Are the words "grace" and "rain" either identical or similar in Persian?
July 31, 2011 8:59 AM Subscribe
Are the words "grace" and "rain" either identical or similar in Persian? Someone wrote me a letter about a Rumi book they sent me when I was little and I remember them saying that in the language Rumi wrote in, "grace" and "rain" are the same word. According to Wikipedia, Rumi wrote the the "New Persian Language." (Yes, crappy sources, I know, hence I ask!)
Digging a little deeper, grace is meant to be the same as 'unseen rain' (whatever that is). And, this tidbit seems to be via Coleman Barks, who has the nasty habit of playing fast and loose with meaning. So, I have the feeling this isn't exactly true. There may be a kernel of truth in it somewhere, but I haven't found it yet.
posted by Gordafarin at 10:01 AM on July 31, 2011
posted by Gordafarin at 10:01 AM on July 31, 2011
Response by poster: Lies! All lies! I was misled about mystics as a child! *is aghast*
These answers are great and I will keep watching the thread. Thanks!
posted by ShadePlant at 4:18 PM on July 31, 2011
These answers are great and I will keep watching the thread. Thanks!
posted by ShadePlant at 4:18 PM on July 31, 2011
Best answer: I did find this, which appears to be related, and seems scholarly enough to investigate further:
Pain and grace: a study of two mystical writers of eighteenth-century Muslim India by Annemarie Schimmel
In a chapter 'The Islamic Background of Shah Abdul Latif', a discussion (not all visible due to preview restrictions) of rain as a metaphor (fertility, resurrection, etc.) in the Quran has an aside about Rumi thus:
Rumi's verse is filled with spring poems which describe the overwhelming power of resurrection as it happens every year under the influence of thunder ... rain, and sunshine.... and the tears of the lover, says Maulana Rumi, will result in the growth of kindness in the heart of the beloved... [sic] 'Love and rain are one thing', thus sings also Shah Latif....
Rain is called in some of the Islamic languages, particularly Turkish and Persian, rahmat [note: h has a diacritic dot underneath which I cannot replicate], 'mercy', derived from Sura 27/64, where the clouds are described as messengers of God's mercy. That expression gave a perfect basis for the combination of rain with the person of the Prophet who is also 'mercy for the worlds'. This was all the easier since the comparison of a king or a religious leader to a rich rain cloud was common in oriental poetry, whether the psalmist describes the king of peace in Psalm 27 [Ed.: quelle coincidence!], or a court poet sees his macenas showering gifts upon his admirers. The Mahabharata compares the dharma to the rain which makes everyone just and equal; but the most beautiful description of this kind is the hymn in honor of the Buddha in the Saddharma Pundarika, where he is seen as a large cloud, raining peace and blessings over the world.
posted by dhartung at 6:02 PM on July 31, 2011 [1 favorite]
Pain and grace: a study of two mystical writers of eighteenth-century Muslim India by Annemarie Schimmel
In a chapter 'The Islamic Background of Shah Abdul Latif', a discussion (not all visible due to preview restrictions) of rain as a metaphor (fertility, resurrection, etc.) in the Quran has an aside about Rumi thus:
Rumi's verse is filled with spring poems which describe the overwhelming power of resurrection as it happens every year under the influence of thunder ... rain, and sunshine.... and the tears of the lover, says Maulana Rumi, will result in the growth of kindness in the heart of the beloved... [sic] 'Love and rain are one thing', thus sings also Shah Latif....
Rain is called in some of the Islamic languages, particularly Turkish and Persian, rahmat [note: h has a diacritic dot underneath which I cannot replicate], 'mercy', derived from Sura 27/64, where the clouds are described as messengers of God's mercy. That expression gave a perfect basis for the combination of rain with the person of the Prophet who is also 'mercy for the worlds'. This was all the easier since the comparison of a king or a religious leader to a rich rain cloud was common in oriental poetry, whether the psalmist describes the king of peace in Psalm 27 [Ed.: quelle coincidence!], or a court poet sees his macenas showering gifts upon his admirers. The Mahabharata compares the dharma to the rain which makes everyone just and equal; but the most beautiful description of this kind is the hymn in honor of the Buddha in the Saddharma Pundarika, where he is seen as a large cloud, raining peace and blessings over the world.
posted by dhartung at 6:02 PM on July 31, 2011 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Oh, how interesting! Schimmel is indeed a respected scholar in the field. Thanks for the info, dhartung.
And here's the confirmation, in Steingass, a comprehensive dictionary of historical Persian terms. In Persian script the word is رحمت. It also is used for 'thank you' in Tajik and Uzbek. There also seems to be an idiom in Malaysia, 'hujan rahmat', a rain of blessings. In Turkish, it is spelt rahmet.
(as an aside, now I understand the play on names in this film - the girl whose name is Baran, dresses as a boy and calls herself Rahmat.)
posted by Gordafarin at 2:23 AM on August 1, 2011
And here's the confirmation, in Steingass, a comprehensive dictionary of historical Persian terms. In Persian script the word is رحمت. It also is used for 'thank you' in Tajik and Uzbek. There also seems to be an idiom in Malaysia, 'hujan rahmat', a rain of blessings. In Turkish, it is spelt rahmet.
(as an aside, now I understand the play on names in this film - the girl whose name is Baran, dresses as a boy and calls herself Rahmat.)
posted by Gordafarin at 2:23 AM on August 1, 2011
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I did find another instance if what you said, in this book description, though it only cites it as 'some middle eastern languages'.
There is a lot of mistranslation and misinformation about Rumi in English which is hard to trace back to its original source unfortunately.
posted by Gordafarin at 9:45 AM on July 31, 2011