When do you give up pursuing a degree?
October 23, 2011 8:38 PM Subscribe
When do you give up pursuing a degree? I have been attending art college since 2003 and I'm at the point of questioning my desire to get a BFA (special snowflake details inside)
Hi Mefites,
I have seen posts about dropping out of grad programs before, and I looked up and read all the posts I could find about knowing when to give up a dream. I'm not seeing the similarities right now...
In 2003 I embarked on a BFA from the local art college, but because I could not afford to quit work, I did a class every semester through extended studies as a mature student. I finally applied in 2010 - a lot of things conspired against my dream of going back to school every time I was ready.
I always wanted to go to art school. I graduated from a polytechnic because it was cheap, but by 2003, I realized that my diploma wasn't going to get me anywhere. I thought the BFA would enhance my career, but now it seems like it's only delaying it. When I started out, I was at the bottom of my field, now I'm comfortably in the middle of it.
I'm currently a second year student and hope to finish my degree in 2014 or 2015. This semester has been particularly demoralizing - not due to grades though - and for the first time I'm having second thoughts about it. I'm just so tired of going to school and I'm finding myself unusually crabby at the young people who before I found fun and energizing. I feel very withdrawn and isolated in class when before I was a happy participant. I don't feel depressed by the way. There are plenty of good things going on in my life.
My feelings are particularly hurt right now though because as an extended studies student, I wasn't privy to or had access to all the information, grants or bursaries that registered students had. One particular piece of information could have helped me finish my degree years ago and I'm sore about that. The student loan route was just too scary, which is why I didn't take it.
Anyhow...would it be screwy to throw in the towel? I have spent a good chunk of my life pursuing this, giving up summers, weekends, occasionsal periods of sanity and more for the day when I can walk across that stage and get my piece of paper. I actually ran into a student who had been working on her BFA since 2000, so I didn't feel too bad, yet all the same...
I'm going to make a counselling appointment, but I'm sure there are some Mefites who have experienced the same kind of emo school angst. My husband thinks I should stick it out and has always been supportive of my desire to go back to school. I really need some good reasons to stay in school, but at the same time, if one doesn't examine their dream now and then, I suppose that could even be a worse problem :\
Hi Mefites,
I have seen posts about dropping out of grad programs before, and I looked up and read all the posts I could find about knowing when to give up a dream. I'm not seeing the similarities right now...
In 2003 I embarked on a BFA from the local art college, but because I could not afford to quit work, I did a class every semester through extended studies as a mature student. I finally applied in 2010 - a lot of things conspired against my dream of going back to school every time I was ready.
I always wanted to go to art school. I graduated from a polytechnic because it was cheap, but by 2003, I realized that my diploma wasn't going to get me anywhere. I thought the BFA would enhance my career, but now it seems like it's only delaying it. When I started out, I was at the bottom of my field, now I'm comfortably in the middle of it.
I'm currently a second year student and hope to finish my degree in 2014 or 2015. This semester has been particularly demoralizing - not due to grades though - and for the first time I'm having second thoughts about it. I'm just so tired of going to school and I'm finding myself unusually crabby at the young people who before I found fun and energizing. I feel very withdrawn and isolated in class when before I was a happy participant. I don't feel depressed by the way. There are plenty of good things going on in my life.
My feelings are particularly hurt right now though because as an extended studies student, I wasn't privy to or had access to all the information, grants or bursaries that registered students had. One particular piece of information could have helped me finish my degree years ago and I'm sore about that. The student loan route was just too scary, which is why I didn't take it.
Anyhow...would it be screwy to throw in the towel? I have spent a good chunk of my life pursuing this, giving up summers, weekends, occasionsal periods of sanity and more for the day when I can walk across that stage and get my piece of paper. I actually ran into a student who had been working on her BFA since 2000, so I didn't feel too bad, yet all the same...
I'm going to make a counselling appointment, but I'm sure there are some Mefites who have experienced the same kind of emo school angst. My husband thinks I should stick it out and has always been supportive of my desire to go back to school. I really need some good reasons to stay in school, but at the same time, if one doesn't examine their dream now and then, I suppose that could even be a worse problem :\
Since you were a 'mature' student, does that mean you never went through the transfer student matriculant process? Did any of your courses from your polytechnic degree transfer? Did you ever ask if they would?
The reason I as is because I am surprised that, 8 years of on and off classes later, you are still considered a second year student. I know you've probably already looked into it, but make sure all of the classes you have already paid for are counting for everything they should.
Finally - is there a BA route that's more flexible than the BFA? Sometimes those BFA programs are way too linear and structured and it's no wonder that a non-traditional student such as yourself would have trouble finishing it in a reasonable amount of time.
This is to say that I do believe that a bachelor's degree is a necessary piece of paper to have in today's world. I don't know about your profession, but I should think that not having one could limit future positions you apply for. If you're already a good chunk of the way there, then it's better to have than not have I say.
posted by Think_Long at 8:56 PM on October 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
The reason I as is because I am surprised that, 8 years of on and off classes later, you are still considered a second year student. I know you've probably already looked into it, but make sure all of the classes you have already paid for are counting for everything they should.
Finally - is there a BA route that's more flexible than the BFA? Sometimes those BFA programs are way too linear and structured and it's no wonder that a non-traditional student such as yourself would have trouble finishing it in a reasonable amount of time.
This is to say that I do believe that a bachelor's degree is a necessary piece of paper to have in today's world. I don't know about your profession, but I should think that not having one could limit future positions you apply for. If you're already a good chunk of the way there, then it's better to have than not have I say.
posted by Think_Long at 8:56 PM on October 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
It sounds like to me that you're starting to get tired of having been in school for so long, but you don't want to let go of all of the time investment that you've put into it without having something to show for it.
Considering that you've been in class since 2003, I'm pretty sure you've got a lot of assorted credits; what I would do is just list them all and figure out the degree that you're closest to finishing. Some BAs (at least from where I hail from) have a surprisingly low number of requirements and you might actually only be just a year away from completing the entire thing.
What your bachelor's degree is important for is entering a profession (in the case of most jobs anyway). That is, the only reason why employers are more apt to hire you is that it demonstrates that you've had the responsibility to actually see a degree through to the end rather than the special expertise that the degree demonstrates. Once you've sunk your claws into one opportunity through your bachelor's degree, the rest naturally follows. Your degree isn't as pivotal in getting to where you want to be in life as you think it might be, there's always alternative pathways.
At least, that's how it worked for someone I know. She got a degree in sociology - became a secretary for a company, did so well that she got promoted to a marketing position, ended up starting her own firm, and ended up getting hired as a consultant and then a permanent employee for a big company. And they never even looked at the fact she didn't have a marketing degree.
posted by Conspire at 9:07 PM on October 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
Considering that you've been in class since 2003, I'm pretty sure you've got a lot of assorted credits; what I would do is just list them all and figure out the degree that you're closest to finishing. Some BAs (at least from where I hail from) have a surprisingly low number of requirements and you might actually only be just a year away from completing the entire thing.
What your bachelor's degree is important for is entering a profession (in the case of most jobs anyway). That is, the only reason why employers are more apt to hire you is that it demonstrates that you've had the responsibility to actually see a degree through to the end rather than the special expertise that the degree demonstrates. Once you've sunk your claws into one opportunity through your bachelor's degree, the rest naturally follows. Your degree isn't as pivotal in getting to where you want to be in life as you think it might be, there's always alternative pathways.
At least, that's how it worked for someone I know. She got a degree in sociology - became a secretary for a company, did so well that she got promoted to a marketing position, ended up starting her own firm, and ended up getting hired as a consultant and then a permanent employee for a big company. And they never even looked at the fact she didn't have a marketing degree.
posted by Conspire at 9:07 PM on October 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: You have given no reason to finish your degree except stubbornness.
Heh, yes, I am stubborn. I guess in some small way the BFA contains some part of worth to me. My family was poor and part of me is still sad about not being able to attend university and getting a "real" education when I was younger. I probably need to let go of this.
I have never heard the term "sunk cost" before. That makes it clearer, thank you.
Since you were a 'mature' student, does that mean you never went through the transfer student matriculant process? Did any of your courses from your polytechnic degree transfer? Did you ever ask if they would?
Dang, I should have mentioned that. Amazingly I had two courses that transferred over for six credits.
The reason I as is because I am surprised that, 8 years of on and off classes later, you are still considered a second year student. I know you've probably already looked into it, but make sure all of the classes you have already paid for are counting for everything they should.
The college is flexible enough with the year that students are in because so many people come through the extended studies program. I'm not sure my maturity counts for much, because I had to take an 12 hour mandatory orientation after I applied. I was pretty mad about that and didn't hesitate to express that to the student experience head.
Considering that you've been in class since 2003, I'm pretty sure you've got a lot of assorted credits; what I would do is just list them all and figure out the degree that you're closest to finishing. Some BAs (at least from where I hail from) have a surprisingly low number of requirements and you might actually only be just a year away from completing the entire thing.
I should have mentioned that as well. I need 60 credits to declare a major and 120 to graduate. I will have 57 by the end of the spring term.
The college only offers fine art degrees. I will probably spend some time with the online transfer guide; the silly thing is, if I had simply gone for a bachelor of arts from Alberta's distance college, I would have a BA by now :\ I really enjoy art and it would be a shame to miss out on being taught by some of Alberta's best artists, but perhaps the sanity check is a good one :-)
posted by Calzephyr at 9:20 PM on October 23, 2011
Heh, yes, I am stubborn. I guess in some small way the BFA contains some part of worth to me. My family was poor and part of me is still sad about not being able to attend university and getting a "real" education when I was younger. I probably need to let go of this.
I have never heard the term "sunk cost" before. That makes it clearer, thank you.
Since you were a 'mature' student, does that mean you never went through the transfer student matriculant process? Did any of your courses from your polytechnic degree transfer? Did you ever ask if they would?
Dang, I should have mentioned that. Amazingly I had two courses that transferred over for six credits.
The reason I as is because I am surprised that, 8 years of on and off classes later, you are still considered a second year student. I know you've probably already looked into it, but make sure all of the classes you have already paid for are counting for everything they should.
The college is flexible enough with the year that students are in because so many people come through the extended studies program. I'm not sure my maturity counts for much, because I had to take an 12 hour mandatory orientation after I applied. I was pretty mad about that and didn't hesitate to express that to the student experience head.
Considering that you've been in class since 2003, I'm pretty sure you've got a lot of assorted credits; what I would do is just list them all and figure out the degree that you're closest to finishing. Some BAs (at least from where I hail from) have a surprisingly low number of requirements and you might actually only be just a year away from completing the entire thing.
I should have mentioned that as well. I need 60 credits to declare a major and 120 to graduate. I will have 57 by the end of the spring term.
The college only offers fine art degrees. I will probably spend some time with the online transfer guide; the silly thing is, if I had simply gone for a bachelor of arts from Alberta's distance college, I would have a BA by now :\ I really enjoy art and it would be a shame to miss out on being taught by some of Alberta's best artists, but perhaps the sanity check is a good one :-)
posted by Calzephyr at 9:20 PM on October 23, 2011
Best answer: Is it possible for you to transfer to a college/university with more flexible requirements? I would say that a degree is only worth finishing if you can do it within the next year or two. From what you have been saying, it sounds like you've spent WAY too much time in school and it's holding you back from the rest of your life.
You also say that you're in the middle of your field by now... If that's the case, perhaps it won't be too much of an issue to just simply drop off and focus solely on your career! As I said before: the major asset of a degree is that it helps you break into a field, rather than the specialized expertise it teaches you - a BA can only stuff so much practical knowledge into your head. If you've already got a good deal of experience, I think you can definitely make it out there without formal educational credentials.
Also, should you choose that path: while you might not have a paper to show for your degree, you shouldn't view your time at college to be a complete sunken cost. You've gained valuable organizational habits, communication skills, probably managed to make at least a few good connections, and so forth. A degree might be important to an employer, but the experiences are what count for you as a person; if you're wringed all of the experiences that you're able to get out of school already, is there any point in sticking around?
posted by Conspire at 9:32 PM on October 23, 2011 [2 favorites]
You also say that you're in the middle of your field by now... If that's the case, perhaps it won't be too much of an issue to just simply drop off and focus solely on your career! As I said before: the major asset of a degree is that it helps you break into a field, rather than the specialized expertise it teaches you - a BA can only stuff so much practical knowledge into your head. If you've already got a good deal of experience, I think you can definitely make it out there without formal educational credentials.
Also, should you choose that path: while you might not have a paper to show for your degree, you shouldn't view your time at college to be a complete sunken cost. You've gained valuable organizational habits, communication skills, probably managed to make at least a few good connections, and so forth. A degree might be important to an employer, but the experiences are what count for you as a person; if you're wringed all of the experiences that you're able to get out of school already, is there any point in sticking around?
posted by Conspire at 9:32 PM on October 23, 2011 [2 favorites]
Have you looked at transferring the credits to Athabasca then? Would you be able to finish faster? I think you should aim to complete some sort of degree, you never know when your "dream job" will appear and the degree may make a difference in getting it. Also, you might want to get your MLS or be offered a chance to get the tuition covered, we keep getting promised there will be a sudden gap in library management.
All the setbacks sound really disappointing, and if you leave now you may feel defeated by the system. If you aim to complete (in whatever way suits you best) you will be so proud of yourself for persevering in the face of adversity.
posted by saucysault at 9:39 PM on October 23, 2011
All the setbacks sound really disappointing, and if you leave now you may feel defeated by the system. If you aim to complete (in whatever way suits you best) you will be so proud of yourself for persevering in the face of adversity.
posted by saucysault at 9:39 PM on October 23, 2011
From what I know of the arts, design, etc. field is that having a BFA counts for very very little. An MFA is the minimum to open any doors that require a degree, you should concentrate on building a portfolio instead. In the meantime you can portray it as having "taken a break" from school so as not to be pigeonholed into the "can't finish things" category. And by the time it becomes obvious that you don't really intend to go back you have more than enough experience to completely offset that.
You might discover after some time away that you do want to return. That's what happened to me with my non-art degree (I took a year off with a strong possibility of never coming back, ended up going back to finish things, but this time on my terms). But give non-school a chance, it will likely make you happier, and will let you evaluate this choice without this fatalistic "either I give it up forever or not" approach.
posted by anateus at 9:40 PM on October 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
You might discover after some time away that you do want to return. That's what happened to me with my non-art degree (I took a year off with a strong possibility of never coming back, ended up going back to finish things, but this time on my terms). But give non-school a chance, it will likely make you happier, and will let you evaluate this choice without this fatalistic "either I give it up forever or not" approach.
posted by anateus at 9:40 PM on October 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: I'm really liking your advice Conspire :-) I have really enjoyed my time at the art college and I have learned a lot. I have learned how to combine my field, records management, with art and I see myself combining the two. Artists are terrible at being organized. I don't need to break into my field at all. You know, that's possibly it too...I have reached my level cap for experience.
Saucy...as well...So many of the classes are hands-on that they don't transfer well. I just spent some time with the online transfer guide and basically what I have will possibly cover first year courses at Athabasca University or the UofC. Eh...Weaving just doesn't have an equivalent. I really thought more would transfer.
Yes - my MLS was a consideration. My library technician degree is only really good for toilet paper. The local public library system does not really recognize my education, and there is a lot more money to be made in records management. Sad but true!
posted by Calzephyr at 9:43 PM on October 23, 2011
Saucy...as well...So many of the classes are hands-on that they don't transfer well. I just spent some time with the online transfer guide and basically what I have will possibly cover first year courses at Athabasca University or the UofC. Eh...Weaving just doesn't have an equivalent. I really thought more would transfer.
Yes - my MLS was a consideration. My library technician degree is only really good for toilet paper. The local public library system does not really recognize my education, and there is a lot more money to be made in records management. Sad but true!
posted by Calzephyr at 9:43 PM on October 23, 2011
Response by poster: Oh anateus! Yes, I'm feeling rather fatalistic right now indeed. Yup, I have been sacrificing my art practice for some time now. School has been a drain and whenever April comes around, I feel very uncreative.
posted by Calzephyr at 9:44 PM on October 23, 2011
posted by Calzephyr at 9:44 PM on October 23, 2011
My feelings are particularly hurt right now though because as an extended studies student, I wasn't privy to or had access to all the information, grants or bursaries that registered students had. One particular piece of information could have helped me finish my degree years ago and I'm sore about that. The student loan route was just too scary, which is why I didn't take it.
This happened and it sucks. However, I wouldn't let this steal a degree from me. If you let of the justifiable anger about this, would you still want the degree?
posted by 26.2 at 10:03 PM on October 23, 2011
This happened and it sucks. However, I wouldn't let this steal a degree from me. If you let of the justifiable anger about this, would you still want the degree?
posted by 26.2 at 10:03 PM on October 23, 2011
My family was poor and part of me is still sad about not being able to attend university and getting a "real" education
And yet you chose to go to ART school? Over the course of a decade? I don't mean to sound harsh, but I think you are over-romanticizing the influence of this particular factor. You need to let go of this hang-up about success and education, it has gained you little and cost you much.
If you feel you have a lot to prove because of your upbringing, then there are a lot of other things you could be doing with your time to improve your circumstances.
posted by hermitosis at 11:34 PM on October 23, 2011
And yet you chose to go to ART school? Over the course of a decade? I don't mean to sound harsh, but I think you are over-romanticizing the influence of this particular factor. You need to let go of this hang-up about success and education, it has gained you little and cost you much.
If you feel you have a lot to prove because of your upbringing, then there are a lot of other things you could be doing with your time to improve your circumstances.
posted by hermitosis at 11:34 PM on October 23, 2011
Best answer: Contact Athabasca and Thomson Rivers and some other distance education providers. Note your mature status and work experience. Ask about prior learning assessments. (In fact, you might also try this where you are going to school now.) Ask what the shortest path to a degree is. While the online transfer tools may be of some help, actually talking to an advisor might help you find more means of getting credits. For example, would your current program allow you to transfer credits? You might be able to go sign up for a summer intensive course (or similar) and get through faster. You could also possibly do a directed studies program, which might pull from some of your work.
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 11:36 PM on October 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 11:36 PM on October 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
Also, looking at your work online I think you would be more successful and/or motivated as an artist exploring on your own. You seem to explore a wide range of interests and skills, and I doubt your commitment to making art is just going to dry up and blow away if you stop going to school.
posted by hermitosis at 11:39 PM on October 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by hermitosis at 11:39 PM on October 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
Here, take a look at this page on Athabasca's site: http://priorlearning.athabascau.ca/index.php. Their PLAR FAQ also describes your situation. http://priorlearning.athabascau.ca/PLAR-faqs.php#cis . You can combine the PLAR with transfer credits. Make sure you talk to an advisor - you may be closer to completing something than you think.
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 11:45 PM on October 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 11:45 PM on October 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Forgive me if I'm wrong, but you sound more like you're tired and exasperated rather than convinced you don't want a BFA. Given that you're an artist, a BFA is a good fit for you -- far better than an on-line BA, which have considerably less value, particularly in your field.
Have you talked to an advisor? More importantly, have you talked to your instructors about your situation? I started out in art school (lo these years ago, long before I went into grad school in another discipline) and I remember that there were always a number of older female students that the school saw as "hobbyists" as opposed to serious artists. Can you talk to someone and make it clear that you 1) have real professional aspirations and 2) want to finish the degree before you lose all your marbles? MAKE SOME NOISE, and then tell them that you want to apply for grants/funding/scholarships/work-study and anything else that's available to enable you to finish faster. And think about registering in the full-time program -- if you had the chance to finish quickly and with full or partial funding, would it be worth registering full time?
posted by jrochest at 12:16 AM on October 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
Have you talked to an advisor? More importantly, have you talked to your instructors about your situation? I started out in art school (lo these years ago, long before I went into grad school in another discipline) and I remember that there were always a number of older female students that the school saw as "hobbyists" as opposed to serious artists. Can you talk to someone and make it clear that you 1) have real professional aspirations and 2) want to finish the degree before you lose all your marbles? MAKE SOME NOISE, and then tell them that you want to apply for grants/funding/scholarships/work-study and anything else that's available to enable you to finish faster. And think about registering in the full-time program -- if you had the chance to finish quickly and with full or partial funding, would it be worth registering full time?
posted by jrochest at 12:16 AM on October 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
And I think the "OMG you went to ART school??!!" responses are a little off: if you want to work as an artist, it's the best education you can get and one you need. And art school is real professional/vocational training for a particular and specialized skill set.
posted by jrochest at 12:20 AM on October 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by jrochest at 12:20 AM on October 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
i think the advice to talk to an adviser (and a financial aid adviser - they won't necessarily be the same person) and find out what it would take to finish doing more or less full time - get it done.
What do you aim to do with art? How might it change with a degree? These days the MFA is necessary to teach at the collegiate level but is no longer the clear entree to galleries that it once was. If you are aiming to work as an artist I do think it is worth finishing. But if you expect to mainly focus in other areas getting a BA and getting done might be smarter. It is certainly worth getting a degree out of this if you can do so without ending up loaded with debt.
Full time artist with BFA (and unrelated masters work) here. A BFA is certainly not a guaranteed income but better to have finished it if you aim to work in the field. That said, it's not clear to me where you want to go with this in terms of your work. Much of your work on flickr is very illustration-y - have you looked at doing kids' books or magazine illustration? The humorous pieces have a lot of charm and lots of possibilities to my mind. Talking to advisers about what you're thinking of actually doing with your work will help you clarify whether you should invest in finishing and how you should focus it.
posted by leslies at 5:29 AM on October 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
What do you aim to do with art? How might it change with a degree? These days the MFA is necessary to teach at the collegiate level but is no longer the clear entree to galleries that it once was. If you are aiming to work as an artist I do think it is worth finishing. But if you expect to mainly focus in other areas getting a BA and getting done might be smarter. It is certainly worth getting a degree out of this if you can do so without ending up loaded with debt.
Full time artist with BFA (and unrelated masters work) here. A BFA is certainly not a guaranteed income but better to have finished it if you aim to work in the field. That said, it's not clear to me where you want to go with this in terms of your work. Much of your work on flickr is very illustration-y - have you looked at doing kids' books or magazine illustration? The humorous pieces have a lot of charm and lots of possibilities to my mind. Talking to advisers about what you're thinking of actually doing with your work will help you clarify whether you should invest in finishing and how you should focus it.
posted by leslies at 5:29 AM on October 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: And I think the "OMG you went to ART school??!!" responses are a little off: if you want to work as an artist, it's the best education you can get and one you need. And art school is real professional/vocational training for a particular and specialized skill set.
It's very specialized and my school is a pretty good one. The relationships one makes there are almost as important as the education itself.
Thanks Chaussette...I never thought of that!
And yet you chose to go to ART school? Over the course of a decade?
I also considered a BSc, but I really don't have the math for it. A BFA seemed at the time the straightest path to a higher education.
I don't mean to sound harsh, but I think you are over-romanticizing the influence of this particular factor. You need to let go of this hang-up about success and education, it has gained you little and cost you much.
I know...I want that piece of paper that says I'm an Approved Smart Person. It's so hard to balance what I have learned from art college. I gained an appreciation for artsian jewelry because I sucked at soldering links together. I learned about artists I probably would not have found on my own. I went to Linux club and had a fun time. Painting in millions of tiny boxes helped with colour theory. Trying to learn some of these skills on my own probably wouldn't have happened without college. No education is really ever wasted, even if the plan changes along the way.
I am really appreciating everyone's responses. I knew you guys would see things that I couldn't :-) I have to drag my butt off to weaving class but I'll be back to check in later!
posted by Calzephyr at 5:57 AM on October 24, 2011
It's very specialized and my school is a pretty good one. The relationships one makes there are almost as important as the education itself.
Thanks Chaussette...I never thought of that!
And yet you chose to go to ART school? Over the course of a decade?
I also considered a BSc, but I really don't have the math for it. A BFA seemed at the time the straightest path to a higher education.
I don't mean to sound harsh, but I think you are over-romanticizing the influence of this particular factor. You need to let go of this hang-up about success and education, it has gained you little and cost you much.
I know...I want that piece of paper that says I'm an Approved Smart Person. It's so hard to balance what I have learned from art college. I gained an appreciation for artsian jewelry because I sucked at soldering links together. I learned about artists I probably would not have found on my own. I went to Linux club and had a fun time. Painting in millions of tiny boxes helped with colour theory. Trying to learn some of these skills on my own probably wouldn't have happened without college. No education is really ever wasted, even if the plan changes along the way.
I am really appreciating everyone's responses. I knew you guys would see things that I couldn't :-) I have to drag my butt off to weaving class but I'll be back to check in later!
posted by Calzephyr at 5:57 AM on October 24, 2011
Response by poster: The earliest guidance counsellor appointment I can get is next Monday, so I'll have to wait and see.
posted by Calzephyr at 7:33 AM on October 24, 2011
posted by Calzephyr at 7:33 AM on October 24, 2011
Response by poster: I am looking at the Thomson Rivers and Athabasca University. The PLAR program costs $750 at each institution. I'll see what the outcome is of meeting with the guidance counsellor is and go from there. I'm hoping I can be grandfathered in. I like that the PLAR program accounts for work experience. I was unable to determine from my school's website if they have anything like that.
Leslies...that's the thing, I do have a lack of focus with my work. I love illustration, but I also love textiles and paper. I can't seem to focus on just one thing. I did hope that school would help me figure this out, but so far it hasn't. Thanks for taking a peek btw.
Jrochest...oh yes, I know those ladies well! They always love to parent me :-) I really did not want to be one of those older ladies!
I'm finding it hard to take more than three classes at a time, and with at least 17 classes to go, I don't know. I also accidentally made myself off track due to not anticipating unemployment - I don't have a pre-req for third year.
But I feel as if I have more options now thanks to the Mefites, so I'll wait a week and hope for the best next Monday. Thank you again!
posted by Calzephyr at 5:57 PM on October 24, 2011
Leslies...that's the thing, I do have a lack of focus with my work. I love illustration, but I also love textiles and paper. I can't seem to focus on just one thing. I did hope that school would help me figure this out, but so far it hasn't. Thanks for taking a peek btw.
Jrochest...oh yes, I know those ladies well! They always love to parent me :-) I really did not want to be one of those older ladies!
I'm finding it hard to take more than three classes at a time, and with at least 17 classes to go, I don't know. I also accidentally made myself off track due to not anticipating unemployment - I don't have a pre-req for third year.
But I feel as if I have more options now thanks to the Mefites, so I'll wait a week and hope for the best next Monday. Thank you again!
posted by Calzephyr at 5:57 PM on October 24, 2011
$750 sounds like a bargain, from both a tuition and time standpoint.
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 8:20 PM on October 24, 2011
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 8:20 PM on October 24, 2011
Response by poster: It really does - but it seems like the process can take a while. It's looking like TRU is a better bet since they have a fine arts program and AU does not. That was an awesome suggestion!
posted by Calzephyr at 8:23 PM on October 24, 2011
posted by Calzephyr at 8:23 PM on October 24, 2011
I had a boss who did the BFA (or whatever it is called) through TRU, back when it was called the Open University.
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 8:50 PM on October 24, 2011
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 8:50 PM on October 24, 2011
Response by poster: Here are some points my friends are making. If I realized that, as jrochest mentioned, even pondering dropping out would spring people into action, I would have done it sooner. The culture of "staying in school" is strong and generally I would feel this way too.
School is really feeling like a bad fit at a workplace.
One friend who dropped out of an Athasbasca program told me she did so because she had spent 10 years on it and hadn't even got to the halfway point, which is about where I am. She seemed to think I was close to graduating though as she told me to stick with it :-)
There are a lot of "This was your dream, stick with it" supporters. I feel like one's dream is not allowed to change :\ In that regard, no one really seems to hear what I am saying or acknowledging how I feel. People who were able to do their education in the allotted four years don't know what it's like to stretch it out over eight or more.
A local artist friend of mine feels that opting out of a BFA would limit my chances for grants down the road, which I kinda of knew already.
One of the problems with art school is that it's fighting against a constant reality distortion field. The organization and faculty gives the impression that "You too can be a famous artist!" without ever mentioning how bleak it can be. The problem with this particular art college is that it realized too late that its grads are not getting jobs in the "cultural industry" so they do try better to teach grant writing. One teacher I had, the best teacher ever, graduated in 2004 and only he and another lady from his graduating class are actually working in the arts.
Now that I have thought about it, there were several wake ups along the way - such as the lack of arts related employment in Calgary. I also went to an exhibition this past summer which showed the reality of trying to get into exhibit space - a woman saved all her rejection letters from the past 10 years. The reality, there in black and white, is that the demand far outstrips the supply or at least the grants an organization can get for artists. The typical letter mentioned that there were hundreds of applicants for less than 10 spots in an artist program or exhibition.
I am trying to find the truths of the situation...and balance it against the expectations of others. It is hard. I want to make the best decision possible given that I often did not have enough information in the past from the institution to make better decisions in the past.
posted by Calzephyr at 5:33 AM on October 26, 2011
School is really feeling like a bad fit at a workplace.
One friend who dropped out of an Athasbasca program told me she did so because she had spent 10 years on it and hadn't even got to the halfway point, which is about where I am. She seemed to think I was close to graduating though as she told me to stick with it :-)
There are a lot of "This was your dream, stick with it" supporters. I feel like one's dream is not allowed to change :\ In that regard, no one really seems to hear what I am saying or acknowledging how I feel. People who were able to do their education in the allotted four years don't know what it's like to stretch it out over eight or more.
A local artist friend of mine feels that opting out of a BFA would limit my chances for grants down the road, which I kinda of knew already.
One of the problems with art school is that it's fighting against a constant reality distortion field. The organization and faculty gives the impression that "You too can be a famous artist!" without ever mentioning how bleak it can be. The problem with this particular art college is that it realized too late that its grads are not getting jobs in the "cultural industry" so they do try better to teach grant writing. One teacher I had, the best teacher ever, graduated in 2004 and only he and another lady from his graduating class are actually working in the arts.
Now that I have thought about it, there were several wake ups along the way - such as the lack of arts related employment in Calgary. I also went to an exhibition this past summer which showed the reality of trying to get into exhibit space - a woman saved all her rejection letters from the past 10 years. The reality, there in black and white, is that the demand far outstrips the supply or at least the grants an organization can get for artists. The typical letter mentioned that there were hundreds of applicants for less than 10 spots in an artist program or exhibition.
I am trying to find the truths of the situation...and balance it against the expectations of others. It is hard. I want to make the best decision possible given that I often did not have enough information in the past from the institution to make better decisions in the past.
posted by Calzephyr at 5:33 AM on October 26, 2011
Best answer: Ok to address some of your latest points. The art world has changed a lot in the last few years and not entirely in ways that make it easier - not that it's ever been easy to make a living. In the US there are a pretty small number of grants to individual artists as opposed to arts organizations. I don't know what the grant climate is like in Canada. Of the artists I know who are making a living as full time artists most do a mix of things: teach, sell work, work in an arts-related area like working for an arts organization, graphic design, etc. One can ALWAYS find places to show one's work and make it the core of a rewarding life but one that pays the bills is much harder. My art school experience was a long time ago but at the time the institution in question never raised the ugly issue of how one was going to eat, let alone find venues to show one's work. They're better about that now but it's a very real issue for most of us.
You're obviously aware of this and I see that you've listed lots of work on ArtFire. From what you've said about your school it sounds like finishing somewhere else would make a lot more sense since they do not seem to be oriented towards getting done and making a career.
In terms of focus (and I say this as someone with several very different bodies of work) I think you have to be self-disciplined about what works for you personally and from a business standpoint. There's a lot of pressure on artists to produce a consistent body of work and it truly is essential in finding venues in which to show. At the same time, most artists do multiple things and you just have to find a coherent way to balance it in terms of what gives you joy, what you are able to show and what you plain old have time to do when juggling it with what pays the bills and the rest of your life. This got longer than intended - feel free to mefi-mail me!
posted by leslies at 8:55 AM on October 26, 2011 [1 favorite]
You're obviously aware of this and I see that you've listed lots of work on ArtFire. From what you've said about your school it sounds like finishing somewhere else would make a lot more sense since they do not seem to be oriented towards getting done and making a career.
In terms of focus (and I say this as someone with several very different bodies of work) I think you have to be self-disciplined about what works for you personally and from a business standpoint. There's a lot of pressure on artists to produce a consistent body of work and it truly is essential in finding venues in which to show. At the same time, most artists do multiple things and you just have to find a coherent way to balance it in terms of what gives you joy, what you are able to show and what you plain old have time to do when juggling it with what pays the bills and the rest of your life. This got longer than intended - feel free to mefi-mail me!
posted by leslies at 8:55 AM on October 26, 2011 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: I am unsure of the granting climate here, but I know that it shrinks ever year. Alberta Foundation for the Arts Grants, of which I did apply for one to pay for this year of school, come from lottery money, not tax dollars.
It's a shame that they sort of kick students out the door and then say "Figure it out yourselves!" Some classes don't emphasize attendance at all...I was trying to counsel one young man that the attendance part of this class is the easiest part of his grade he'll ever earn, so show up on time!
At the same time, nobody tells students that it will take decades to develop their career path.
I do Christmas sales every year and it's a goal that I spend all year working towards. I hardly sell anything online, but do it just because. My photography has proved popular with local folks.
Thank you again for your thoughtful answer leslies. I appreciate your been there, done that insights :-) It's funny - I think I have what I set out to gain oddly enough. I will probably memail you down the road - the guidance counsellor seems like a nice chap and used the word "explore" a lot in his email. I really need to explore instead of a knee jerk answer.
posted by Calzephyr at 5:27 AM on October 27, 2011
It's a shame that they sort of kick students out the door and then say "Figure it out yourselves!" Some classes don't emphasize attendance at all...I was trying to counsel one young man that the attendance part of this class is the easiest part of his grade he'll ever earn, so show up on time!
At the same time, nobody tells students that it will take decades to develop their career path.
I do Christmas sales every year and it's a goal that I spend all year working towards. I hardly sell anything online, but do it just because. My photography has proved popular with local folks.
Thank you again for your thoughtful answer leslies. I appreciate your been there, done that insights :-) It's funny - I think I have what I set out to gain oddly enough. I will probably memail you down the road - the guidance counsellor seems like a nice chap and used the word "explore" a lot in his email. I really need to explore instead of a knee jerk answer.
posted by Calzephyr at 5:27 AM on October 27, 2011
Response by poster: Hi peeps, my decision is just about made - I will probably register for TRU and finish my degree that way. The guidance counsellor suggested taking a break and returning when I could find my enthuasism for school again, which I thought was very thoughtful of him. Thanks again for all your thoughts and help!
posted by Calzephyr at 8:51 PM on November 1, 2011
posted by Calzephyr at 8:51 PM on November 1, 2011
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by saeculorum at 8:52 PM on October 23, 2011 [1 favorite]