Help me get evicted!
May 20, 2005 12:35 PM Subscribe
Another rental question for all ya'll to tackle. I rented a room from an ad in the paper (I was moving in from out of state, didn't know many people). Rent was advertised @ $300/mo. A little steep for around here, but not TOO bad. Conveniently enough, the day after I got the lease signed, one of my roomates let me in on the fact that the couple downstairs, who rent their room/living room/bathroom combo area for $500, are moving out and subleasing it to a girl from SF for $367. Which bumps both mine and the other roomates rent up to $367 as well.
I recently discovered that EVERYONE I talked to was aware this was going to happen - The landlord, the guy I subleased from, and the three other roomates. I spoke with ALL of them extensively before signing the lease, and no one felt it pertinent to let me in on this little "detail". So, to put it lightly, I'm feeling a little burned here.
The lease, which legally covers the landlord ( I signed it for the total amount of the rent, $1,100, as did the rest of the roomates, which basically leaves it up to us to figure out distribution ) runs through August. An extra $67 may not seem like alot to some other MeFi'rs, but it's a ton to me, and I simply can't afford it. Subleasing it myself isn't an option, as $367 is absolutely RIDICULOUS rent for a room in this town, much less this neighborhood.
Now to the question: What would happen, if I were to say, quit paying rent, period, and the landlord evicted me? Would I still be bound by the lease? I would pay all due rent ONCE he kicked me out - The point of not paying rent would be to provoke him to legally release me from the lease.. This sounds like the perfect solution to my problem, but...I mean, I've gotta be missing a critical detail here, right?
An interesting side note is that I haven't paid my $300 deposit, which I don't plan on doing either. So I'm not worried about that end of it...
What does your lease state? Is that $1,100 the monthly rent or is it the total amount of rent that you owe to the landlord?
Not paying your rent is a really really bad idea. If you're even considering going down that road I would suggest that you speak to a lawyer first.
I would suggest that you just pay the $300 that you negotiated with the landlord. If he tries to scam the other $67 from you then just claim that that's not what was negotiated.
posted by bshort at 12:44 PM on May 20, 2005
Not paying your rent is a really really bad idea. If you're even considering going down that road I would suggest that you speak to a lawyer first.
I would suggest that you just pay the $300 that you negotiated with the landlord. If he tries to scam the other $67 from you then just claim that that's not what was negotiated.
posted by bshort at 12:44 PM on May 20, 2005
What would happen, if I were to say, quit paying rent, period, and the landlord evicted me? Would I still be bound by the lease?
Said landlord could file a small claims case, and you may end up with a judgement against you. That is public record and will probably end up on your credit report. If a megacorp runs the property, then they can pretty much damage your credit report directly.
posted by rolypolyman at 12:45 PM on May 20, 2005
Said landlord could file a small claims case, and you may end up with a judgement against you. That is public record and will probably end up on your credit report. If a megacorp runs the property, then they can pretty much damage your credit report directly.
posted by rolypolyman at 12:45 PM on May 20, 2005
the lease you signed should say how much you owe. You are not obliged to pay any more than you signed on for. I say move into the place and pay 300 dollars a month.
The couple downstairs is the one who is obligated to make up the difference between their rent and the subletters rent. stand up for yourself, and don't let them screw you.
posted by slapshot57 at 12:50 PM on May 20, 2005
The couple downstairs is the one who is obligated to make up the difference between their rent and the subletters rent. stand up for yourself, and don't let them screw you.
posted by slapshot57 at 12:50 PM on May 20, 2005
Response by poster: What does your lease state? Is that $1,100 the monthly rent or is it the total amount of rent that you owe to the landlord?
Apparently, the landlord had EVERYONE sign a lease saying that monthly rent due was $1,100 - This way we're ALL legally obligated for the full amount.
Said landlord could file a small claims case, and you may end up with a judgement against you.
A judgment for what? If he evicts me, I'm not obligated by the lease, and if I pay all that I owe, then there's nothing he can sue me for, right?
posted by rabble at 12:55 PM on May 20, 2005
Apparently, the landlord had EVERYONE sign a lease saying that monthly rent due was $1,100 - This way we're ALL legally obligated for the full amount.
Said landlord could file a small claims case, and you may end up with a judgement against you.
A judgment for what? If he evicts me, I'm not obligated by the lease, and if I pay all that I owe, then there's nothing he can sue me for, right?
posted by rabble at 12:55 PM on May 20, 2005
If you are evicted, you stand a good chance of said eviction and subsequent damages that you may accrue ending up on your credit history. Most landlords who take on tenants check evictions and credit nowadays and this could keep you from getting a better place down the road. Check around and find a tenant's-rights org in your area (or a lawyer if you can't find an organization) and see if this is the case for you. Good luck.
posted by DeepFriedTwinkies at 1:01 PM on May 20, 2005
posted by DeepFriedTwinkies at 1:01 PM on May 20, 2005
Response by poster: Also, it might be important to note that I'm a college student with horrible credit. Horrible. So not too worried there. But I do have impecable rental history, so if an eviction would show up to other renters outside of credit checks, that would worry me a bit...
posted by rabble at 1:06 PM on May 20, 2005
posted by rabble at 1:06 PM on May 20, 2005
Best answer: Nolo.com has some great legal resources for non-lawyers. This article (and the related links) has some information for you.
IANAL, but it sounds to me as though your co-tenants were negotiating in bad faith, which puts you in a fairly strong position from a legal standpoint.
You shouldn't STOP paying rent, but I see no reason why you should pay more than the $300 about which you had an oral agreement with your roommates.
That having been said, you should try to find a replacement tenant for yourself and move the hell out as soon as possible-- these do not sound like people you should want to live with.
posted by dersins at 1:16 PM on May 20, 2005
IANAL, but it sounds to me as though your co-tenants were negotiating in bad faith, which puts you in a fairly strong position from a legal standpoint.
You shouldn't STOP paying rent, but I see no reason why you should pay more than the $300 about which you had an oral agreement with your roommates.
That having been said, you should try to find a replacement tenant for yourself and move the hell out as soon as possible-- these do not sound like people you should want to live with.
posted by dersins at 1:16 PM on May 20, 2005
You say "apparently" the landlord had everyone sign a lease saying that you're all legally obligated to pay $1100 a month.
Apparently? Do you not know what you signed? I'm not trying to be snippy, I'm really confused. Can you please clarify exactly what it is you signed? If you aren't sure, you need to a) find out IMMEDIATELY what you signed and b) never, never, never sign anything without being sure what you are signing and c) see b).
Without knowing what your lease says we can't help at all. If you don't know what your lease says, you can't help yourself :)
posted by Justinian at 1:20 PM on May 20, 2005
Apparently? Do you not know what you signed? I'm not trying to be snippy, I'm really confused. Can you please clarify exactly what it is you signed? If you aren't sure, you need to a) find out IMMEDIATELY what you signed and b) never, never, never sign anything without being sure what you are signing and c) see b).
Without knowing what your lease says we can't help at all. If you don't know what your lease says, you can't help yourself :)
posted by Justinian at 1:20 PM on May 20, 2005
I would say that your beef is with the couple downstairs. If they rent an area for $500 and then sublet it for less than that, they owe the difference, not anyone else.
In terms of legality, you've signed a lease, which is a contract, so you're obliged to go through with it (unless there's a "cooling off period" enshrined in law in your area - dunno) or risk the legal ramifications of not doing so, but I'd certainly put my foot down with the couple downstairs and make them aware that you're not going to pay part of their shortfall...
posted by benzo8 at 1:21 PM on May 20, 2005
In terms of legality, you've signed a lease, which is a contract, so you're obliged to go through with it (unless there's a "cooling off period" enshrined in law in your area - dunno) or risk the legal ramifications of not doing so, but I'd certainly put my foot down with the couple downstairs and make them aware that you're not going to pay part of their shortfall...
posted by benzo8 at 1:21 PM on May 20, 2005
Did you sign a lease with the landlord or a sublease with one of the tenants?
If you signed a lease with the landlord, and if the lease provides for joint and several liability, then each tenant is individually responsible for the entire monthly rent of $1100. However much each tenant contributes to make up the $1100 is an oral side agreement. So, if you don't pay, the other tenants are going to have to make up the shortfall.
If the sublessor's name is on the lease, then he is responsible. If you signed a sublease with a tenant who moved out, agreeing to pay him $300, that is all you are legally obligated to pay. The sublessor will have to make up the shortfall with the other names on the lease.
That being said, if there is any way to pay, you should pay. It is in your best interests not to get evicted. Anyone checking your references will find out and not rent to you. This may not matter so much when you are just renting a room, but it will be very significant if you want to rent an apartment from a management company. Same goes for your credit score. I advise you not to take a scorched earth approach to this problem.
posted by Bezuhin at 1:22 PM on May 20, 2005
If you signed a lease with the landlord, and if the lease provides for joint and several liability, then each tenant is individually responsible for the entire monthly rent of $1100. However much each tenant contributes to make up the $1100 is an oral side agreement. So, if you don't pay, the other tenants are going to have to make up the shortfall.
If the sublessor's name is on the lease, then he is responsible. If you signed a sublease with a tenant who moved out, agreeing to pay him $300, that is all you are legally obligated to pay. The sublessor will have to make up the shortfall with the other names on the lease.
That being said, if there is any way to pay, you should pay. It is in your best interests not to get evicted. Anyone checking your references will find out and not rent to you. This may not matter so much when you are just renting a room, but it will be very significant if you want to rent an apartment from a management company. Same goes for your credit score. I advise you not to take a scorched earth approach to this problem.
posted by Bezuhin at 1:22 PM on May 20, 2005
I seems to me that not paying rent is the least perfect solution to the problem. If you and your roommates collectively signed a lease for $1,100 a month for X months, you're collectively bound by the terms of the lease. I doubt the landlord will be interested in selectively evicting a single roommate; I would imagine the scenario will play out with your existing roommates covering your share in order for them not to get evicted and at the same time taking you to small claims court for your share of the lease (your roommates, not your landlord.)
Your undocumented agreement of $300 a month is between you and your roommates, not between you and your landlord. Have a house meeting where you tell them that you signed the lease under the context of $300 a month, apologize to the group, and state unambiguously that you simply cannot afford $367. See if you can reach an agreement on who pays what. It might help if you're willing to barter with extra household chores for a lowered rent.
If you reach an impasse, tell them that you need to find another place to live. 30 days notice is pretty courteous, offer to help find a replacement. Be obsequious.
For next time: write the breakdown of individual roommate responsibilities for the total rent on. the. lease. Amend as roommates come and go.
(On preview: Christ, I pay more rent than that entire house for my 2BR in the Sunset. Yay San Francisco.)
posted by Loser at 1:24 PM on May 20, 2005
Your undocumented agreement of $300 a month is between you and your roommates, not between you and your landlord. Have a house meeting where you tell them that you signed the lease under the context of $300 a month, apologize to the group, and state unambiguously that you simply cannot afford $367. See if you can reach an agreement on who pays what. It might help if you're willing to barter with extra household chores for a lowered rent.
If you reach an impasse, tell them that you need to find another place to live. 30 days notice is pretty courteous, offer to help find a replacement. Be obsequious.
For next time: write the breakdown of individual roommate responsibilities for the total rent on. the. lease. Amend as roommates come and go.
(On preview: Christ, I pay more rent than that entire house for my 2BR in the Sunset. Yay San Francisco.)
posted by Loser at 1:24 PM on May 20, 2005
Response by poster: That having been said, you should try to find a replacement tenant for yourself and move the hell out as soon as possible-- these do not sound like people you should want to live with.
Thanks for the links, sounds like that's alot like what I'm looking for. Unfortunately, subleasing is NOT an option, as $367 is seriously RIDICULOUS rent for this room in this town, and no one would bite - AND it's summer in a university town, so there's no shortage of other places for people to rent, anyhow.
posted by rabble at 1:25 PM on May 20, 2005
Thanks for the links, sounds like that's alot like what I'm looking for. Unfortunately, subleasing is NOT an option, as $367 is seriously RIDICULOUS rent for this room in this town, and no one would bite - AND it's summer in a university town, so there's no shortage of other places for people to rent, anyhow.
posted by rabble at 1:25 PM on May 20, 2005
Response by poster: You say "apparently" the landlord had everyone sign a lease saying that you're all legally obligated to pay $1100 a month.
Apparently as in I know what I signed, and I just found out that "apparently" that's what the rest of them signed as well. I didn't think too much of it, because that's how I've signed leases in the past, although it was with friends that I trusted. So yeah, that was definetly a mistake on my part.
posted by rabble at 1:29 PM on May 20, 2005
Apparently as in I know what I signed, and I just found out that "apparently" that's what the rest of them signed as well. I didn't think too much of it, because that's how I've signed leases in the past, although it was with friends that I trusted. So yeah, that was definetly a mistake on my part.
posted by rabble at 1:29 PM on May 20, 2005
Response by poster: Ok then, so say I'm going to continue to pay the $300 rent that was verbally agreed to in the past, and leave it to the couple downstairs to figure out the rest...
Should I still avoid paying the deposit? I'm afraid that the landlord is going to keep it because of my refusal to pay the extra $67. Also, according to the lease I signed, I already gave him the $300 deposit, so......
posted by rabble at 1:31 PM on May 20, 2005
Should I still avoid paying the deposit? I'm afraid that the landlord is going to keep it because of my refusal to pay the extra $67. Also, according to the lease I signed, I already gave him the $300 deposit, so......
posted by rabble at 1:31 PM on May 20, 2005
If you already gave him the deposit according to the lease you signed, then the landlord is probably screwed if you don't pay.
posted by Justinian at 1:49 PM on May 20, 2005
posted by Justinian at 1:49 PM on May 20, 2005
It seems to me like the couple downstairs would be responsible for the extra. If they insist on splitting the difference couldn't you just sublet your space out for $100 a month and leave?
posted by ODiV at 2:37 PM on May 20, 2005
posted by ODiV at 2:37 PM on May 20, 2005
BTW ... assuming you're in the USA, what city & state is this in?
Wow ... $300 being considered steep ... seems like something I should look into.
$300 for a safe dwelling with walls and a roof in Los Angeles would be considered a blessing.
posted by redteam at 3:28 PM on May 20, 2005
Wow ... $300 being considered steep ... seems like something I should look into.
$300 for a safe dwelling with walls and a roof in Los Angeles would be considered a blessing.
posted by redteam at 3:28 PM on May 20, 2005
It seems to me that your best bet is to negotiate with your roommates. Since it's summer and nobody is likely to move in if you leave or get evicted, it's in their interest to have you stay or they'll be on the hook for your share of the rent. So that gives you some leverage.
Alternatively, maybe you can find somebody to share your room with for $183.50. Or for $67, for that matter.
posted by bac at 4:29 PM on May 20, 2005
Alternatively, maybe you can find somebody to share your room with for $183.50. Or for $67, for that matter.
posted by bac at 4:29 PM on May 20, 2005
Response by poster:
BTW ... assuming you're in the USA, what city & state is this in?
Small town Montana. $300/mo is about right for an equivilant room downtown, and I'm clear on the other side of town. $367/mo would not fly for this room.
If they insist on splitting the difference couldn't you just sublet your space out for $100 a month and leave?
I thought about this too, but I'm CERTAIN I couldn't get the landlord to OK that.. And as far as I know, I WOULD need his ok to sublease.
posted by rabble at 4:48 PM on May 20, 2005
BTW ... assuming you're in the USA, what city & state is this in?
Small town Montana. $300/mo is about right for an equivilant room downtown, and I'm clear on the other side of town. $367/mo would not fly for this room.
If they insist on splitting the difference couldn't you just sublet your space out for $100 a month and leave?
I thought about this too, but I'm CERTAIN I couldn't get the landlord to OK that.. And as far as I know, I WOULD need his ok to sublease.
posted by rabble at 4:48 PM on May 20, 2005
*sigh* Why do so many people want to jump straight to the most extreme option?
a) Talk to your roommates. Calmly, objectively get rid of the assumptions, "apparently"s, etc. Find out what they knew, when they knew it, and what they intend to do about it. Notice, for instance, how it also sucks for them to have a big rent increase even though they had more notice than you did. Do they really intend to let this couple get away with unfairly sticking you (all) with their bill? Instead of making this a conflict between you and your new roommates, maybe you can come together to hold this departing couple accountable for their correct share of the rent.
b) Talk to your landlord. Right away. Again, calmly gather some facts and his perspective. Do not rush into accusations, demands, or threats (especially since legally he's got every right to force your household to cough up the full amount, regardless of what private agreements were made between tenants). Even though the rent split is really not his problem from a technical standpoint, a pragmatic landlord recognizes that it's worthwhile to keep things peaceful and friendly if possible. Also, evictions are a pain in the ass for landlords, even when the case is a sure win. If there's an simpler solution you can offer, there's a good chance he'll take it.
c) Repeat a).
d) If you haven't found a fair solution yet, immediately open up your phone book and contact all the local landlord-tenant services. There should be some kind of advisory, possibly also mediation. This is really more of a tenant-tenant issue but in a college town they've probably dealth with plenty of roommate turnover disputes.
posted by nakedcodemonkey at 7:14 PM on May 20, 2005
a) Talk to your roommates. Calmly, objectively get rid of the assumptions, "apparently"s, etc. Find out what they knew, when they knew it, and what they intend to do about it. Notice, for instance, how it also sucks for them to have a big rent increase even though they had more notice than you did. Do they really intend to let this couple get away with unfairly sticking you (all) with their bill? Instead of making this a conflict between you and your new roommates, maybe you can come together to hold this departing couple accountable for their correct share of the rent.
b) Talk to your landlord. Right away. Again, calmly gather some facts and his perspective. Do not rush into accusations, demands, or threats (especially since legally he's got every right to force your household to cough up the full amount, regardless of what private agreements were made between tenants). Even though the rent split is really not his problem from a technical standpoint, a pragmatic landlord recognizes that it's worthwhile to keep things peaceful and friendly if possible. Also, evictions are a pain in the ass for landlords, even when the case is a sure win. If there's an simpler solution you can offer, there's a good chance he'll take it.
c) Repeat a).
d) If you haven't found a fair solution yet, immediately open up your phone book and contact all the local landlord-tenant services. There should be some kind of advisory, possibly also mediation. This is really more of a tenant-tenant issue but in a college town they've probably dealth with plenty of roommate turnover disputes.
posted by nakedcodemonkey at 7:14 PM on May 20, 2005
You should make sure your deposit is owed to the landlord and not the departing couple. In many shared roomate situations I have seen and been in, the original tenants pay a deposit and then the incoming roommates pay their deposit to the outgoing roomates instead of to the landlord. Of course, this can get all screwy when tthe deposit amounts don't match up [yours is $300 the outgoing peoples' is $500]. The good news is, if you can get out of paying the deposit somehow, it would give you enough money for four extra months of full-price rent.
I think nakedcodemonkey has it right on; if you don't start out thinking people are trying to screw you, you may be able to work out something more amicable. If you like the place and like the people, that may be the best way to go. Having a copy of the ad you were responding to initially ["see, here where it says $300...?"] would also help your side of the argument here if push comes to shove.
posted by jessamyn at 7:37 PM on May 20, 2005
I think nakedcodemonkey has it right on; if you don't start out thinking people are trying to screw you, you may be able to work out something more amicable. If you like the place and like the people, that may be the best way to go. Having a copy of the ad you were responding to initially ["see, here where it says $300...?"] would also help your side of the argument here if push comes to shove.
posted by jessamyn at 7:37 PM on May 20, 2005
Response by poster: Deifnetly, and I fully understand the need not to jump to the most extreme option. And I HAVE talked with the roomates, and basically what it came down to is them suggesting that I sublease (ha. ha. ha.) and also reminding me that I did sign the lease, and I am legally obligated. They are in no way sympathetic to my situation here - They figure that since everyone is LEGALLY covered, they can avoid worrying about the shadiness of the whole deal.
posted by rabble at 7:56 PM on May 20, 2005
posted by rabble at 7:56 PM on May 20, 2005
Best answer: Okay, so you've talked to the roommates and clarified where things stand with them. From their perspective, sublet is your only option. This may or may not actually be your only option, but at least you've got some facts and one (theoretical option). Now go talk to the landlord. You mentioned being "CERTAIN I couldn't get the landlord to OK that.. And as far as I know, I WOULD need his ok to sublease." That sounds like assumptions; verify the facts, and DO ask for what you want even if you're dead certain what the answer will be. Do this for a couple reasons: first, any dedicated* salesman will tell you if you ask enough times, nearly any no can be turned into a yes. So if you've asked once, ask again today. If that fails, politely ask again tomorrow. Just keep it civil and constructive. Second reason to make your request: if you do force this all the way to an eviction proceeding, at least be able to demonstrate to the court that you'd exhausted other reasonable courses of action. If the landlord granted the other couple permission to sublet but flatly refused to allow you as another signatory to do the same, maybe (IANAL) that's a defense that can save you from a big judgement (don't forget about court costs and legal fees coming out of the losing party's pocket).
* read: annoying but successful
By the way, if you do determine that breaking the lease is your best bet, talk to an attorney (a local legal aid society can usually give you free/cheap advice on landlord-tenant if you meet the low income guidelines) IMMEDIATELY. Speaking from the landlord perspective, rarely does a broken lease get as far as a courtroom, much less judgement and eviction (eviction=sherrif shows up, tosses you and your stuff on the sidewalk, padlocks the door; your credit record gets stamped "eviction" for the next 7 years--it's not just one more debt to add to the list). If you're going to break the lease, do yourself the favor of minimizing the fallout on your own life. An eviction is BIG fallout.
posted by nakedcodemonkey at 8:28 PM on May 20, 2005
* read: annoying but successful
By the way, if you do determine that breaking the lease is your best bet, talk to an attorney (a local legal aid society can usually give you free/cheap advice on landlord-tenant if you meet the low income guidelines) IMMEDIATELY. Speaking from the landlord perspective, rarely does a broken lease get as far as a courtroom, much less judgement and eviction (eviction=sherrif shows up, tosses you and your stuff on the sidewalk, padlocks the door; your credit record gets stamped "eviction" for the next 7 years--it's not just one more debt to add to the list). If you're going to break the lease, do yourself the favor of minimizing the fallout on your own life. An eviction is BIG fallout.
posted by nakedcodemonkey at 8:28 PM on May 20, 2005
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by rabble at 12:37 PM on May 20, 2005