How soon would you go?
June 28, 2011 6:31 PM Subscribe
How acceptable would you find this situation if you were renting?
To start, I'm in Vancouver, BC living in the basement suite of a 'character' house if it helps anyone any.
So the refrigerator broke down with the landlady away on extended holiday. In reality, the power went off (a microwave and a kettle somehow set the breaker off) and it took almost a day and a half for her to get in contact and reach the person she had hired to take care of the house. We couldn't fix it, as she locks the door to the breaker/laundry room to keep us out. Then it took another two days before she responded to our emails about the refrigerator not working before someone came out to take a look at that.
At the end of it all, the three of us in the suite lost between $30 and $90 each in groceries and were understandably pissed. The landlady has rebuffed our requests for even partial recompense, claiming that it was our fault with us arguing that we should have had access to the breaker box or at the very least a faster response time on her end.
Compounding this: the internet shuts off irregularly for five to ten minutes (very annoying interruption when you're trying to do something), the floor and the baseboards have peeled away over multiple foot long sections letting in tons of silverfish and pill bugs and spiders and things, there are gaps in the walls in some of the corners that go right into the interior of the walls, there's no fan for ventilation in the bathroom with the shower, there's now mold creeping across the ceiling of the bathroom, and the furnishings are not in the greatest of condition (pots and pans are peeling metal on their bottoms, chairs are visibly repaired with electrical tape, etc.).
What would you do if the landlady then had the temerity to tell you that you aren't being clean enough? Leave immediately without giving her the requisite 1 month (there was no contract signed, just a damage deposit I'm willing to leave) or wait it out for a month?
I saw this coming over the weekend, so I've already been looking at various rooms, getting a handle on which are available now and which are available in August so I'm not hanging myself out to dry in either case.
I feel pissed off, should I be when the cleaning hasn't really been that bad?
To start, I'm in Vancouver, BC living in the basement suite of a 'character' house if it helps anyone any.
So the refrigerator broke down with the landlady away on extended holiday. In reality, the power went off (a microwave and a kettle somehow set the breaker off) and it took almost a day and a half for her to get in contact and reach the person she had hired to take care of the house. We couldn't fix it, as she locks the door to the breaker/laundry room to keep us out. Then it took another two days before she responded to our emails about the refrigerator not working before someone came out to take a look at that.
At the end of it all, the three of us in the suite lost between $30 and $90 each in groceries and were understandably pissed. The landlady has rebuffed our requests for even partial recompense, claiming that it was our fault with us arguing that we should have had access to the breaker box or at the very least a faster response time on her end.
Compounding this: the internet shuts off irregularly for five to ten minutes (very annoying interruption when you're trying to do something), the floor and the baseboards have peeled away over multiple foot long sections letting in tons of silverfish and pill bugs and spiders and things, there are gaps in the walls in some of the corners that go right into the interior of the walls, there's no fan for ventilation in the bathroom with the shower, there's now mold creeping across the ceiling of the bathroom, and the furnishings are not in the greatest of condition (pots and pans are peeling metal on their bottoms, chairs are visibly repaired with electrical tape, etc.).
What would you do if the landlady then had the temerity to tell you that you aren't being clean enough? Leave immediately without giving her the requisite 1 month (there was no contract signed, just a damage deposit I'm willing to leave) or wait it out for a month?
I saw this coming over the weekend, so I've already been looking at various rooms, getting a handle on which are available now and which are available in August so I'm not hanging myself out to dry in either case.
I feel pissed off, should I be when the cleaning hasn't really been that bad?
Leave. Don't look back, but the way you worded this question makes me think you had already decided to do that and were just looking for reassurance.
posted by TheBones at 6:38 PM on June 28, 2011
posted by TheBones at 6:38 PM on June 28, 2011
Response by poster: Let me be a little more specific: its not stalactites of mold, its just spots of mold that are extending slowly from one wall along the ceiling above the shower curtain.
posted by Slackermagee at 6:38 PM on June 28, 2011
posted by Slackermagee at 6:38 PM on June 28, 2011
Yeah, this is absolutely unacceptable---where I live, at least, any one of those things you mentioned (insects, mold, &c.) would be enough to have the place declared uninhabitable. If you never signed a lease agreement with her, I say run.
posted by nerdinexile at 6:38 PM on June 28, 2011
posted by nerdinexile at 6:38 PM on June 28, 2011
No contract? Leave, and get all your stuff fumigated / dry cleaned.
posted by obiwanwasabi at 6:50 PM on June 28, 2011
posted by obiwanwasabi at 6:50 PM on June 28, 2011
You have two things working against you. Your landlady is extremely unreasonable and you are living in a bug and mold-infested shithole. Do not wait. Move now. You deserve better.
posted by futureisunwritten at 6:54 PM on June 28, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by futureisunwritten at 6:54 PM on June 28, 2011 [1 favorite]
Best answer: How acceptable would you find this situation if you were renting?
Un. I would find unacceptable.
Find a new place, call your friend with a truck, pack and move.
posted by mhoye at 6:57 PM on June 28, 2011
Un. I would find unacceptable.
Find a new place, call your friend with a truck, pack and move.
posted by mhoye at 6:57 PM on June 28, 2011
Move at will.
If you want to be a real PITA, don't be afraid to take pics of the mold, lack of fan, bugs, damaged floors, document the rest, include a copy of the original advert for the apartment (she'll likely post again with a new advert after you've left if you don't have a copy of that) and report her and her property to the relevant housing authority. Go ahead and claim the return of your deposit in your complaint.
You may not get the deposit back, be she WILL get inspected by the relevant housing authority.
That's worth something, yes?
posted by jbenben at 7:02 PM on June 28, 2011 [1 favorite]
If you want to be a real PITA, don't be afraid to take pics of the mold, lack of fan, bugs, damaged floors, document the rest, include a copy of the original advert for the apartment (she'll likely post again with a new advert after you've left if you don't have a copy of that) and report her and her property to the relevant housing authority. Go ahead and claim the return of your deposit in your complaint.
You may not get the deposit back, be she WILL get inspected by the relevant housing authority.
That's worth something, yes?
posted by jbenben at 7:02 PM on June 28, 2011 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Well, I don't want to be a pain, I just want out now. It will be enough for me to suggest that she use the damage deposit to cover getting functional baseboards and a fan for the bathroom. I mean, there's a heat/AC vent right over the back of the shower/tub thing. Why isn't that a fan.
posted by Slackermagee at 7:07 PM on June 28, 2011
posted by Slackermagee at 7:07 PM on June 28, 2011
Is the apartment even legal? There are a lot of basements suites in Vancouver that are not permitted by the city bylaws which is something you should keep in mind if she gives you any trouble.
I think you should leave and not look back.
posted by SpaceWarp13 at 7:11 PM on June 28, 2011
I think you should leave and not look back.
posted by SpaceWarp13 at 7:11 PM on June 28, 2011
Sounds pretty unreasonable. It must be awful to live there in the winter!
Before you do anything, it may be wise to consult the BC Residential Tenancy Branch's website.
posted by KokuRyu at 7:32 PM on June 28, 2011
Before you do anything, it may be wise to consult the BC Residential Tenancy Branch's website.
posted by KokuRyu at 7:32 PM on June 28, 2011
Congratulations: you're paying rent to a slumlord.
I think you're probably out of luck getting any money for the food, but the floors, mold, internet issues are not acceptable. Be aware that you will almost certainly lose your deposit money.
I was in a similar situation before, but with the added enjoyment of rats in the kitchen and a stove I wouldn't touch with a long pole.
When I reported a pinhole leak in a bathtub pipe, I came home one day to find my bathroom floor disassembled and my toilet in the back yard. The shady guy fixing the issue couldn't tell me when he'd be done. After several frustrating phone calls, I packed up all my stuff, found another place, and said goodbye to my deposit.
My point is that this is just going to continue, so you should get while the gettin' is good.
posted by Gilbert at 7:48 PM on June 28, 2011
I think you're probably out of luck getting any money for the food, but the floors, mold, internet issues are not acceptable. Be aware that you will almost certainly lose your deposit money.
I was in a similar situation before, but with the added enjoyment of rats in the kitchen and a stove I wouldn't touch with a long pole.
When I reported a pinhole leak in a bathtub pipe, I came home one day to find my bathroom floor disassembled and my toilet in the back yard. The shady guy fixing the issue couldn't tell me when he'd be done. After several frustrating phone calls, I packed up all my stuff, found another place, and said goodbye to my deposit.
My point is that this is just going to continue, so you should get while the gettin' is good.
posted by Gilbert at 7:48 PM on June 28, 2011
Leave. And take photographs and send them to the city. It won't achieve anything, but at least it might put her on a list somewhere should others complain.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 7:52 PM on June 28, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by lesbiassparrow at 7:52 PM on June 28, 2011 [3 favorites]
Long long time Vancouver renter here. Step one is to read the residential tenancy act, linked above. Read it again; it's your bible here.
You never signed a lease, at all? If it were me, and I was you, I'd personally just leave. Forfeit the damage deposit, and get the hell out. YMMV, of course. If she did decide to try and sue you for unpaid rent, well... you can deal with it then. (But don't blame me!) I highly doubt she would go after you, but she might be in her rights to do so without 30 days notice. IIRC the RTA applies even if there is no paperwork. This also prevents her from dumping all your stuff on the sidewalk.
If you give your 30 days notice and have a defacto month to month lease (which I assume yours is, again, paperwork?) then she owes you the rental deposit, less any damages you caused, not including normal wear and tear. Of course, without proof, she may try and pin stuff on you - arbitration through the RTA would most likely be the route you'd have to go though here to fight this, if you were so inclined.
You might also have recourse for the damages caused by her negligence, again, read the RTA. If so, whether or not you can be bothered fighting that fight is up to you, if it's applicable. However, it might be worth a phone call to the RTA, to just ask their advice and to let them know what's going on. Note that they are overworked and understaffed, so don't be expecting too much to be done by them in a timely manner.
Long story short - i think you technically have to give a full 30 day rental period, but the fight for her would be a long one to get any recourse if you didn't. I'd just leave.
This is also exactly why I will never, even rent from anyone other than a property management company ever again. However, i've lived in a lot of crappy places before having enough money to afford that luxury.
posted by cgg at 7:56 PM on June 28, 2011
You never signed a lease, at all? If it were me, and I was you, I'd personally just leave. Forfeit the damage deposit, and get the hell out. YMMV, of course. If she did decide to try and sue you for unpaid rent, well... you can deal with it then. (But don't blame me!) I highly doubt she would go after you, but she might be in her rights to do so without 30 days notice. IIRC the RTA applies even if there is no paperwork. This also prevents her from dumping all your stuff on the sidewalk.
If you give your 30 days notice and have a defacto month to month lease (which I assume yours is, again, paperwork?) then she owes you the rental deposit, less any damages you caused, not including normal wear and tear. Of course, without proof, she may try and pin stuff on you - arbitration through the RTA would most likely be the route you'd have to go though here to fight this, if you were so inclined.
You might also have recourse for the damages caused by her negligence, again, read the RTA. If so, whether or not you can be bothered fighting that fight is up to you, if it's applicable. However, it might be worth a phone call to the RTA, to just ask their advice and to let them know what's going on. Note that they are overworked and understaffed, so don't be expecting too much to be done by them in a timely manner.
Long story short - i think you technically have to give a full 30 day rental period, but the fight for her would be a long one to get any recourse if you didn't. I'd just leave.
This is also exactly why I will never, even rent from anyone other than a property management company ever again. However, i've lived in a lot of crappy places before having enough money to afford that luxury.
posted by cgg at 7:56 PM on June 28, 2011
I would not pay my rent on July 1st. I would look for a new room taking my time to find the right one. Then I would leave with no notice. Even if it were the end of July, I would not pay her July rent.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 8:38 PM on June 28, 2011
posted by JohnnyGunn at 8:38 PM on June 28, 2011
You need to pay your rent on July 1st if you continue to occupy the suite. Witholding rent while residing in the suite will allow the landlord to go nuclear on you via the Residential Tenancy Branch.
posted by KokuRyu at 10:04 PM on June 28, 2011
posted by KokuRyu at 10:04 PM on June 28, 2011
Best answer: "In reality, the power went off (a microwave and a kettle somehow set the breaker off)"
Either of these items basically fully load a standard breaker. Operating both of them together along with the fridge is going to trip a breaker.
"there's no fan for ventilation in the bathroom with the shower"
FYI: As long as there is a window that opens this isn't a building code violation.
"What would you do if the landlady then had the temerity to tell you that you aren't being clean enough?"
Ignore it unless I wasn't actually being clean.
"Leave immediately without giving her the requisite 1 month (there was no contract signed, just a damage deposit I'm willing to leave)"
Assuming the extensive problems either existed when you moved in (taped up chairs, missing baseboards, no bathroom fan etc.) or at least didn't just appear in the last couple of weeks I'd feel ethically constrained to give a months notice. Especially if you haven't made the landlord aware of the problems. After all they can't fix something they don't know about. Legally you are required to give 30 days in BC even if you haven't signed a lease or rental agreement.
corey flood writes "Even if you stayed for another month, you probably won't be getting your deposit back unless you took very, very detailed pictures/video of the place before you moved in, and even then she'd probably cook up some accusation that you damaged the place."
BC has very pro tenant DD legislation. The landlord is required to keep a copy of a pre-rental property inspection signed by the renter detailing the condition of the property. They can't keep any portion of the damage deposit if they don't have that document and it should layout any pre-existing damage. Much of the other damage is not something caused by the OP and therefor wouldn't be deductible. Landlords are required to give an accounting of the deductions if they take any and the renter can appeal those deductions to the RTA.
If you don't pay your rent July 1st you can be evicted on the 5th and the Landlord can take you to court to recover not only July's rent but also filing fees even if you move out on July 6th.
posted by Mitheral at 2:17 AM on June 29, 2011
Either of these items basically fully load a standard breaker. Operating both of them together along with the fridge is going to trip a breaker.
"there's no fan for ventilation in the bathroom with the shower"
FYI: As long as there is a window that opens this isn't a building code violation.
"What would you do if the landlady then had the temerity to tell you that you aren't being clean enough?"
Ignore it unless I wasn't actually being clean.
"Leave immediately without giving her the requisite 1 month (there was no contract signed, just a damage deposit I'm willing to leave)"
Assuming the extensive problems either existed when you moved in (taped up chairs, missing baseboards, no bathroom fan etc.) or at least didn't just appear in the last couple of weeks I'd feel ethically constrained to give a months notice. Especially if you haven't made the landlord aware of the problems. After all they can't fix something they don't know about. Legally you are required to give 30 days in BC even if you haven't signed a lease or rental agreement.
corey flood writes "Even if you stayed for another month, you probably won't be getting your deposit back unless you took very, very detailed pictures/video of the place before you moved in, and even then she'd probably cook up some accusation that you damaged the place."
BC has very pro tenant DD legislation. The landlord is required to keep a copy of a pre-rental property inspection signed by the renter detailing the condition of the property. They can't keep any portion of the damage deposit if they don't have that document and it should layout any pre-existing damage. Much of the other damage is not something caused by the OP and therefor wouldn't be deductible. Landlords are required to give an accounting of the deductions if they take any and the renter can appeal those deductions to the RTA.
If you don't pay your rent July 1st you can be evicted on the 5th and the Landlord can take you to court to recover not only July's rent but also filing fees even if you move out on July 6th.
posted by Mitheral at 2:17 AM on June 29, 2011
I confess that I don't fully understand the situation. You're renting pots and pans from this woman? I've heard of furnished apartments, but kitchenware? She's paying for your Internet service? Are these common tenant/landlord arrangements in BC?
At any rate, though: I would find this situation completely unacceptable. A landlord is bound by common decency (ha! ha!)—if not law—to provide tenants with reliable electricity and a dwelling free of mold and insect infestations.
I've been in a similar situation (in the United States). I fought tooth and nail with my landlady, stopping just short of hiring a lawyer. I accomplished nothing.
The applicable tenant law may be different in your area, but I found that I had few legal rights and even less practical recourse. The landlords are the ones with the money and the connections, so they influence the law.
If you have time, sleep, and (probably) money to spare, you can try fighting her. Look up the local laws and get some idea what your landlady's legal obligations are. Then take a day off work (this project can easily become a full-time job) and call every state and local government agency in the phone book. Try to schedule inspections. (You may need different inspectors, from different agencies, to look at different problems. And you may have to pay government-approved commercial inspectors to perform the inspections.)
Or, you could make it much easier on yourself, and do what I did: move out. Even if you win, do you really want to live there? It sounds like a miserable shithole. You could maybe force your landlady to fix a few of the problems, but there would still be things wrong, and you'd be paying rent to a landlady who hates you (and would be looking for the first excuse to evict you anyway).
I would not pay my rent on July 1st. I would look for a new room taking my time to find the right one. Then I would leave with no notice. Even if it were the end of July, I would not pay her July rent.
This is an extremely bad idea. This puts you in clear violation of the terms of your lease, makes you the bad guy as far as the law is concerned, and gives your landlady freedom to fuck with you even more than she already is (or to kick you out). Any tenant's rights organization will tell you that withholding rent is a suicidal tactic. It might seem just, but what matters is what the law sees as just.
posted by ixohoxi at 6:41 AM on June 29, 2011
At any rate, though: I would find this situation completely unacceptable. A landlord is bound by common decency (ha! ha!)—if not law—to provide tenants with reliable electricity and a dwelling free of mold and insect infestations.
I've been in a similar situation (in the United States). I fought tooth and nail with my landlady, stopping just short of hiring a lawyer. I accomplished nothing.
The applicable tenant law may be different in your area, but I found that I had few legal rights and even less practical recourse. The landlords are the ones with the money and the connections, so they influence the law.
If you have time, sleep, and (probably) money to spare, you can try fighting her. Look up the local laws and get some idea what your landlady's legal obligations are. Then take a day off work (this project can easily become a full-time job) and call every state and local government agency in the phone book. Try to schedule inspections. (You may need different inspectors, from different agencies, to look at different problems. And you may have to pay government-approved commercial inspectors to perform the inspections.)
Or, you could make it much easier on yourself, and do what I did: move out. Even if you win, do you really want to live there? It sounds like a miserable shithole. You could maybe force your landlady to fix a few of the problems, but there would still be things wrong, and you'd be paying rent to a landlady who hates you (and would be looking for the first excuse to evict you anyway).
I would not pay my rent on July 1st. I would look for a new room taking my time to find the right one. Then I would leave with no notice. Even if it were the end of July, I would not pay her July rent.
This is an extremely bad idea. This puts you in clear violation of the terms of your lease, makes you the bad guy as far as the law is concerned, and gives your landlady freedom to fuck with you even more than she already is (or to kick you out). Any tenant's rights organization will tell you that withholding rent is a suicidal tactic. It might seem just, but what matters is what the law sees as just.
posted by ixohoxi at 6:41 AM on June 29, 2011
Response by poster: Thanks everyone for the advice, landlady told me later last night that the electricity usage in the house had doubled and was thinking that we shouldn't be using whatever supercomputer we just secretly installed.
But that's not double from last month, that's double from the winter months. And we haven't installed anything new or bought any new toys (students, duuuh). Sooooo... that's more than a little worrying to me as well.
posted by Slackermagee at 8:28 AM on June 29, 2011
But that's not double from last month, that's double from the winter months. And we haven't installed anything new or bought any new toys (students, duuuh). Sooooo... that's more than a little worrying to me as well.
posted by Slackermagee at 8:28 AM on June 29, 2011
Response by poster: Alright, problem resolved: emailed the landlady and told her I was moving out and leaving the damage deposit. She agreed, so I guess its live and let lie without any housing authority action needed.
posted by Slackermagee at 12:20 PM on June 29, 2011
posted by Slackermagee at 12:20 PM on June 29, 2011
This thread is closed to new comments.
Even if you stayed for another month, you probably won't be getting your deposit back unless you took very, very detailed pictures/video of the place before you moved in, and even then she'd probably cook up some accusation that you damaged the place.
Go now before you breathe any more mold.
posted by corey flood at 6:36 PM on June 28, 2011