), they know you are not price-conscious, and will not be willing to negotiate as much. You need to be picking a car that is boring and is available at every dealer in the state, so that you can go to every dealer, offer the bare minimum price that is tolerable to them, and then go to the next dealer if they refuse.
posted by saeculorum at 3:54 PM on June 15, 2012 [5 favorites]
Response by poster: Well the loan I have comes with caveats. I have to buy a certain year car or else my interest rate goes up--2012 model year has the lowest interest. I can totally afford the monthly payments and insurance, but RIGHT NOW TODAY I do not have $500 EXTRA dollars to pay on tag/title. It seems to me like it'd be nice to have my trade-in count as that money. If you read the entire question, you'd see that my car is not exactly working. It has a cracked engine block, in addition to numerous other problems. I would rather trade the car in than sell it, as I could not in good conscious sell that car to an individual. I'd rather let the pros do that, or have them sell it at auction. The Fiat has good reviews, and is nearly brand new and is under warranty. I have seen the Carfax and it has a clean title, one owner, and all records. It sounds to me like it just was not the car for that buyer (it's pretty dang small, which doesn't bother me). It is not necessarily the exact car I want--I am also interested in a Ford Fiesta or Nissan Versa, which are similar in price range. But, I couldn't find a Fiesta that took my financing, or a Versa with as low miles. I feel like since I'll be paying off the car for 4 years, I deserve to buy one I like. I have searched and not been able to find another Fiat in this price range. I do appreciate your advice, though!
posted by masquesoporfavor at 4:02 PM on June 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by masquesoporfavor at 4:02 PM on June 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
Best answer: There are only three ways that a 2012 year car gets back on the car market after only 3200 miles - the owner died and the estate sold the car to a dealer, the car was repossessed, or the car was totaled in some way.
Or 4: Someone thought it was kooky and cute, bought it and it drove them mental because it was much smaller and cramped than they hoped it would be - spoilt offspring's first car perhaps? There are all kind of ways a car can be turned around quickly and they aren't all necessarily bad. With this type of car, I'd be much more inclined to believe it was a "car looked great and SUPER CUTE on paper, but isn't liveable with with my friends/Dog/shopping/etc lifestyle" choice. A more run of the mill car I can see assuming the worst, but not so much with something like a Fiat 500.
This is never the way to maximize the price you get on your vehicle.
This is, however, an excellent way to get rid of a car with a cracked block. It's the nearest thing to a morally righteous way. If the car genuinely has a cracked block (although I'd suspect a head gasket as more likely) then trying to sell it to a private seller is kind of mean. A dealer will give you the trade in, check the car over and then either auction the car off to trade or just scrap it and hardly lose money. After all, a 2001 Beetle either in need of an engine replacement or major engine work probably isn't worth $1500 even if you can get that for it.
If you don't do much in the way of mileage, don't worry about 'low miles' so much. It'll only really hurt you on resale value and the average is 10-14,000 or more. If you won't do that then don't worry so much.
I think ditch the Beetle before it bites you in the back end is an excellent choice given your circumstances. Not sure a 2012 is your best bet, but bear in mind that if you have options (and teh Beetle is still working right now) then having the ability to walk away is your best bet. Work out what you want to pay, be firm, be absolutely ready to walk away and do so if you don't get what you want. There are lots of cars out there.
posted by Brockles at 4:10 PM on June 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
Or 4: Someone thought it was kooky and cute, bought it and it drove them mental because it was much smaller and cramped than they hoped it would be - spoilt offspring's first car perhaps? There are all kind of ways a car can be turned around quickly and they aren't all necessarily bad. With this type of car, I'd be much more inclined to believe it was a "car looked great and SUPER CUTE on paper, but isn't liveable with with my friends/Dog/shopping/etc lifestyle" choice. A more run of the mill car I can see assuming the worst, but not so much with something like a Fiat 500.
This is never the way to maximize the price you get on your vehicle.
This is, however, an excellent way to get rid of a car with a cracked block. It's the nearest thing to a morally righteous way. If the car genuinely has a cracked block (although I'd suspect a head gasket as more likely) then trying to sell it to a private seller is kind of mean. A dealer will give you the trade in, check the car over and then either auction the car off to trade or just scrap it and hardly lose money. After all, a 2001 Beetle either in need of an engine replacement or major engine work probably isn't worth $1500 even if you can get that for it.
If you don't do much in the way of mileage, don't worry about 'low miles' so much. It'll only really hurt you on resale value and the average is 10-14,000 or more. If you won't do that then don't worry so much.
I think ditch the Beetle before it bites you in the back end is an excellent choice given your circumstances. Not sure a 2012 is your best bet, but bear in mind that if you have options (and teh Beetle is still working right now) then having the ability to walk away is your best bet. Work out what you want to pay, be firm, be absolutely ready to walk away and do so if you don't get what you want. There are lots of cars out there.
posted by Brockles at 4:10 PM on June 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
If you think the price is reasonable, offer $12K and see how much less you can get them to go. But you don't have to get any certain discount if it's the car you want and you've looked around and feel the price is reasonable. The dealership owns the car for less than they've listed it for, sometimes not much less and sometimes a lot less, but they have to sell it for more than they own it for or they will not be in business.
I don't know what your trade is worth because you haven't given any details about it and there's no way to really know without looking. The fact that the dealer has offered you $1500 site unseen, tells me you should be able to get more. Making you an offer without seeing it means that is what they would pay if it were in the worst possible condition. But, it does sound like your trade may be in rough shape, so $1500 may not be unreasonable.
You should be able to roll the taxes and dealer fees into the loan.
You deserve the car you want and as long as you feel comfortable with the terms and can make the payments, there's no reason you should not buy it. Whether the purchase amount is financially wise for you to finance is not clear, but you have not asked about that.
posted by doomtop at 4:14 PM on June 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
I don't know what your trade is worth because you haven't given any details about it and there's no way to really know without looking. The fact that the dealer has offered you $1500 site unseen, tells me you should be able to get more. Making you an offer without seeing it means that is what they would pay if it were in the worst possible condition. But, it does sound like your trade may be in rough shape, so $1500 may not be unreasonable.
You should be able to roll the taxes and dealer fees into the loan.
You deserve the car you want and as long as you feel comfortable with the terms and can make the payments, there's no reason you should not buy it. Whether the purchase amount is financially wise for you to finance is not clear, but you have not asked about that.
posted by doomtop at 4:14 PM on June 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
This is the CR Car Pricing Service. You pay for it separately from a print or online subscription to the magazine. (The service lost some features in a revamp in the last year, but I'm not sure exactly what went away.) CR also has advice on negotiating a lower price, which is worth the cost of admission either way. The main one is not to allow the dealer to fold both the trade-in and the sale into one transaction, because that lets them play around with squeezing the balloon so that they still win. It's also basically never a good idea, if price is important to you, to fall in love with a certain car and basically let the dealer see that you're open to manipulation if you can't get it; you need to be able to walk away from any transaction. So certainly treat this as just one of several options, at least in terms of what cards you show the dealer.
I tend toward Brockles's answer, especially wrt the trade-in being more ethical. I wouldn't want to sell a shitty car privately unless I sold it as a "parts" or "project" car. I'm not sure an '01 Beetle really qualifies for either (the air-cooled models certainly would, though).
posted by dhartung at 4:46 PM on June 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
I tend toward Brockles's answer, especially wrt the trade-in being more ethical. I wouldn't want to sell a shitty car privately unless I sold it as a "parts" or "project" car. I'm not sure an '01 Beetle really qualifies for either (the air-cooled models certainly would, though).
posted by dhartung at 4:46 PM on June 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
I just wanted to jump in here to say that many public libraries allow you to access Consumer Reports online for free, as long as you have a library card. Might save you the cost of a subscription.
posted by Ostara at 11:27 PM on June 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Ostara at 11:27 PM on June 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
The car pricing service, where you give it the specific parameters of the vehicle you're looking at, is a one-time service with its own fee structure. It is not included in the price of a subscription. (They're a non-profit; it's a revenue center.) What you get with a subscription is just general advice, like maybe that an '07 Mazda has had issues with the transmission.
posted by dhartung at 12:58 AM on June 16, 2012
posted by dhartung at 12:58 AM on June 16, 2012
« Older I'm looking for mac and/or web software that will... | How can an atheist/catholic marriage succeed? Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by HMSSM at 3:17 PM on June 15, 2012 [1 favorite]