Replacing motherboard - what else needs to be replaced

May 27, 2005 4:54 PM

My mother has been told by a PC repair firm that the capacitors on her motherboard have burnt out (computer is as dead as a doornail). They have presented her with a 9-item quote for a new PC: we are wondering whether all the items need to be replaced, as she was happy with her computer before it gave up the ghost for factors such as speed, storage capacity, etc.

The quote includes: Motherboard, CPU, 512MB DDRII 533MHz RAM, a new case with 300W PSU, FDD, CD Rriter, O/S, Power filter, Anti-virus. We can't see why things like the case, the FDD, and the CDWriter need to be replaced. Can they be re-used from the existing computer?

posted by Pigpen to Computers & Internet (25 answers total)

There have been some cases of computers with bad caps. Here is but one description of the problem. A bad cap could short out the motherboard, but doesn't have to. Are you sure it has been ruined? I would talk to the tech.
posted by caddis at 5:01 PM on May 27, 2005

Yes, the FDD, case, CD and likely the RAM and the OS can be re-used.

Essentially, they're selling her a new computer. Compare their price to buying a new computer from Dell or Gateway.
posted by orthogonality at 5:08 PM on May 27, 2005

You could find a motherboard compatible with your CPU and RAM. Then you could reuse everything except the broken motherboard, assuming this is the or the only problem.

Can you give some specs on the PC?
posted by 6550 at 5:09 PM on May 27, 2005

512MB DDRII 533MHz RAM? Mom's hypothetical new computer sounds like a fairly high-end machine. And a 'power filter'? Will this new case have cold cathode lighting and a window in the site? And, what, no Monster Cable?

It seems quite unlikely that everything listed there needs to be replaced. And, knowing only what you've said, I think there's a possibility that the tech is either ignorant or being less than completely honest with you.
posted by box at 5:14 PM on May 27, 2005

If it was a fairly old motherboard they might not be able to use the RAM or the CPU, since small shops tend to only carry fairly modern boards. Motherboards that might not be happy with a 500Mhz celeron or PC-100 DIMMs, for instance. The case may not be usable depending on what type of computer it was. If it's a mini-ATX or one of those small HP machines they, again, might not have a motherboard that can fit the case.

But without a doubt they're trying to sell you a fairly high end machine. It also sounds like they're trying to sell you a UPS with that "power filter" business.

I'd shop around if I were you, or see if you can get a hold of a sharp high schooler who wants to make a few dollars assembling a machine from components for you.
posted by cmonkey at 5:27 PM on May 27, 2005

"Sure, I can fix your car -- We'll need to replace the engine, exhaust, steering, gears, aircon, shell and seating. You can keep the dashboard air freshner."

Get another opinion. These guys sound like they're trying to rip you off.
posted by ori at 5:42 PM on May 27, 2005

If it is only the capacitors that should be a $100 repair, including parts and labor. Is the motherboard dead? If only the motherboard why replace everything else? The bad caps were from 2002 and 2003 as far as I know and computers from that era are not yet dinosaurs. A new motherboard with processor and memory should be the maximum she needs. If the board is otherwise fine, replacing caps is easy, although a whole new motherboard would probably not be much more than cap replacement.
posted by caddis at 5:49 PM on May 27, 2005

Yup, new motherboard, memory and (budget) processor should work out at less than $150 of your yankee dollars. Unless it's a weird case, that can be re-used - as can all the other parts.

You may even be able to get an exact replacement for the motherboard and test your existing processor and memory to see if they really do need replacing.

Conclusion: they're taking the piss.
posted by blag at 6:12 PM on May 27, 2005

even if you can't reuse it, check the quote in terms of parts. I just built a relatively top-line computer (Athlon64 2ghz, gig of ram, 10k rpm hd, radeon x800 xl) for about $900 from parts (newegg), not including monitor/keyboard/mouse/etc. At most the mobo and processor/ram need to be swapped out, unless the old mobo used ISA or something similarly old and all your cards match it.

Find a hs student that knows more than he/she should & talk to them for advice, then ask them about building it. It all depends on the mobo you have now.

(also note that if the mobo's gone, there's a fair chance it took the processor and maybe a ram chip with it, so don't bank on not having to replace these)

(also note that a new processor (low-end speed, of course) is roughly the same price as an old processor, so if you're presented with the option, go for a new one)
posted by devilsbrigade at 6:29 PM on May 27, 2005

Your mom's machine isn't a Dell or Gateway something similar, is it? The really big computer makers will tend to use nonstandard parts (like cases that don't accept motherboards other than their custom-made ones) and use just-barely-capable-enough power supplies (so you have to replace the PS if you get a processor that draws more power).

It's often easier to replace a computer like that, rather than try to repair or upgrade it.

However, if the computer is a generic beige box, you shouldn't have to replace more than the motherboard, processor, and RAM. And if the computer is fairly recent, you should be able to get a motherboard that will accept your old processor and RAM.
posted by aneel at 6:31 PM on May 27, 2005

If the board is otherwise fine, replacing caps is easy

Indeed. Take the motherboard to a TV repair shop (the older and dustier the better) and ask them to replace the electrolytic caps and to let you know if they found any bad ones. Then try it out. If it still doesn't work then spring (ahem) for the new motherboard.
posted by intermod at 6:31 PM on May 27, 2005

You cant get a decently equipped Dell for $349 w/ a 17" flat panel. Or a P4 w/ 19" flat panel for $449.

Computers at these prices make repair nearly obsolete.

Then donate what's left to a school (after you transfer your data)?
posted by vaportrail at 7:15 PM on May 27, 2005

uh.. you CAN get a decently equipped Dell for...

//duh.
posted by vaportrail at 7:44 PM on May 27, 2005

aneel, I had the nonstandard parts issue with an HP one time. The power supply failed twice and the second time was out of warranty. I ended up using a standard power supply that didn't fit the case and so hung out the back of the computer! It looked lame but worked fine til I upgraded to a new machine.
posted by 6550 at 8:21 PM on May 27, 2005

Response by poster: Thanks everyone for your replies. I can't give any specs about the existing motherboard, but the case was a standard size. The computer was only around 2 - 2 1/2 years old, would have been bog-standard for that time, with 256MB SD-RAM. It was assembled by the PC Company, a company in New Zealand that has since gone bust. I thought the computer being proposed was a bit overpowered for her needs: word processing, speadsheets, surfing and email. The quote was for NZ$1048, not including a modem, and even Mum was suspicious. I couldn't for the life of me figure out why they couldn't take the existing FDD and CD Writer and put them in the new computer. Plus there is a list of suggested "upgrades" on the quote, extra to the $1048, that included a new monitor! Hardware ignoramus that I am, even I knew she doesn't need a new monitor.
posted by Pigpen at 8:53 PM on May 27, 2005

Since they are already trying to rip you off, open up the case yourself and make sure there really are bad capacitors. The capacitors are the cylindrical objects with a shrunken plastic wrap on the side and on the the top metal showing which will have two perpendicular lines on it. Bad capacitors will have the metal on the top expanded out (it should be flat) or even an obvious "explosion" with stuff leaked out.

(My motherboard has several bad caps, but it continues to work. Go figure.)
posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 9:23 PM on May 27, 2005

Plus there is a list of suggested "upgrades" on the quote, extra to the $1048, that included a new monitor! Hardware ignoramus that I am, even I knew she doesn't need a new monitor.

I'm not sure if they're trying to scam you, but they're definitely not being entirely level with you. A $1048 NZD machine sounds like it's way, way more than your mother needs. Hell, you shouldn't need to pay more than $500 NZD if you already have a monitor and a hard drive.

Are there any other shops in town you can go to?
posted by cmonkey at 9:50 PM on May 27, 2005

Okay, what you need to do is report these guys to NZ's equivalent of the Better Business Bureau. Then tell them straight up that for trying to rip you off, you're letting everyone know about what they tried to do to your poor mum.

For your mother's needs, without a monitor, you can get a new computer for under $500NZ. This is including case, power supply, CD writer, motherboard, and RAM.

She should already have a perfectly fine copy of an OS and Anti-virus. If you didn't get one when you got your last computer, don't buy it from the same guys that sell you the computer, no matter who they are. If they push it, tell them you're using Linux on the computer and you're not blowing $100+ on junk you won't use. You can shop around for software on your own just fine.

Now, hearing what your mother was on, she'd probably be fine with something running in the realm of 1.5-2ghz Celeron processor with one or two 256 MB RAM chips. If all you need is mobo, processor, and RAM, that should not run you over $200NZ for any reason.

If you can find a trustworthy techie, it's probably worth consulting him, shelling out a couple hundred for parts depending on what she will need, and paying him nicely. If worst comes to worst and you get a new system without monitor, you've got no need to spend over $500NZ for her needs and anyone who tries to convince you otherwise is a scam artist.

Personal experience- I ordered a system from a parts company that offered building and parts testing free of charge. Total cost of the system was $700 US, or a bit over $900NZ. I bought it about two years ago, and it's still well higher spec than what I'm suggesting to you.

Did I mention those guys were trying to rip your mother off worse than a pack of 419 mailers at a millionaire's convention?
posted by Saydur at 10:47 PM on May 27, 2005

Pigpen, I see you're in Nelson. Email me, I have a friend who works for a computer repair place up there and I can at least get you in contact with him. (Or it could turn out that it's his firm that's ripping you off...) I know some other options your Mum could try, anyway.
posted by tracicle at 10:50 PM on May 27, 2005

Just the fact that they are telling you to replace Anti-Virus software to fix bad capacitors should be ringing extreme rip-off alert alarm bells in your head.

We're talking something on the level of a mechanic replacing your car stereo because you blew a tire. Inexcusable.

I noticed they quoted you a case with a power supply included. Be sure it's made by a decent company (check the brand name on the internet) as in my experience at least 99% of power supplies that come with cases have their ratings doubled or tripled on the sticker. The worst ones come with stickers the store manager can peel off to decide the PSU rating of the week. (seriously... I run a store, I have experienced PSUs like this... ugggh).
posted by shepd at 12:05 AM on May 28, 2005

It would probably be cheaper to replace the motherboard then replace the caps on the existing one.

If your computer is a couple of years old a compatable motherboard should be pretty cheap, like US$30 or so.
posted by delmoi at 12:34 AM on May 28, 2005

I fixed a mobo with dud caps for a friend by replacing all the dud caps. All eighteen low-ESR caps on the board were leaking orange gunk and/or bulging; it cost about $40 Australian to replace them (go to Farnell In One, search for Rubycon ZA or ZL series and match the capacitances and voltages).

If you have access to the right tools (mainly a power desoldering station) this is an easy job and shouldn't take more than an hour. I used a crappy 25 watt Dick Smith soldering iron, a spring loaded solder sucker and solder wick braid, and it took me half a day.

If you don't want to fix the mobo, that's the only part that should need replacing unless the bad caps concerned are inside the power supply, in which case only the power supply should need replacing. These a$$wipes are ripping you off.
posted by flabdablet at 3:22 AM on May 28, 2005

> The really big computer makers will tend to use nonstandard parts

Most notoriously, Dell uses nonstandard pinouts on their motherboard-to-power-supply connector so that you must use a Dell-brand replacement if you want to replace just one and not both.
posted by jfuller at 6:17 AM on May 28, 2005

one thing to keep in mind, if you replace the motherboard with anything other than the exact model you had before then you will probably need to reinstall your OS.

and furthermore, GOOD LORD what a scam these clowns are trying to pull on your poor mother! if you didn't live on a different tectonic plate, I would've fixed it all for free and called those crooks to tell'm about it.
posted by mcsweetie at 8:38 AM on May 28, 2005

Just a quick note on Dell's non-standard-ness.

There was a general outcry among geeks during the time Dell was doing this. Dell decided that it was costing too much business and stopped the practice in 2000.

Their boards and power supplies are still in-house OEM (and ODM, if that means anything to you), but they're now industry standard as far as pinouts and voltages.
posted by SlyBevel at 8:35 AM on June 1, 2005