Help a n00b
May 30, 2011 8:03 AM Subscribe
Is it customary to haggle for art from a gallery? Anything else I should know?
I've not bought anything original before, don't know the etiquette. The painting I like is is $900 (24x30 acrylic on canvas if it matters), which does not seem unreasonable. I can definitely see buying more of this artist work, probably through the same gallery, so please help me not offend anyone. For stuff in this price range is there an expected haggle? I can't imagine the artist is living high on the hog selling at list anyways...
I've not bought anything original before, don't know the etiquette. The painting I like is is $900 (24x30 acrylic on canvas if it matters), which does not seem unreasonable. I can definitely see buying more of this artist work, probably through the same gallery, so please help me not offend anyone. For stuff in this price range is there an expected haggle? I can't imagine the artist is living high on the hog selling at list anyways...
Haggle like crazy:
Just because an art work is rare and authentic, it will not go up in value if you over-pay for it. Art galleries generally have a 100% mark-up. If they pay $1,000.00 for a painting, they mark it $2,000.00. The trick to buy intelligently is to "haggle" like crazy. Initially, never offer the gallery more than 70% of the sticker price and compromise and pay at 75% of the original amount.posted by Foci for Analysis at 8:31 AM on May 30, 2011
is there an expected haggle?
Possible, but not expected and not necessarily fruitful for you. Last time someone tried to haggle with a gallery for one of my pieces, the gallery called me and asked if I wanted to drop the price (rather dramatically) because the customer really, really liked it but couldn't afford the asking price. I simply said "no."
posted by jon1270 at 8:33 AM on May 30, 2011
Possible, but not expected and not necessarily fruitful for you. Last time someone tried to haggle with a gallery for one of my pieces, the gallery called me and asked if I wanted to drop the price (rather dramatically) because the customer really, really liked it but couldn't afford the asking price. I simply said "no."
posted by jon1270 at 8:33 AM on May 30, 2011
There's a whole section on art haggling in the excellent book The Intrepid Art Collector by Lisa Hunter.
posted by musofire at 8:47 AM on May 30, 2011
posted by musofire at 8:47 AM on May 30, 2011
Response by poster: thanks everyone. Is there downside to just paying full price? I would prefer to not haggle.
posted by H. Roark at 8:51 AM on May 30, 2011
posted by H. Roark at 8:51 AM on May 30, 2011
Is there downside to just paying full price?
It depends on what you're buying it for. If you love the piece and think it's worth $X amount to own it for yourself, there's no downside.
If you're buying art as an investment, then you don't want to overpay, because then it's harder to recoup your initial investment.
posted by xingcat at 8:55 AM on May 30, 2011
It depends on what you're buying it for. If you love the piece and think it's worth $X amount to own it for yourself, there's no downside.
If you're buying art as an investment, then you don't want to overpay, because then it's harder to recoup your initial investment.
posted by xingcat at 8:55 AM on May 30, 2011
You are unlikely to recoup your initial investment anyway because it is unlikely that you have the the skills, experience or frankly taste to make art collecting profitable. A piece at 1K is not rare nor is there an authentication issue. You should buy it because you love it and want to own it and live with it, at the asking price. An art gallery is not an auction.
If you happen to have an extraordinary eye and the market agrees with you, the future value of a $1,000 piece will be such that buying it for $1,000 or $900 will make absolutely no difference. Art is not a hedge fund; when we talk seriously about appreciation, we are not talking about a 10% return on investment.
posted by DarlingBri at 9:04 AM on May 30, 2011 [3 favorites]
If you happen to have an extraordinary eye and the market agrees with you, the future value of a $1,000 piece will be such that buying it for $1,000 or $900 will make absolutely no difference. Art is not a hedge fund; when we talk seriously about appreciation, we are not talking about a 10% return on investment.
posted by DarlingBri at 9:04 AM on May 30, 2011 [3 favorites]
I always haggle at art shows, but then you are dealing with the artist usually. I've never tried at a gallery. But I do follow the policy that it never hurts to ask politely. The worst they can do is say no.
posted by gilsonal at 9:22 AM on May 30, 2011
posted by gilsonal at 9:22 AM on May 30, 2011
It's very common to ask for 10% at a commercial gallery. Most experienced collectors ask for 20%, but they often won't get it unless there's a good reason. (The dealer wants it in their collection.) Museums often get like 40% discounts. But that's because that inflates the future value of the work, reasonably.
It's not haggling per se, by price, though sometimes it's a good idea to figure out what 15% off is and then approach with a dollar offer. But it's more common for people to say "I really like it, would you give me 10%?"
The dealer will give you a discount if they think they are building a new collector, but it's also not fair of you to impersonate an ongoing collector for a short term gain of $90.
But I do encourage you to seek discounts. It is customary and ordinary.
(I am a former art dealer but I am not your art dealer.)
posted by RJ Reynolds at 9:34 AM on May 30, 2011
It's not haggling per se, by price, though sometimes it's a good idea to figure out what 15% off is and then approach with a dollar offer. But it's more common for people to say "I really like it, would you give me 10%?"
The dealer will give you a discount if they think they are building a new collector, but it's also not fair of you to impersonate an ongoing collector for a short term gain of $90.
But I do encourage you to seek discounts. It is customary and ordinary.
(I am a former art dealer but I am not your art dealer.)
posted by RJ Reynolds at 9:34 AM on May 30, 2011
the downside is that the artist is paid less , and has to do other jobs to pay his basic bills . Those other jobs are most likely low paying and would take lots of time to make ends meet . It will leave very little time for painting .... this work that you see yourself buying in the future .
posted by Oli D. at 10:17 AM on May 30, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by Oli D. at 10:17 AM on May 30, 2011 [2 favorites]
It's like anything else: you can offer, and they can accept, counteroffer, or reject. No seller wants to give any buyer a discount, but it's a transaction like any other. How flexible they will be depends on the gallery and on supply and demand. If the artist wants your business badly enough and thinks you'll walk away they will accommodate, and if they don't they won't. It's not a matter of "etiquette" and it's not your obligation to worry about how the artist makes a living (unless you want to, in which case you can pay however much you want). It's business.
posted by shivohum at 10:26 AM on May 30, 2011
posted by shivohum at 10:26 AM on May 30, 2011
A piece at that size and price in a gallery is almost certainly from an "emerging" artist (not making a living at being an artist), or someone turning out a lot of really similar, simple stuff almost assembly-style in an attempt to follow a popular market trend (maybe making a living). I think asking for a discount would be less appropriate from an emerging artist than from a midcareer artist -- you want to encourage them to produce better work, and to become established and profitable.
So ask your gallery about the artist and make a decision based on whether saving yourself a hundred bucks is going to affect the artist significantly.
posted by seanmpuckett at 10:42 AM on May 30, 2011
So ask your gallery about the artist and make a decision based on whether saving yourself a hundred bucks is going to affect the artist significantly.
posted by seanmpuckett at 10:42 AM on May 30, 2011
Keep in mind that the price that the gallery is charging does not, in any way, indicate how much the artist will receive if the piece is sold: some galleries give the artist a percentage of whatever the piece sells for; other galleries give the artist a predetermined fixed amount when the piece sells (the galleries can therefore price the piece at whatever they want).
My father owns an art gallery--he generally works with the artist to negotiate what the piece will be priced at, and then will give the artist a percentage of the final selling price. I would say that the best chance you have of getting a discount is if you offer to pay in cash.
posted by lobbyist at 11:08 AM on May 30, 2011
My father owns an art gallery--he generally works with the artist to negotiate what the piece will be priced at, and then will give the artist a percentage of the final selling price. I would say that the best chance you have of getting a discount is if you offer to pay in cash.
posted by lobbyist at 11:08 AM on May 30, 2011
You really like this artist and would like to buy multiple pieces, but the price seems high? If you can find an email or phone number, call the artist. Arrange to make a studio visit, where you can see more of their work, and buy something directly. The artist will get the full amount, and you'll have a better understanding of the work than you could ever get from visiting a gallery.
posted by Scram at 11:47 AM on May 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Scram at 11:47 AM on May 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
I have always haggled for art that I've bought, be it from a local yokel at some silly street fair or a full blown gallery selling (minor) works from major artists. Amounts vary depending on the situation, but, yes, negotiate.
posted by jeffamaphone at 12:29 PM on May 30, 2011
posted by jeffamaphone at 12:29 PM on May 30, 2011
My parents owned an art gallery for about 15 years, and my dad's been a working artist for 40+ years. They have always been willing to negotiate prices, whether with customers in the gallery or clients buying directly from my dad, within a reasonable range (I want to say 10-15% was the usual range for a single piece, depending on the price; obviously, a $500 etching is likely to have less wiggle room than a $15,000 painting). They would also offer a discount for cash.
posted by scody at 12:47 PM on May 30, 2011
posted by scody at 12:47 PM on May 30, 2011
Art is about negotiation.
Most galleries do not buy works of art. The are for the most part - consigned to the gallery by the artists or owners of the art. The percentage that the artist (or consignee) receives does vary. It can be as low as 50 percent. Well known artists are able to negotiate a better rate from the galleries ... or as a consigner of a piece of art - if your artwork is by a well known artist, you can haggle over consignment rates.
You're absolutely crazy not to try and haggle for a better price. It's expected from seasoned collectors. Noobs pay full boat in a gallery. If you can't come to terms with the gallery, feel free to leave an offer. Give them your contact information and the best price you can pay. The worst thing they can say is no - or you can get the piece for a price that makes you smile.
And for gods sake, have fun with it. It shouldn't be a tense awkward situation. Buying art is a game. It's fun, it's exciting. Enjoy the process. It's about chasing down something that you want be a part of your life. The goal is to surround yourself with things that make you happy.
posted by Bighappyfunhouse at 2:01 PM on May 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
Most galleries do not buy works of art. The are for the most part - consigned to the gallery by the artists or owners of the art. The percentage that the artist (or consignee) receives does vary. It can be as low as 50 percent. Well known artists are able to negotiate a better rate from the galleries ... or as a consigner of a piece of art - if your artwork is by a well known artist, you can haggle over consignment rates.
You're absolutely crazy not to try and haggle for a better price. It's expected from seasoned collectors. Noobs pay full boat in a gallery. If you can't come to terms with the gallery, feel free to leave an offer. Give them your contact information and the best price you can pay. The worst thing they can say is no - or you can get the piece for a price that makes you smile.
And for gods sake, have fun with it. It shouldn't be a tense awkward situation. Buying art is a game. It's fun, it's exciting. Enjoy the process. It's about chasing down something that you want be a part of your life. The goal is to surround yourself with things that make you happy.
posted by Bighappyfunhouse at 2:01 PM on May 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
What Oli D. says. When you buy a $900 dollar painting, one way to think about your role is as a consumer: You are giving someone $900, and getting something you want. In that mindset, you might want to minimize the price you pay. Another way to think about your role is more as a patron: You are still getting a painting, but you are also explicitly choosing to pay some money toward the continued ability of the artist to keep producing work.
I think things might be better if more people who bought art (of all sorts - not just visual art) thought of themselves in this way as patrons. Making a living as an artist is very hard. You might worry you're not being as shrewd as you should be if you pay the sticker price, but, really, there's no shame in choosing to being generous in supporting an artist you like.
(Lest you worry about the gallerist's cut:Making a living running a small gallery is no easy trick either...)
posted by ManInSuit at 2:07 PM on May 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
I think things might be better if more people who bought art (of all sorts - not just visual art) thought of themselves in this way as patrons. Making a living as an artist is very hard. You might worry you're not being as shrewd as you should be if you pay the sticker price, but, really, there's no shame in choosing to being generous in supporting an artist you like.
(Lest you worry about the gallerist's cut:Making a living running a small gallery is no easy trick either...)
posted by ManInSuit at 2:07 PM on May 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
Buying may not be a science, but setting the price sure as hell isn't.
Assume the artist gets 50%. How much work would you do for $450. Subtract out the canvas, paint, supplies and say the item has $50 of material in it.
It also has rent, lighting, and other overhead, which for the sake of argument, is negligible.
Maybe a painting takes 10 hours to paint. In that 10 hours you are paying someone $40 per hour for years of study, practice, and unsold art. It's a deal at at that price. I wouldn't cut your yard for $40 or loan you a single $40 toothed chisel from my kit for an hour.
If you don't think that the artist is worth $40 an hour, what in the world are you buying the painting for?
As to the gallery cut, they are part of the equation. Where would you have found this wonderful artist you like well enough to haggle over pennies if they hadn't set this gallery up? What is their rent, insurance, payroll, utility bill, labor worth? The other $40/hr? I hope so.
Haggle at the 20K level. If you like an artist, encourage him/her by buying the art. Support the effort.
posted by FauxScot at 4:54 PM on May 30, 2011
Assume the artist gets 50%. How much work would you do for $450. Subtract out the canvas, paint, supplies and say the item has $50 of material in it.
It also has rent, lighting, and other overhead, which for the sake of argument, is negligible.
Maybe a painting takes 10 hours to paint. In that 10 hours you are paying someone $40 per hour for years of study, practice, and unsold art. It's a deal at at that price. I wouldn't cut your yard for $40 or loan you a single $40 toothed chisel from my kit for an hour.
If you don't think that the artist is worth $40 an hour, what in the world are you buying the painting for?
As to the gallery cut, they are part of the equation. Where would you have found this wonderful artist you like well enough to haggle over pennies if they hadn't set this gallery up? What is their rent, insurance, payroll, utility bill, labor worth? The other $40/hr? I hope so.
Haggle at the 20K level. If you like an artist, encourage him/her by buying the art. Support the effort.
posted by FauxScot at 4:54 PM on May 30, 2011
I'll be a dissenting voice. I am aware that many customers at galleries and art shows haggle and that this is expected behavior. However, it would significantly reduce the enjoyment I would get from the process. I will never sell the pieces that I have bought. I couldn't care less if they go up or down in value. I buy pieces that appeal to me on an emotional or aesthetic level. I suppose that there is a factor that price plays in the equation, in that I am not in the market for million dollar pieces no matter how much I pay for them and I am much more likely to purchase an inexpensive piece on a whim, but it hasn't happened to me that a 20% discount would change my mind.
I enjoy the process of talking to the artist when they are at the gallery or when I'm buying directly from them. Its interesting to hear what they think about the work and how their creative process works and they always seem interested to hear what attracted me to their work. If I concluded the conversation with a hardball negotiation for the best price, it would leave me with an unpleasant feeling. I'm aware that this makes me a sucker in some people's eyes, but I leave the transaction very happy with the result and if they make a few extra bucks, I'm perfectly OK with that.
posted by Lame_username at 10:45 AM on May 31, 2011 [1 favorite]
I enjoy the process of talking to the artist when they are at the gallery or when I'm buying directly from them. Its interesting to hear what they think about the work and how their creative process works and they always seem interested to hear what attracted me to their work. If I concluded the conversation with a hardball negotiation for the best price, it would leave me with an unpleasant feeling. I'm aware that this makes me a sucker in some people's eyes, but I leave the transaction very happy with the result and if they make a few extra bucks, I'm perfectly OK with that.
posted by Lame_username at 10:45 AM on May 31, 2011 [1 favorite]
You're absolutely crazy not to try and haggle for a better price. It's expected from seasoned collectors. Noobs pay full boat in a gallery.
I would disagree with this to an extent. My parents were certainly willing to negotiate within reason or offer deals on shipping, repeat clients, etc. at their gallery, but it's not like they were ever dismissive of collectors (brand-new or seasoned alike) who were willing to pay the listed price without haggling -- which, in fact, was probably the majority of the time. The listed price they (and the artist) agreed to for a particular piece up on the wall wasn't some scam/OMG STUPID NOOBS fake-out price. As others have noted, for the vast majority of artists and gallerists, making a living from selling art is no small feat, and an enormous number of factors can go into pricing art.
posted by scody at 10:58 AM on May 31, 2011
I would disagree with this to an extent. My parents were certainly willing to negotiate within reason or offer deals on shipping, repeat clients, etc. at their gallery, but it's not like they were ever dismissive of collectors (brand-new or seasoned alike) who were willing to pay the listed price without haggling -- which, in fact, was probably the majority of the time. The listed price they (and the artist) agreed to for a particular piece up on the wall wasn't some scam/OMG STUPID NOOBS fake-out price. As others have noted, for the vast majority of artists and gallerists, making a living from selling art is no small feat, and an enormous number of factors can go into pricing art.
posted by scody at 10:58 AM on May 31, 2011
This thread is closed to new comments.
Be tactful yet forthcoming if you are interested in a piece at below asking. Big discounts will probably hurt the artist most; I advise being reasonable with the offer.
posted by safetyfork at 8:28 AM on May 30, 2011