Can you tell me details about what my grandfather was doing in WWII and who he killed??
October 4, 2011 7:35 AM Subscribe
Can you tell me details about what my grandfather was doing in WWII and who he killed??
My grandfather is dead, but I remember hearing that he killed a Japanese man in WWII, while he was in the Philippines (I think).
Some crazy story about how both of their planes had crashed and they were both sleeping in the same cave, my gramps shot him dead, and saved his wallet and whatever ID he could find.
The personal possessions I couldn't track down, but I know my gramps' name, and that he was in the 37th infantry.
Is there any way to find out more details about A: who he killed, B: what mission my gramps was on (what was he doing exactly?) C: Any details about any of this???
It was something he would never really talk about, and now that he has passed, I want more details, but don't know where to look.
My grandfather is dead, but I remember hearing that he killed a Japanese man in WWII, while he was in the Philippines (I think).
Some crazy story about how both of their planes had crashed and they were both sleeping in the same cave, my gramps shot him dead, and saved his wallet and whatever ID he could find.
The personal possessions I couldn't track down, but I know my gramps' name, and that he was in the 37th infantry.
Is there any way to find out more details about A: who he killed, B: what mission my gramps was on (what was he doing exactly?) C: Any details about any of this???
It was something he would never really talk about, and now that he has passed, I want more details, but don't know where to look.
You can get his service records through the National Archives. it may not have the specific info you need but you'll get more clues to keep searching. Good luck.
posted by moammargaret at 7:51 AM on October 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by moammargaret at 7:51 AM on October 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
Most Pacific Island operations involved amphibious assaults backed with naval artillery and air support. Someone in an infantry position would not likely have been in a plane at the beginning of a island operation but might have been once the island was secure and an airfield established.
Which is not to say he couldn't have confronted a Japanese soldier in a cave, it's just that it's unlikely both of them had crashed a plane prior to meeting. There were plenty of instances of island holdouts who continued to fight after the main Japanese forces had surrendered.
posted by tommasz at 7:51 AM on October 4, 2011
Which is not to say he couldn't have confronted a Japanese soldier in a cave, it's just that it's unlikely both of them had crashed a plane prior to meeting. There were plenty of instances of island holdouts who continued to fight after the main Japanese forces had surrendered.
posted by tommasz at 7:51 AM on October 4, 2011
Respectfully, is it possible that somebody was retelling the plot to Hell in the Pacific?
posted by Comrade_robot at 8:12 AM on October 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Comrade_robot at 8:12 AM on October 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
The 37th was apparently a detatchment of the Ohio National Guard, so perhaps they have some of the records you would be looking for?
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 8:47 AM on October 4, 2011
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 8:47 AM on October 4, 2011
Response by poster: I think the most likely is that the crashing thing was just something my gramps said, or someone said at some point, and is not really that accurate.
But I distinctly remembered him saying he killed a Japanese, in the Philippines, then I found his 37th infantry on Wikipedia which seems to verify that part at least.
Actually, I want to find the family of the man my grandfather killed, go to Japan, and meet them in person.
posted by crawltopslow at 8:50 AM on October 4, 2011
But I distinctly remembered him saying he killed a Japanese, in the Philippines, then I found his 37th infantry on Wikipedia which seems to verify that part at least.
Actually, I want to find the family of the man my grandfather killed, go to Japan, and meet them in person.
posted by crawltopslow at 8:50 AM on October 4, 2011
Actually, I want to find the family of the man my grandfather killed, go to Japan, and meet them in person.
Wait, what? Why? 70 years later, nobody's just looking for closure any more. What on earth do you hope to gain from this other than satisfying some sort of prurient curiosity? More importantly what could you possibly hope to give them other than the "opportunity" to revisit a painful and difficult part of their family's (and their nation's) history?
posted by dersins at 8:56 AM on October 4, 2011 [9 favorites]
Wait, what? Why? 70 years later, nobody's just looking for closure any more. What on earth do you hope to gain from this other than satisfying some sort of prurient curiosity? More importantly what could you possibly hope to give them other than the "opportunity" to revisit a painful and difficult part of their family's (and their nation's) history?
posted by dersins at 8:56 AM on October 4, 2011 [9 favorites]
Actually, I want to find the family of the man my grandfather killed, go to Japan, and meet them in person.
Also respectfully, I'm not sure that's such a good idea. The sentiment might be honest, but it comes off as affected and self-centered. Your grandfather, as a soldier, may have killed another soldier. You're not sure of the circumstances, the location, the psychological fallout for either your grandfather (who did not seem to want to talk about it) or of the family of this unknown Japanese soldier.
For practical purposes, it's not going to be easy, or even possible, to pin point who killed whom, when, and how, in an active combat zone, 50 years ago, on the other side of the planet
posted by lydhre at 8:57 AM on October 4, 2011 [9 favorites]
Also respectfully, I'm not sure that's such a good idea. The sentiment might be honest, but it comes off as affected and self-centered. Your grandfather, as a soldier, may have killed another soldier. You're not sure of the circumstances, the location, the psychological fallout for either your grandfather (who did not seem to want to talk about it) or of the family of this unknown Japanese soldier.
For practical purposes, it's not going to be easy, or even possible, to pin point who killed whom, when, and how, in an active combat zone, 50 years ago, on the other side of the planet
posted by lydhre at 8:57 AM on October 4, 2011 [9 favorites]
Also respectfully, I'm not sure that's such a good idea.
...unless, possibly, you found the soldier's personal effects and wanted to return them to his descendants.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:02 AM on October 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
...unless, possibly, you found the soldier's personal effects and wanted to return them to his descendants.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:02 AM on October 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
It's very probable your grandfather killed a Japanese soldier. Thousands of Japanese soldiers were killed there. It's also possible the soldier was killed in a cave, since there was a lot of cave-clearing throughout the entire Pacific war. The possibility of discovering the identity of the exact soldier your grandfather killed is so slim as to be incalculable.
And, as others have said, it just not a good idea.
posted by Thorzdad at 9:14 AM on October 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
And, as others have said, it just not a good idea.
posted by Thorzdad at 9:14 AM on October 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Yeah I would only visit them if I could find his personal effects.
posted by crawltopslow at 9:16 AM on October 4, 2011
posted by crawltopslow at 9:16 AM on October 4, 2011
Not a great idea. People want to forget the war, if they haven't done so already, and will most likely not be into accommodating a foreigner with no knowledge of Japanese, attempting to close some personal circle.
posted by KokuRyu at 9:30 AM on October 4, 2011
posted by KokuRyu at 9:30 AM on October 4, 2011
Even if your grandfather did save some Japanese soldier's wallet and personal effects, there's a very good chance he turned them in to US Army Intelligence at the time: the soldiers were encouraged to do so, as that was one way Intelligence could track Japanese Army units.
And you can check (online or via smail-mail) with the National Military Personnel Records Center in St. Louis, Mo. for your grandfather's military records, which would help confirm his unit and where he served. (Sorry, I can't link to it now, I'm at work and they frown on that...)
posted by easily confused at 9:40 AM on October 4, 2011
And you can check (online or via smail-mail) with the National Military Personnel Records Center in St. Louis, Mo. for your grandfather's military records, which would help confirm his unit and where he served. (Sorry, I can't link to it now, I'm at work and they frown on that...)
posted by easily confused at 9:40 AM on October 4, 2011
Yeah, impossible and probably not in good taste anyway. You don't live in a Ron Howard film.
posted by TheRedArmy at 9:52 AM on October 4, 2011 [5 favorites]
posted by TheRedArmy at 9:52 AM on October 4, 2011 [5 favorites]
Get his records (use Standard Form 180, possibly several times), and then follow up online on all the leads. Search for unit numbers, dates, place names, and personal names. It's very engrossing.
As for travel to Japan, you may be surprised by the attitudes (and knowledge) of many Japanese about the war. It's a very fraught subject, and I will merely observe that their information about the causes and conduct of the war may not match your own.
posted by wenestvedt at 9:52 AM on October 4, 2011
As for travel to Japan, you may be surprised by the attitudes (and knowledge) of many Japanese about the war. It's a very fraught subject, and I will merely observe that their information about the causes and conduct of the war may not match your own.
posted by wenestvedt at 9:52 AM on October 4, 2011
Follow up online on all the leads. Search for unit numbers, dates, place names, and personal names. It's very engrossing.
Seconding this. There are a lot of veterans' message boards and oral histories that can shed light, if not give you the specifics. Many units also have regular reunions (fewer people all the time, but still...).
posted by Miko at 11:43 AM on October 4, 2011
Seconding this. There are a lot of veterans' message boards and oral histories that can shed light, if not give you the specifics. Many units also have regular reunions (fewer people all the time, but still...).
posted by Miko at 11:43 AM on October 4, 2011
I would suggest seeking out military historians connected with your grandfather's local unit. If you know where he was living, it should be possible to determine which battalion or regiment he was assigned to. Then you would be able to have a better idea which actions that unit, and your grandfather, participated in.
I could surmise that the story you relate could be a confused (civilian) retelling of some elements of the 37th's defense of Hill 700 at Bougainville, where they were defending a vulnerable airfield established in a beachhead on a Japanese-occupied island. At the very least that article will give you a good idea of what it may have been like for an infantryman in some of the more intense fighting, whether there or in one of the two or three other major actions they were in (depending on unit). Some of it was, indeed, quite personal, almost hand-to-hand combat. But it wasn't waking up together in the same cave by a long shot, either.
posted by dhartung at 1:38 PM on October 4, 2011
I could surmise that the story you relate could be a confused (civilian) retelling of some elements of the 37th's defense of Hill 700 at Bougainville, where they were defending a vulnerable airfield established in a beachhead on a Japanese-occupied island. At the very least that article will give you a good idea of what it may have been like for an infantryman in some of the more intense fighting, whether there or in one of the two or three other major actions they were in (depending on unit). Some of it was, indeed, quite personal, almost hand-to-hand combat. But it wasn't waking up together in the same cave by a long shot, either.
posted by dhartung at 1:38 PM on October 4, 2011
Yeah I would only visit them if I could find his personal effects.
If you find the personal effects (which earlier you mentioned included an ID?) the right thing to do would probably be to bring or send them to the Japanese Embassy (or a consulate, depending on where you are), along with a letter detailing what you know about where and when they were acquired. Probably best to leave out the how, though. If it's important that the effects be returned to the family, the Japanese government is in a much better position to be able to locate them than you are, and they're more likely to know whether it's feasible, important, or even a good idea.
In so doing, you will probably not have the opportunity to meet or correspond with the family, but you will have the satisfaction of having done a good deed, which is (or should be) the whole point of doing a good deed in the first place.
posted by dersins at 1:48 PM on October 4, 2011 [4 favorites]
If you find the personal effects (which earlier you mentioned included an ID?) the right thing to do would probably be to bring or send them to the Japanese Embassy (or a consulate, depending on where you are), along with a letter detailing what you know about where and when they were acquired. Probably best to leave out the how, though. If it's important that the effects be returned to the family, the Japanese government is in a much better position to be able to locate them than you are, and they're more likely to know whether it's feasible, important, or even a good idea.
In so doing, you will probably not have the opportunity to meet or correspond with the family, but you will have the satisfaction of having done a good deed, which is (or should be) the whole point of doing a good deed in the first place.
posted by dersins at 1:48 PM on October 4, 2011 [4 favorites]
Mod note: Folks, this is getting a little far afield, can we bring it back to the question being asked please? Thank you.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 3:43 PM on October 4, 2011
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 3:43 PM on October 4, 2011
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That story itself sounds more like one of the fighter pilot stories you hear - is there any way you have your wires crossed? Like either your Grandfather's involvement or perhaps the name of the part of the service he was in?
posted by Brockles at 7:42 AM on October 4, 2011