New engine or new car?
October 5, 2011 12:34 PM Subscribe
Antifreeze burned up in car yet no leak. White smoke billowing out only one day. Cannot recreate. Mechanic thinks possible head gasket blown. New engine or new (used) car?
Well just my luck (and rhymes with it too). My 106k Maxima (which I LOVE) had white smoke billowing out of it this weekend. Turned it off and restarted it, it didn't do it again. Got an oil change just to be safe. No one said boo about anything. Mechanic said that my antifreeze is totally gone--bone dry yet no leak in the car. He can't recreate the white smoke billowing. He said IF it is a blown head gasket then it will require a new engine. I have to get rear breaks done ($290) and a new engine would cost no more than $2,500. So...is it worth it on a 106k mile car? Or is it time to take it in for a trade-in. Before this happened KBB said at best $6k--which is awesome to me. But now? Not sure what I would get for it.
I was thinking possible a newer Honda CRV under 20k miles on it.
Well just my luck (and rhymes with it too). My 106k Maxima (which I LOVE) had white smoke billowing out of it this weekend. Turned it off and restarted it, it didn't do it again. Got an oil change just to be safe. No one said boo about anything. Mechanic said that my antifreeze is totally gone--bone dry yet no leak in the car. He can't recreate the white smoke billowing. He said IF it is a blown head gasket then it will require a new engine. I have to get rear breaks done ($290) and a new engine would cost no more than $2,500. So...is it worth it on a 106k mile car? Or is it time to take it in for a trade-in. Before this happened KBB said at best $6k--which is awesome to me. But now? Not sure what I would get for it.
I was thinking possible a newer Honda CRV under 20k miles on it.
Blown head gasket, almost certainly.
Were it my Jeep, I'd pick up a junkyard engine, have it rebuilt, and go from there. I love my Jeep (99 XJ, for the win!), but it's as much a project car and hobby as anything; if my Camry's engine blew, I'd replace the Camry, not the engine.
If you feel similarly about your Maxima, do the same. If it's just a car, replace it.
posted by ellF at 12:42 PM on October 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
Were it my Jeep, I'd pick up a junkyard engine, have it rebuilt, and go from there. I love my Jeep (99 XJ, for the win!), but it's as much a project car and hobby as anything; if my Camry's engine blew, I'd replace the Camry, not the engine.
If you feel similarly about your Maxima, do the same. If it's just a car, replace it.
posted by ellF at 12:42 PM on October 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Didn't get the full details yet beyond the time it takes to get to the head gasket. He's a little stumped at why there is no coolant yet no leak and why no white smoke is billowing out anymore if I blew a gasket. He wants to start it cold to see if it does it again. So friggen weird.
DH said "just get a new gasket". We are asking a 2nd opinion mechanic although I do trust the one I have.
I technically should also get my ABS fixed/reconnected but since I don't "need" it, we disengaged it. So this car is starting to need things.
posted by stormpooper at 12:43 PM on October 5, 2011
DH said "just get a new gasket". We are asking a 2nd opinion mechanic although I do trust the one I have.
I technically should also get my ABS fixed/reconnected but since I don't "need" it, we disengaged it. So this car is starting to need things.
posted by stormpooper at 12:43 PM on October 5, 2011
Response by poster: @elf. for me it was no car payment and it was the nicest car I've owned. I know it won't last forever .Just timing blows. I was hoping to get another 5 years out of no car payment. I just don't know if now at 106k miles if this is the start of repair after repair----breaks, head gasket/engine, ABS, plugs---what else is going to go?
posted by stormpooper at 12:44 PM on October 5, 2011
posted by stormpooper at 12:44 PM on October 5, 2011
How can your anti-freeze be gone without the temperature gauge maxing?
Fill it up again with distilled water and antifreeze and see if the level drops.
Do it yourself. Don't get your 'mechanic' to do it. This all sounds kinda fishy.
Check the temp. gauge often.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 1:04 PM on October 5, 2011
Fill it up again with distilled water and antifreeze and see if the level drops.
Do it yourself. Don't get your 'mechanic' to do it. This all sounds kinda fishy.
Check the temp. gauge often.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 1:04 PM on October 5, 2011
He wants to start it cold to see if it does it again.The first step to diagnosing a blown head gasket is usually a compression test, I think -- not "let's see if we can make it burn more antifreeze."
posted by Doofus Magoo at 1:04 PM on October 5, 2011 [4 favorites]
Sometimes on cars with aluminum heads by the time the engine overheats enough to blow the head gasket the heads will warp as well. when you take the price of heads and the labor of basically taking the top of the motor off it can end up being cheaper to get a new/remanufactured motor.
A few things you can look at before you commit to putting in a new motor or scrapping the car; Look at your oil both through the oil pour spout and on the dipstick. if it looks like a chocolate milkshake then there is definitely coolant in the combustion chamber. Also watch your coolant level a most importantly your coolant temp. a car with a blown head gasket won't be able to regulate coolant temps as well as a one whose head gasket is fine. You can have a minor leak and not have any issues for years/thousands of miles. I had a ford that I drove for the better part of 10K miles with a dodgy HG, with the oil looking like a chocolate malt the entire time.
As for getting a new motor you can look at it a few different ways. 100K is nothing on a car made in the last 20 years. My truck has 115K, and my wife's has 170K miles. Look at how much your monthly payment will be, and make sure you include having full coverage insurance. I'm sure you'll find that a new motor and the brakes will be less than a year's worth of payments, and you should be good to go for years. As long as the rest of the car is in good running order I'd get a remanufactured motor with a warranty and keep on rolling, payment free for another 100K miles easy. Good Luck.
posted by chosemerveilleux at 1:28 PM on October 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
A few things you can look at before you commit to putting in a new motor or scrapping the car; Look at your oil both through the oil pour spout and on the dipstick. if it looks like a chocolate milkshake then there is definitely coolant in the combustion chamber. Also watch your coolant level a most importantly your coolant temp. a car with a blown head gasket won't be able to regulate coolant temps as well as a one whose head gasket is fine. You can have a minor leak and not have any issues for years/thousands of miles. I had a ford that I drove for the better part of 10K miles with a dodgy HG, with the oil looking like a chocolate malt the entire time.
As for getting a new motor you can look at it a few different ways. 100K is nothing on a car made in the last 20 years. My truck has 115K, and my wife's has 170K miles. Look at how much your monthly payment will be, and make sure you include having full coverage insurance. I'm sure you'll find that a new motor and the brakes will be less than a year's worth of payments, and you should be good to go for years. As long as the rest of the car is in good running order I'd get a remanufactured motor with a warranty and keep on rolling, payment free for another 100K miles easy. Good Luck.
posted by chosemerveilleux at 1:28 PM on October 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
Brakes, plugs, wires, rotor, cap, air filter, fuel filter, and fluid changes are all totally standard maintenance stuff, and at or near 100k, you can expect to need to handle them.
At 106k, the real question is whether you (or the previous owner) have maintained it properly or not; I'm not familiar with your specific car, but many vehicles will go for a long, long time if properly maintained. The good news is that this stuff (with the exception of the fuel filter and brakes) are super, super easy to do yourself.
As other folks have said, your coolant either went into your oil (thus the smoke, and the idea that it's a head gasket) or it's still there somewhere. If the former, I'd have expected you to say you overheated; if you didn't, either follow the advice on putting new water/antifreeze in and watching what happens, or take it somewhere for a second opinion.
posted by ellF at 1:29 PM on October 5, 2011
At 106k, the real question is whether you (or the previous owner) have maintained it properly or not; I'm not familiar with your specific car, but many vehicles will go for a long, long time if properly maintained. The good news is that this stuff (with the exception of the fuel filter and brakes) are super, super easy to do yourself.
As other folks have said, your coolant either went into your oil (thus the smoke, and the idea that it's a head gasket) or it's still there somewhere. If the former, I'd have expected you to say you overheated; if you didn't, either follow the advice on putting new water/antifreeze in and watching what happens, or take it somewhere for a second opinion.
posted by ellF at 1:29 PM on October 5, 2011
Response by poster: @elf, I have been the only owner and use synthetic, do the scheduled maintenance and everything has been fine to this (expected) point. The mechanic said the alternative is to put this solution to bind the hole. I'm getting this from Dh talking with him. I just want to do it right.
The last thing to go was the sensor for RPMs. That blew and my car wouldn't go over 20mph. It has been running fine with no light indicators that anything was wrong. Not sure if typical oil change mechanics (Jiffy Lube) check antifreeze. If they did, they didn't tell me anything was wrong.
To me, the car "felt" like it was blowing hot air for a while. I had antifreeze fillup a while back (maybe a year ago?) but no one said/found anything (different mechanic).
@chosemerveilleux. Agree. My goal was to chuck it in 5 years once our son is in (tuition-free) school and we would have that extra $800 a month that we are shelling out to daycare.
posted by stormpooper at 2:22 PM on October 5, 2011
The last thing to go was the sensor for RPMs. That blew and my car wouldn't go over 20mph. It has been running fine with no light indicators that anything was wrong. Not sure if typical oil change mechanics (Jiffy Lube) check antifreeze. If they did, they didn't tell me anything was wrong.
To me, the car "felt" like it was blowing hot air for a while. I had antifreeze fillup a while back (maybe a year ago?) but no one said/found anything (different mechanic).
@chosemerveilleux. Agree. My goal was to chuck it in 5 years once our son is in (tuition-free) school and we would have that extra $800 a month that we are shelling out to daycare.
posted by stormpooper at 2:22 PM on October 5, 2011
Like others have said, 100k miles is NOTHING on a modern car. If it were me, I'd start by adding more coolant and keeping an eye on the levels. Also, chosemerveilleux's description of the milkshake test is spot on. That'll tell you for sure if its the head gasket.
If the engine is toast, your other option is to buy a working engine out of a wrecked car at a junkyard (which can literally be had for a few hundred bucks), then pay someone to look it over, repair anything if necessary, and install it in your car.
At any rate, if it were me, I'd keep the car. Maintaining an older car is ALWAYS less expensive than buying a new car and making monthly payments.
posted by teriyaki_tornado at 2:25 PM on October 5, 2011
If the engine is toast, your other option is to buy a working engine out of a wrecked car at a junkyard (which can literally be had for a few hundred bucks), then pay someone to look it over, repair anything if necessary, and install it in your car.
At any rate, if it were me, I'd keep the car. Maintaining an older car is ALWAYS less expensive than buying a new car and making monthly payments.
posted by teriyaki_tornado at 2:25 PM on October 5, 2011
stormpooper writes "He's a little stumped at why there is no coolant yet no leak and why no white smoke is billowing out anymore if I blew a gasket. He wants to start it cold to see if it does it again. So friggen weird."
Not really unusual. For example this is the classic symptom of a blown head gasket on the Chrysler 2.5 common block. The gasket has a narrow spot at the sealing ring of #4. The gasket material erodes and then the sealing ring cracks. Engine coolant is lost out the tail pipe (not always so much that you get excessive smoke) and it over pressurizes the coolant system overflowing the catch tank which drains on the ground at full throttle. No visible leak and very if any visible smoke. I can change a 2.5 dodge gasket in under an hour in my drive way, your Maxima may be harder.
Anyways if you haven't had enough coolant in your oil to cream it then it is well worth doing the head gasket on such a moderate mileage auto. It's probable you'd get another 100K out of the car afterwards. Even if the repair costs four or five car payments that's a lot less than 60 car payments.
posted by Mitheral at 5:13 PM on October 5, 2011
Not really unusual. For example this is the classic symptom of a blown head gasket on the Chrysler 2.5 common block. The gasket has a narrow spot at the sealing ring of #4. The gasket material erodes and then the sealing ring cracks. Engine coolant is lost out the tail pipe (not always so much that you get excessive smoke) and it over pressurizes the coolant system overflowing the catch tank which drains on the ground at full throttle. No visible leak and very if any visible smoke. I can change a 2.5 dodge gasket in under an hour in my drive way, your Maxima may be harder.
Anyways if you haven't had enough coolant in your oil to cream it then it is well worth doing the head gasket on such a moderate mileage auto. It's probable you'd get another 100K out of the car afterwards. Even if the repair costs four or five car payments that's a lot less than 60 car payments.
posted by Mitheral at 5:13 PM on October 5, 2011
To me, the car "felt" like it was blowing hot air for a while.
Felt it where? Your coolant cools the engine, not the air coming through the vents -- unless there's something strange about the Maxima, I'd think that you were feeling a lack of refrigerant in your air conditioning system if previously cold air was not hot. Unrelated.
As others have said, the real debate here is about paying for an engine repair, paying for a junkyard engine and a possible rebuilding of it, or paying for a newer car. If you've been taking your car to Jiffy Lube, I'd guess that your level of mechanical interest is "typical consumer", rather than "do-it-yourself mechanic"; in that case, paying someone to fix it or paying for a new car are your choices.
Mithereal nails the case for each.
posted by ellF at 8:34 PM on October 5, 2011
Felt it where? Your coolant cools the engine, not the air coming through the vents -- unless there's something strange about the Maxima, I'd think that you were feeling a lack of refrigerant in your air conditioning system if previously cold air was not hot. Unrelated.
As others have said, the real debate here is about paying for an engine repair, paying for a junkyard engine and a possible rebuilding of it, or paying for a newer car. If you've been taking your car to Jiffy Lube, I'd guess that your level of mechanical interest is "typical consumer", rather than "do-it-yourself mechanic"; in that case, paying someone to fix it or paying for a new car are your choices.
Mithereal nails the case for each.
posted by ellF at 8:34 PM on October 5, 2011
Please don't take your car to Jiffy Lube, or any of its ilk. A significant portion of the people who work there are not competent at changing engine oil, let alone any of the other services they offer. Horror stories abound - oil not replaced, drain plugs not tightened or installed at all, filters installed wrong so they leaked, and on and on. Most people who go there don't have problems, but the odds are not good. If you trust your mechanic, have him do the oil changes. If you don't trust him, ask your friends for a recommendation of a good mechanic, or use the "Find a great mechanic" feature of the Car Talk website.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 4:26 AM on October 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Kirth Gerson at 4:26 AM on October 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
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posted by Kirth Gerson at 12:39 PM on October 5, 2011