Good fences make good neighbors.
March 25, 2012 8:01 AM Subscribe
Last week I asked about creative hedge fence ideas because our neighbor has a trashy yard. We thought it would be too rude to put up a fence. Well...now we want the fence. What type of fence? Details inside.
The rental property on the other side has been rented by trashy (a la toilet and trash in the side yard) neighbor's relative and now they are using our front yard to go back and forth (mind you the stretch of driveway they need to walk down is only about 20ft- but I digress). We have repeatedly asked them not to, but have caught them doing it when they think we aren't home. My husband has driven up at night when getting off work only to find 3-4 people crossing our yard. This was also confirmed by our neighbor across the street who is always home and likes to keep tabs on the neighborhood.
No one else on the street has fences in the front yard. It is an old 50's neighborhood with all the homes being brick ranchers and cottages. We don't want a glaring 8ft fence in the front. Something tasteful and cute, but enough to block access across the yard. We were looking at white vinyl 2 slat (horizontal) fences but I worry they will just crawl through. There is also the white picket option, but I worry it will look too busy. What are our options. We would rather not spend a fortune, but do want good quality that will last. Links appreciated.
I am so mad that we will have to shell out all this money just because of crappy neighbors, but we are at a loss. We just bought the property in October and had no idea at the time what we were getting in to. The rest of the neighborhood is quiet and well kept. They didn't look so bad back then, but then again they were never there when we looked at the house and the lawn ornaments were not in place. There were also different people in the rental property. Please don't chide me for being a bad neighbor. We have tried to be friendly. We even helped the new rental folks by giving them some left over fence we had from a little gate we put up for our dog- because there 2 dogs kept escaping from their yard and running loose in the neighborhood. I wave and have casual conversation with the neighbors with the trash when I see them. They all know they aren't supposed to walk across the yard- which is why they are just sneaky about it- which makes me really sad and mad at the same time.
But anyway. Fence ideas please!
The rental property on the other side has been rented by trashy (a la toilet and trash in the side yard) neighbor's relative and now they are using our front yard to go back and forth (mind you the stretch of driveway they need to walk down is only about 20ft- but I digress). We have repeatedly asked them not to, but have caught them doing it when they think we aren't home. My husband has driven up at night when getting off work only to find 3-4 people crossing our yard. This was also confirmed by our neighbor across the street who is always home and likes to keep tabs on the neighborhood.
No one else on the street has fences in the front yard. It is an old 50's neighborhood with all the homes being brick ranchers and cottages. We don't want a glaring 8ft fence in the front. Something tasteful and cute, but enough to block access across the yard. We were looking at white vinyl 2 slat (horizontal) fences but I worry they will just crawl through. There is also the white picket option, but I worry it will look too busy. What are our options. We would rather not spend a fortune, but do want good quality that will last. Links appreciated.
I am so mad that we will have to shell out all this money just because of crappy neighbors, but we are at a loss. We just bought the property in October and had no idea at the time what we were getting in to. The rest of the neighborhood is quiet and well kept. They didn't look so bad back then, but then again they were never there when we looked at the house and the lawn ornaments were not in place. There were also different people in the rental property. Please don't chide me for being a bad neighbor. We have tried to be friendly. We even helped the new rental folks by giving them some left over fence we had from a little gate we put up for our dog- because there 2 dogs kept escaping from their yard and running loose in the neighborhood. I wave and have casual conversation with the neighbors with the trash when I see them. They all know they aren't supposed to walk across the yard- which is why they are just sneaky about it- which makes me really sad and mad at the same time.
But anyway. Fence ideas please!
Do you have a picture of your home you can share? A two-slat fence is probably too cumbersome to sneak through or even over, and when paired with flowers or bushes they look really cute.
Your neighbors sound like jerks, you don't sound like bad neighbors. You should confront them about sneaking across your yard, however.
And maybe try going to the city about the mess? I had an issue with a water heater and some pipes that were left in my yard by contractors who claimed the utility company owned them, and the utility company had a sticker on them saying they owned them but wouldn't pick it up, and we were stuck in a holding pattern no one would fix, and the city inspectors finally came by. They were completely reasonable, and it was the kick in the ass we needed to just get the stupid debris out of there. I hold no ill will against the neighbors who complained since it was an eyesore, but then again, I'm pretty reasonable and take responsibility for my mess.
posted by kpht at 8:17 AM on March 25, 2012
Your neighbors sound like jerks, you don't sound like bad neighbors. You should confront them about sneaking across your yard, however.
And maybe try going to the city about the mess? I had an issue with a water heater and some pipes that were left in my yard by contractors who claimed the utility company owned them, and the utility company had a sticker on them saying they owned them but wouldn't pick it up, and we were stuck in a holding pattern no one would fix, and the city inspectors finally came by. They were completely reasonable, and it was the kick in the ass we needed to just get the stupid debris out of there. I hold no ill will against the neighbors who complained since it was an eyesore, but then again, I'm pretty reasonable and take responsibility for my mess.
posted by kpht at 8:17 AM on March 25, 2012
Can you use hedge roses in the front? It would be in keeping with the neighborhood "look," and has the added bonus of OW OW THORNS NO WALKING. And then a fence or tall hedge in the back.
posted by thomas j wise at 8:33 AM on March 25, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by thomas j wise at 8:33 AM on March 25, 2012 [7 favorites]
Any kind of fence, paired with a plant that'll grow up, around and through it sounds like a winner to me. So I'd get the cheapest/easiest fence, then go to the garden center for a consult about some simple, pretty vines, perhaps. Potato vine, jasmine, etc.
posted by BlahLaLa at 8:34 AM on March 25, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by BlahLaLa at 8:34 AM on March 25, 2012 [3 favorites]
I'm with the fence and vine crew on this one. Maybe something 3-4 feet planted with something thorny near the front and something taller closer to your house. That should make it uncomfortable for the sneaky neighbors and still hide the junk. Good luck, sounds very tiresome.
posted by PorcineWithMe at 8:51 AM on March 25, 2012
posted by PorcineWithMe at 8:51 AM on March 25, 2012
I would agree that a fence is in order Hee and you certainly aren't the ones being the bad neighbors, but if an alternate solution would help, what about those motion sensitive sprinklers that always get recommended in threads asking how to keep non-human critters out of the yard?
On a different tack, your neighborhood doesn't have a neighborhood, association, does it? I ask because this might not only be useful in getting the trash out of your neighbors' yard, but might also limit the type of fence you could put up in your front yard ...
posted by DingoMutt at 8:51 AM on March 25, 2012
On a different tack, your neighborhood doesn't have a neighborhood, association, does it? I ask because this might not only be useful in getting the trash out of your neighbors' yard, but might also limit the type of fence you could put up in your front yard ...
posted by DingoMutt at 8:51 AM on March 25, 2012
I think the horizontal fence will work great, and they do look darling with flowers and such.
But absolutely find out what kind of permits, restrictions, etc. there are before doing anything. In my mom's (little, exurban, middle-class) town, you can't go above a certain number of feet, you can't have certain colors, you can't block more than a certain percentage of the view of your property... there are almost as many rules for fences as there are for swimming pools and turning your basement into an apartment.
posted by SMPA at 9:06 AM on March 25, 2012 [1 favorite]
But absolutely find out what kind of permits, restrictions, etc. there are before doing anything. In my mom's (little, exurban, middle-class) town, you can't go above a certain number of feet, you can't have certain colors, you can't block more than a certain percentage of the view of your property... there are almost as many rules for fences as there are for swimming pools and turning your basement into an apartment.
posted by SMPA at 9:06 AM on March 25, 2012 [1 favorite]
Yeah, a fence is probably your best bet, and you really only need to run it from the curb back all along the side property line --- there's no need to also run it across the front of your property if you've got the side blocked, if that side fence forces them to go around it.
I'm sorry to say that planting hedges alone will not work, because the drawback to that is that plants take a while to fill in --- it's not like you'd be planting an instantly thick and full-grown six-foot hedge! --- and those neighbors would continue tromping through your yard, and probably tromp ON the plants and kill them in the process. So at least for now, plan a tall enough and solid enough fence to do the job on its own.
posted by easily confused at 9:11 AM on March 25, 2012
I'm sorry to say that planting hedges alone will not work, because the drawback to that is that plants take a while to fill in --- it's not like you'd be planting an instantly thick and full-grown six-foot hedge! --- and those neighbors would continue tromping through your yard, and probably tromp ON the plants and kill them in the process. So at least for now, plan a tall enough and solid enough fence to do the job on its own.
posted by easily confused at 9:11 AM on March 25, 2012
Not directly answering your question, but have you contacted the owner/manager of the rental property? If these renters are a deviation from past conduct from renters, it may be something the owner would like to know about. If they treat your property rights this poorly, the owner's aren't likely to fare much better.
posted by uncaken at 9:15 AM on March 25, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by uncaken at 9:15 AM on March 25, 2012 [1 favorite]
Nothing to me says "Mid-Century family neighborhood" more than a white fence (picket or horizontal) covered with Blaze roses.
They are cheap, easy to grow & maintain, and bloom like crazy. I've had really good luck with them. Not fussy at all.
It also keeps your place looking friendly & historically appropriate without it looking like a military compound.
posted by Tchad at 9:16 AM on March 25, 2012 [3 favorites]
They are cheap, easy to grow & maintain, and bloom like crazy. I've had really good luck with them. Not fussy at all.
It also keeps your place looking friendly & historically appropriate without it looking like a military compound.
posted by Tchad at 9:16 AM on March 25, 2012 [3 favorites]
We have almost the EXACT same problem... nice older 50's neighborhood with well maintained homes and friendly folks - except for our trashy neighbors. Your profile doesn't say where in the US you live, but here in Virginia our solution was not a fence, but 3 Juniper Cypress trees at the 'top' of the property (end of the driveway closest to our house) that block out the main view of their house, then a row of azaleas on a berm heading out towards the street. The juniper cypresses grow FAST. We bought them at about 5 feet tall... they're well above 15ft just 3 years later.
The berm is maybe a foot high... just a gentle slope and back down, with the azaleas planted along the top of the berm. The azaleas don't grow very high (we picked a dwarf variety), but they're instantly bushy enough and dense enough that it's just too inconvenient to walk across/through them.
Solved our problem overnight and beautified our property at the same time. Good luck!
posted by matty at 9:19 AM on March 25, 2012 [3 favorites]
The berm is maybe a foot high... just a gentle slope and back down, with the azaleas planted along the top of the berm. The azaleas don't grow very high (we picked a dwarf variety), but they're instantly bushy enough and dense enough that it's just too inconvenient to walk across/through them.
Solved our problem overnight and beautified our property at the same time. Good luck!
posted by matty at 9:19 AM on March 25, 2012 [3 favorites]
Be sure you check local ordinances regarding what types of fences can be installed, there may be limitations. Also, consider contacting local authorities to see if there are blight/health laws that would apply to the trash in the yard.
posted by HuronBob at 9:46 AM on March 25, 2012
posted by HuronBob at 9:46 AM on March 25, 2012
Response by poster: Thanks for the suggestions so far! We would love to only have to do one side, but I think all that would do would have them walk across the yard and the go around the fence at the bottom to walk up the neighbor's driveway (still faster than walking alllllllll the way down their driveway to the street and around). I really like the idea of the fence with roses! I just hate that now our house will stand out so obviously- that and the poor mail carrier will have to take the long way around now.
As far as home owners association- we have none. I also looked up the rules on fencing in our county. Anything less than 6 feet does not require a permit. I looked in to having it installed through Home Depot- just looked at their website. One of the things they ask is if you have a property map. We don't. I looked it up on the county website and we may have a problem- looks like part of the trashy neighbor's driveway belongs to us. That is a whole can of worms I don't want to open, but I also don't want it to be an assumed easement and have trouble when we finally do sell.
As far as the rental property- I don't think she would care. And that would be pretty obvious who called. I would hate for that to come back on us.
posted by MayNicholas at 9:55 AM on March 25, 2012
As far as home owners association- we have none. I also looked up the rules on fencing in our county. Anything less than 6 feet does not require a permit. I looked in to having it installed through Home Depot- just looked at their website. One of the things they ask is if you have a property map. We don't. I looked it up on the county website and we may have a problem- looks like part of the trashy neighbor's driveway belongs to us. That is a whole can of worms I don't want to open, but I also don't want it to be an assumed easement and have trouble when we finally do sell.
As far as the rental property- I don't think she would care. And that would be pretty obvious who called. I would hate for that to come back on us.
posted by MayNicholas at 9:55 AM on March 25, 2012
If you want something less busy than a picket fence, you could do a variation on a split rail fence - we have one like this hog wire fence, and as a bonus, it's got a built-in trellis for vines or roses.
posted by Addlepated at 10:22 AM on March 25, 2012
posted by Addlepated at 10:22 AM on March 25, 2012
I can't help with the easement, but as far as the mail carrier, just take care of them at the holidays. I think there might be regulations against it, no cash, gift under $20 value, blah blah blah, but I always have and my parents always did.
posted by oflinkey at 10:30 AM on March 25, 2012
posted by oflinkey at 10:30 AM on March 25, 2012
Screwy property lines, too? I would talk to the neighbor's landlord and start getting a conversation going. You might get both your property line and a shared-cost fence out of it.
posted by rhizome at 10:31 AM on March 25, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 10:31 AM on March 25, 2012 [2 favorites]
As mentioned in passing above - what about a dirt berm to start with? If it follows regulations you should consider getting some soil brought in and making that area higher to start with - if you can make it look planned - hire a landscape designer. Then build a trellis and roses or cypresses on the berm.
We have a lot of land so I was thinking about a 4 foot high dirt berm to solve a similar problem. I'm sure you couldn't do 4 feet, but any height there seems like it would help.
posted by cda at 10:36 AM on March 25, 2012
We have a lot of land so I was thinking about a 4 foot high dirt berm to solve a similar problem. I'm sure you couldn't do 4 feet, but any height there seems like it would help.
posted by cda at 10:36 AM on March 25, 2012
MaryNicholas, I don't think putting a fence elsewhere than the property line itself would be likely to be grounds for adverse possession by the neighboring property owner, but that's something you might want to get an opinion from a real estate attorney about.
posted by Sidhedevil at 10:38 AM on March 25, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Sidhedevil at 10:38 AM on March 25, 2012 [1 favorite]
I don't know Sidhedevil, that might be exactly the thing that could support an adverse possession claim -- the true owner fenced off part of her property and neglected to include a strip that she had every reason to know that the neighbor used and maintained exclusively as his own.
However, reasonable minds can differ, so certainly do speak with a real estate attorney in your jurisdiction if you're going to get into the property map issue. But if you just don't care (and it seems like a lot of people in mid-century neighborhoods don't), then just put up your fence where you like and grow up the roses!
posted by mibo at 10:46 AM on March 25, 2012
However, reasonable minds can differ, so certainly do speak with a real estate attorney in your jurisdiction if you're going to get into the property map issue. But if you just don't care (and it seems like a lot of people in mid-century neighborhoods don't), then just put up your fence where you like and grow up the roses!
posted by mibo at 10:46 AM on March 25, 2012
You mentioned that you recently bought the house which means you probably have a survey in all of your paperwork. Can't get a mortgage without a survey.
posted by PorcineWithMe at 11:30 AM on March 25, 2012
posted by PorcineWithMe at 11:30 AM on March 25, 2012
You mentioned that you recently bought the house which means you probably have a survey in all of your paperwork. Can't get a mortgage without a survey.
Yes, you can. I did. I mean, there's a description of the property in my paperwork, but it's not the same as a formal survey, which I've recently been considering, since I would like to put in a fence, and no one is sure of how accurate the line of bushes and row of stones that separate the properties really is. And a survey isn't cheap where I am, which is why I have put it off. Between $1,000 and $1,500.
(Still, if you think the property line is screwed up, you really need to get one. That's going to be a problem down the line).
posted by instead of three wishes at 11:55 AM on March 25, 2012
Yes, you can. I did. I mean, there's a description of the property in my paperwork, but it's not the same as a formal survey, which I've recently been considering, since I would like to put in a fence, and no one is sure of how accurate the line of bushes and row of stones that separate the properties really is. And a survey isn't cheap where I am, which is why I have put it off. Between $1,000 and $1,500.
(Still, if you think the property line is screwed up, you really need to get one. That's going to be a problem down the line).
posted by instead of three wishes at 11:55 AM on March 25, 2012
Definitely look into the property lines FIRST. A fence actually can influence adverse possession of the property on the other side, at least in some areas; I forget the details because I was in college at the time and not paying attention, but my parents had a very similar problem with some neighbors who were claiming the (6-12") on their side of my parents' fence was now theirs. This was screwing with some kind of zoning thing my parents needed that required their property to be at least one acre (which it was, exactly, before the controversy). I have no idea how it works in your state/city/etc but it's definitely something worth looking into JIC.
posted by celtalitha at 12:08 PM on March 25, 2012
posted by celtalitha at 12:08 PM on March 25, 2012
Check with your county property office, betcha they have one on file. Even if it's years and years old, it will still help with establishing where your fence should go. I'm hocked your mortgage company didn't require one.
posted by PorcineWithMe at 12:11 PM on March 25, 2012
posted by PorcineWithMe at 12:11 PM on March 25, 2012
easily confused writes "I'm sorry to say that planting hedges alone will not work, because the drawback to that is that plants take a while to fill in --- it's not like you'd be planting an instantly thick and full-grown six-foot hedge! -"
The solution to this is a few t-posts and some wire strung between them horizontally. Even a 9 gauge wire pretty well disappears against a back ground and if you drive the t-posts in next to the bushes they'll be less obvious as well. Two strands of wire will stop people from walking between your plantings and if you put a third strand down low you can string a drip irrigation line along it to water the plants.
posted by Mitheral at 12:14 PM on March 25, 2012
The solution to this is a few t-posts and some wire strung between them horizontally. Even a 9 gauge wire pretty well disappears against a back ground and if you drive the t-posts in next to the bushes they'll be less obvious as well. Two strands of wire will stop people from walking between your plantings and if you put a third strand down low you can string a drip irrigation line along it to water the plants.
posted by Mitheral at 12:14 PM on March 25, 2012
Pictures of your yard would help, but...
My next door neighbor has a 4' white picket fence with fairly wide spacing in between the pickets. Something like this. It's too tall to easily climb over, but looks very very cute and classy, and she's put hanging planters on it and it's full of cute plants and such.
Although honestly, putting up even a very short 2' decorative fence will probably keep your neighbors out of your yard. There have been a bunch of psychology studies that show that people think of fences as extremely symbolic, no matter what they look like, and will typically avoid crossing them even if it would be easy to do so.
posted by zug at 12:18 PM on March 25, 2012
My next door neighbor has a 4' white picket fence with fairly wide spacing in between the pickets. Something like this. It's too tall to easily climb over, but looks very very cute and classy, and she's put hanging planters on it and it's full of cute plants and such.
Although honestly, putting up even a very short 2' decorative fence will probably keep your neighbors out of your yard. There have been a bunch of psychology studies that show that people think of fences as extremely symbolic, no matter what they look like, and will typically avoid crossing them even if it would be easy to do so.
posted by zug at 12:18 PM on March 25, 2012
Also, check with a lawyer about the easement. You might be able to send a certified letter to the landlord saying "hey, your driveway is on our property. We're happy to grant you access to it, but we want you to know that we actively consider it ours" which would prevent an adverse possession case.
posted by zug at 12:22 PM on March 25, 2012
posted by zug at 12:22 PM on March 25, 2012
Response by poster: It isn't the rental property that the driveway issue is with.
posted by MayNicholas at 12:23 PM on March 25, 2012
posted by MayNicholas at 12:23 PM on March 25, 2012
Yeah, if you're comfortable with it, it would be great if you could post a pic or two of the area you want to fence - things like white picket fences are awesome in theory but can look incredibly twee in some settings.
posted by elizardbits at 12:24 PM on March 25, 2012
posted by elizardbits at 12:24 PM on March 25, 2012
I don't know Sidhedevil, that might be exactly the thing that could support an adverse possession claim -- the true owner fenced off part of her property and neglected to include a strip that she had every reason to know that the neighbor used and maintained exclusively as his own.
Maybe this is a regional thing, but around here lots of people put their fences closer to their house, rather than around the perimeter of their property line.
posted by Sidhedevil at 1:37 PM on March 25, 2012
Maybe this is a regional thing, but around here lots of people put their fences closer to their house, rather than around the perimeter of their property line.
posted by Sidhedevil at 1:37 PM on March 25, 2012
Response by poster: I found a website called showoff that is free basic landscaping software. I loaded a photo of the house and put a fence up and landscaped around it. It looks pretty darn cute! We still don't know what to do about the property line though. I will head over to the county office and see what they have on file. This will really suck if part of their driveway is ours. I wouldn't even know how to approach that matter. But that will be for another askme if that turns out to be the case. Which I honestly hope it isn't.
posted by MayNicholas at 3:53 PM on March 25, 2012
posted by MayNicholas at 3:53 PM on March 25, 2012
This thread is closed to new comments.
Your goal here isn't to make your yard inaccessible. It's just to make crossing your yard slightly less convenient than detouring around it. I don't think there are many people out there who will hop over or crawl under a fence rather than just detour 20 feet around it.
posted by nebulawindphone at 8:16 AM on March 25, 2012 [2 favorites]