Beautiful women, what should the ugly, creepy guy do after saying I love you
May 30, 2012 10:12 AM Subscribe
I made a horrible mistake. I told Tracy I love her.
It was just after the after meeting dinner (its a self-help meeting). Tracy, Don and I were walking back to her car. She hadn't been able to get to the meetings and was really missing us. As she was getting into the car, I blurted out "I love you". Pregnant pause; "I love you too".
Geez that was stupid. Tracy is a wonderful woman. Of course, attractive and not fat like me. She's been working on getting a master yoga certificate. She's got a happy energy that I can gather with hugs. She has a strange wisdom; the strange ability to get me to ask good questions about myself but not necessarily has the answers. I get the idea that I really need to listen to her.
Somehow, I have been helpful to her too. She's also gotten something out of my sharing at the meeting. She likes my writing...and says I should publish.
Now Don is her better, longer, friend of hers and heard me tell her this. He was feeling me out last Saturday and stated the obvious: "Tracy's really cute". I replied "and she has a wonderful energy."
I hope that everything can go back to the way it was. I'd be happy to also email her some of my writing that she said she liked. But, in the past, I would at the very least be rejected. Sometimes asked to leave me alone. I could co-exist at the meeting and not initiate any contact with her. I hope that it doesn't mean that either she or I couldn't go to the meeting anymore.
But, I fear I ruined a friendship. I'd like to explain myself to her and this is what I'd say:
I am sorry I told you I love you. You are getting me to generate strong emotions and I am glad for that because I need to learn to deal with them rather than stuff them. However, this is a burden on you that you shouldn't have to bear.
Is that enough? Should I offer to never talk to her again?
It was just after the after meeting dinner (its a self-help meeting). Tracy, Don and I were walking back to her car. She hadn't been able to get to the meetings and was really missing us. As she was getting into the car, I blurted out "I love you". Pregnant pause; "I love you too".
Geez that was stupid. Tracy is a wonderful woman. Of course, attractive and not fat like me. She's been working on getting a master yoga certificate. She's got a happy energy that I can gather with hugs. She has a strange wisdom; the strange ability to get me to ask good questions about myself but not necessarily has the answers. I get the idea that I really need to listen to her.
Somehow, I have been helpful to her too. She's also gotten something out of my sharing at the meeting. She likes my writing...and says I should publish.
Now Don is her better, longer, friend of hers and heard me tell her this. He was feeling me out last Saturday and stated the obvious: "Tracy's really cute". I replied "and she has a wonderful energy."
I hope that everything can go back to the way it was. I'd be happy to also email her some of my writing that she said she liked. But, in the past, I would at the very least be rejected. Sometimes asked to leave me alone. I could co-exist at the meeting and not initiate any contact with her. I hope that it doesn't mean that either she or I couldn't go to the meeting anymore.
But, I fear I ruined a friendship. I'd like to explain myself to her and this is what I'd say:
I am sorry I told you I love you. You are getting me to generate strong emotions and I am glad for that because I need to learn to deal with them rather than stuff them. However, this is a burden on you that you shouldn't have to bear.
Is that enough? Should I offer to never talk to her again?
It sounds like you are having an anxious freakout about the possibility that she may reject you, but she hasn't actually rejected you. You expressed your feelings and got a positive reaction. Nothing you have described so far is actually a problem yet, and you have not given any good reason to expect that there will be a problem in the future.
You think you're "the ugly creepy guy", but if she thought you were the ugly creepy guy, she wouldn't have talked with you as much as she apparently already has. I doubt she would describe you the same way you describe yourself.
You "fear you ruined a friendship", but you don't know that. You said that you loved her, and she said that she loved you, and now you don't know what's next: sure, that's scary, but that's not ruining a friendship.
posted by Mars Saxman at 10:23 AM on May 30, 2012 [2 favorites]
You think you're "the ugly creepy guy", but if she thought you were the ugly creepy guy, she wouldn't have talked with you as much as she apparently already has. I doubt she would describe you the same way you describe yourself.
You "fear you ruined a friendship", but you don't know that. You said that you loved her, and she said that she loved you, and now you don't know what's next: sure, that's scary, but that's not ruining a friendship.
posted by Mars Saxman at 10:23 AM on May 30, 2012 [2 favorites]
Considering the fact that she reciprocated I don't see why you need to apologize or explain your actions. The stuff you want to say would be considerably more of a burden, as you put it, than three words. "I love you" is a surprisingly vague statement when you step outside of the scenario in your head. People love each other in many, many different ways. Email her your writing, go on being exactly the same person you were being before the blurting, and dollars to donuts nothing will be different.
Unless, of course, you're in love with her and want to pursue her. In that case, and between her response and your conversation with Don, I'd say go for it.
(As an aside, the moment you genuinely stop considering yourself as "the ugly, creepy guy" is going to be very close to the moment you realize that you don't have to apologize for your emotions.)
posted by griphus at 10:24 AM on May 30, 2012 [15 favorites]
Unless, of course, you're in love with her and want to pursue her. In that case, and between her response and your conversation with Don, I'd say go for it.
(As an aside, the moment you genuinely stop considering yourself as "the ugly, creepy guy" is going to be very close to the moment you realize that you don't have to apologize for your emotions.)
posted by griphus at 10:24 AM on May 30, 2012 [15 favorites]
You made an honest mistake, and you seem like you want to cower in terror from it. I don't think that's going to be helpful or needed. You don't need to preemptively reject yourself for an honest mistake. Your response seems like a good start, if you remove the self-hate from it. You making a mistake isn't some sort of massive burden to bear, it's just a verbal slip.
*Are* you romantically interested in her? If not, this should be easy to counter. "I like your energy and I think that's where my verbal slip came from, but I want to clarify that it isn't actually true and I like you only as a friend."
If you really do have strong romantic feelings for her, ask her out already. It's not like she called you a creep and ran away. Clearly, you like her. Why not?
posted by zug at 10:24 AM on May 30, 2012
*Are* you romantically interested in her? If not, this should be easy to counter. "I like your energy and I think that's where my verbal slip came from, but I want to clarify that it isn't actually true and I like you only as a friend."
If you really do have strong romantic feelings for her, ask her out already. It's not like she called you a creep and ran away. Clearly, you like her. Why not?
posted by zug at 10:24 AM on May 30, 2012
What? Why would you apologise or offer to never speak to her again? Why are you perceiving your love as a burden other people have to bear? That's an awful way to feel about yourself.
"Love" is an awfully big bucket. It includes affectionate love, romantic love, filial love, sexual love, unconditional love, etc. I gather from the angst behind your question that you mean you love her romantically, but it's not clear to me and I doubt this kind of proclamation in a parking lot was clear to her, either. I love lots of my friends and tell them so often; gender and orientation is not relevant to me in that interaction. In addition, not to put too fine a point on the stereotype, serious yoga folk and those who have substantive conversations about energy outside of physics labs are often quite... generous and encompassing with their declarations of emotions. What was a rare and weighty occurrence for you may not be at all the same for her, in other words. Stop freaking out. Grab hold of yourself, man.
posted by DarlingBri at 10:27 AM on May 30, 2012 [26 favorites]
"Love" is an awfully big bucket. It includes affectionate love, romantic love, filial love, sexual love, unconditional love, etc. I gather from the angst behind your question that you mean you love her romantically, but it's not clear to me and I doubt this kind of proclamation in a parking lot was clear to her, either. I love lots of my friends and tell them so often; gender and orientation is not relevant to me in that interaction. In addition, not to put too fine a point on the stereotype, serious yoga folk and those who have substantive conversations about energy outside of physics labs are often quite... generous and encompassing with their declarations of emotions. What was a rare and weighty occurrence for you may not be at all the same for her, in other words. Stop freaking out. Grab hold of yourself, man.
posted by DarlingBri at 10:27 AM on May 30, 2012 [26 favorites]
Your love is not a burden. Say it with me - MY LOVE IS NOT A BURDEN.
She reciprocated, which is a good sign. It might not be a romantic love, and you can spend some time figuring that out (first in your own mind, then with her). But, there is no evidence that she finds you even remotely creepy and repugnant. I'd say this is a good thing. at the very worst you have a good friend who has strong feelings for you. Enjoy the gift.
posted by blurker at 10:30 AM on May 30, 2012 [5 favorites]
She reciprocated, which is a good sign. It might not be a romantic love, and you can spend some time figuring that out (first in your own mind, then with her). But, there is no evidence that she finds you even remotely creepy and repugnant. I'd say this is a good thing. at the very worst you have a good friend who has strong feelings for you. Enjoy the gift.
posted by blurker at 10:30 AM on May 30, 2012 [5 favorites]
It's okay. You're okay. You didn't do anything wrong. What you did was something possibly around the edges of what's perfectly socially acceptable, but it's not wrong.
Wrong would be disrespecting her boundaries. Don't do that. Let her set the boundaries for your future interactions -- if she sits somewhere not next to you, just let that happen. If she smiles at you, smile back. Don't chase her, don't corner her, don't force any kind of conversation. But do be friendly. Be present (get out of your head and into the room), know who you are (you are good at a lot of things), and have compassion for others (they, too, are stuck in their head worrying if they have said and done right).
I think you're beating yourself up because you expressed yourself. Maybe expressing yourself has been dangerous for you in the past and you learned well the lessons of not expressing yourself directly. And now you did -- you opened your mouth and despite your best efforts let out something authentic about yourself -- and you're waiting for your punishment.
If you have romantic feelings for her, there are other ways to try to feel out whether she reciprocates, but you didn't go for those ways. You went direct. That's okay. It's okay to everyone else around you. It frankly cuts out a lot of bullshit. The only one it's not okay to is you, and to whoever it was who taught you not to express yourself. But that person's not here, except in your head.
It is entirely possible that the direct route is the best. I am 100% certain that there are dudes out there who are a 5 on a good day but who are married to women who are a perfect 10,* and furthermore that they stood out, in the great game of courtship, by being direct about who they were and what their intentions were. By having the courage to express themselves honestly. If what you want is a romantic relationship with this woman, it's not at all unheard of to get it this way.
If you don't, if for whatever reason you just want to take it back, let it go. Continue to act normally. If she asks, you can say something like "I really value your questions in our group, I think you bring a lot of good ideas to the table, and I just wanted to appreciate you." Then let it go and be your best self. You don't have to get real precise about how you meant it. If she's not into you, and you act normally after that, she will also return to normal. If she is into you, she may start flirting a little to try to sound you out. There's a wealth of info on here about flirting in case you're interested.
tl;dr: you're fine. You did nothing wrong. It is never wrong to love somebody. It's not even wrong to tell them.
* Let's stipulate, for the purposes of this point, some sort of 1-to-10 scale of attractiveness, even though this idea is really problematic in a lot of ways.
posted by gauche at 10:46 AM on May 30, 2012 [3 favorites]
Wrong would be disrespecting her boundaries. Don't do that. Let her set the boundaries for your future interactions -- if she sits somewhere not next to you, just let that happen. If she smiles at you, smile back. Don't chase her, don't corner her, don't force any kind of conversation. But do be friendly. Be present (get out of your head and into the room), know who you are (you are good at a lot of things), and have compassion for others (they, too, are stuck in their head worrying if they have said and done right).
I think you're beating yourself up because you expressed yourself. Maybe expressing yourself has been dangerous for you in the past and you learned well the lessons of not expressing yourself directly. And now you did -- you opened your mouth and despite your best efforts let out something authentic about yourself -- and you're waiting for your punishment.
If you have romantic feelings for her, there are other ways to try to feel out whether she reciprocates, but you didn't go for those ways. You went direct. That's okay. It's okay to everyone else around you. It frankly cuts out a lot of bullshit. The only one it's not okay to is you, and to whoever it was who taught you not to express yourself. But that person's not here, except in your head.
It is entirely possible that the direct route is the best. I am 100% certain that there are dudes out there who are a 5 on a good day but who are married to women who are a perfect 10,* and furthermore that they stood out, in the great game of courtship, by being direct about who they were and what their intentions were. By having the courage to express themselves honestly. If what you want is a romantic relationship with this woman, it's not at all unheard of to get it this way.
If you don't, if for whatever reason you just want to take it back, let it go. Continue to act normally. If she asks, you can say something like "I really value your questions in our group, I think you bring a lot of good ideas to the table, and I just wanted to appreciate you." Then let it go and be your best self. You don't have to get real precise about how you meant it. If she's not into you, and you act normally after that, she will also return to normal. If she is into you, she may start flirting a little to try to sound you out. There's a wealth of info on here about flirting in case you're interested.
tl;dr: you're fine. You did nothing wrong. It is never wrong to love somebody. It's not even wrong to tell them.
* Let's stipulate, for the purposes of this point, some sort of 1-to-10 scale of attractiveness, even though this idea is really problematic in a lot of ways.
posted by gauche at 10:46 AM on May 30, 2012 [3 favorites]
Hold up, Code Monkey!
Okay, here is the scoop, from someone who is probably a lot like you: don't stop talking to her. Don't refer to the love incident, either to apologize or to expand. Just carry on as normal, and invite her on a capital-D date.
Here is how I am picturing you: you're not actually hideous and monstrous and unlovable, you're just a bit awkward and maybe not the next Mr. Universe. You probably don't tell people about your feelings until the feelings get strong and burst out, to the surprise and astonishment of all. (Perhaps this is why your results in the past have been poor - sudden intensity can be startling and alarming, regardless of the person who is sudden and intense. Also, young women have to watch out for guys who get sudden and intense with the declarations of love - sometimes those guys turn out to be stalkers, obsessive, etc.*)
So anyway, ask her out on a date. Make sure she knows it's a date and can decline it on those terms. Think of it this way - if you just amorphously ask her to hang out and she thinks it might be a secret date, she almost has to decline your friendship to decline the hanging out. But if you ask her out on a date, all she has to do is decline the date - she can still feel comfortable hanging out with you because all the cards are on the table.
Also, don't think of your love/attraction/affection as some huge shameful burden you are placing on someone. In general, even if someone doesn't want to go out with you, it's at least a little bit flattering to be the object of a person's interest. Even if that person is awkward or plain or whatever, it is still flattering.
It is a burden to make someone responsible for your feelings/wellbeing, and you shouldn't do that until you have some strong bonds of trust, care and mutuality. That's one reason why we don't generally pop out with "I love you" until those bonds have been formed - love is a big deal, it raises the mutual responsibilities, it opens up whole new ways in which you can accidentally hurt the person who loves you. That's a bit of a burden. But having those feelings - that's not burdening someone. Acting in a loving manner isn't burdening someone (unless you are, say, buying them diamonds in the hopes of bribing them into loving you back).
And while "I love you" is a big deal to drop in someone's lap, "I like you a lot" or "you're a really great person" is not. When in doubt or early in a friendship/relationship, tell someone "I like you a lot" instead, since that conveys much but requires little.
Anyway, who knows whether Tracy wants to go out with you? But it's not the end of the world that you care about her.
Also, every single geeky guy I have ever known progressed through this sort of thing to get to good relationships. Concentrate on being kind, honest and sincere to women and in the rest of your life, and eventually - even if you are odd or plain - a woman you like will perceive those things in you and be attracted to you. I know many code monkeys, so to speak, who have been through this.
*And some of those obsessive stalker guys actually aren't creeps - one of my very best friends ever totally creeped someone out when he was younger because he got hung up on her, biked past her house a lot, was too intense and generally misread a lot of signals. This wasn't because he was a terrible person; it was because he was a kind, affectionate, shy person who had not had time to gain the social skills he needed after a rather difficult childhood. He acted a bit creepy, but he's not a creep and has become much happier, more skilled and more successful in dating.
posted by Frowner at 10:47 AM on May 30, 2012 [12 favorites]
Okay, here is the scoop, from someone who is probably a lot like you: don't stop talking to her. Don't refer to the love incident, either to apologize or to expand. Just carry on as normal, and invite her on a capital-D date.
Here is how I am picturing you: you're not actually hideous and monstrous and unlovable, you're just a bit awkward and maybe not the next Mr. Universe. You probably don't tell people about your feelings until the feelings get strong and burst out, to the surprise and astonishment of all. (Perhaps this is why your results in the past have been poor - sudden intensity can be startling and alarming, regardless of the person who is sudden and intense. Also, young women have to watch out for guys who get sudden and intense with the declarations of love - sometimes those guys turn out to be stalkers, obsessive, etc.*)
So anyway, ask her out on a date. Make sure she knows it's a date and can decline it on those terms. Think of it this way - if you just amorphously ask her to hang out and she thinks it might be a secret date, she almost has to decline your friendship to decline the hanging out. But if you ask her out on a date, all she has to do is decline the date - she can still feel comfortable hanging out with you because all the cards are on the table.
Also, don't think of your love/attraction/affection as some huge shameful burden you are placing on someone. In general, even if someone doesn't want to go out with you, it's at least a little bit flattering to be the object of a person's interest. Even if that person is awkward or plain or whatever, it is still flattering.
It is a burden to make someone responsible for your feelings/wellbeing, and you shouldn't do that until you have some strong bonds of trust, care and mutuality. That's one reason why we don't generally pop out with "I love you" until those bonds have been formed - love is a big deal, it raises the mutual responsibilities, it opens up whole new ways in which you can accidentally hurt the person who loves you. That's a bit of a burden. But having those feelings - that's not burdening someone. Acting in a loving manner isn't burdening someone (unless you are, say, buying them diamonds in the hopes of bribing them into loving you back).
And while "I love you" is a big deal to drop in someone's lap, "I like you a lot" or "you're a really great person" is not. When in doubt or early in a friendship/relationship, tell someone "I like you a lot" instead, since that conveys much but requires little.
Anyway, who knows whether Tracy wants to go out with you? But it's not the end of the world that you care about her.
Also, every single geeky guy I have ever known progressed through this sort of thing to get to good relationships. Concentrate on being kind, honest and sincere to women and in the rest of your life, and eventually - even if you are odd or plain - a woman you like will perceive those things in you and be attracted to you. I know many code monkeys, so to speak, who have been through this.
*And some of those obsessive stalker guys actually aren't creeps - one of my very best friends ever totally creeped someone out when he was younger because he got hung up on her, biked past her house a lot, was too intense and generally misread a lot of signals. This wasn't because he was a terrible person; it was because he was a kind, affectionate, shy person who had not had time to gain the social skills he needed after a rather difficult childhood. He acted a bit creepy, but he's not a creep and has become much happier, more skilled and more successful in dating.
posted by Frowner at 10:47 AM on May 30, 2012 [12 favorites]
The stuff you want to say would be considerably more of a burden, as you put it, than three words.
This is similar to my reaction. This is not necessarily a big weird deal but you are proposing to make it a big weird deal.
Instead of trying to guess at how to best nullify an honest if perhaps sudden and (to you obviously) mortifying moment would you consider just being honest and forthright? You could contact her and simply talk about the fact that your saying "I love you" has been making you feel anxious, how you are afraid it will ruin your friendship or change things for the worse. And see how she responds.
In my experience when there is an issue of unrequited love (which I'm not certain this is - neither that romantic love was your impetus nor that it would necessarily be unrequited - but going on the assumption) in the context of a genuine friendship, the individual who is not interested in a romantic relationship is usually very willing to go along with making everything "go back to the way it was" to the greatest extent possible. If this is the situation you're in, and you can deal with it (and it is a thing that can be dealt with, in many cases) then simply backing off and letting the status quo proceed will probably be sufficient.
You didn't do anything wrong. You did do something that is bound to change your relationship to at least some degree. I do no think it likely she would have reciprocated the statement if she was not at the least a real friend to you and someone who thought you had value. An emotionally mature relationship is one where you can be honest while respecting the boundaries that others express. Falling on your sword is not necessary. Be honest but let her take the lead in setting the boundaries in the next phase of your relationship. And for goodness sake recognize and think about what you might constructively do about how terribly harsh you are towards yourself.
posted by nanojath at 11:00 AM on May 30, 2012 [2 favorites]
This is similar to my reaction. This is not necessarily a big weird deal but you are proposing to make it a big weird deal.
Instead of trying to guess at how to best nullify an honest if perhaps sudden and (to you obviously) mortifying moment would you consider just being honest and forthright? You could contact her and simply talk about the fact that your saying "I love you" has been making you feel anxious, how you are afraid it will ruin your friendship or change things for the worse. And see how she responds.
In my experience when there is an issue of unrequited love (which I'm not certain this is - neither that romantic love was your impetus nor that it would necessarily be unrequited - but going on the assumption) in the context of a genuine friendship, the individual who is not interested in a romantic relationship is usually very willing to go along with making everything "go back to the way it was" to the greatest extent possible. If this is the situation you're in, and you can deal with it (and it is a thing that can be dealt with, in many cases) then simply backing off and letting the status quo proceed will probably be sufficient.
You didn't do anything wrong. You did do something that is bound to change your relationship to at least some degree. I do no think it likely she would have reciprocated the statement if she was not at the least a real friend to you and someone who thought you had value. An emotionally mature relationship is one where you can be honest while respecting the boundaries that others express. Falling on your sword is not necessary. Be honest but let her take the lead in setting the boundaries in the next phase of your relationship. And for goodness sake recognize and think about what you might constructively do about how terribly harsh you are towards yourself.
posted by nanojath at 11:00 AM on May 30, 2012 [2 favorites]
If you truly don't want to try for a romantic relationship with her, you can easily spin this particular "I love you!" as an exuberant expression of joy after a wonderful/insightful evening with your friend.
As for the pregnant pause, if she was in love with you, would she have paused? Yes, to still her beating heart. If she felt friendship for you, would she have paused? Yes, to figure out if responding in kind might be misunderstood for romantic love. If she was embarrassed by it, would she have paused? Perhaps, but surely would have followed it with a "Thank you" or "You're wonderful" not "I love you too".
What I'm getting at is that there is no loss of face in this situation for either of you. Enjoy the moment, or push it to the next level if you're so inclined, but don't regret it.
posted by Dragonness at 11:03 AM on May 30, 2012 [4 favorites]
As for the pregnant pause, if she was in love with you, would she have paused? Yes, to still her beating heart. If she felt friendship for you, would she have paused? Yes, to figure out if responding in kind might be misunderstood for romantic love. If she was embarrassed by it, would she have paused? Perhaps, but surely would have followed it with a "Thank you" or "You're wonderful" not "I love you too".
What I'm getting at is that there is no loss of face in this situation for either of you. Enjoy the moment, or push it to the next level if you're so inclined, but don't regret it.
posted by Dragonness at 11:03 AM on May 30, 2012 [4 favorites]
What everyone else has said: you did not make a horrible mistake, you haven't ruined your friendship, and do not apologize or explain further. Frankly, the big explanation and any berating of yourself (internal or external), would be the big mistakes that could negatively alter the friendship. Honestly, I tell my friends I love them all the time. I realize that's probably not your modus operandi, but it isn't that unusual, especially when someone has been particularly awesome or supportive.
She responded positively, and you said later her friend Don was "feeling you out." The only time I would have a friend feel someone out with such a leading comment is if I was interested in him. I would take this as an encouraging sign. There are a lot of other things Don could have said to squash this whole thing or make it clear she did not like you in that way. Of course, he could be acting of his own volition. It's impossible to say whether she has romantic or platonic friendship feelings for you until you explore it further. I think asking her if she wants to go out on a date, and possibly prefacing it by saying the friendship means a lot to you is the right next step. Good luck! Also, what might feel bumbling and awkward to you, may very well be adorable and endearing to others. Stop being so mean to yourself. I'm sure you are not the ugly, creepy guy that you envision yourself to be. I know that's easier said than done, but start by focusing on your positives and acknowledging that your negatives are either entirely in your head or greatly exaggerated in your own mind.
posted by katemcd at 11:09 AM on May 30, 2012 [1 favorite]
She responded positively, and you said later her friend Don was "feeling you out." The only time I would have a friend feel someone out with such a leading comment is if I was interested in him. I would take this as an encouraging sign. There are a lot of other things Don could have said to squash this whole thing or make it clear she did not like you in that way. Of course, he could be acting of his own volition. It's impossible to say whether she has romantic or platonic friendship feelings for you until you explore it further. I think asking her if she wants to go out on a date, and possibly prefacing it by saying the friendship means a lot to you is the right next step. Good luck! Also, what might feel bumbling and awkward to you, may very well be adorable and endearing to others. Stop being so mean to yourself. I'm sure you are not the ugly, creepy guy that you envision yourself to be. I know that's easier said than done, but start by focusing on your positives and acknowledging that your negatives are either entirely in your head or greatly exaggerated in your own mind.
posted by katemcd at 11:09 AM on May 30, 2012 [1 favorite]
She said she loves you too. A mutual friend, who knows what you said, was feeling you out and asked, in a leading way, if you think she's cute. Every sign has been positive. So your response to these positive signs is...to decide to write an apologetic note and ask us if that's going far enough?
I feel like there's something I'm not getting here. If possible can you please clarify a little? Specifically: Is Tracy someone you want to date? Would it make you happy to go on a date with Tracy?
In an ideal world, what do you want from Tracy?
And are you in therapy at the moment?
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 11:20 AM on May 30, 2012 [4 favorites]
I feel like there's something I'm not getting here. If possible can you please clarify a little? Specifically: Is Tracy someone you want to date? Would it make you happy to go on a date with Tracy?
In an ideal world, what do you want from Tracy?
And are you in therapy at the moment?
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 11:20 AM on May 30, 2012 [4 favorites]
I'm a woman and I'm friends with about a dozen guys who've professed love (or lust) that I wasn't interested in reciprocating. It's no biggie however it ends up as long as you don't make it some Big Dramatic Thing. All of your proposed actions are Big Dramatic Things so first step us to dial it back on the crazy thinking and offers to jump under buses and remember that you and she? are two different people. You are perfectly within your rights to your feelings and to tell her you love her and to hope for more. All of that is A-OK. But acting like you know her mind, making assumptions about it, or trying to anticipate and manage her reaction is a recipe for crazy making. Just let it ride and if she tells you she only loves you as a friend don't offer her a smorgasboard of punishments you can inflict on yourself. Be cool, say "bummer, I had to ask, hope you aren't uncomfortable" then get out of her mental space.
posted by fshgrl at 11:23 AM on May 30, 2012 [8 favorites]
posted by fshgrl at 11:23 AM on May 30, 2012 [8 favorites]
I don't know what kind of self-help meeting you attend together, but in my experience, "I love you" in self-help contexts does not necessarily convey romantic intentions (which is maybe why she said "I love you too!"). I think you're fine. Again, I don't know what kind of self-help group this is, but is there any way that bringing it up your awkwardness about it with the group might be appropriate?
posted by Wordwoman at 11:26 AM on May 30, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Wordwoman at 11:26 AM on May 30, 2012 [2 favorites]
Life is too short for you to reject yourself. What is the worst Tracy could say? Or if you prefer, looking back 10 years from now, wouldn't you like to know how she really felt instead of wondering?
posted by Silvertree at 11:52 AM on May 30, 2012
posted by Silvertree at 11:52 AM on May 30, 2012
What reaction would have made you happy? Ripping her clothes off and throwing herself at you right there in the parking lot?
Don't overanalyze. This is not what rejection looks like.
posted by chundo at 11:55 AM on May 30, 2012 [5 favorites]
Don't overanalyze. This is not what rejection looks like.
posted by chundo at 11:55 AM on May 30, 2012 [5 favorites]
Agree with what everyone else said.
Tracy is a big girl, and she is more than capable of rejecting you if she wants to. Don't preemptively reject yourself on her supposed behalf!
Don't explain unless she asks for an explanation, and even then, be honest. What do you want, really?
posted by J. Wilson at 12:04 PM on May 30, 2012 [1 favorite]
Tracy is a big girl, and she is more than capable of rejecting you if she wants to. Don't preemptively reject yourself on her supposed behalf!
Don't explain unless she asks for an explanation, and even then, be honest. What do you want, really?
posted by J. Wilson at 12:04 PM on May 30, 2012 [1 favorite]
Ask her out. Don't make reference to the "I love you."
If she asks for an explanation, just say "It just came out."
posted by Ironmouth at 12:16 PM on May 30, 2012
If she asks for an explanation, just say "It just came out."
posted by Ironmouth at 12:16 PM on May 30, 2012
This is NOT "a terrible mistake." I'm happily married for almost 30 years. I have a few very close guy friends. I tell them I love them at appropriate times and they say it back to me. We are grown ups, in loving platonic relationships. This is what we do. Obviously, you and Tracey do the same.
posted by raisingsand at 12:22 PM on May 30, 2012
posted by raisingsand at 12:22 PM on May 30, 2012
So much of life fails to happen because of our fears. Ask yourself what do you really want? Then ask yourself what do you fear? Do you want to go out with her, get closer? Do you fear rejection by her, by your friend, perhaps embarrassment if it turns out that you have more feelings for her than she does for you? None of those negatives are really that bad, but dating her might really be quite enjoyable. So you told her you love her and she responded in kind - great. Now ask her out for coffee or something sometime when your other friend is not around. Whatever happens enjoy yourself.
posted by caddis at 1:44 PM on May 30, 2012
posted by caddis at 1:44 PM on May 30, 2012
Very briefly, I don't think it's ever a mistake to tell someone you love them if that's the truth. Okay, maybe if you're a teacher crushing on a student or something but in general, I think we should err on the side of telling our loved ones how we feel more often.
posted by kat518 at 4:01 PM on May 30, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by kat518 at 4:01 PM on May 30, 2012 [1 favorite]
There is a fight going on inside you. It is a terrible fight and it is between two penguins, socially awesome penguin and socially awkward penguin.
"Which penguin will win?"
The one you feed.
posted by Skwirl at 4:35 PM on May 30, 2012 [7 favorites]
"Which penguin will win?"
The one you feed.
posted by Skwirl at 4:35 PM on May 30, 2012 [7 favorites]
Calm down and just go with the flow. Don't waste energy and time being nervous before you've even asked her out!
posted by lotusmish at 12:30 PM on May 31, 2012
posted by lotusmish at 12:30 PM on May 31, 2012
Response by poster: Thanks everyone. What I get from this is:
1) Don't freak out. I didn't do anything wrong and things, at worse, are likely to stay the same.
2) Act as I always have.
3) If it is a problem, she will bring it up. Deal with it then
Ans to questions:
Not in therapy.
Yes, I'd like to date Tracy. She has a b/f now but they are having problems b/c she, well, has issues like me and I think its tough for 'normals' to understand.
Is she interested in me? Well, if I lose 10 years and 100 lbs...maybe. I'm 46 btw.
Is Don interested as well? Maybe. One time he told me he got involved with someone from the meeting but he had to leave for a while when they broke up.
Ripping her clothes off and throwing herself at you right there in the parking lot...that would be fine.
Bring it up at the meeting? Well, I am chairing at the end of June so I could introduce the topic of strong emotions and my story of not being allowed to have them.
What do I fear? That either Tracy or I will have to leave the meeting because of what I said. We both really like this meeting and both get a lot out of it...and from each other.
posted by CodeMonkey at 11:31 AM on June 1, 2012
1) Don't freak out. I didn't do anything wrong and things, at worse, are likely to stay the same.
2) Act as I always have.
3) If it is a problem, she will bring it up. Deal with it then
Ans to questions:
Not in therapy.
Yes, I'd like to date Tracy. She has a b/f now but they are having problems b/c she, well, has issues like me and I think its tough for 'normals' to understand.
Is she interested in me? Well, if I lose 10 years and 100 lbs...maybe. I'm 46 btw.
Is Don interested as well? Maybe. One time he told me he got involved with someone from the meeting but he had to leave for a while when they broke up.
Ripping her clothes off and throwing herself at you right there in the parking lot...that would be fine.
Bring it up at the meeting? Well, I am chairing at the end of June so I could introduce the topic of strong emotions and my story of not being allowed to have them.
What do I fear? That either Tracy or I will have to leave the meeting because of what I said. We both really like this meeting and both get a lot out of it...and from each other.
posted by CodeMonkey at 11:31 AM on June 1, 2012
Not in therapy.
Therapy is a step you should consider taking.
Yes, I'd like to date Tracy. She has a b/f now but they are having problems b/c she, well, has issues like me and I think its tough for 'normals' to understand.
Don't take any steps in terms of dating Tracy unless and until she and her boyfriend are broken up.
Is she interested in me? Well, if I lose 10 years and 100 lbs...maybe. I'm 46 btw.
Let Tracy be the one to decide whether or not you are attractive to her.
Bring it up at the meeting? Well, I am chairing at the end of June so I could introduce the topic of strong emotions and my story of not being allowed to have them.
Holy good God in beautiful downtown Heaven, do not do this. This is a private matter between you and Tracy and it is really seriously not the big deal you're making it out to be, unless there's a lot of information you're leaving out. The worst thing you could do would be to paint this as somehow being a story of you not being allowed to have strong emotions (this is not what is happening here, again unless there's a lot of info you're leaving out), especially in front of her and everyone else in your group. Don't make this the group's problem - especially because it doesn't appear to be an actual problem in any practical terms.
What do I fear? That either Tracy or I will have to leave the meeting because of what I said.
Okay, this is maybe the information we're missing here: Why would either of you have to leave the meeting? Her response was kind at the very least, so the worst-case scenario here is you have a slightly awkward memory of a time you blurted something out and she wasn't really bothered by it. It really doesn't warrant the scorched-earth response you're trying to have to it. Is there something else going on here?
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 9:09 AM on June 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
Therapy is a step you should consider taking.
Yes, I'd like to date Tracy. She has a b/f now but they are having problems b/c she, well, has issues like me and I think its tough for 'normals' to understand.
Don't take any steps in terms of dating Tracy unless and until she and her boyfriend are broken up.
Is she interested in me? Well, if I lose 10 years and 100 lbs...maybe. I'm 46 btw.
Let Tracy be the one to decide whether or not you are attractive to her.
Bring it up at the meeting? Well, I am chairing at the end of June so I could introduce the topic of strong emotions and my story of not being allowed to have them.
Holy good God in beautiful downtown Heaven, do not do this. This is a private matter between you and Tracy and it is really seriously not the big deal you're making it out to be, unless there's a lot of information you're leaving out. The worst thing you could do would be to paint this as somehow being a story of you not being allowed to have strong emotions (this is not what is happening here, again unless there's a lot of info you're leaving out), especially in front of her and everyone else in your group. Don't make this the group's problem - especially because it doesn't appear to be an actual problem in any practical terms.
What do I fear? That either Tracy or I will have to leave the meeting because of what I said.
Okay, this is maybe the information we're missing here: Why would either of you have to leave the meeting? Her response was kind at the very least, so the worst-case scenario here is you have a slightly awkward memory of a time you blurted something out and she wasn't really bothered by it. It really doesn't warrant the scorched-earth response you're trying to have to it. Is there something else going on here?
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 9:09 AM on June 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
It sounds like you're envisioning a fantasy scenario where Tracy sees that you are so distraught over what you've done because you are so scared of losing her over it, and she will be overcome with emotion and affection toward you and you'll both have this weepy reunion and admit to your feelings for each other and then you'll live happily ever after as soulmates.
THIS IS NOT HOW LIFE WORKS.
People like to be with people they have fun with. For pete's sake, don't inject drama as the first act in a potential relationship. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but you need to focus on just enjoying your personal connections instead of injecting nuclear-scale emotion into them and then believing that when it backfires that it means you are "not allowed to have strong emotions."
Relationships take patience and forcing things early will always turn out badly. ALWAYS. Learn to enjoy people at whatever level of emotional connection you currently have. If you're a match, that connection will grow naturally, but nothing you can do will make it happen as fast you you want it to, it will only kill it.
Learn patience.
posted by chundo at 12:37 PM on June 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
THIS IS NOT HOW LIFE WORKS.
People like to be with people they have fun with. For pete's sake, don't inject drama as the first act in a potential relationship. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but you need to focus on just enjoying your personal connections instead of injecting nuclear-scale emotion into them and then believing that when it backfires that it means you are "not allowed to have strong emotions."
Relationships take patience and forcing things early will always turn out badly. ALWAYS. Learn to enjoy people at whatever level of emotional connection you currently have. If you're a match, that connection will grow naturally, but nothing you can do will make it happen as fast you you want it to, it will only kill it.
Learn patience.
posted by chundo at 12:37 PM on June 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
That thing about you being ugly and creepy is only in your head. You need to cut that shit out.
Try to find a time when Don isn't around and say "Hey, Tracy, want to go grab a cup of coffee sometime?" At the very least you'll have a cup of coffee with your friend.
Good luck.
*Assuming neither of you are married or otherwise attached, I mean. You didn't really make that clear.
posted by bondcliff at 10:23 AM on May 30, 2012 [24 favorites]