How Do You Get The Most Value Out of a College Admissions Tour?
November 23, 2011 10:31 AM Subscribe
I'm attending a college tour / interview day with my son next week, He has already been accepted to this college, and offered a significant scholarship. He could be offered an even bigger scholarship, up to a full ride after his conversations with faculty that day. He'll get the tour, meet with faculty in his area of interest (history), attend a class, and have dinner there too. It's a very small (DIV III) liberal arts school. For those of you that have been through this, what do wish you knew in advance? I went to a large public school and never set foot on campus until I showed up for Freshman year, so I'm a little lacking on experience I can share with him on how he can get the most out of his half day on campus. If it matters, he only applied because they recruited him and made it easy and free to do so. This is not a school either of us had even heard of prior to then. That said, the school seems to be well regarded, in a nice location, and generally seems to be a perfectly fine place to get a BA in History.
If this were a college I were seriously considering attending, I would spend the night there in a dorm with some of the students. But in any case, I'd definitely talk to the students about their own experiences.
posted by deanc at 10:36 AM on November 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by deanc at 10:36 AM on November 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
I wish I would have known that camups visits have nothing to do with what it's like to be a student on a small campus, even if you stay overnight. I started off at a small Div III liberal arts school, and transferred after the second year due to claustrophobia, two years of snow for months on end, being isolated from any city life, and being around the same 12 people all the time.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:37 AM on November 23, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:37 AM on November 23, 2011 [2 favorites]
As a graduate of a small Div III liberal arts school (who wasn't recruited to go there, alas) I can say I got a lot out of a weekend stay in the dorms. The creative writing program I hoped to get into offered a weekend of lectures and tours for prospective freshmen, and I took advantage of the invitation to attend that. I formed friendships with some of the other students in the program and ended up rooming with one of them for two years.
I wish I had known in advance just how boring the college town would be. My freshman year was the year the town's one-screen movie theater closed, and it wasn't until my senior year that the town built a five-screen theater to replace it. So movie nights involved driving an hour north or west.
posted by emelenjr at 10:46 AM on November 23, 2011
I wish I had known in advance just how boring the college town would be. My freshman year was the year the town's one-screen movie theater closed, and it wasn't until my senior year that the town built a five-screen theater to replace it. So movie nights involved driving an hour north or west.
posted by emelenjr at 10:46 AM on November 23, 2011
If there's any way to do an overnight stay (especially with frosh) and sit in on a class, do it. That will give him the most honest view and opinions on what the school is actually like- I loved talking to prefrosh at my small liberal arts college when I was a frosh.
posted by MadamM at 10:49 AM on November 23, 2011
posted by MadamM at 10:49 AM on November 23, 2011
Response by poster: This school is in a major city, and about 15 minutes from the beach. I don't think "stuff to do" is going to be an issue.
posted by COD at 10:50 AM on November 23, 2011
posted by COD at 10:50 AM on November 23, 2011
Best answer: I'm a faculty at a SLAC, and have done scholarship interviews with prospective students.
People are going to keep asking, "Do you have any questions for me?" A good, thoughtful question gives the impression that you are engaged, curious, motivated, and smart. "Uhhhhhhhhh, no, not really" does not give a very good impression.
So, obviously, ask the questions that occur to you because you are engaged, motivated, curious and smart, but for the end of the visit when you're burned out, have a bunch of good questions in your back pocket.
Some classics:
- What is your favorite / least favorite thing about this school?
- What do you do for fun in [town]?
- I'm passionate about kayaking / improvisational theater / flint knapping. Are there any student or community groups that do this?
- What have some of your recent alums done after graduating?
- What do your students do over the summer? (Jobs? Internships? Study abroad programs?)
- Do your students have the opportunity to do independent research and present their work on and off campus?
- How do you like the weather here?
- What is the most unusual class you have taught / taken?
Pay attention to the main official thing that the school prides itself on. (This is almost certainly a buzzword, like "experiential learning," "internationalism," interculturalism," etc. You can probably find it in the college's mission statement, or similar documents on the website that nobody actually reads, and you'll probably see a lot of it in brochures and hear a lot about it in speeches from administrators.) Say, "I've heard a lot about [buzzword] but I'm not 100% sure I understand what that means. [Trust me, nobody actually understands what these mean; you will look thoughtful and nuanced, not ignorant.] Can you tell me what you means to you, and whether/how you think it's important in your teaching/learning?"
posted by BrashTech at 10:58 AM on November 23, 2011 [8 favorites]
People are going to keep asking, "Do you have any questions for me?" A good, thoughtful question gives the impression that you are engaged, curious, motivated, and smart. "Uhhhhhhhhh, no, not really" does not give a very good impression.
So, obviously, ask the questions that occur to you because you are engaged, motivated, curious and smart, but for the end of the visit when you're burned out, have a bunch of good questions in your back pocket.
Some classics:
- What is your favorite / least favorite thing about this school?
- What do you do for fun in [town]?
- I'm passionate about kayaking / improvisational theater / flint knapping. Are there any student or community groups that do this?
- What have some of your recent alums done after graduating?
- What do your students do over the summer? (Jobs? Internships? Study abroad programs?)
- Do your students have the opportunity to do independent research and present their work on and off campus?
- How do you like the weather here?
- What is the most unusual class you have taught / taken?
Pay attention to the main official thing that the school prides itself on. (This is almost certainly a buzzword, like "experiential learning," "internationalism," interculturalism," etc. You can probably find it in the college's mission statement, or similar documents on the website that nobody actually reads, and you'll probably see a lot of it in brochures and hear a lot about it in speeches from administrators.) Say, "I've heard a lot about [buzzword] but I'm not 100% sure I understand what that means. [Trust me, nobody actually understands what these mean; you will look thoughtful and nuanced, not ignorant.] Can you tell me what you means to you, and whether/how you think it's important in your teaching/learning?"
posted by BrashTech at 10:58 AM on November 23, 2011 [8 favorites]
I went through this process regarding the scholarship stuff. I was offered a very significant scholarship, but could have gotten more after the intense interview process. I wish I had been more aware of the general "attitude" of the school as well as better versed in debate techniques and, well, reading a room.
A big part of the process in my case involved group interviews both in a get to know you sense as well as being presented a case study and the group discussing it. I naively assumed we were just discussing it, rather than realizing that I needed to watch the profs and deans involved to see who they were nodding at, turning to, turning away from, etc. When you are 18 you think you are freaking brilliant and being selected for this honor only reinforces it, so I was spouting whatever pretentious bs popped in my head. This did not serve me well, so if your kid's social graces are at all not quite developed, this may be something to work on.
A key moment I remember (this is back in 1997) is when we were discussing the implications of online learning and one of the older professors asked what would/should become of the traditional educator and I responded, "Who feels sorry for the Ice man?". Yeah.
posted by stormygrey at 11:01 AM on November 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
A big part of the process in my case involved group interviews both in a get to know you sense as well as being presented a case study and the group discussing it. I naively assumed we were just discussing it, rather than realizing that I needed to watch the profs and deans involved to see who they were nodding at, turning to, turning away from, etc. When you are 18 you think you are freaking brilliant and being selected for this honor only reinforces it, so I was spouting whatever pretentious bs popped in my head. This did not serve me well, so if your kid's social graces are at all not quite developed, this may be something to work on.
A key moment I remember (this is back in 1997) is when we were discussing the implications of online learning and one of the older professors asked what would/should become of the traditional educator and I responded, "Who feels sorry for the Ice man?". Yeah.
posted by stormygrey at 11:01 AM on November 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
I did a history degree at a small liberal arts school.
The preview day was what sold it for me - although I went on a regular day, not the one selected for "high school students." I stayed in a dorm, ate in the cafeteria, went to classes, attended some of the on-campus events, and met students. It was great. Most of that time I was either on my own or with my host students. That was what really convinced me - that time with them. Seeing what a student's life was actually like. While my time there was obviously slightly different when I was actually iin college, it gave me the essentials.
If possible, do some research into the faculty members he'll be meeting. See what classes they teach, what their reseach interests are, and what they have published. Then ask them questions based on that. Like: "I see you've taught a seminar on Jacksonian America. I'm really interested in that period - what books do you recommend?" or "I see you do a lot of research in South African history. I don't know much about it - where should I start to get a good understanding of the issues?"
Most of all remember - these professors are used to talking to kids who probably only take history as a required class to graduate. Your son loves history. That's awesome for any teacher. Just have him show his enthusiasm - that goes a long way. And good luck!
posted by guster4lovers at 11:31 AM on November 23, 2011
The preview day was what sold it for me - although I went on a regular day, not the one selected for "high school students." I stayed in a dorm, ate in the cafeteria, went to classes, attended some of the on-campus events, and met students. It was great. Most of that time I was either on my own or with my host students. That was what really convinced me - that time with them. Seeing what a student's life was actually like. While my time there was obviously slightly different when I was actually iin college, it gave me the essentials.
If possible, do some research into the faculty members he'll be meeting. See what classes they teach, what their reseach interests are, and what they have published. Then ask them questions based on that. Like: "I see you've taught a seminar on Jacksonian America. I'm really interested in that period - what books do you recommend?" or "I see you do a lot of research in South African history. I don't know much about it - where should I start to get a good understanding of the issues?"
Most of all remember - these professors are used to talking to kids who probably only take history as a required class to graduate. Your son loves history. That's awesome for any teacher. Just have him show his enthusiasm - that goes a long way. And good luck!
posted by guster4lovers at 11:31 AM on November 23, 2011
Waylay normal students--students who aren't on the tour--and ask them what they do and don't like about the campus and whether they'd come back.
Would be even better if you know someone on campus and can spend a night there.
posted by Anonymous at 11:38 AM on November 23, 2011
Would be even better if you know someone on campus and can spend a night there.
posted by Anonymous at 11:38 AM on November 23, 2011
Best answer: When I was 16 I did some interviews like this that were the difference between being an honors student or not (I was already in the university overall and had a small scholarship.) I wish that I had:
And yes, stay in the dorms. If possible, see if the school has a Facebook page that its own students comment on (my school's FB page is full of alumni, but my sister's school page is full of current students.) Follow the tweets of the alumni society, the faculty, the various school departments. Go to the student newspaper website and read the past few weeks of issues - same goes for the city in question.
Oh, and since it is a big city, find out about transportation - especially the question of whether freshmen can have cars, and how well integrated the campus is in the city's transportation network. My school (Division I) has its own bus system and free access to the city's bus system, but in some schools you are surprisingly isolated from the "action."
Also see if the school has anyone who presented in history, sociology, political science, or other related fields in the last few NCURs. This is the 2012 list of schools. If your son has even the slightest interest in grad school or academia, or thinks he might at some point, NCUR participation is a really good way of telling if a school is interested in supporting the kinds of activities that prepare you for that. My year we had five people go, all in the liberal arts; my university has greatly expanded its efforts at undergraduate research and similar activities, and this year they had 41 abstracts submitted.
posted by SMPA at 11:48 AM on November 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
- Been able to really, really clearly articulate why I wanted to study what I wanted to study, and my exposure to the field up to this point (books I had read, other schools that are known for doing X, etc.)
- Prepared to talk about specific scholars, issues, subject matter, conferences, etc., and about my goals in terms of research, study abroad, independent study, etc. It would have been really good to have had some goals in terms of research, study abroad, independent study, etc.
- Really looked into what the honors program students actually did.
- Understood clearly the ideal role of faculty in mentoring students (and been able to show that I understood it.) Had a narrative about the people who had mentored me, academically, that I could share.
- Known that faculty love to talk about their little bit of the academic world (I had no clue about what life is actually like for a professor, in terms of the publishing/research side of things.)
- Done a lot of research into what the school and its culture is really like.
- Had a strong sense of who the school is competing with in this area, what the "best" schools are for the subject, etc.
And yes, stay in the dorms. If possible, see if the school has a Facebook page that its own students comment on (my school's FB page is full of alumni, but my sister's school page is full of current students.) Follow the tweets of the alumni society, the faculty, the various school departments. Go to the student newspaper website and read the past few weeks of issues - same goes for the city in question.
Oh, and since it is a big city, find out about transportation - especially the question of whether freshmen can have cars, and how well integrated the campus is in the city's transportation network. My school (Division I) has its own bus system and free access to the city's bus system, but in some schools you are surprisingly isolated from the "action."
Also see if the school has anyone who presented in history, sociology, political science, or other related fields in the last few NCURs. This is the 2012 list of schools. If your son has even the slightest interest in grad school or academia, or thinks he might at some point, NCUR participation is a really good way of telling if a school is interested in supporting the kinds of activities that prepare you for that. My year we had five people go, all in the liberal arts; my university has greatly expanded its efforts at undergraduate research and similar activities, and this year they had 41 abstracts submitted.
posted by SMPA at 11:48 AM on November 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
size: if it's small, can you handle essentially living in a small town with these people? are they your kind of people?
future: I think the thing I didn't get was that these are the people you will be friends with FOREVER. They will get you jobs. They will introduce you to your fiancee. They will get you into grad school and your career. They will also be the people whose weddings you attend forever, whose kids you mentor. That's ridiculously difficult to comprehend as a teen, and maybe it's a little selfish sounding. But if you want to run a commune in Oregon, perhaps the friends you make at Catholic University are going to be less helpful than those you make at Bard. It's sort of like a marriage to a bunch of people. I know people who hated college and don't use those connections and they are fine, but so many serendipitous happinesses have come from those connections for me.
money: if you don't know pretty specifically what you want to be, don't go somewhere you have to go into debt to attend. That money/loan debt is better spent later on grad school when you know what you want to do.
posted by jennybento at 11:53 AM on November 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
future: I think the thing I didn't get was that these are the people you will be friends with FOREVER. They will get you jobs. They will introduce you to your fiancee. They will get you into grad school and your career. They will also be the people whose weddings you attend forever, whose kids you mentor. That's ridiculously difficult to comprehend as a teen, and maybe it's a little selfish sounding. But if you want to run a commune in Oregon, perhaps the friends you make at Catholic University are going to be less helpful than those you make at Bard. It's sort of like a marriage to a bunch of people. I know people who hated college and don't use those connections and they are fine, but so many serendipitous happinesses have come from those connections for me.
money: if you don't know pretty specifically what you want to be, don't go somewhere you have to go into debt to attend. That money/loan debt is better spent later on grad school when you know what you want to do.
posted by jennybento at 11:53 AM on November 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
Best answer: If he's gunning for the full ride dependent on how his interviews with faculty are, he needs to bone up on the faculty and their foci. Your son should be the kid who asks the WWII scholar about his thoughts on a recent book on the topic, or the kid who asks the classical Greek historian how his courses tie in with philosophy and political science. Not to show off, but to show that he is engaged in his area of study and is ready to take his engagement to the college level of inquiry.
posted by juniperesque at 12:00 PM on November 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by juniperesque at 12:00 PM on November 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
Since you mention Div III, is he going to be an Athlete? If so I can share some salient questions to ask Athletics wise and how Academics and Athletics can co-exist.
posted by lstanley at 12:06 PM on November 23, 2011
posted by lstanley at 12:06 PM on November 23, 2011
Response by poster: That NCUR link his interesting. 5 abstracts from the school for 2011, which seems good for 1500 students. I saw much larger schools with fewer submissions.
Athletics: He is a nationally rated fencer, but he isn't looking at any schools where fencing is more than a club sport.
posted by COD at 12:13 PM on November 23, 2011
Athletics: He is a nationally rated fencer, but he isn't looking at any schools where fencing is more than a club sport.
posted by COD at 12:13 PM on November 23, 2011
I visited four colleges after being admitted, I think. Three were definitely on the disastrous side, including the one at the university I ultimately attended, though it was rescued at the end.
I left two of the visits knowing I wasn't going to attend the college. (As a note, both of these were small liberal arts college. I ended up attending a large public university. I probably wasn't built for a SLAC in the first place.) It was the other admitted students and, to a lesser extent, the current students that did it.
At SLAC A, many of the visiting students were from the state where University X (which I ultimately attended) is located. When my mother and I talked to the other visiting students and their parents, a lot of them slagged off University X (big classes, blah, blah) and couldn't believe I was contemplating going there. I pretty much approached applying to college as wanting to maximise my academic opportunity and I couldn't believe these people had all dismissed University X. (The great irony is that the faculty in my subject at SLAC A were great, but were also honest and told me I'd have better access to classes at University X or Y and should go to one of them.) My experience staying with a student was totally fine, though. I didn't attend a class, as I recall. It was a weekend visit, I think.
At SLAC B, the overriding memory is the admissions people suggesting I attend such and such a class in my field. It became apparent I was the only person in the room following the lecture. I did speak to the professor afterwards and I recall him saying that clearly, I wouldn't take that class. (My field is notorious for having courses with similar titles at totally different levels. However, looking back, I either went to some class that existed to fulfill a gen ed or, if those were majors in the subject, they really were hopeless.) SLAC B had an email list for admitted students and it became clear I had nothing in common with any of them (lots and lots of people who went to private schools on the east and west coasts).
University X's visit day was pretty dreadful, to be honest. It was completely overwhelming and my mother and I had decided to give up and leave, but thought we should visit the department first. That was pretty much what sold me--talking to the staff advisors, some of the current students and I think a professor or two wandered through. But, unlike everywhere else, they conveyed 'This is what it means to study this subject at University X'.
I didn't have a scholarship interview. (Funny, but irrelevant, anecdote about that, coincidentally.) I suppose I've been saying your son might want to ask himself the following:
-Are these people I want to study with? Or are they idiots?
-If he goes to a class: is it a class I'd want to take? If it's some random subject he's not really interested in: was it good enough that I'd want to take it for a breadth requirement? (After all, this is a class they're choosing to show off.)
-What would it mean academically to study there? How would I be able to grow in my interests? (God, that sounds wishy washy.) Would I be pushed or able to coast? What would happen if my interests change? (Either becoming interested in, I don't know, biology or some other part of history.)
posted by hoyland at 12:22 PM on November 23, 2011
I left two of the visits knowing I wasn't going to attend the college. (As a note, both of these were small liberal arts college. I ended up attending a large public university. I probably wasn't built for a SLAC in the first place.) It was the other admitted students and, to a lesser extent, the current students that did it.
At SLAC A, many of the visiting students were from the state where University X (which I ultimately attended) is located. When my mother and I talked to the other visiting students and their parents, a lot of them slagged off University X (big classes, blah, blah) and couldn't believe I was contemplating going there. I pretty much approached applying to college as wanting to maximise my academic opportunity and I couldn't believe these people had all dismissed University X. (The great irony is that the faculty in my subject at SLAC A were great, but were also honest and told me I'd have better access to classes at University X or Y and should go to one of them.) My experience staying with a student was totally fine, though. I didn't attend a class, as I recall. It was a weekend visit, I think.
At SLAC B, the overriding memory is the admissions people suggesting I attend such and such a class in my field. It became apparent I was the only person in the room following the lecture. I did speak to the professor afterwards and I recall him saying that clearly, I wouldn't take that class. (My field is notorious for having courses with similar titles at totally different levels. However, looking back, I either went to some class that existed to fulfill a gen ed or, if those were majors in the subject, they really were hopeless.) SLAC B had an email list for admitted students and it became clear I had nothing in common with any of them (lots and lots of people who went to private schools on the east and west coasts).
University X's visit day was pretty dreadful, to be honest. It was completely overwhelming and my mother and I had decided to give up and leave, but thought we should visit the department first. That was pretty much what sold me--talking to the staff advisors, some of the current students and I think a professor or two wandered through. But, unlike everywhere else, they conveyed 'This is what it means to study this subject at University X'.
I didn't have a scholarship interview. (Funny, but irrelevant, anecdote about that, coincidentally.) I suppose I've been saying your son might want to ask himself the following:
-Are these people I want to study with? Or are they idiots?
-If he goes to a class: is it a class I'd want to take? If it's some random subject he's not really interested in: was it good enough that I'd want to take it for a breadth requirement? (After all, this is a class they're choosing to show off.)
-What would it mean academically to study there? How would I be able to grow in my interests? (God, that sounds wishy washy.) Would I be pushed or able to coast? What would happen if my interests change? (Either becoming interested in, I don't know, biology or some other part of history.)
posted by hoyland at 12:22 PM on November 23, 2011
Best answer: Oh, oh, I meant to add - something necessary for evaluating any college - find out what they do for career prep, especially in terms of access to employer and graduate school recruiters. If they outsource everything to Kelly Services or look at you like you're nuts when you ask, in this economy it is a bad, bad idea to go there.
If you can, try to visit the career center during the trip (seriously, visit it yourself while he's busy if that's the only option) and see if they're in the 21st century or not, if they seem helpful, if there are lots of counselors helping lots of kids right now and a general sense of urgency and purpose in the facility. Career planning is quite possibly the thing a present-day liberal arts education alone does most poorly, so the career services office often represents the only significant dose of post-graduation reality in the institution. And really, between career services and whoever you get as a faculty adviser, that's pretty much your entire future. Do not rely on the website for this information. My school's website was for at least a decade significantly better than the actual services provided (I haven't been there in the last three years, so I can't say whether or not it's finally gotten better.) They should be able to tell you about how they'll store letters of recommendation for you so you can get more copies whenever you need, that they regularly get on-site visits from Local Major Employer, that they had X kids doing internships at Fortune 500 companies last year, that they do mock interview sessions and resume workshops, that they have a database of alumni who are willing to do informational interviews in various career fields, and other things like that.
You should also try, right near the beginning of the next academic term, to call the financial aid office and registrar's office around 9am on a Monday (whatever Monday it is of the first week of classes.) Mostly this is to see how long the wait is. The longest I waited on hold for financial aid was four hours, plus or minus twenty minutes (I took a nap at some point, and also ate a meal.) I've also spent about fifteen hours of my life sitting in a specific corridor in the financial aid office (only about ten hours in various registrar's offices, and that's spread over five schools and twenty academic terms.) These kinds of problems often point to much bigger hassles that can seriously screw with your life, your concentration, and your ability to get academics taken care of - my sister is eating ramen noodles for the next month and a half because her school failed to submit verification that she's enrolled to the Department of Education. We don't talk much about what she's learning in her classes, because all she can think about is how awful the administration is. You can call this week (Monday, 9am) but it's not going to be representative of how bad it could get. Obviously if it's terrible you have your answer, but if it's OK, then, well, you still should try again.
(I won't say who, but there are absolutely colleges that outsource their whole entire career services operation to temp agencies, or who still post leads on little white cards on a bulletin board in a basement office no one visits. Visit the office in person.)
posted by SMPA at 12:51 PM on November 23, 2011
If you can, try to visit the career center during the trip (seriously, visit it yourself while he's busy if that's the only option) and see if they're in the 21st century or not, if they seem helpful, if there are lots of counselors helping lots of kids right now and a general sense of urgency and purpose in the facility. Career planning is quite possibly the thing a present-day liberal arts education alone does most poorly, so the career services office often represents the only significant dose of post-graduation reality in the institution. And really, between career services and whoever you get as a faculty adviser, that's pretty much your entire future. Do not rely on the website for this information. My school's website was for at least a decade significantly better than the actual services provided (I haven't been there in the last three years, so I can't say whether or not it's finally gotten better.) They should be able to tell you about how they'll store letters of recommendation for you so you can get more copies whenever you need, that they regularly get on-site visits from Local Major Employer, that they had X kids doing internships at Fortune 500 companies last year, that they do mock interview sessions and resume workshops, that they have a database of alumni who are willing to do informational interviews in various career fields, and other things like that.
You should also try, right near the beginning of the next academic term, to call the financial aid office and registrar's office around 9am on a Monday (whatever Monday it is of the first week of classes.) Mostly this is to see how long the wait is. The longest I waited on hold for financial aid was four hours, plus or minus twenty minutes (I took a nap at some point, and also ate a meal.) I've also spent about fifteen hours of my life sitting in a specific corridor in the financial aid office (only about ten hours in various registrar's offices, and that's spread over five schools and twenty academic terms.) These kinds of problems often point to much bigger hassles that can seriously screw with your life, your concentration, and your ability to get academics taken care of - my sister is eating ramen noodles for the next month and a half because her school failed to submit verification that she's enrolled to the Department of Education. We don't talk much about what she's learning in her classes, because all she can think about is how awful the administration is. You can call this week (Monday, 9am) but it's not going to be representative of how bad it could get. Obviously if it's terrible you have your answer, but if it's OK, then, well, you still should try again.
(I won't say who, but there are absolutely colleges that outsource their whole entire career services operation to temp agencies, or who still post leads on little white cards on a bulletin board in a basement office no one visits. Visit the office in person.)
posted by SMPA at 12:51 PM on November 23, 2011
Best answer: I would approach this by breaking the time you spend there into 2 categories:
1) the organized time/scholarship activities--your half day of preset stuff. That will be good for getting a sense of how the college wants to be regarded and what they think is important for you/him to know about. Things he should be prepared to discuss include his own interests, things he's read/done that he's excited about, what he hopes to get from a SLAC education, etc.
Things he should think about asking them include:
- what students from the department do after graduation
- % of students who do a senior honors project/thesis, and what some of these have been on
- availability of interdisciplinary courses and what some of these are (these are important since SLACs tend to have small departments so a lot of good courses can end up being taught via different departments--like a course on Cuban history might be taught through the Spanish department)
- similarly, availability of courses at sister institutions and if there are particular ones that are particularly popular with the history students. At my SLAC, no one taught the concentration area that I ended up being most interested in, and I ended up taking 3 classes at other nearby schools via an easy cross-registration program.
- options for study abroad (if he's interested in this... the school can get pretty small by junior year) and how many students from the history program do this, and where
2) The school itself--does he want to go there? He should try to spend a reasonable amount (at least several hours--better if he can spend the night) of unstructured time just hanging out and talking to students. Do they seem like the kind of people he would enjoy being around for 4 years? Do they spend their free time doing things that he would find fun? (My brother once asked a student host at a prospective grad school this question and got the answer "Um...drink heavily. And sometimes we play Ultimate.")
posted by The Elusive Architeuthis at 12:53 PM on November 23, 2011
1) the organized time/scholarship activities--your half day of preset stuff. That will be good for getting a sense of how the college wants to be regarded and what they think is important for you/him to know about. Things he should be prepared to discuss include his own interests, things he's read/done that he's excited about, what he hopes to get from a SLAC education, etc.
Things he should think about asking them include:
- what students from the department do after graduation
- % of students who do a senior honors project/thesis, and what some of these have been on
- availability of interdisciplinary courses and what some of these are (these are important since SLACs tend to have small departments so a lot of good courses can end up being taught via different departments--like a course on Cuban history might be taught through the Spanish department)
- similarly, availability of courses at sister institutions and if there are particular ones that are particularly popular with the history students. At my SLAC, no one taught the concentration area that I ended up being most interested in, and I ended up taking 3 classes at other nearby schools via an easy cross-registration program.
- options for study abroad (if he's interested in this... the school can get pretty small by junior year) and how many students from the history program do this, and where
2) The school itself--does he want to go there? He should try to spend a reasonable amount (at least several hours--better if he can spend the night) of unstructured time just hanging out and talking to students. Do they seem like the kind of people he would enjoy being around for 4 years? Do they spend their free time doing things that he would find fun? (My brother once asked a student host at a prospective grad school this question and got the answer "Um...drink heavily. And sometimes we play Ultimate.")
posted by The Elusive Architeuthis at 12:53 PM on November 23, 2011
Athletics: He is a nationally rated fencer, but he isn't looking at any schools where fencing is more than a club sport.
He could use this national ranking as leverage to get admitted to a college with a fencing team, possibly one with a large endowment such that financial aid could cover most of his tuition.
Also, definitely seconding the suggestion that he be prepared to ask questions of his interviewers and engage the people he's talking to beyond simply answering their questions.
he only applied because they recruited him and made it easy and free to do so.
This isn't that pertinent to your question, but it just strikes me as something you should tread carefully on. You hadn't heard of the school before, and it just out of the blue recruited him and didn't even ask for an application fee, and accepted him and is trying to offer a scholarship. That sounds great if it's a school you've heard of and your son wanted to go to, but you don't want your son to just go there because it was "easy" and then discover afterwards that it was totally the wrong place for him. I'm not saying "run away." I'm saying "be careful." If someone showed up at your door and offered to sell you a car, wouldn't you be skeptical?
posted by deanc at 1:39 PM on November 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
He could use this national ranking as leverage to get admitted to a college with a fencing team, possibly one with a large endowment such that financial aid could cover most of his tuition.
Also, definitely seconding the suggestion that he be prepared to ask questions of his interviewers and engage the people he's talking to beyond simply answering their questions.
he only applied because they recruited him and made it easy and free to do so.
This isn't that pertinent to your question, but it just strikes me as something you should tread carefully on. You hadn't heard of the school before, and it just out of the blue recruited him and didn't even ask for an application fee, and accepted him and is trying to offer a scholarship. That sounds great if it's a school you've heard of and your son wanted to go to, but you don't want your son to just go there because it was "easy" and then discover afterwards that it was totally the wrong place for him. I'm not saying "run away." I'm saying "be careful." If someone showed up at your door and offered to sell you a car, wouldn't you be skeptical?
posted by deanc at 1:39 PM on November 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: It's not just this school. We have been over run by outreach from small liberal arts schools all across the country. Apparently a homeschooler with high SAT scores gets on the radar of SLACs. He literally could have done the express or preferred application process at 30 schools. I'm not exaggerating. The reason I asked this question is that every other school he has applied to is public, and in a couple of cases, nationally recognized as some of the better colleges in the country. We don't know yet if he is even going to get into those schools, but if he does academics, reputation, etc are off the table as things we need to worry about. This school has been praised recently in Princeton's Guide and several of those publications, not that I put any significance into it, but the fact that it was unknown to us doesn't really concern me. 95% of the colleges in the US are probably unknown to me, and many of them I'm sure are outstanding schools. What I'm trying to figure out it is, is this school one of those unknown gems?
posted by COD at 2:14 PM on November 23, 2011
posted by COD at 2:14 PM on November 23, 2011
Yeah, homeschoolers with high SAT scores are absolutely on the radar of SLACs. I got a gazillion of those letters, too - plus, because I was foolish enough to put Sea Cadets on my list of activities on the College Board profile, I got a letter from every military-oriented college, which was hilarious. Even VMI and The Citadel sent them, and that was back when VMI was still fighting to keep women out (they voted to give up late in my senior year of high school.)
Since you're really not familiar with the school, definitely take time to ask the faculty why they're there (as opposed to elsewhere.) Is it because they're working with So-And-So who is awesome, or because they were denied tenure at Chicago, or because they love to surf, or what.
Most of the people I know and know friends of, who are faculty at SLACs, are there because things didn't go quite right for them at some point between the time they started their PhD program and today. It's not true, I think, of faculty at really good SLACs, but rather of the next group down - and those same schools are often entirely too eager to give full rides to kids with good numbers, just like 3rd tier law schools are and for more or less the same reason.
(Getting a job with a SLAC for undergrad is harder than not, but from what I can tell getting into grad school is not, and a good GPA from an unknown school that gave you a lot of support but isn't well-known is better than a crummy GPA from a massive university where you got lost in the shuffle. It also depends a lot on who you want to work for - the government doesn't care at all, for instance.)
posted by SMPA at 2:29 PM on November 23, 2011
Since you're really not familiar with the school, definitely take time to ask the faculty why they're there (as opposed to elsewhere.) Is it because they're working with So-And-So who is awesome, or because they were denied tenure at Chicago, or because they love to surf, or what.
Most of the people I know and know friends of, who are faculty at SLACs, are there because things didn't go quite right for them at some point between the time they started their PhD program and today. It's not true, I think, of faculty at really good SLACs, but rather of the next group down - and those same schools are often entirely too eager to give full rides to kids with good numbers, just like 3rd tier law schools are and for more or less the same reason.
(Getting a job with a SLAC for undergrad is harder than not, but from what I can tell getting into grad school is not, and a good GPA from an unknown school that gave you a lot of support but isn't well-known is better than a crummy GPA from a massive university where you got lost in the shuffle. It also depends a lot on who you want to work for - the government doesn't care at all, for instance.)
posted by SMPA at 2:29 PM on November 23, 2011
is this school one of those unknown gems?
That's not something that can be determined by a simple campus visit. Every SLAC you visit will extol the virtues of their accessible faculty members and a close-knit student body. A school is an unknown gem if, not having heard of it, the school has students with high SAT scores and a great record of placement at top graduate programs and competitive professions.
Harvey Mudd, Reed, and Pomona are "unknown [to some] gems." For someone from the west coast, Bowdoin is an unknown gem (whereas it's well known in New England). If a school is a "gem", then it's known by "the right people" (graduate school admissions committees, recruiters from prestigious companies, etc.). So I guess the questions to ask is who comes recruiting to campus in the student career office and what graduate programs the students are getting admitted to.
posted by deanc at 2:45 PM on November 23, 2011 [2 favorites]
That's not something that can be determined by a simple campus visit. Every SLAC you visit will extol the virtues of their accessible faculty members and a close-knit student body. A school is an unknown gem if, not having heard of it, the school has students with high SAT scores and a great record of placement at top graduate programs and competitive professions.
Harvey Mudd, Reed, and Pomona are "unknown [to some] gems." For someone from the west coast, Bowdoin is an unknown gem (whereas it's well known in New England). If a school is a "gem", then it's known by "the right people" (graduate school admissions committees, recruiters from prestigious companies, etc.). So I guess the questions to ask is who comes recruiting to campus in the student career office and what graduate programs the students are getting admitted to.
posted by deanc at 2:45 PM on November 23, 2011 [2 favorites]
From Ms. Vegetable:
This actually turned out great, but I'm SO GLAD I went to a school that really encouraged study abroad. I had no idea I wanted to do that until I got there - ask now, not later. Similar for undergrad research. (Which may or may not matter to him.)
Also - consider region of the country - does he want to stay near SLAC? It's more likely to be well-known in its area.
Finally - I went to a school where I was smart, but not the one-and-only, and that was really helpful for me. It was nice not to have to be the one to answer all the questions in class - and maybe that's not an issue being a homeschooler, but whatever. In contrast, I had a friend go to a school where she WAS the one-and-only, big scholarship, etc., and I think she was kind of bored.
posted by a robot made out of meat at 2:55 PM on November 23, 2011
This actually turned out great, but I'm SO GLAD I went to a school that really encouraged study abroad. I had no idea I wanted to do that until I got there - ask now, not later. Similar for undergrad research. (Which may or may not matter to him.)
Also - consider region of the country - does he want to stay near SLAC? It's more likely to be well-known in its area.
Finally - I went to a school where I was smart, but not the one-and-only, and that was really helpful for me. It was nice not to have to be the one to answer all the questions in class - and maybe that's not an issue being a homeschooler, but whatever. In contrast, I had a friend go to a school where she WAS the one-and-only, big scholarship, etc., and I think she was kind of bored.
posted by a robot made out of meat at 2:55 PM on November 23, 2011
I wouldn't over-interpret those NCUR numbers. A high number means that the school is making an attempt to get people to participate in that. A low number means nothing; I plugged in some top-tier places where loads of undergrads are doing meaningful research and got single digits.
posted by a robot made out of meat at 4:59 PM on November 23, 2011
posted by a robot made out of meat at 4:59 PM on November 23, 2011
When your child interviews or interacts with faculty or staff during this visit, he or she needs to ENGAGE during those conversations if you want to turn that scholarship into a full ride.
I believe that in many cases, a student's passion (or at least passion as it is perceived by those doing the interviewing) will carry a lot of weight when it comes to getting the best scholarship.
Fortunately, both of my kids were able to do this.
posted by imjustsaying at 5:02 PM on November 23, 2011
I believe that in many cases, a student's passion (or at least passion as it is perceived by those doing the interviewing) will carry a lot of weight when it comes to getting the best scholarship.
Fortunately, both of my kids were able to do this.
posted by imjustsaying at 5:02 PM on November 23, 2011
If it's at all possible, arrange for him to have several hours alone with current students with you not around. Does this school allow prospective students to spend the night on campus? If so, consider having him stay on campus while you stay in a hotel. There's no better way to get to know a school -- or to impress a school with your interest -- than by seeing what it's like to live there.
Sincerely,
Former prospie at well-regarded small liberal arts college, from which I later graduated.
posted by croutonsupafreak at 8:26 PM on November 23, 2011
Sincerely,
Former prospie at well-regarded small liberal arts college, from which I later graduated.
posted by croutonsupafreak at 8:26 PM on November 23, 2011
Best answer: Okay, so others have the "what should you try to find out about the school" angle covered fairly well. As to what the school should find out about your son: make sure he conveys that this school would be great for him: "I can see myself in x club and in y major and I really really like that this college feels so z to me." Obviously you want to glean as much as you can about the school during your visit, but this isn't the time to be picky (that's in spring! When you have a fistful of acceptance letters and tuition costs to compare! but until then, knowing you have a full ride in the bag is awesome.) I did quite a few of these things last year and I didn't figure out until halfway through the cycle that if schools are going to make generous scholarship offers, they're going to want to make them to students who would be genuinely enthusiastic about going to the school even without the benefit of the scholarship. Schools hate pinning their hopes on prospective students who then opt not to go, and thus, you're far less likely to get the full scholarship if the interviewers sense reluctance on your part.
posted by estlin at 10:40 PM on November 23, 2011
posted by estlin at 10:40 PM on November 23, 2011
If you can, try to squeeze in a visit NOT on an admissions/tour day. You'll often get a much different view of the campus (especially if you go on a Saturday morning).
This. I'm a former campus tour guide & prefrosh host. Admissions rarely, if ever, wanted prospective students staying on Friday or Saturday nights. Try to find out what really happens on weekends. Do a lot of students go back to their hometowns? Is the frat party scene the only thing going on? Does everybody go out in the neighborhood? How's town-gown relations? What does your son really want out of Friday/Saturday nights? (At least get him to think about it. You may or may not have the relationship where you actually talk about his honest answers. My parents were uncomfortable with my going to frat parties when I was a freshman. I expected it, was fine with it, and then moved on to other things for my social life.) Some campuses are eerily quiet late on a Friday or Saturday evening...
posted by knile at 12:59 AM on November 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
This. I'm a former campus tour guide & prefrosh host. Admissions rarely, if ever, wanted prospective students staying on Friday or Saturday nights. Try to find out what really happens on weekends. Do a lot of students go back to their hometowns? Is the frat party scene the only thing going on? Does everybody go out in the neighborhood? How's town-gown relations? What does your son really want out of Friday/Saturday nights? (At least get him to think about it. You may or may not have the relationship where you actually talk about his honest answers. My parents were uncomfortable with my going to frat parties when I was a freshman. I expected it, was fine with it, and then moved on to other things for my social life.) Some campuses are eerily quiet late on a Friday or Saturday evening...
posted by knile at 12:59 AM on November 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
I wish, before I tried going to college, I knew that unless you plan on becoming a doctor, lawyer, or something else requiring detailed qualifications for your field (usually science or education), many employers don't really care if their proposed job matches your _exact_ degree.
College is really hyped up, which puts a lot of pressure on kids. Yes, college opens a -lot- of doors into your future employment, so you should work hard to get a good GPA. But let him know that it's not the end of the world if his life doesn't follow a specific path or if he does happen to fail a class or two. While it can put a strain on his wallet, classes can be retaken.
Other than that, I wish I had gotten out more as a freshman. Being home schooled myself, I found it easy to go back to my room and enjoy my alone time, but sometimes to the exclusivity of remembering, "Oh hey. It's okay to go to a crazy party once in a while." Make friends and have a support network, not only for studying (which turns out to be incredibly helpful in groups) but for when you're feeling homesick, lonely, or just want to enjoy time with other people.
But then, I'm rather introverted.
posted by DisreputableDog at 5:25 AM on November 24, 2011
College is really hyped up, which puts a lot of pressure on kids. Yes, college opens a -lot- of doors into your future employment, so you should work hard to get a good GPA. But let him know that it's not the end of the world if his life doesn't follow a specific path or if he does happen to fail a class or two. While it can put a strain on his wallet, classes can be retaken.
Other than that, I wish I had gotten out more as a freshman. Being home schooled myself, I found it easy to go back to my room and enjoy my alone time, but sometimes to the exclusivity of remembering, "Oh hey. It's okay to go to a crazy party once in a while." Make friends and have a support network, not only for studying (which turns out to be incredibly helpful in groups) but for when you're feeling homesick, lonely, or just want to enjoy time with other people.
But then, I'm rather introverted.
posted by DisreputableDog at 5:25 AM on November 24, 2011
Please pay attention to what people are saying about the career center and maximizing his contacts via the alumni network. I went to a public school where the "career center" literally referred us to what is now the equivalent of monster.com. And those jackballs still call me every year asking me to donate to the school part of the salary they did not help me earn. Little bitter about it, yep.
posted by vignettist at 2:46 PM on November 25, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by vignettist at 2:46 PM on November 25, 2011 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Update: So after playing college admissions director on the drive down, asking him the sorts of questions I thought they might ask in an interview, there was no interview. There was a group session where the college admissions folks observed small groups of 6 or so interacting as they discussed questions that were fed to the group. Then he had a 45 minute interview with one of the History professors, which my son thought was just one of the coolest things ever. It's not often he gets the change to speak in-depth with somebody that can out-geek him in history.
So we'll see what results. I have to say I was more impressed with the school than I expected to be, and my son seemed very comfortable there.
posted by COD at 12:54 PM on December 6, 2011
So we'll see what results. I have to say I was more impressed with the school than I expected to be, and my son seemed very comfortable there.
posted by COD at 12:54 PM on December 6, 2011
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by DoubleLune at 10:36 AM on November 23, 2011