We found our dream house, but boy does it smell...
June 3, 2012 1:30 PM   Subscribe

My fiance and I went house hunting today. We found a house that we both love. One problem, the attached mother-in-law suite stinks...

My guy and the real estate agent smelled a little bit of something, but to me it reeked so bad I had to hold my nose and was trying to open windows so I could breath. It smelled like urine, fresh urine. Maybe it's rodents, or maybe the previous occupants had pets there and the smell is coming up through the new carpeting. This is the *only* place in the house that smelled. It's a one story ranch-style house.

Anyway, the place is just what we're looking for, and we both love it. Our agent says that the mother-in-law suite has been recently carpeted (it's the only place that's carpeted, everywhere else has hard wood floors). She says that we can ask the seller to pull up the carpeting because of the smell as part of the negotiation. I'm not sure if that will help if the smell has gone all the way to the subfloor.

The house has been on the market for a few months. The pictures on Zillow were definitely taken in the winter (dead grass, bare trees where now there is green grass and green trees) and the place was empty then. We'll probably need to have the place exterminated because it's been empty for so long... But my question is, if I'm smelling something so bad I have to leave the area, is this a red light, as in run away, run far away, and don't look back? or is it probably something that can be taken care of with a little fresh air and some other steps like ripping up the carpet and putting down hardwood?

Like I said, my fiance and the agent didn't really smell it as bad as I did. They both said they smelled something a little bit, and they thoroughly inspected the suite while I stood in the other room and eventually had to even close the door to the suite. My fiance says I have a "sensitive nose" and maybe he's right, but this just reeked. I would really like this house, but I don't want to spend a fortune getting rid of this smell. BTW, neither my fiance or I have ever bought a house before so we're both on uncharted water.
posted by patheral to Home & Garden (26 answers total)
 
If it's been freshly carpeted, could the smell be the odor of the new carpet itself? It can be quite strong, and I've certainly seen people's sensitivity to that kind of odor vary greatly. Why not bring in you mother-in-law to smell for herself? If she's okay with it and you can get the smell to fade over time either on its own or through some other method, this shouldn't be a dealbreaker.
posted by anildash at 1:36 PM on June 3, 2012 [1 favorite]


Best answer: inspection inspection inspection.

Seriously, inspection. If the mother-in-law suite has a rodent problem, or some other pee problem, your inspector might catch it. If it doesn't have a pee problem, you are right to want to know why it smells like stink to you.

Go with an inspector who is licensed and bonded and try to get a time when you can be there to make sure the inspector looks in all the crevices and crawl spaces and crannies. Do not accept an inspector who says "well, this crawl space is sealed up. nothing to see here!" and moves along. You want everything opened. You want all the electrical stuff investigated (for having been put in properly to start with, and for having been gnawed on in the meantime.)

On preview, yes. Brand new carpets reeks like pee to me also. But so does pee!
posted by bilabial at 1:49 PM on June 3, 2012 [3 favorites]


Why not bring in you mother-in-law to smell for herself? If she's okay with it and you can get the smell to fade over time either on its own or through some other method, this shouldn't be a dealbreaker.

a mother-in-law suite indicates an attached, self-contained apartment unit, separate from the house—not necessarily that the OP's mother-in-law would be living in it.

OP, if you are quite serious about the house and want to put in a bid, you will be getting an inspection and you can write in a contingency on having the smell removed based on the inspector's report and recommendation. or you can use it to back out of the contract if a satisfactory outcome can't be achieved.
posted by violetk at 1:50 PM on June 3, 2012 [3 favorites]


Best answer: I'd also suspect that new carpet. New carpet can outgas a great deal especially if the room is closed after laying and someone is sensitive to odors anyway. It's much more likely than a stinky subfloor.

You need to find out so point it out to your realtor and, if it is still there after a thorough airing out, ask for inspection of the floor underneath. Even if the smell is gone and you're like me, you'll keep thinking you smell it. If the smell is not coming from the floor but only from the carpet, just plan on replacing it and see what kind of negotiation you can make to accommodate that, maybe they'll pay to remove the carpet and you'll pay for the new flooring. Or DIY.

If the structure is sound and the inspections are all good, don't let this experience of residual odor from the carpet spook you out of having the house you want.
posted by Anitanola at 2:05 PM on June 3, 2012


Bad smells really detract from the joy of having laid down 1000s of dollars for 30 years for a house, though. Especially if whatever they do doesn't really remove it and you have to spend more of your money trying to get rid of it.

I have a really sensitive nose, and new carpets do not smell like pee to me. Only pee does. And pee is right up there with skunk and cigarettes in the Smells That Will Not Die department.

All this to say, it's up to you how to go forward. I hate bad smells enough that I would just keep looking instead of trying to suss out and solve the problem, because I've enough so many bad experiences trying to put up with/unsuccessfully trying to get rid of pee smells. It's a nightmare I never want to deal with again.
posted by emjaybee at 2:15 PM on June 3, 2012 [1 favorite]


I once bought a house (bungalow with full basement) despite the fact that it absolutely reeked of cat/dog urine and none of the chemical cleaning companies consulted would guarantee that cleaning alone would remove the odor. We took this into account (i.e., the possibility that we might have to replace flooring and/or woodwork) when we bid on the house. (This was 20+ years ago and submitting a bid with a contingency regarding ridding the house of the smell wasn't acceptable, but given today's housing market, you may have better luck.)

As it turns out, between the cleaning and refinishing the floors, which we would have done anyway, the smell was gone. Even my mother—with the incredibly sensitive nose and outright disdain for cats—agreed.

Since you're just dealing with one room, perhaps you could calculate a worse case situation, e.g., the cost of replacing a wood floor and stripping walls down to the studs, and factor that into your bid.
posted by she's not there at 2:24 PM on June 3, 2012


Response by poster: VioletK is right, this is a space that my fiance and I will be utilizing ourselves, probably as an office space or he might make it his "man cave." I didn't even consider that it might be the new carpet. Thanks for bringing that to light. I'll bring that up with the real estate agent and possibly the inspector. We'll definitely get it thoroughly inspected since it's not new construction.

Thanks. I can always count on AskMe.
posted by patheral at 2:28 PM on June 3, 2012


"you can write in a contingency on having the smell removed based on the inspector's report and recommendation"

You don't need to go even that far. You can include a contingency on having the smell removed to your satisfaction.

(I have installed lots of carpet in my life, and I can smell the adhesive (very much like urine) for weeks longer than anyone else. It does eventually go away.)
posted by Ardiril at 2:35 PM on June 3, 2012


Best answer: If there is evidence of vermin, make the seller get a "critter bond" (a.k.a. a vermin exclusion bond) on the house with an exterminator. They'll send someone out to remove any existing vermin and plug up all the ways a critter can get into the house. If any get in after that, it's on the exterminator to take care of it. It might cost a few hundred dollars up front, and then maybe a hundred or so a year after that to keep it up.
posted by ob1quixote at 2:50 PM on June 3, 2012


It looks like having the carpet professionally cleaned using a water extraction method can really help speed up the process if the problem is new carpet smell. I would suggest including your offer that during the inspection period, seller agrees to permit you to have carpet professionally cleaned at your expense. Then you will know if it worked before you have to decide whether or not to go ahead with the purchase. (In my (California) experience, you can back out of the contract if anything turns up in the inspection that makes you not want to buy the house. Double check with your agent on that.) Anyway, cleaning the carpets in one room is cheap compared to the cost of buying a house, seller shouldn't object if it is at your cost and done professionally and if it works you will have much more peace of mind.
posted by metahawk at 3:09 PM on June 3, 2012


Some chemical smells, like adhesives and plastics, smell like skunk to me. I agree; get the toughest inspector you can find. If it's off-gassing, it will go away with time and open windows. If it's pee, it can be resolved with considerably more effort.
posted by theora55 at 3:29 PM on June 3, 2012


I agree that it could just be the carpet. But if it isn't, don't buy the house.

The best advice anyone gave to me when we bought our first house last year was that people have a tendency to imagine that the problem(s) they can detect are going to be the only problems with the house. But that is actually very uncommon. So you calculate how much time, effort, and money it will take to fix what you can see, and decide you can afford that. Then it actually turns out there's a bunch of hidden things that cost that much again. Save your money and effort for the hidden things. There will be another amazing house that doesn't have any overt problems.

(We bought a great place with no structural issues or nagging worries or really anything that HAD to be done, and one year later, we've spent nearly $10,000 on SURPRISE issues like giant trees that turned out to have been illegally planted and have to be removed, water leaks in the underground pipes, and heating that broke down three months in.)
posted by lollusc at 4:07 PM on June 3, 2012 [2 favorites]


Response by poster: lollusc, since this is our first (and only, we want to grow old here) house we're planning on not only getting a home inspector but to have the sewer pipes inspected because there's a tree out front, and the roof certified. We'll probably do this with any house we look at buying.
posted by patheral at 4:20 PM on June 3, 2012


Best answer: Should be obvious, but never never use an inspector or anyone else who was recommended by the real estate agent or anyone you even suspect of being affiliated with the real estate agent or the seller.

Along the same lines, keep in mind that your real estate agent may be the exception, but in general real estate agent incentives are the opposite of their clients: because agents make the bulk of their money on the fact of a transaction, not on the price, in order to facilitate the consumation of a sale, the buyer's agent has an incentive to urge the buyers to offer and settle for the highest possible price; the seller's agent has an incentive to urge the seller to accept the lowest prices. Again, your mileage may vary.
posted by RandlePatrickMcMurphy at 5:21 PM on June 3, 2012


Sure, cool, but seriously, we did all that, (engineers' report, structural inspection, inspection of trees wrt sewers/water pipes, pest inspection, etc) and things still got missed. All the issues that turned up for us are things that wouldn't have been caught on any standard inspection (tree situation) and/or that weren't a problem at the time but developed later (heating, water pipe). Everyone I know who bought a house had SOME unexpected problem arise in the first year. Maybe you'll be lucky, but don't count on it!
posted by lollusc at 5:39 PM on June 3, 2012 [1 favorite]


If the flooring had been ruined by repeated pet urination, that might explain why new carpet was put down. The problem could well be that the odor is really coming from the subflooring under the carpet; which should have been replaced as well. This is exactly what the problem was when we purchased one of our former homes.
posted by imjustsaying at 3:57 AM on June 4, 2012


The smell could either be cats or mold. Mold can hide anywhere. Also cat pee is hard to get rid of it the cats owner did nothing about it. IF I were you i would skip this house unless you dont mind having to possibly rip up all the carpets/ floors and the sheetrock.

I am surprised nobody mentioned cats. IF the previous owner had multiple cats and did not clean up after them the smells will be in everything. MY mother works for our local county with the counties home inspectors and engineers. they told my mom to stay away from any house that had cats and that smells of urine.

Unless you do not mind having to rip up EVERYTHING , walls included, I would stay away.
posted by majortom1981 at 4:45 AM on June 4, 2012 [1 favorite]


Response by poster: I'm pretty sure it wasn't mold. Mold has a different smell. This had a distinctive urine smell. I've never been around fresh-laid carpet, so it could well be the carpets. My fiance got in touch with the real estate agent to make another appointment for another walk-through. This time, he's bringing a friend of his who used to do industrial building inspection (mold, etc...), and she's going to see if she can spot anything with a cursory look. If she can't see anything wrong, we'll go forward with the home inspectors.

Thanks for the advice, y'all!
posted by patheral at 7:21 AM on June 4, 2012


The most obvious and likely cause of the strong urine smell is the previous occupant having cats or other animals that were urinating in the room. That's significantly more likely than the smell of new carpet causing the odor.

If there was a large amount of urine damage fixing it can be a lot of work, involving replacing carpet, pad, subfloor, baseboards, and maybe even drywall part way up the walls, depending on where and how the animals were urinating. I'd get an estimate to do all of that, and factor that into the purchase price, before deciding on the house.
posted by 6550 at 4:15 PM on June 4, 2012


Response by poster: This may be too late to get any more advice, but my fiance pointed out that the smell really didn't get strong until I opened a closet in the mother in law suite. He said he remembered me "smelling something" while walking through the suite, but I didn't start complaining vehemently until I looked in a closet. He says that it was after I opened the closet that he and the agent could smell anything, and the smell became intolerable to me. I guess I didn't remember that because it smelled bad to me the entire time.

Maybe it's something in the closet? That would kind of rule out previous pets, but would give credence to rodents or mold, right?

Either way, we're going back this weekend to see what's what.
posted by patheral at 11:58 AM on June 5, 2012


If a litter box was located in the closet that could explain why the smell seems to originate from there.

If the house was otherwise well taken care of, I think it suggests pets as being more likely than rodents. People that take care of their house will have a low tolerance for rodent damage, but emotional attachment to pets can allow pets to cause a significant amount of damage.
posted by 6550 at 1:32 PM on June 5, 2012


Response by poster: 6550, I bring up rodents as something that's happened since the house was vacated. It's been on the market for a good three months that we know about. I'm suggesting that perhaps vermin found their way into the house via the closet and created a stench somehow, not that they previous occupants had a rodent problem.
posted by patheral at 4:06 PM on June 5, 2012


Best answer: So you want to lift the carpet, particularly in the closet, but really several spots in the room. All the corners. Can you tell if the walls and/or baseboard are freshly painted in that room? If so, that might be indication that mold or water damage has been covered over. There are lots of kinds of mold. Some may make a room smell like urine.

Additionally, you can get moisture detector things that you poke into drywall and they have a little read out window. First, it should meet some resistance and not just crumble through. Second, if the wall is moist, that is bad. Your industrial inspector friend might have one.

Your suspicion of rodents is possible because if the closet was closed then it was dark, and likely warm through the winter. It's easier to keep your babies warm in a smaller space, if you catch my drift. The cat hypothesis though, is also valid, because you can prop a closet door open and give kitty enough privacy to do his/her business without the people having to look at the box all day. It also would keep the pee smell contained more to the closet if the door were only ajar.

And others above are correct that the realtor is not working for you or for the seller. The realtor is working for the realtor. When realtors sell their own homes, they stay on the market longer and get a higher price than when the same realtors sell the homes of clients. They are basically doing ___ hours of work for the same amount of money. The more times a realtor visits this property with you, the more phone calls they make, the more riders are added to this contract, the more other properties they research and visit with you, the less their hourly wage. If they can find a way to convince you to buy this house, they will use it. Because time spent helping you is time not spent finding and helping another client.

The realtor is unlikely to have any useful advice about what this smell might be, how to get it remediated effectively, and how to bail on the sale if it is not. If you write a contract and the seller falls through, the agent may still pressure to compromise. Because again, this is their livelihood, and they don't have to live with the pee smell. Not even for a night.
posted by bilabial at 8:14 PM on June 6, 2012


Best answer: …in order to facilitate the consumation of a sale, the buyer's agent has an incentive to urge the buyers to offer and settle for the highest possible price…

if you are dealing with a good real estate agent, it actually behooves the agent to advocate for you. why? because, while they may get a few thousand dollars more from pushing you to settle for a higher price, they will get much more in the long run by building trust with you which would lead to referrals and from the future sale of your home, or another future purchase by you—bc you were happy with the job they did. you're not going to refer them if you feel they screwed you. this is why it's important to find an agent who comes highly recommended by ppl you know. i've dealt with two such agents in both cities i've lived in (one of them i used to both buy and then later sell the same property) when i bought property and, years later, i still refer people to them and i still get cards and updates from them thanking me for doing so—and i would absolutely use them again.
posted by violetk at 9:27 AM on June 7, 2012


Response by poster: We're going to look at this property again this weekend. My fiance also asked the agent to keep looking for other properties similar to this one if we find I really cannot stand the smell again.

As for the agent, she was recommended to us through my fiance's credit union. She has no ties with this house at all. We asked her to show us several properties we found on Zillow and this just happened to be one we liked. I'm pretty sure she'll be our advocate when negotiating the contract, mostly because I'm sure she wouldn't want to lose her standing (and incentives) with the credit union if we complain to them that she did a crap job with us.

I'll definitely check under the carpet. I really like the house; it's perfect for us, but I just don't know about that smell.
posted by patheral at 10:20 AM on June 7, 2012


Response by poster: If anyone's keeping tabs, we went to look at the house, and yes, it stank again. My SO's friend said the stench was most likely chemical (she's thinking the adhesive for the carpet). We also looked a lot closer at a few things and neither of us were as enamored with the place as we were the first time. It's still on our list, but we're looking at other places now.
posted by patheral at 7:47 PM on June 12, 2012


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