How to deal with a fraudulent landlord?
June 15, 2011 8:26 PM Subscribe
We paid for the last month of our apartment lease, but we moved out the month before. We just found out someone has been living in our apartment during that last month. What can we do?
Our apartment lease technically ends at the end of June. We called the landlord in March and told him we were leaving a month early and asked if we could have some kind of discount for that last month. Since we wouldn't use any electricity, he agreed to lower the rent by that amount.
We moved out 400 miles away at the end of May and gave back the keys, but kept our duplicates just in case.
I now have my mail forwarded and I received a letter that shouldn't have been forwarded, but was because the person has a similar name. I opened the letter and it was a "welcome to our credit union" letter. That made me suspicious that someone else is living in our apartment.
I'm back in the previous city for a few days and today I went to my old place to see what's going on. I knocked on the door, no response. I took my keys and unlocked the door: someone is living there! I took a picture, locked the door, left a note that said "hello, I'm the previous tenant, could you please call me" and left.
I would like to know if I had the right to go in? I paid for this month, so it should still be my place. But on the other hand, I gave back the keys, which implicitly means that I gave up any responsibility if something was to happen.
Obviously I'm going to call the landlord and ask him what's going on and demand a refund for the last month. Should I first wait for a call from the new tenant? What else should I do? I'm willing to put a lot of energy into this.
I'm posting anonymously because I've exchanged emails with the landlord before and I used the same email address as this account.
Our apartment lease technically ends at the end of June. We called the landlord in March and told him we were leaving a month early and asked if we could have some kind of discount for that last month. Since we wouldn't use any electricity, he agreed to lower the rent by that amount.
We moved out 400 miles away at the end of May and gave back the keys, but kept our duplicates just in case.
I now have my mail forwarded and I received a letter that shouldn't have been forwarded, but was because the person has a similar name. I opened the letter and it was a "welcome to our credit union" letter. That made me suspicious that someone else is living in our apartment.
I'm back in the previous city for a few days and today I went to my old place to see what's going on. I knocked on the door, no response. I took my keys and unlocked the door: someone is living there! I took a picture, locked the door, left a note that said "hello, I'm the previous tenant, could you please call me" and left.
I would like to know if I had the right to go in? I paid for this month, so it should still be my place. But on the other hand, I gave back the keys, which implicitly means that I gave up any responsibility if something was to happen.
Obviously I'm going to call the landlord and ask him what's going on and demand a refund for the last month. Should I first wait for a call from the new tenant? What else should I do? I'm willing to put a lot of energy into this.
I'm posting anonymously because I've exchanged emails with the landlord before and I used the same email address as this account.
I'd call the landlord and tell him that you became aware that the property has been occupied for the some portion of the month you've paid for, and that you'd like a pro-rata refund for that portion of the month, as doubling up on rent is ethically dubious. I would provide as little information as is necessary - simply state the facts, and state your request.
If it's denied, then you can start chasing down renters rights groups. But the best, easiest, and fastest place to start is simply by asking, as what you're asking for is probably the very best possible outcome of litigation (the worst, hardest, and slowest avenue).
posted by TheNewWazoo at 8:42 PM on June 15, 2011 [1 favorite]
If it's denied, then you can start chasing down renters rights groups. But the best, easiest, and fastest place to start is simply by asking, as what you're asking for is probably the very best possible outcome of litigation (the worst, hardest, and slowest avenue).
posted by TheNewWazoo at 8:42 PM on June 15, 2011 [1 favorite]
Welll... if you had a lease, you are technically agreeing to pay for the entire year, in installments. Getting out early does not relieve you of your obligation to pay up to the end of the lease, so you have to pay regardless of whether you intend to stay or not. Since you have vacated he has every right to rent it out to someone else.
posted by brownrd at 8:45 PM on June 15, 2011 [6 favorites]
posted by brownrd at 8:45 PM on June 15, 2011 [6 favorites]
Read your lease. You were legally required to pay the June rent whether you lived there or not. In many jurisdictions handing over the keys = vacating. After vacating, the landlord leased the apartment to someone else.
The creepy part is the landlord didn't change the locks. If someone (an ex-tenant) came into my apartment with their own key I'd be pissed.
posted by birdherder at 8:46 PM on June 15, 2011 [5 favorites]
The creepy part is the landlord didn't change the locks. If someone (an ex-tenant) came into my apartment with their own key I'd be pissed.
posted by birdherder at 8:46 PM on June 15, 2011 [5 favorites]
As usual without location info this question cannot be answered. In some jurisdictions birdherder and brownrd are right and the landlord was within his rights; in other jurisdictions what the landlord has done is illegal. You should consult a renters' rights group in your city and see what the rules are in your jurisdiction to find out how to proceed.
posted by gerryblog at 8:49 PM on June 15, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by gerryblog at 8:49 PM on June 15, 2011 [2 favorites]
In any discussion you have with the landlord might want to leave out the part about entering the apt until you figure out whether what the landlord did was illegal. Just so you don't admit to doing something illegal yourself.
posted by oneear at 8:51 PM on June 15, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by oneear at 8:51 PM on June 15, 2011 [2 favorites]
I took my keys and unlocked the door: someone is living there! I took a picture, locked the door, left a note that said "hello, I'm the previous tenant, could you please call me" and left.
This was a mistake and potentially trespassing depending on where you are. By returning the keys you essentially vacated the property. You could, just as easily, have held on to the keys (i.e. your lease on the property) and mailed it back by July 1 thereby terminating the agreement.
Contact a tenant rights office of your county and call them first thing tomorrow for more information.
posted by babbyʼ); Drop table users; -- at 8:52 PM on June 15, 2011 [1 favorite]
This was a mistake and potentially trespassing depending on where you are. By returning the keys you essentially vacated the property. You could, just as easily, have held on to the keys (i.e. your lease on the property) and mailed it back by July 1 thereby terminating the agreement.
Contact a tenant rights office of your county and call them first thing tomorrow for more information.
posted by babbyʼ); Drop table users; -- at 8:52 PM on June 15, 2011 [1 favorite]
In any discussion you have with the landlord might want to leave out the part about entering the apt
A bit late since OP left a note in there to the current tenant.
posted by babbyʼ); Drop table users; -- at 8:53 PM on June 15, 2011
....a fraudulent landlord
gave back the keys, but kept our duplicates just in case
It's not the landlord who's been doing shady stuff here. Good grief. Tread very carefully.
I took a picture, locked the door, left a note that said "hello, I'm the previous tenant, could you please call me"
How would you feel if this happened to you? Somebody hid from the landlord that they hung onto a spare set of keys, and this person entered your apartment, and, on realising they were in somebody's home, they did not beat a hasty retreat but instead: took pictures and left a note? This was a terrible thing to do to the wholly innocent new tenant, whose sense of privacy and security has undoubtedly been violated. On receiving a note like that I suspect I might telephone not the number on the paper, but the police.
posted by kmennie at 9:04 PM on June 15, 2011 [22 favorites]
gave back the keys, but kept our duplicates just in case
It's not the landlord who's been doing shady stuff here. Good grief. Tread very carefully.
I took a picture, locked the door, left a note that said "hello, I'm the previous tenant, could you please call me"
How would you feel if this happened to you? Somebody hid from the landlord that they hung onto a spare set of keys, and this person entered your apartment, and, on realising they were in somebody's home, they did not beat a hasty retreat but instead: took pictures and left a note? This was a terrible thing to do to the wholly innocent new tenant, whose sense of privacy and security has undoubtedly been violated. On receiving a note like that I suspect I might telephone not the number on the paper, but the police.
posted by kmennie at 9:04 PM on June 15, 2011 [22 favorites]
I think the OP left a note on the exterior of the apartment. She locked the door, then left the note. Yes, it was wrong to enter and take pictures, but the current tenant probably didn't find a note on her coffee table.
posted by plaintiff6r at 9:24 PM on June 15, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by plaintiff6r at 9:24 PM on June 15, 2011 [1 favorite]
I think these responses are unnecessarily harsh, from an ethical perspective if not a legal one, which I am not qualified to espouse upon but am going to speculate anyway.
OP gave the keys back to the landlord because s/he was leaving and it was convenient. I don't see why this should mean OP is necessarily ceding rights to the apartment; they paid for it, after all. The terms of the lease are that the tenant has rights to use the apartment for the duration of the lease. I could rent an apartment tomorrow and never live in it at all if I so chose. I could move in, then move out for six months, then move back in again. That doesn't mean the landlord has the right to re-rent it during the time it happens to be vacant.
Also, my understanding (though this stuff also varies state by state) has been that if a tenant breaks a lease the landlord can find a replacement – which releases the tenant from the terms of the lease. It's either/or, they can't simultaneously have two tenants.
I agree that leaving the note for the other tenant was probably unwise. The best course of action would probably have been to call the landlord and say, "Hey, is anyone living in the apartment? Because I drove by and the lights were on." Something like that.
Given the situation you find yourself in, I would definitely wait a few days for the tenant to call you. That way, if/when they do call, you can figure out if they've spoken to the landlord about it. If not... then you're back to square one and you can confront the landlord about it while taking the high road. If they have spoken and landlord knows you went inside, then you still can claim (as sounds to be true) that you didn't intend to break in but thought you were merely accessing your own apartment.
Ethically it seems pretty clear that the landlord should not be getting this windfall and you're entitled to your money back, the legality of your decision to enter the apartment notwithstanding.
posted by dixiecupdrinking at 9:25 PM on June 15, 2011 [3 favorites]
OP gave the keys back to the landlord because s/he was leaving and it was convenient. I don't see why this should mean OP is necessarily ceding rights to the apartment; they paid for it, after all. The terms of the lease are that the tenant has rights to use the apartment for the duration of the lease. I could rent an apartment tomorrow and never live in it at all if I so chose. I could move in, then move out for six months, then move back in again. That doesn't mean the landlord has the right to re-rent it during the time it happens to be vacant.
Also, my understanding (though this stuff also varies state by state) has been that if a tenant breaks a lease the landlord can find a replacement – which releases the tenant from the terms of the lease. It's either/or, they can't simultaneously have two tenants.
I agree that leaving the note for the other tenant was probably unwise. The best course of action would probably have been to call the landlord and say, "Hey, is anyone living in the apartment? Because I drove by and the lights were on." Something like that.
Given the situation you find yourself in, I would definitely wait a few days for the tenant to call you. That way, if/when they do call, you can figure out if they've spoken to the landlord about it. If not... then you're back to square one and you can confront the landlord about it while taking the high road. If they have spoken and landlord knows you went inside, then you still can claim (as sounds to be true) that you didn't intend to break in but thought you were merely accessing your own apartment.
Ethically it seems pretty clear that the landlord should not be getting this windfall and you're entitled to your money back, the legality of your decision to enter the apartment notwithstanding.
posted by dixiecupdrinking at 9:25 PM on June 15, 2011 [3 favorites]
This read like a bad law school exam question. The only person that can answer this question is a lawyer in your jurisdiction. Landlord-tenant law is hyper-local, in some states the landlord is probably perfectly within his rights to re-rent the place, you turned in the keys. Somewhere else you might be entitled to a refund, after you sue the landlord and pay the lawyer of course. Or make a special 400 mile trip to appear in small claims court.
Unless your rent was several thousand dollars a month, I doubt it's worth your time and money to fight for a refund. Contact a tenant's right organization as mentioned above if you really want to, they may have some advice. But you could just as easily be cited for trespassing or B&E as get your rent money back.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:34 PM on June 15, 2011 [4 favorites]
Unless your rent was several thousand dollars a month, I doubt it's worth your time and money to fight for a refund. Contact a tenant's right organization as mentioned above if you really want to, they may have some advice. But you could just as easily be cited for trespassing or B&E as get your rent money back.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:34 PM on June 15, 2011 [4 favorites]
Even in Texas there are laws on the books that prohibit collecting double rent on a unit due to an overlapping tenancy. And it's a state that's not well known for it's tenants rights. I would be very surprised if your jurisdiction does not have a similar provision in place.
Another issue is that many jurisdictions require a changing of the locks between tenants.
My personal position (as IANAL) is that you had a legitimate reason to believe that your lease was still in effect, having paid rent for the month and did not receive any notice of a sub-tenant. The landlord was in the wrong when he took your money and looked for a new tenant before the lease was up.
The only caveat is how you handled the reduced rent. Is it clearly stated that it's due to an expected reduction in electricity? Or could he weasel and say that it was rent for a partial month, while the other tenant paid rent for the second half of the month.
posted by politikitty at 9:35 PM on June 15, 2011 [1 favorite]
Another issue is that many jurisdictions require a changing of the locks between tenants.
My personal position (as IANAL) is that you had a legitimate reason to believe that your lease was still in effect, having paid rent for the month and did not receive any notice of a sub-tenant. The landlord was in the wrong when he took your money and looked for a new tenant before the lease was up.
The only caveat is how you handled the reduced rent. Is it clearly stated that it's due to an expected reduction in electricity? Or could he weasel and say that it was rent for a partial month, while the other tenant paid rent for the second half of the month.
posted by politikitty at 9:35 PM on June 15, 2011 [1 favorite]
Not a lawyer! Not your lawyer!
How to deal with a fraudulent landlord?
Depending on how much you want to spend, you can either hire an attorney or you can do some research yourself to determine whether in your state landlords have a duty to mitigate damages caused by tenants breaking their lease. In most (if not all) states, landlords can't just take your rent after you leave no matter what the lease says; they have to actively try to fill the empty apartment and charge you only their loss (i.e. what it cost them to have the apartment sit empty). If this is indeed the law in your state, you can discuss that with your landlord and see if they'll refund you the appropriate amount. If not, you can escalate by filing in small claims court.
The advice to consult a local renter's rights organization is sound.
I would like to know if I had the right to go in?
I would be shocked if you did. The current tenant has a right to privacy in his/her home.
posted by prefpara at 9:36 PM on June 15, 2011
How to deal with a fraudulent landlord?
Depending on how much you want to spend, you can either hire an attorney or you can do some research yourself to determine whether in your state landlords have a duty to mitigate damages caused by tenants breaking their lease. In most (if not all) states, landlords can't just take your rent after you leave no matter what the lease says; they have to actively try to fill the empty apartment and charge you only their loss (i.e. what it cost them to have the apartment sit empty). If this is indeed the law in your state, you can discuss that with your landlord and see if they'll refund you the appropriate amount. If not, you can escalate by filing in small claims court.
The advice to consult a local renter's rights organization is sound.
I would like to know if I had the right to go in?
I would be shocked if you did. The current tenant has a right to privacy in his/her home.
posted by prefpara at 9:36 PM on June 15, 2011
I don't know your jurisdiction, but as a former landlord, I think what your landlord did was TOTALLY LEGAL.
Except the not changing the locks part. That part sucks (but is oh so freakin' common!)
You ended your tenancy early. Landlord is free to do whatever he wants with his property. You officially vacated, the discounted money you paid in rent was a penalty fee (of sorts) for vacating early. The last month's discounted rent you paid was you fulfilling your end of the original contract, the lease.
Go ahead an fact check for your jurisdiction, but really, you have no claim here.
posted by jbenben at 10:16 PM on June 15, 2011
Except the not changing the locks part. That part sucks (but is oh so freakin' common!)
You ended your tenancy early. Landlord is free to do whatever he wants with his property. You officially vacated, the discounted money you paid in rent was a penalty fee (of sorts) for vacating early. The last month's discounted rent you paid was you fulfilling your end of the original contract, the lease.
Go ahead an fact check for your jurisdiction, but really, you have no claim here.
posted by jbenben at 10:16 PM on June 15, 2011
Upon preview, prefpara may have a point. But my understanding is different, depending on the jurisdiction.
posted by jbenben at 10:18 PM on June 15, 2011
posted by jbenben at 10:18 PM on June 15, 2011
What damage have you suffered here?
posted by pompomtom at 10:53 PM on June 15, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by pompomtom at 10:53 PM on June 15, 2011 [1 favorite]
The "loss" is that the tenant has paid for a tenancy which the landlord had in fact given to someone else. The landlord has had the benefit of two lots of rent for the same period. In some jurisdictions, had the tenant witheld the last month's rent, they could defend a legal claim for it on the grounds that the landlord has already mitigated his loss. All depends on where you live.
posted by wilko at 11:28 PM on June 15, 2011
posted by wilko at 11:28 PM on June 15, 2011
After too many colorful stories, I'm certainly no landlord apologist, but eh, once you turned in your keys, I think that's a de facto "I don't expect access to this space anymore." Which, sorry to say, makes it no longer your business.
posted by desuetude at 11:31 PM on June 15, 2011 [5 favorites]
posted by desuetude at 11:31 PM on June 15, 2011 [5 favorites]
Many leases included a clause that states once the keys are returned, the apartment is giving up. Many leases also include a clause that say any and all original and copies of keys are to be returned when the tenant vacates the premises.
Read your lease closely, because you may actually have bee the one to have violated it, not the landlord.
It is not uncommon for people on leases to try to move out early and negotiate lower rent amounts, and luck in getting a landlord to agree to this varies. But it's also unreasonable to expect that once you move out (and return the keys) the landlord won't rent it until your lease is up. By returning the keys, you stated you were free and clear of the apartment. It's not your apartment. And holy shit, should you never have gone in like that! If I were the current tenant, I'd be contacting the landlord with, "What the hell just happened and why does a previous tenant still have keys? Please change the locks, and I don't want this to happen again or I will contact the police!"
To give you some perspective, we rented our new apartment in the month of August. We moved out of our old apartment on August 13th. We returned the keys a few days later when we were done cleaning up the old apartment. We paid rent to both places for the month of August. If we had moved out of the old place any earlier or moved into the new place any later within that month that was on both of our leases, we would have still paid rent on both places. It's fairly common for this to happen, too.
You are the one who is way out of line by going into someone else's place of residence without permission! Return the duplicate keys to the landlord and forget about the rent on the old place.
posted by zizzle at 3:15 AM on June 16, 2011
Read your lease closely, because you may actually have bee the one to have violated it, not the landlord.
It is not uncommon for people on leases to try to move out early and negotiate lower rent amounts, and luck in getting a landlord to agree to this varies. But it's also unreasonable to expect that once you move out (and return the keys) the landlord won't rent it until your lease is up. By returning the keys, you stated you were free and clear of the apartment. It's not your apartment. And holy shit, should you never have gone in like that! If I were the current tenant, I'd be contacting the landlord with, "What the hell just happened and why does a previous tenant still have keys? Please change the locks, and I don't want this to happen again or I will contact the police!"
To give you some perspective, we rented our new apartment in the month of August. We moved out of our old apartment on August 13th. We returned the keys a few days later when we were done cleaning up the old apartment. We paid rent to both places for the month of August. If we had moved out of the old place any earlier or moved into the new place any later within that month that was on both of our leases, we would have still paid rent on both places. It's fairly common for this to happen, too.
You are the one who is way out of line by going into someone else's place of residence without permission! Return the duplicate keys to the landlord and forget about the rent on the old place.
posted by zizzle at 3:15 AM on June 16, 2011
Obviously I'm going to call the landlord and ask him what's going on and demand a refund for the last month. Should I first wait for a call from the new tenant? What else should I do? I'm willing to put a lot of energy into this.
Just to reiterate, no, this is not obvious. You have no claim for that apartment, and you should not have contacted the new tenant.
LET IT GO!
posted by zizzle at 3:17 AM on June 16, 2011
Just to reiterate, no, this is not obvious. You have no claim for that apartment, and you should not have contacted the new tenant.
LET IT GO!
posted by zizzle at 3:17 AM on June 16, 2011
You can't charge double rent on an apartment. That is all.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 3:46 AM on June 16, 2011
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 3:46 AM on June 16, 2011
The owner doesn't have to change the locks between Tenants. What is that all about? I've never seen that done. That would cost loads everytime someone moves out / in.
posted by mary8nne at 4:55 AM on June 16, 2011
posted by mary8nne at 4:55 AM on June 16, 2011
You can't charge double rent on an apartment. That is all.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 6:46 AM on June 16 [+] [!]
This just isn't true once the old tenant has moved out and returned the keys, which the OP did.
The landlord can't double charge the same tenant for the same apartment, but he or she sure can rent it out whenever they please once the old tenant returns the keys. If the OP had wanted to keep the apartment, the OP should have kept the keys until the end of the lease.
Returning keys indicated a termination of the lease in most places.
posted by zizzle at 5:05 AM on June 16, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 6:46 AM on June 16 [+] [!]
This just isn't true once the old tenant has moved out and returned the keys, which the OP did.
The landlord can't double charge the same tenant for the same apartment, but he or she sure can rent it out whenever they please once the old tenant returns the keys. If the OP had wanted to keep the apartment, the OP should have kept the keys until the end of the lease.
Returning keys indicated a termination of the lease in most places.
posted by zizzle at 5:05 AM on June 16, 2011 [3 favorites]
it sounds to me like you had a very verbal agreement lease, and nothing was very solid on paper, otherwise you would have had a walkthrough and signed a paper that stated the date you were vacating, etc... If you paid for the last month then the apartment is yours for that month, if the landlord rented it out then I would contact the city to see what your options are. Call up 311 (or the equivalent in your area) and ask for someone in their tenant/landlord relation department, they will give you all the information you need. And for your own good don't discuss the fact that you entered that apartment or opened that mail.
posted by zombieApoc at 6:47 AM on June 16, 2011
posted by zombieApoc at 6:47 AM on June 16, 2011
Generally if a landlord mitigates, the tenant is entitled to a refund. You can likely find a reference to this rule in some sort of "know your rights" web site in your jurisdiction. I would write a letter stating that you are aware that the unit was re-rented and you would like a refund, citing to the rule. And do NOT disclose that you entered the premises, and do not do that again.
posted by ClaudiaCenter at 9:30 AM on June 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by ClaudiaCenter at 9:30 AM on June 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
From the landlord's perspective, if a new tenant had deposit in hand and wanted to move in in June, why on Earth would you say "sorry, it has to sit empty until July" when the old tenant has already given you notice and given up their keys? Did you ever sign any official paperwork about ending your lease early or giving your key back?
It may be illegal where you are, but if you demand a refund, how would you prove you know someone else is living there without admitting you were in the premises? The fact that you left proof of that with the current tenant might have shot yourself in the foot.
posted by nakedmolerats at 1:43 PM on June 16, 2011
It may be illegal where you are, but if you demand a refund, how would you prove you know someone else is living there without admitting you were in the premises? The fact that you left proof of that with the current tenant might have shot yourself in the foot.
posted by nakedmolerats at 1:43 PM on June 16, 2011
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posted by msbutah at 8:35 PM on June 15, 2011