I think I'd be a great dog person. Am I nuts?
April 21, 2012 10:26 PM   Subscribe

Very soon, after many years of waiting for the "right" time, I think I will FINALLY be in a situation where I can be a good dog owner and provide a pooch with a wonderful home. Help me make sure I'm not deluding myself.

I've wanted a dog for as long as I can remember, but have never had one. We didn't have pets as kids (much to my eternal dismay), and as an adult I have always lived in itty-bitty apartments and/or had an incredibly unpredictable and hectic schedule which was in no way conducive to caring for another living being. Though in recent years my lifestyle has settled enough that I've been able to provide a good home for this guy, I still am not quite in a situation I feel comfortable bringing a more labour-intensive pet into. I have therefore had to content myself with being the surrogate Momma of my brother's pup Jasper, and my bff's (awesome) poochie, Mitchell (previously mentioned and pictured in this AskMe here). Having doggy-sat for both these guys on several occasions and for up to a month at a time, I feel pretty confident that I know the day-to-day nitty gritty of being a dog owner. I will soon be moving to a new place, and into a new lifestyle that I think will be much more dog friendly, and I'm hoping that I will finally be ready to get my very own canine bff. However, since I am notoriously neurotic (and insecure about my lack of a childhood pup), I feel like I need some external validation of my suitability as a Dog Person.
Here is the outline of Dorinda's Grand Plan to Acquire the Perfect Dog. Please comment on its feasibility, and any glaring holes/misconceptions you see. Also, breed recommendations are always welcome (though I'm most likely going to be getting a Random Rescue mix), and I give you full permission to litter the comments with photos of your dog.
I am moving to a new city for grad school in the fall, and my broad timeline involves getting the dog during the Fall or Winter school break. By that time, I assume I will be more clear about what my daily routine is, be settled into my new living situation (and have my cat settled as well), and have a number of days off in a row in order to ease the transition process. If this is NOT the case, then I will wait until it is...
With that in mind as a general framework:
Step 1: Find a dog friendly living situation, where "dog-friendly"= fenced back yard, and a minimum of ??? sq. feet of living space (please help me fill in this blank!)
Step 2: Volunteer weekly (or more!) at a local rescue or shelter, getting to know the dogs (and employees) there, and getting a better idea of what sort of puppy personality I am suited for.
Step 3: Fall in love with a dog. I'm partial to medium-large dogs, and am very active and looking for a pup who likes long walks/runs/hikes, and am leaning towards adopting a young-ish pooch (ideally, 1-2 years old)...but am honestly open to falling in love with a dog of any age.
Step 4: Adopt!
Step 5: Gradually introduce new pup (tentative name: Astrophil) to Stephen Dedalus (my kitty). Watch as they become bosom pals.
Step 5.5: Enroll in obedience classes. Excel there. ;)
Step 6: My imaginary doggie day will look like this: Wake up @ 7ish and bring pup on my morning run. Give dog breakfast. Go to school. Come home lunchtime/mid-afternoon-ish. Let pup out for pee break/quick walk. Go back to school. Come home early evening. Take dog out to dog park for social/playtime and evening walk. Give pup dinner. Cuddle excessively with dog. Go to bed. Repeat. (I know that slight schedule variations are inevitable....especially in grad school....but I do have the freedom to be doing a lot of work/reading/writing at home, and I will be living close enough to campus that I can nip home during breaks. I will occasionally be out evenings, but this is a routine that I am fairly confident will be feasible for me. If, when I arrive in my new life, it turns out it is NOT, I will do the responsible thing and NOT get a dog until I can provide this as a minimum....) Is this an OK doggy day? Would I be a horrible dog owner for leaving him at home while I'm at school? I'm planing on crate training....is this a good idea?
Step 7: I plan to put aside $25-50/month into an Emergency Pet Fund account/jar under my bed, and I plan to invest in pet insurance. I know that, sadly, unexpected vet costs are bound to pop up eventually. I want to plan ahead for this inevitability, since I'm not wealthy.
Step 8: As a renter, I recognize that my pooch will make apartment/house hunting less easy, should I desire/need a move in the coming years (pretty much inevitable in my situation). I'm aware of this, and prepared for the added challenege.
Step 9: I know that taking on the care and love of an animal is a commitment for their entire lifetime, and I plan to love my boy for as long as I am blessed to have him. This is not a frivolous whim.

So, hive mind, what am I failing to consider? How can I better prepare myself to be an awesome doggie mama? Is the plan outlined above a reasonable one, or should I wait until I'm more "settled"? (Though, to be honest, I have a hard time believing I'll ever be in a more settled position than being tied to a PhD program.......)
In short, what makes the best dog owners?
Thanks, dawgs.
posted by Dorinda to Pets & Animals (16 answers total) 3 users marked this as a favorite
 
Best answer: For Step 1, just know that people raise very happy dogs in very urban environments all of the time. I know a Doberman who lived in a studio apartment. I have a boxer who won't go into our back yard, at all, ever. Your standards are whatever your standard will be, but there is no one set standard you must achieve except "dogs allowed."

I also suspect Steps 2 and 3 may be hugely abbreviated. By all means, go and visit dogs; go as often as you like. But please do not make a voluntary commitment to a shelter when you are likely to withdraw when you get your own dog.

For #5, your guess is as good as mine. "Indifference" is a good goal.

While you previously said you are open to falling in love with "any dog," #6 indicates this is not the case because it relies on a dog who is both housebroken and not a barker or a brayer. This makes, say, a coon hound a bad match for you. You need a dog who is suitable for your lifestyle and your new skillset. (This is an individual dog thing, btw, not a breed matching exercise.)

Finally, you have not addressed what the dog will be doing while you are not at home. "Loose in the house" is a really bad plan with an unknown dog, so your choices are yard or crate or babygated in the kitchen. These represent very different styles of dog parenting ethos and are about as divisive as cloth vs disposable diapers.

Overall, you have addressed the practical, none of which answers your question: would you be a great dog person? The number 1 mistake I see new dog owners make is being overly permissive because they so want the dog to like them. There is virtually no chance the dog won't like you, and the best time to lay down boundaries and routines is from the very start. The dog will be eager to please and you would be well advised to take advantage of that by being clear about what is pleasing and what is not.

I dote on my special needs dog, and she loves me like a religion. But she has perfect recall, walks on a lead exactly the way I want her to, and is 100% reliable because that's how we grew her. A well-behaved and polite animal makes dog owning a massive pleasure and avoids the "Dear Ask, My dog is ruining my life, I'm about to be kickied out of my house, how do I fix this after two years? Love, Indulgent" questions we see.
posted by DarlingBri at 11:10 PM on April 21, 2012 [6 favorites]


Your plan sounds very well thought-out, and you sound like you'll be a great dog owner! My only suggestion is that you wait a semester in grad school, or at least a good portion of that first semester, to get a feel for what your school schedule looks like. I mention it because grad school can turn into a crazy time- and energy-suck, and you should know how you handle it before tacking on an additional responsibility into that mix. The current problem I'm struggling with, for example, is that my dogs make it difficult to work from home -- they're just so cute, and they always want to play, and so they're the perfect tool for procrastination. I'm more productive at the library, but I can't stay there for hours and hours on end because I need to get home to my dogs. Cats are far more low-maintenance in that regard, and a new dog, especially a puppy, will restrict your schedule a lot more; this might not be a problem for you, but you should know how you adjust to your grad school responsibilities before taking on another.

On the other hand, your daily schedule and ability to be at home will almost certainly never be better. One of my dogs has had some chronic health issues lately, and the ability to schedule a vet visit at almost any time has been a godsend. It'll help a lot with training, too, since you'll be around more for reinforcement.
posted by lilac girl at 11:12 PM on April 21, 2012


Check out CareCredit if you run up against any scary vet bills. My pup had a gastrointestinal issue a year or so back, had to be hospitalized and have surgery, and we would not have been able to afford the $1000 vet bill without it. They usually have no-interest promo periods proportional to the size of the expense, and we managed not to have to pay any interest. Plus, it'll help you grow your credit score as a young adult.
posted by Night_owl at 11:24 PM on April 21, 2012 [1 favorite]


I don't have any pets, but I have dog sat several times. This makes me think of vacations or trips away. You will need a kennel or a dog sitter. Ideally you should have someone lined up in case of an emergency.

And your cat- does he or she adjust well to new situations/dogs already?
posted by Monday at 1:32 AM on April 22, 2012


Best answer: I think you sound like you'd be a good dog owner. Here are a couple of things to think about though: you might think about a solidly medium-sized dog rather than a large dog. I think it's easier to make sure a 40 lb mutt gets enough exercise than, say, a 70 lb Boxer, especially if you're going to be gone a lot during the day.

Secondly, I think it might be a better idea to talk to the local shelter people and tell them that you want to adopt a dog. I imagine that they'll be open to you coming by and hanging out with the dogs until you get a good feel for which one you'd like, and that way when you disappear after having made a decision, it won't be flaking on a volunteer commitment.

Thirdly, think about what you're going to do if/when things don't go to plan: what are you going to do if your cat and dog don't get along? if your dog doesn't excel in obedience classes? Also, have you thought about what you're going to do with your dog on holidays, winter vacations, and research trips?

In terms of schedule, in my family, leaving our (small) dog home alone for about 4 hours was pretty normal. 6 hours was possible but stretching it. In order to facilitate nipping home to let the dog out for a minute, I think it'd be helpful to have an apartment close to school, and I think that would probably be more important than the actual square footage of your place.
posted by colfax at 2:38 AM on April 22, 2012


You have a very thoughtful approach, and you're going to be fine. Here are some things you may not have thought of:

- Routine healthcare costs that aren't emergencies: flea & tick control (every month year-round on most of the US east coast, where I am) can cost about $130 every six months for an 80lb dog. Checkups, vaccinations (required by kennels and some membership-only dog parks), bloodwork/x-rays if the dog is ill but not deathly so--all these costs are not emergencies that you should build into your pet budget. Or at least be aware of and plan to pay for. Bloodwork in particular is something that can surprise you with its cost, and not something you can skimp on if, say, the dog has had diarrhea that you're seeking to know the cause of.

- Supply costs: Beds, crates, collars, brushes, food, treats, leashes, toys.

- What if the dog has behavioral problems you can't anticipate? As they mature, dogs often (depending on breed and history and brain chemistry) change personality. The pliant puppy sometimes becomes overly dominant or territorial or barky after he passes through adolescence. Obedience class helps in that a trainer would be there, but group classes may not be enough. You might need to hire a private trainer and/or adjust your lifestyle/schedule to deal with any issues that crop up. Getting a dog is a commitment for his lifetime--and you should be aware that it's pretty rare to get a "perfect" dog.

- Agree with thinking ahead on where your dog will stay when you're out of town. Kennel, friend, family? You also might think about a dog walker or friend to trade care duties with for those likely inevitable days when you can't get home for a 14-hour stretch.

- Start reading dog training books now. They'll give you a leg up on what to expect. I like Patricia McConnell.

Good luck!
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 5:03 AM on April 22, 2012


Rather than signing up to volunteer (which can end up being as big a time-suck as grad school!), print out your plan and bring it to a rescue and have them help you find a match. Just remember that, in a way, SOME rescue folks are like well-intentioned used car salespeople: they want so much to close the deal/get this dog a home, that they might gloss over minor details, like the dog has a history of eating the drapes or chasing cats...

Check if your university has a vet school! Vet schools often offer cheaper services.
posted by SuperSquirrel at 5:49 AM on April 22, 2012


I'll tell you what makes the biggest difference in owning a dog... Your ability to be the alpha dog in the relationship and set boundaries with your animal. If you watch a bunch of dog whisperer episodes, the story is always similar... It's the owners who need to change their behaviors to make their nightmare pet stop being a nightmare, its rare that a dog is "bad."

When i got my little dog, she had been on the streets for two months and was NOT about to listen to anyone. She was a little monster for three straight months. I had wanted a dog SO MUCH and I ended up crying on the phone to my mom, wailing "why the hell did I get a dog! What did I doooo!??" I mean, this little animal opened and jumped out a car window in traffic, got loose and ran away three times, peed on my couch, she even tried to climb out a second story window. At one point she got out and I was trying to catch her and watched in horror as she was almost flattened by a UPS truck. It was at that point that I decided her world was going to get very small and strict until she was fully trained, because otherwise she was going to die and I wouldn't have her much longer. It was a nightmare and I just couldn't continue that way.

So, I watched every Dog Whisperer episode, I took her to FIVE rounds of various obedience, and now this pup is the happiest and most social little creature you could ever imagine. I take her almost everywhere and she's a regular welcomed guest in my friends homes and clients offices... People actually complain if I don't bring her. Because I set up a clear relationship with my dog where she's under voice command and knows I am the leader, she is just SOOOO much happier. Sure, she still tests it like a kid but it's almost like she knows it's not going to fly. She is just happy and grateful that she's being taken care of and is an awesome companion.

Well trained dogs cause VERY little stress. Meanwhile, I try to tell this to my next door neighbor whose lab is out of control... But she thinks training her dog means that she has to be mean to it and she just wants to love it.

My feeling is this: by training a dog, you ARE loving it.

The other thing I'd say is that you should really be clear about what kind of dog you want... All breeds have different quirks, temperaments, habits, and exercise needs. More often than not when a dog is a nightmare its because it's bored and need exercise... And some dogs need a lot more than others. It's always good to give a young dog more exercise than it needs... A tired dog is a good dog. My dog doesn't need too much exercise if I'm around a lot... But if I'm gone and leaving her at home she gets bored and so I usually make sure she gets a workout before I leave her alone. If she's sleeping while I'm gone, everybody's happy.

Dogs are awesome, but they are a serious commitment. If you are willing to make the commitment to them, they give back a lot more to you than they take, though. ;)
posted by miss lynnster at 8:01 AM on April 22, 2012


Best answer: Looking at your list and how much thought you have put into it I am going to let you know you put way more thought into getting your dog than most people I know that are great dog owners and have mostly just winged it completely, so you will be an awesome dog parent.

My suggestions to your list would be.

You don't have to volunteer at the shelter, if you know a good shelter they won't mind you coming to hang out and getting to know the dogs. A good shelter would rather you find a dog that's a good match and a lot of dogs in kennels need some socialisation and play time so don't mind if you come and walk the dogs a few times without becoming a full time volunteer.

Your dog might have a few behaviour problems from changing homes and being in a shelter so be aware, you seem to have that covered by having dog classes on your list. Dog classes are great fun and besides basic obedience if you love doing things with your dog agility is a blast.

I would suggest a medium sized dog just for ease of apartment hunting and energy requirements if you are going to be busy the first few years while they are younger. If you are planning on getting a big dog and going running for the first year or 2 of their life can be a problem as they are growing so and joints etc are forming and too much running can lead to problems, so if you get a rescue that has finished growing if you want to run with a big dog.

Honestly your life sounds great for a dog. As someone mentioned you may have to crate or not when you leave the dog alone a lot depends on the dog. I don't and didn't know anyone that did for the first 40 years of my life and they never had any dog problems because of it. It is a popular technique in the US and might be something you want to think about if your dog has behaviour problems or problems with toilet training when it first comes to your house (a common problem for shelter dogs). I have one dog that fears and hates crates so has never been crated here, and one that loves them so much had to train him out of them and into a dog bed as the crate took up the whole room, so I suggest playing that by ear.

Start a small savings account for vet emergancies might be an idea. We have one dog that has cost as about a grand a year with weird disorders and a tendancy run through anything to get to something when he's focused, our other dog has only cost us for his yearly shots. Remember to budget for dog food, treats, vets, toys (and you will buy way too many toys) etc. Dogs don't have to be super expensive to keep, but if they are your fur babies it's nice to be able to buy them treats.
posted by wwax at 8:08 AM on April 22, 2012


Best answer: I would put less emphasis on having the perfect home environment. One misconception you may have is that dogs will get any sort of meaningful, positive exercise in a larger house/apartment or a house with a yard, without your direct involvement. Most dogs will just sleep while you're away, and follow you around when you're home. I live in an area where most homes don't have fenced yards, and most dogs are exercised on leash--I personally think it's all-around healthier for dogs to live in a home without a yard/fenced yard and get twice-daily exercise through walks, dog parks, etc. than to live in a big house with a big fenced yard where exercise and pottying consists of nothing more than shoving the dog out the patio door whenever it whines to be let out.

The only caveat there is that I've heard that some shelters/rescue organizations won't adopt dogs out to homes without a fenced yard. But I think that's the exception rather than the rule.

An active, energetic dog can be a good match for an active lifestyle, but there's an overlap there between active dogs and highly intelligent dogs, and such dogs are often not the best choice for a first-time dog owner/single person who needs to be away from home for much of the day.

Larger dogs have shorter lifespans and are more prone to hip displasia, both of which limit the number of years that your dog will be able to be your active companion for more demanding things like running and hiking. I would suggest that for a truly active lifestyle, dogs on the medium end of medium-large are probably your best bet. And medium-small dogs can make great outdoor partners as well--I'm admittedly a slow turtle of a runner, but I used to run with my beagles and they were great, and I know lots of people who run with shelties and such. A medium/medium-small dog will also give you added flexibility in terms of your housing search.

Crate training is great, although not all dogs need to be crated while you're away. My first dog had no problem being left to have the run of the apartment when I was gone, my second dog did have some separation anxiety and did better in a crate, and my current dog is somewhere in-between, and does best when confined to a room where there is no trash can to root through or chapstick to be found and eaten :-)

Finally, just a small thing, but your morning plan should be feed dog, then run. The usual sequence for most dogs is to need to eliminate after they eat. It doesn't bother them to run on a full stomach the way it does people.
posted by drlith at 8:17 AM on April 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


I think you'll be a great dog owner!

Finally, just a small thing, but your morning plan should be feed dog, then run. The usual sequence for most dogs is to need to eliminate after they eat. It doesn't bother them to run on a full stomach the way it does people.

For large-chested dogs (greyhounds, great danes, dobermans, etc.), this is incorrect. Bloat can be deadly, and it is generally recommended that you not exercise dogs immediately after eating to help prevent it.
posted by misskaz at 9:23 AM on April 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Response by poster: Thanks so much for the great suggestions so far!
I'm definitely hearing you all loud and clear that that solid and consistent discipline and training are the key to a happy and emotionally healthy dog. I'm absolutely doing some research into different methods and approaches, and have obedience classes planned as a component of the training plan, but I'm aware that such classes are only a small part of the picture and that I need to be the driving force behind my dog's training. I would love to hear your suggestions for books and other resources that have been invaluable to you.

Thanks also for reinforcing the fact that SO MUCH will depend on the individual temperment, personality, and "quirks" of the dog, and therefore obviously can't be known/prepared for in advance of knowing the dog. I do understand this, but just want to ensure that I'm as ready as I can be. I agree that being very clear and honest with the adoption staff at the rescue/shelter and listening to their expertise coupled with getting to know the dogs as best as I can before committing to "the one" is the best course of action here.

With regards to volunteering at the rescue/shelter, this is definitely a commitment I'm planning on keeping, even after my eventual adoption. I've been volunteering with a shelter in my current city for over 2 years, and am not a "flaker" by nature. It's only a for a few hours once a week, but I'm consistent with the limited time I have. I hope to be able to offer the same limited-but-consistent commitment to the organization in my new city. :)

The cat is pretty laid back, and has (so far) adjusted well to new animals. He gets along just fine with Mitchell when we are on dog/house-sitting duty (though he is a bossy little shit to the poor pooch), and I don't forsee any problems on his end. Of course, the dog's personality will obviously dictate how that relationship goes, and I'm hopeful that it won't be a major issue once they get to know each other, but am prepared for them to live in something less than perfect harmony. ;)

I think the advice to hire a dog-walker for days when I just can't get away is great, and will look into that once I'm relocated. For longer "vacations", my plan would be to enlist the services of a dog-sitting friend (whom I would obviously reimburse for their time and trouble). Though I don't see that issue coming up in the first year or second year, there will inevitably be times in the life of the dog where I will need to be away. Depending on the circumstances (and the personality of the dog), I am prepared to make appropriate plans.

I also think the advice to wait at least a semester before adopting is prudent (even though my impatient self doesn't want to hear it!). My assumption that I will adapt quickly and easily to grad school life is likely more than a little naieve.

Thanks again, everyone. Keep it coming!
posted by Dorinda at 9:39 AM on April 22, 2012


You are doing a great job already of setting yourself up for success with a dog companion, and I think you'll be a great owner, not just a good or adequate one.

Like you, I went years without a dog, even though I had dogs previously -- like you, I waited until I had enough things right again in terms of lifestyle and income to bring a dog home. Within the first week of bringing my hound home, I knew I'd be getting a second one. It's been just over three years now, and dogs have improved my life immeasurably.

You've gotten some great feedback already, so here are just a few more thoughts.

Savings for healthcare -- yes. Insurance -- great idea. Highest rated companies are Trupanion and Embrace; choose your plan after carefully considering whether you need the coverage for routine care or expensive emergencies (IMHO, the better choice).

An adult dog is often an overlooked way to successfully adopt, so I'll congratulate you on that choice now. The adult's personality will still blossom once in a home, but you will have a much better idea of the temperament you are choosing. Also, "old" dogs can learn new tricks.

Medium large and larger dogs are often calmer, more evenly tempered and less territorial than smaller dogs, so I think you are headed in the right direction there. The adoption group should be able to help you find a match with a dog that will complement your lifestyle -- enough endurance to go for runs, self-sufficient enough to hang at home without you while you're at class. Some larger breeds really take the EAT SLEEP PLAY mantra very seriously -- my hounds easily sleep 16 or 18 hours a day, but are always ready for a walk, play with a lure pole or food. I think a Golden mix might be right up your alley, for example.

Make sure as best you can that having a dog does not limit your housing choices overly severely, and look to the future to make sure that housing with a dog does not force a hard decision.

Someone above mentioned Patricia McConnell; her books are a wonderful resource and I highly recommend as well. Ian Dunbar, Suzanne Clothier and Jean Donaldson are also good positive training resources. "Nothing in Life is Free" is a gentle way to help a new dog recognize you as the benevolent leader. Cesar Millan aka the Dog Whisperer has done far more harm than good to contemporary dog training, and I encourage you to avoid his methods.

Thank you for volunteering for shelters; short or long term, it is always appreciated!

This was longer than I expected, but I am excited for you. I wish you many, many happy years with your dog to come, and always remember that patience and a sense of humor are always your friends when it comes to bringing a new dog home!
posted by vers at 10:27 AM on April 22, 2012


Thanks also for reinforcing the fact that SO MUCH will depend on the individual temperment, personality, and "quirks" of the dog, and therefore obviously can't be known/prepared for in advance of knowing the dog. I do understand this, but just want to ensure that I'm as ready as I can be. I agree that being very clear and honest with the adoption staff at the rescue/shelter and listening to their expertise coupled with getting to know the dogs as best as I can before committing to "the one" is the best course of action here.

FWIW, my dog is the poster child for this argument. She is pure-bred Boxer I got from a rescue when she was about 3. We got her when we lived in an apartment with no yard and on paper a Boxer is a terrible match for us. In reality our dog is 42lbs fully grown (not 70), has never barked, has zero prey drive and can be walked off lead, requires 3 pee breaks and one walk around the park per day, and is the laziest dog you've ever met. The most important criteria for the people adopting her were not "firm discipline and tons of exercise" but "someone who will be with her all of the time and will never, ever yell at her." She has a lot of problems, but none of them is that she is a Boxer.
posted by DarlingBri at 1:52 PM on April 22, 2012


You'll be a great dog owner. As with any relationship, the challenges you will face cannot really be planned for. All you have to do is love and be patient. I was in a similar situation when I got my lab puppy. Never had a dog before, knew I wanted one. Best decision ever! But, also most time consuming and expensive decision ever.

Fast forward six years to today. He's now 110 lbs, sill needs about two hours of exercise (ball & walk) a day. He is awesome. It does affect my social life, as I need to get home to the dog after work, which wasn't a problem in grad school. And, I tend to have to live further from the "cool" part of whatever city I'm living in in order to have a place with a yard. We've lived without one, but the mutual quality of life improvement makes it worth it.

As to step 8, yeah, this is a total headache. I've moved 5 times with him, it will be 6 this week. It's hard to find a good place for a single woman with accommodations for a giant dog, provided they'll even rent to you. But! It works out every time, despite the thousands of dollars of pet deposits down the drain. Oh, and if you're single and want to go somewhere, or with a partner, you need to board, it's not cheap.

My dog is bigger and more exercise-needy than most, so the situation may be extreme. He's my best friend and I wouldn't have made it through grad school and subsequent moves without him. I was totally unprepared for what I was in for, but the rewards have far outweighed the costs. Enjoy!
posted by LolaCola at 2:09 PM on April 22, 2012


I forgot step 5! My cat was 3 when the beast was brought in. She has yet to forgive me, but they've reached a cold war-esque detante. After 5 years or so they were able to sit on the same couch at once. Success? We manage.
posted by LolaCola at 2:15 PM on April 22, 2012


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