Help a white guy decide whether to apply to teach at a HBCU.
September 21, 2011 1:55 PM Subscribe
White guy debating applying to teach at a HBCU seeks your input.
I am an academic in an unusual engineering sub-field and recently a tenure track position opened up at a HBCU. I am thinking of applying to it. What should I be aware of, is this a bad idea? I was all fired up about this position before I discovered the school was a HBCU, now I'm still sort of fired up, but also a bit at sea. Any input welcome.
I am an academic in an unusual engineering sub-field and recently a tenure track position opened up at a HBCU. I am thinking of applying to it. What should I be aware of, is this a bad idea? I was all fired up about this position before I discovered the school was a HBCU, now I'm still sort of fired up, but also a bit at sea. Any input welcome.
It can't hurt to apply-if you get an interview you can ask any questions you have and get a feel for whether you will be treated differently as a white faculty member then. Submitting an application isn't a committment to teach there.
posted by martinX's bellbottoms at 2:23 PM on September 21, 2011
posted by martinX's bellbottoms at 2:23 PM on September 21, 2011
I don't have firsthand experience working at an HBCU, but I have several white friends who do work in them (there are several where I live) and none has ever talked about their race being an issue at work. +1 it can't possibly hurt to apply.
posted by CheeseLouise at 2:30 PM on September 21, 2011
posted by CheeseLouise at 2:30 PM on September 21, 2011
I don't know what your specific concerns are, but this piece written by St. Petersburg Times columnist Bill Maxwell is an interesting read. He resigned from his job at the newspaper to teach at Stillman College (an HBCU) in order to fulfill a promise he'd made to himself to "give back" and help African-American students the way he'd been helped by his own mentors many years ago. He threw in the towel after two years.
posted by Oriole Adams at 2:33 PM on September 21, 2011
posted by Oriole Adams at 2:33 PM on September 21, 2011
Well what's the school like? Do you like the area? Did you grow up and have you lived your life being around white people and almost no black people? Is that why you kind of got your balloon deflated after you found out it was an HBCU? That's understandable, but realize the people you're teaching are people. You'd do well to research the last few years of incidents on campus, so that you don't walk in there and inadvertently do something that inflames a prior situation. But really you'd want to do your due diligence anyway.
Be yourself, but also be ready to learn, if the environment is one you're certain is unfamiliar to you. But the classroom is sacred, and it's your classroom. It's your world in there, and you can create the standards and practices as you deem appropriate.
St. Petersburg Times columnist Bill Maxwell...He threw in the towel after two years.
This guy was at least 60 years old when he tried to go in and teach college students. I think he was overmatched for most situations. Send him in with kindergarteners and he probably would have quit the first week. Parts of that article reveal how much of a jackass he was: "When I could not pronounce the second name on the list, I knew for sure I was in big trouble. As I fumbled with the strange combinations of alphabets and apostrophes, the class roared."
I don't suspect you'll take the job if you read scare stories, but as "an academic in an unusual engineering sub-field", I don't think you're going to get a bunch of students in there that are going to treat it like 9th grade phys ed. Good luck with your decision.
posted by cashman at 2:41 PM on September 21, 2011 [2 favorites]
Be yourself, but also be ready to learn, if the environment is one you're certain is unfamiliar to you. But the classroom is sacred, and it's your classroom. It's your world in there, and you can create the standards and practices as you deem appropriate.
St. Petersburg Times columnist Bill Maxwell...He threw in the towel after two years.
This guy was at least 60 years old when he tried to go in and teach college students. I think he was overmatched for most situations. Send him in with kindergarteners and he probably would have quit the first week. Parts of that article reveal how much of a jackass he was: "When I could not pronounce the second name on the list, I knew for sure I was in big trouble. As I fumbled with the strange combinations of alphabets and apostrophes, the class roared."
I don't suspect you'll take the job if you read scare stories, but as "an academic in an unusual engineering sub-field", I don't think you're going to get a bunch of students in there that are going to treat it like 9th grade phys ed. Good luck with your decision.
posted by cashman at 2:41 PM on September 21, 2011 [2 favorites]
Cashman, why is Maxwell a jackass - because he couldn't pronounce the names, because mentioned in print that he couldn't pronounce them, or because the students laughed at him? Read part two of his piece - it's not only older professors who had difficulty with both the students and the administration. Are you saying a 60 year old professor can't be effective teaching at any university, or just HBCUs? (And that argument smacks a bit of ageism.) He notes that most of the professors at Stillman were older and many were also PhDs - they were the ones who were able to work for the comparably smaller salaries offered there versus other schools (they had pensions from other jobs or spouses who worked).
posted by Oriole Adams at 3:05 PM on September 21, 2011
posted by Oriole Adams at 3:05 PM on September 21, 2011
Your own race is likely to matter far less to the hiring committee than whether or not you have any experience teaching/working with a diversity of students - whether that be racial, socioeconomic, age, or otherwise. Often small, student-focused schools want to see some demonstration of your strength in working people representative of their own student body. If you can cogently discuss the ways that pedagogy needs to be adjusted for a student-centered environment for different types of students (without positioning yourself as the savior to the disadvantaged youths) you'll probably be in pretty okay shape with your statement of teaching philosophy.
posted by amelioration at 3:16 PM on September 21, 2011
posted by amelioration at 3:16 PM on September 21, 2011
He threw in the towel after two years.
Meh. Almost every professor wants to quit after the first year. And the second. And sometimes the third. But they don't usually have any savings (and usually lots of debt) or another job as an alternative, and had just spent 7-9 years of their life getting primed for this. For someone to drop into the academic system as a professor, in a situation like that (i.e. not a plush gig at a business school), well, it's no surprise that he wanted out -- had the means to do so. I kind of see that situation like the "poverty tourism" (white) folks who "play poor" for a book or a blog or whatever, and eventually decide to do something else, and then try to expose the insanity of that life, its institutions, habits, and modes of survival. But they completely miss the point of generational poverty or local customs. Higher Ed IS screwed up, in so many ways. HBCUs definitely have their own unique problems on top of that. But dropping in to teach for a year or two, as some kind of "promise" of helping his kin, and being "shocked" at the situation, isn't a super good barometer of the general experience of teaching at an HBCU, which may or may not be Stillman. So much more to say on this topic, about HBCU populations, the general trends of university students in general, and the generational difference between the folks who grew up in the 1960s and the current students (and their relationship to education) -- but it would be too far afield for this question.
Anyway.
OP: there are white professors at HBCUs. There are men teaching at all-women's colleges.
There will be a variety of factors at work in the reading of your application, any potential interviews, and if it comes to that, your hire. But there are a variety of factors at literally every other school. Now that I have seen the way job committees and departments hire new faculty members, it is rather astonishing to realize how little the actual applicant's work is the deciding factor. So many other considerations (many of which are completely tangental to the position) are more influential than the actual applicant's research, publications, teaching history, identity, personal connections or anything else specific to them.
All of which is to say: yes, apply. See what happens. If it is a good match academically, what do you have to lose? It seems like you might not have a ton of experience with folks of color -- sorry if that is an incorrect statement, it's just a guess! -- so if that is a glaring point in your application (in terms of teaching experience and research experience), you'll need to address that at some point. But yes, apply.
posted by barnone at 3:53 PM on September 21, 2011
Meh. Almost every professor wants to quit after the first year. And the second. And sometimes the third. But they don't usually have any savings (and usually lots of debt) or another job as an alternative, and had just spent 7-9 years of their life getting primed for this. For someone to drop into the academic system as a professor, in a situation like that (i.e. not a plush gig at a business school), well, it's no surprise that he wanted out -- had the means to do so. I kind of see that situation like the "poverty tourism" (white) folks who "play poor" for a book or a blog or whatever, and eventually decide to do something else, and then try to expose the insanity of that life, its institutions, habits, and modes of survival. But they completely miss the point of generational poverty or local customs. Higher Ed IS screwed up, in so many ways. HBCUs definitely have their own unique problems on top of that. But dropping in to teach for a year or two, as some kind of "promise" of helping his kin, and being "shocked" at the situation, isn't a super good barometer of the general experience of teaching at an HBCU, which may or may not be Stillman. So much more to say on this topic, about HBCU populations, the general trends of university students in general, and the generational difference between the folks who grew up in the 1960s and the current students (and their relationship to education) -- but it would be too far afield for this question.
Anyway.
OP: there are white professors at HBCUs. There are men teaching at all-women's colleges.
There will be a variety of factors at work in the reading of your application, any potential interviews, and if it comes to that, your hire. But there are a variety of factors at literally every other school. Now that I have seen the way job committees and departments hire new faculty members, it is rather astonishing to realize how little the actual applicant's work is the deciding factor. So many other considerations (many of which are completely tangental to the position) are more influential than the actual applicant's research, publications, teaching history, identity, personal connections or anything else specific to them.
All of which is to say: yes, apply. See what happens. If it is a good match academically, what do you have to lose? It seems like you might not have a ton of experience with folks of color -- sorry if that is an incorrect statement, it's just a guess! -- so if that is a glaring point in your application (in terms of teaching experience and research experience), you'll need to address that at some point. But yes, apply.
posted by barnone at 3:53 PM on September 21, 2011
Don't turn down the job until it's been offered to you. If it seems like a good opportunity, apply.
For what it's worth, there may be some benefit to working at an HBCU because there is some momentum to produce more African American STEM doctorates that may translate into funding opportunities (assuming you are interested in teaching/mentoring).
posted by thinkingwoman at 5:27 PM on September 21, 2011
For what it's worth, there may be some benefit to working at an HBCU because there is some momentum to produce more African American STEM doctorates that may translate into funding opportunities (assuming you are interested in teaching/mentoring).
posted by thinkingwoman at 5:27 PM on September 21, 2011
Apply!
I, a white male, taught secondary school in a primarily black community. The job was easy to get. Integrating was challenging at first, but became easier all the time. I was sad to leave.
posted by jander03 at 5:38 PM on September 21, 2011
I, a white male, taught secondary school in a primarily black community. The job was easy to get. Integrating was challenging at first, but became easier all the time. I was sad to leave.
posted by jander03 at 5:38 PM on September 21, 2011
If you have real concerns about being faculty at an HBCU you could just email some of the white members of the faculty you are interested in applying to. I know when I went I had several classes taught be white faculty. I can't speak to their experience but our relationship wasn't strained or conflicted in anyway.
I will suffice to say this HBCU's are very different and have different motivations,legacies and student bodies. No one is going to turn down an acceptance to an Ivy League school to go to Stillman. Morehouse, Howard and Spelman are a different story.
posted by Rubbstone at 5:46 PM on September 21, 2011 [2 favorites]
I will suffice to say this HBCU's are very different and have different motivations,legacies and student bodies. No one is going to turn down an acceptance to an Ivy League school to go to Stillman. Morehouse, Howard and Spelman are a different story.
posted by Rubbstone at 5:46 PM on September 21, 2011 [2 favorites]
I think Bill Maxwell's articles are insightful, but note that his experience may be different than yours -- he is a black man who attended an historically black college himself, and had 18 years of teaching experience as well as his experience as a journalist (and urban organizer in the South during the Civil Rights movement).
posted by Houstonian at 6:15 PM on September 21, 2011
posted by Houstonian at 6:15 PM on September 21, 2011
(Maxwell's last article in the series answers "Should historically black colleges be saved?" and gives some interesting statistics.)
posted by Houstonian at 6:40 PM on September 21, 2011
posted by Houstonian at 6:40 PM on September 21, 2011
I'm a white male who teaches philosophy at an HBCU. I'm happy to talk to you about it further via email, but basically this is probably not nearly as big a deal as you're worrying that it is. Mostly, this is just like any other job: make sure you're comfortable with your future colleagues and that the Dean supports you. Good luck!
posted by anotherpanacea at 8:11 PM on September 21, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by anotherpanacea at 8:11 PM on September 21, 2011 [2 favorites]
In the sciences, your race will likely not be a problem. Your colleagues will likely be from very diverse backgrounds -- different races, countries, socioeconomic backgrounds, the works. As long as that's not a problem for you, you should be fine. You should take a look at the faculty page for your prospective department to be sure, though.
The university-wide politics might trip up your tenure quest. This is no different than at any other school. Some of what trips you up might be your background, including your race. This is also no different than any other school. Playing politics is as much a part of the tenure process as publishing papers.
That said, you don't want to end up at Cronyism State University. If you get far enough along in the hiring process, I'd take a good look at what sorts of people get or don't get tenure before you accept an offer. Is tenure really based on academic records or are great academics not receiving tenure while mediocre ones squeak through? That's something I'd suggest regardless of whether you were applying at an HBCU or not.
posted by lesli212 at 8:49 PM on September 21, 2011
The university-wide politics might trip up your tenure quest. This is no different than at any other school. Some of what trips you up might be your background, including your race. This is also no different than any other school. Playing politics is as much a part of the tenure process as publishing papers.
That said, you don't want to end up at Cronyism State University. If you get far enough along in the hiring process, I'd take a good look at what sorts of people get or don't get tenure before you accept an offer. Is tenure really based on academic records or are great academics not receiving tenure while mediocre ones squeak through? That's something I'd suggest regardless of whether you were applying at an HBCU or not.
posted by lesli212 at 8:49 PM on September 21, 2011
Yes, you should apply. I applied to all sorts of jobs where I wasn't sure I was a great fit for all sorts of reasons (religion, race, geography, etc.) or where I thought they wouldn't want me (different research emphases, poorly focused job ads, etc.). In general, cast your net wide (much wider than you might think) during the application phase. You can always say no later, but you'll never be able to go back and apply again if your other options don't work out.
I (white) applied for a position at an HBCU and made it to the campus visit stage after a face-to-face conference interview. In my experience, the whole thing was really professional and absolutely comparable to most of my other campus visits in that every school was looking for a good match for their department and for their students. The HBCU I interviewed at had a lot of economic and social challenges (low funding, especially for facilities and salaries; underprepared students due to low-performing public schools in the region; pressure to be a second-chance school for people who didn't make it elsewhere, etc.). Not all HBCUs have those challenges, and many of my concerns were about those issues rather than simply about race.
In this case, faculty were very willing to talk about being at an HBCU, asked good questions about how I'd adapt my pedagogy to their student body (again, a common question at teaching-focused schools regardless of racial makeup), and had a clearly outlined tenure policy that, as far as I could tell, was working well for faculty.
If you make it further in the process, I'd be happy to talk more about my interview process/approach to questions, the campus visit (including dealing with well-meaning students who ask questions not appropriate to an interview situation), and the ways other non-Black faculty talked about their positions within the larger campus community.
posted by BlooPen at 8:26 AM on September 22, 2011
I (white) applied for a position at an HBCU and made it to the campus visit stage after a face-to-face conference interview. In my experience, the whole thing was really professional and absolutely comparable to most of my other campus visits in that every school was looking for a good match for their department and for their students. The HBCU I interviewed at had a lot of economic and social challenges (low funding, especially for facilities and salaries; underprepared students due to low-performing public schools in the region; pressure to be a second-chance school for people who didn't make it elsewhere, etc.). Not all HBCUs have those challenges, and many of my concerns were about those issues rather than simply about race.
In this case, faculty were very willing to talk about being at an HBCU, asked good questions about how I'd adapt my pedagogy to their student body (again, a common question at teaching-focused schools regardless of racial makeup), and had a clearly outlined tenure policy that, as far as I could tell, was working well for faculty.
If you make it further in the process, I'd be happy to talk more about my interview process/approach to questions, the campus visit (including dealing with well-meaning students who ask questions not appropriate to an interview situation), and the ways other non-Black faculty talked about their positions within the larger campus community.
posted by BlooPen at 8:26 AM on September 22, 2011
This thread is closed to new comments.
You can use the contact link at the bottom of the page to email the moderators and someone will post your response.
posted by desjardins at 2:19 PM on September 21, 2011