WWII veterans' lives after the war
May 28, 2011 4:56 PM Subscribe
[WWII/Band of Brothers filter] At the end of BoB, we're told about each of the characters' lives after the war. I can't help but feel a bit... disappointed? to hear that, say, this soldier returned and worked as a cab driver, or as a mill worker. It feels anticlimactic and un-glamorous. Yes, I realize that may be a by-product of the hero- or myth-building that (intentionally or not) goes into WWII movies. Are there any books or articles that explore this area?
I feel like I need to underline the fact that I mean no disrespect at all. It's a complicated issue, and probably not universal. Maybe this is a straight-up personal thing. But if it's not, I'd like to explore it some more, preferably on the backs of folks who are more knowledgeable in the area than myself (a very low bar to clear).
Thanks as always, hive mind!
I feel like I need to underline the fact that I mean no disrespect at all. It's a complicated issue, and probably not universal. Maybe this is a straight-up personal thing. But if it's not, I'd like to explore it some more, preferably on the backs of folks who are more knowledgeable in the area than myself (a very low bar to clear).
Thanks as always, hive mind!
Explore what area exactly? The feeling of disappointment at learning about the rest of their lives? Or the lives themselves?
posted by drjimmy11 at 5:21 PM on May 28, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by drjimmy11 at 5:21 PM on May 28, 2011 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Check out "The Best Years of Our Lives"
posted by parmanparman at 5:26 PM on May 28, 2011 [5 favorites]
posted by parmanparman at 5:26 PM on May 28, 2011 [5 favorites]
You might look into Paul Fussell's work. He hits it from the side of upper middle class kid who after the war went to Harvard and got an academic career, and he was a combat infantryman and found himself among the working class men who took the brunt of it. He says more about the war itself than the aftermath, but he might be of some use
Might be fruitful to glance over the Civil War literature as well. The experience was much the same.
posted by IndigoJones at 5:35 PM on May 28, 2011 [1 favorite]
Might be fruitful to glance over the Civil War literature as well. The experience was much the same.
posted by IndigoJones at 5:35 PM on May 28, 2011 [1 favorite]
Best answer: War is a Force that Gives Us Meaning.
posted by Corvid at 5:55 PM on May 28, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Corvid at 5:55 PM on May 28, 2011 [1 favorite]
Many returning vets were quite happy to return to their interrupted lives; from my own experience with them, very few wanted to flaunt their service.
(All four of my mother's brothers served; one was lost returning from a bombing run over Germany in 1943, one returned to the same factory he'd worked at before the war, one became a long-distance truck driver; the fourth one went to college on the GI Bill, got in on the ground floor of computers in the 1950s, and ended up a systems analyst. All five of Mom's brothers-in-law also served; four of them returned to similar lives from before the war, and one went to college and ended up an architect. So of my personal sample of eleven servicemen, the count was one dead, six back to their blue-collar roots, and two went on to college. "Ordinary" lives seem to be the norm, the Harvard grads the exception.)
posted by easily confused at 5:57 PM on May 28, 2011
(All four of my mother's brothers served; one was lost returning from a bombing run over Germany in 1943, one returned to the same factory he'd worked at before the war, one became a long-distance truck driver; the fourth one went to college on the GI Bill, got in on the ground floor of computers in the 1950s, and ended up a systems analyst. All five of Mom's brothers-in-law also served; four of them returned to similar lives from before the war, and one went to college and ended up an architect. So of my personal sample of eleven servicemen, the count was one dead, six back to their blue-collar roots, and two went on to college. "Ordinary" lives seem to be the norm, the Harvard grads the exception.)
posted by easily confused at 5:57 PM on May 28, 2011
I can't help but feel a bit... disappointed? to hear that, say, this soldier returned and worked as a cab driver, or as a mill worker.
I guess I don't understand -- honest work is honorable, what is the problem with driving a cab or working in a mill? The enlisted men of that era were from working class backgrounds and when they returned home they went to work. What jobs did you think they might have had upon returning home?
posted by mlis at 6:11 PM on May 28, 2011 [3 favorites]
I guess I don't understand -- honest work is honorable, what is the problem with driving a cab or working in a mill? The enlisted men of that era were from working class backgrounds and when they returned home they went to work. What jobs did you think they might have had upon returning home?
posted by mlis at 6:11 PM on May 28, 2011 [3 favorites]
Stephen E Ambrose (of BoB fame) wrote another book called "Citizen Soldier", tracing the route of ordinary American men into service, and focusing squarely on the ordinary GI's experience on the front line. He does do the hero myth quite enthusiastically. The heroism of it, though, is that Americans went to war and became excellent soldiers, despite having had no interest in it up to that point (which the Germans certainly did have - you could almost say they raised a whole generation in the expectation of another war).
posted by marmaduke_yaverland at 6:30 PM on May 28, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by marmaduke_yaverland at 6:30 PM on May 28, 2011 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: "...from my own experience... very few wanted to flaunt their service."
This was the sense I got from my grandfather - for example, my grandmother had to make him accept medals that he had been awarded. He never spoke about it and bringing up the topic was generally discouraged.
And I certainly don't mean to devalue honest, hard work. Far from it.
I'm probably not articulating myself very well. I guess I think about the intense camaraderie and the emotional and physical extremes that dudes went through -- and then having to reintegrate into a normal, day-to-day life (the cereal-box scene from "Hurt Locker" comes to mind) ... I guess I just want more insight on that, especially relative to WWII and how it's been portrayed over the years. I have to admit, even the most gruesome films still seem to have a hint of romance and appeal. Personally, it's a heart-vs-head thing - I know the war and the things that went on were reprehensible, but the "brothers in arms" thing just really, really gets to me (as I think it does for many). Hmm. I may be complicating things now.
TL;DR: I think I'm simply looking for good accounts of soldiers' experiences after the war (and during, but mostly after).
I'll check out the titles and authors that have been mentioned so far - thanks, all!
posted by TangoCharlie at 6:45 PM on May 28, 2011
This was the sense I got from my grandfather - for example, my grandmother had to make him accept medals that he had been awarded. He never spoke about it and bringing up the topic was generally discouraged.
And I certainly don't mean to devalue honest, hard work. Far from it.
I'm probably not articulating myself very well. I guess I think about the intense camaraderie and the emotional and physical extremes that dudes went through -- and then having to reintegrate into a normal, day-to-day life (the cereal-box scene from "Hurt Locker" comes to mind) ... I guess I just want more insight on that, especially relative to WWII and how it's been portrayed over the years. I have to admit, even the most gruesome films still seem to have a hint of romance and appeal. Personally, it's a heart-vs-head thing - I know the war and the things that went on were reprehensible, but the "brothers in arms" thing just really, really gets to me (as I think it does for many). Hmm. I may be complicating things now.
TL;DR: I think I'm simply looking for good accounts of soldiers' experiences after the war (and during, but mostly after).
I'll check out the titles and authors that have been mentioned so far - thanks, all!
posted by TangoCharlie at 6:45 PM on May 28, 2011
Response by poster: Actually, if anyone's got recommendations for good books about soldiers' personal experiences in WWII, I'd love to hear 'em. (As opposed to books about strategy, politics, technology, etc etc)
posted by TangoCharlie at 6:57 PM on May 28, 2011
posted by TangoCharlie at 6:57 PM on May 28, 2011
If you're interested in fiction, check out The Man in the Gray Flannel Suit.
posted by Xalf at 7:26 PM on May 28, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Xalf at 7:26 PM on May 28, 2011 [1 favorite]
There were soldiers - my uncle was one of them, a neighbor of ours was another - for whom military service was a significant step up in their lives. America was recovering from a Depression that had 25% unemployment, the concept of a minimum wage was brand-new; hunger and homelessness were widespread.
That most of WWII's 16 million servicemen stepped from military life into real jobs where they could support a family was a huge societal accomplishment.
posted by AsYouKnow Bob at 7:31 PM on May 28, 2011 [3 favorites]
That most of WWII's 16 million servicemen stepped from military life into real jobs where they could support a family was a huge societal accomplishment.
posted by AsYouKnow Bob at 7:31 PM on May 28, 2011 [3 favorites]
Band of Brothers focuses deliberately on non-com infantry. These guys went into the service from mostly low socio-economic bsckgrounds, and returned to those backgrounds, largely without any new technical skills (e.g. They were infantry troops -- they didn't, say, learn to fly planes in the service).
It's anti-climactic because ... Well, because it's just reality. That's what people do.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 7:34 PM on May 28, 2011 [1 favorite]
It's anti-climactic because ... Well, because it's just reality. That's what people do.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 7:34 PM on May 28, 2011 [1 favorite]
I think The Greatest Generation by Tom Brokaw gets into the after-the-war lives part a bit.
posted by COD at 7:36 PM on May 28, 2011
posted by COD at 7:36 PM on May 28, 2011
"Flags of Our Fathers" (the book, not the movie) by James Bradley goes into a lot of detail about the fighting on Iwo Jima, and specifically the lives of the men pictured in the famous flag-raising photo, one of whom was Bradley's father. His other book "Flyboys" is about more of the fight in the Pacific. "In Harm's Way" by Doug Stanton is about the sinking of the U.S.S. Indianapolis, absolutely gripping, and depressing as all hell.
And, I second the recommendation for The Best Years of Our Lives.
posted by oh yeah! at 7:56 PM on May 28, 2011
And, I second the recommendation for The Best Years of Our Lives.
posted by oh yeah! at 7:56 PM on May 28, 2011
Now The Hell Will Start By Brendan Koerner.
posted by vitabellosi at 8:06 PM on May 28, 2011
posted by vitabellosi at 8:06 PM on May 28, 2011
Best answer: Actually, if anyone's got recommendations for good books about soldiers' personal experiences in WWII...
Parachute Infantry by David Webster. This guy went through a lot of the campaigns in BoB. The thing I like about this is he spends lots of time trying not to get shot at, and while he's not a malingerer or deserter, he's happy to have something else to do while the shooting is going on. I believe he spends lots of time looking for food too.
Seven Roads to Hell: A Screaming Eagle at Bastogne, The Road to Arnhem: A Screaming Eagle in Holland, Beyond the Rhine: A Screaming Eagle in Germany, and Currahee!: A Screaming Eagle at Normandy. All by Donald Burgett. If you just read one , I recommend Currahee!
With the Old Breed: At Peleliu and Okinawa by E.B. Sledge. Classic, classic narrative of a Marine's experiences in the Pacific.
Pegasus Bridge: June 6, 1944 by Stephen Ambrose. One of his earlier books before he started phoning it in. It's about a small unit of British paratroopers.
Frontsoldaten: The German Soldier in World War II by Stephen Fritz. I don't know anything about the author, but he's like Stephen Ambrose for the German Army. He uses a lot of oral histories, personal narratives, letters, and diaries to examine the experience of the common German infantryman.
posted by marxchivist at 9:48 PM on May 28, 2011 [1 favorite]
Parachute Infantry by David Webster. This guy went through a lot of the campaigns in BoB. The thing I like about this is he spends lots of time trying not to get shot at, and while he's not a malingerer or deserter, he's happy to have something else to do while the shooting is going on. I believe he spends lots of time looking for food too.
Seven Roads to Hell: A Screaming Eagle at Bastogne, The Road to Arnhem: A Screaming Eagle in Holland, Beyond the Rhine: A Screaming Eagle in Germany, and Currahee!: A Screaming Eagle at Normandy. All by Donald Burgett. If you just read one , I recommend Currahee!
With the Old Breed: At Peleliu and Okinawa by E.B. Sledge. Classic, classic narrative of a Marine's experiences in the Pacific.
Pegasus Bridge: June 6, 1944 by Stephen Ambrose. One of his earlier books before he started phoning it in. It's about a small unit of British paratroopers.
Frontsoldaten: The German Soldier in World War II by Stephen Fritz. I don't know anything about the author, but he's like Stephen Ambrose for the German Army. He uses a lot of oral histories, personal narratives, letters, and diaries to examine the experience of the common German infantryman.
posted by marxchivist at 9:48 PM on May 28, 2011 [1 favorite]
You do realize that many people who go to war do it for money, right?
Not in WWII.
It's important to remember that for a certain age cohort of men almost everyone served in the armed forces in some capacity. When they came back, they often went back to doing what they did before.
You're right that this is part of the hero complex that the media builds up. Also, films are typically not about logistical support troops like cooks, truck drivers, clerks, and mechanics even though those actually comprise a very large part of a 20th century army. Even front-line soldiers didn't spend the whole war fighting continuously.
posted by atrazine at 12:31 AM on May 29, 2011
Not in WWII.
It's important to remember that for a certain age cohort of men almost everyone served in the armed forces in some capacity. When they came back, they often went back to doing what they did before.
You're right that this is part of the hero complex that the media builds up. Also, films are typically not about logistical support troops like cooks, truck drivers, clerks, and mechanics even though those actually comprise a very large part of a 20th century army. Even front-line soldiers didn't spend the whole war fighting continuously.
posted by atrazine at 12:31 AM on May 29, 2011
You do realize that many people who go to war do it for money, right?
Not in WWII.
Actually one of the actual veterans says fairly on in BoB that he volunteered for the Airborne regiment as they got an extra $50 a month, which was basically double pay, and it seems to imply that this was not an abnormal motivation for selecting this particular duty. Later motivations for volunterring given in the drama itself suggest another motivation for volunteering for the particular duty was to ensure that you were fighting among the elite as this meant fellow sodiers were more reliable.
posted by biffa at 6:25 AM on May 29, 2011 [1 favorite]
Not in WWII.
Actually one of the actual veterans says fairly on in BoB that he volunteered for the Airborne regiment as they got an extra $50 a month, which was basically double pay, and it seems to imply that this was not an abnormal motivation for selecting this particular duty. Later motivations for volunterring given in the drama itself suggest another motivation for volunteering for the particular duty was to ensure that you were fighting among the elite as this meant fellow sodiers were more reliable.
posted by biffa at 6:25 AM on May 29, 2011 [1 favorite]
There's a literary tradition in the old Roman texts like Virgil where the solder's dream is to just be done with war, to take a wife and be a simple farmer.
Rhomboid, you may be recalling quotes attributed to the Roman General Cincinnatus, for whom Cincinnati is indirectly named.
posted by IAmBroom at 7:19 AM on May 29, 2011 [1 favorite]
Rhomboid, you may be recalling quotes attributed to the Roman General Cincinnatus, for whom Cincinnati is indirectly named.
posted by IAmBroom at 7:19 AM on May 29, 2011 [1 favorite]
You do realize that many people who go to war do it for money, right?
Not in WWII.
Citation, atrazine?
posted by IAmBroom at 7:19 AM on May 29, 2011
Not in WWII.
Citation, atrazine?
posted by IAmBroom at 7:19 AM on May 29, 2011
Best answer: This question is to war as Fermat's last conjecture is to math, though Fermat's last conjecture eventually did get proven in a mere 300 years or so. What I always liked about it was that it was comprehensible, even by a sophomore, and could be stated in less than 15 seconds, verbally.
I'm not sure you'll get exactly what you are looking for from anyone here. Reading lists are exercises in both bias and exposure. I can tell you what works/worked/didn't work for me, but that would be for me. I do highly recommend 'War is a force that gives us meaning', too. It seems to be an over-arching intro to the topic, from which you can enhance your comprehension of the many thousands of experience/analysis books out there. War, he suggests, is our natural state, and not peace, to which we give lip service. It explains our fascination with it, partially. It's at the core of us.
Fiction is also useful, since it amplifies reality in key places, and often overlays pastoral reflection on things that might actually have been done in mindless reaction modes. Fiction by former warriors is particularly valuable, I think. You'll have no trouble finding a lot. Pick a war in the last 200 years.
Your question can take thousands of paths to a satisfying answer, but it may just move you closer to the last thirsty day of your life, as thirst will always be with you. In other words, you may never get an answer that is good enough. I sure haven't, and as I haven't been either a soldier or a warrior, I'll never get the answer in vicarious form that I might obtain from a single day in battle. Personally, I suggest you don't want to know if the cost is going to battle. Don't join up to find out.
Society is civilization. War is the suspension of civilization, at least on the pointed edge of real battle. All the rules change. When civilization resumes, society values its suspension a lot less. One's ability, as a former warrior, to suspend civilization has very, very few peacetime slots it can fill. Is it surprising that once the demand is gone, those skills find no home?
Bravery, life and death selflessness, reliance and commitment at the levels present in war, under the unpredictable and random delight of Fate happen in the whispy smokiness of imitation in civil society. Likewise, cruelty, insensitivity, anger, disrespect, maiming, are thankfully not seen as parts of most daily lives. Not to say it doesn't happen, but here, in our world, catastrophe is usually an unplanned, unintentional, infrequent, and unexpected thing. In war, it is intent. Entropy is intended. Maximal dissociation of an enemy's society, infrastructure, bodily safety, social institutions, values, futures, spirit... it is a UPS package from hell, delivered on a schedule, with the precision of a business project.
(I am thinking here of conventional wars, more than the unconventional things we are involved in now, with brave ground troops at one end of the extreme and overweight, unfit video game jocks shooting Predator drone Hellfire missiles from air conditioned comfort in the American southwest. Different life forms, I am sure you'll agree?)
I don't glorify war. I hate it. Heartache is my first response whenever I hear that a new friend is a veteran. Political disagreements are suspended at my end when I hear that an opponent is a combat vet, immediately replaced with respectful listening. I WANT to know what they think and feel about this world I live in. I WANT to know. My lame participation in life's events feel like a kid pushing a plastic lawnmower behind his dad. Those guys and their current equivalent, make it possible. I'll never lose sight of the fact that my mower is plastic, no matter how old I get.
I must admit to a particularly high level of respect for the draftee hero, something that we don't see these days. Wife suggests that we have an economic draft in place now, and she may be right. It might explain the dearth of wealthy combat soldiers and the absence of the kids of the high and mighty in the truck convoys in Iraq.
Good luck getting an answer. I'd give you my reading list, but there's no guarantee that it would even begin to satisfy your quest. In the end, it's all reading, not experience.
posted by FauxScot at 8:33 AM on May 29, 2011
I'm not sure you'll get exactly what you are looking for from anyone here. Reading lists are exercises in both bias and exposure. I can tell you what works/worked/didn't work for me, but that would be for me. I do highly recommend 'War is a force that gives us meaning', too. It seems to be an over-arching intro to the topic, from which you can enhance your comprehension of the many thousands of experience/analysis books out there. War, he suggests, is our natural state, and not peace, to which we give lip service. It explains our fascination with it, partially. It's at the core of us.
Fiction is also useful, since it amplifies reality in key places, and often overlays pastoral reflection on things that might actually have been done in mindless reaction modes. Fiction by former warriors is particularly valuable, I think. You'll have no trouble finding a lot. Pick a war in the last 200 years.
Your question can take thousands of paths to a satisfying answer, but it may just move you closer to the last thirsty day of your life, as thirst will always be with you. In other words, you may never get an answer that is good enough. I sure haven't, and as I haven't been either a soldier or a warrior, I'll never get the answer in vicarious form that I might obtain from a single day in battle. Personally, I suggest you don't want to know if the cost is going to battle. Don't join up to find out.
Society is civilization. War is the suspension of civilization, at least on the pointed edge of real battle. All the rules change. When civilization resumes, society values its suspension a lot less. One's ability, as a former warrior, to suspend civilization has very, very few peacetime slots it can fill. Is it surprising that once the demand is gone, those skills find no home?
Bravery, life and death selflessness, reliance and commitment at the levels present in war, under the unpredictable and random delight of Fate happen in the whispy smokiness of imitation in civil society. Likewise, cruelty, insensitivity, anger, disrespect, maiming, are thankfully not seen as parts of most daily lives. Not to say it doesn't happen, but here, in our world, catastrophe is usually an unplanned, unintentional, infrequent, and unexpected thing. In war, it is intent. Entropy is intended. Maximal dissociation of an enemy's society, infrastructure, bodily safety, social institutions, values, futures, spirit... it is a UPS package from hell, delivered on a schedule, with the precision of a business project.
(I am thinking here of conventional wars, more than the unconventional things we are involved in now, with brave ground troops at one end of the extreme and overweight, unfit video game jocks shooting Predator drone Hellfire missiles from air conditioned comfort in the American southwest. Different life forms, I am sure you'll agree?)
I don't glorify war. I hate it. Heartache is my first response whenever I hear that a new friend is a veteran. Political disagreements are suspended at my end when I hear that an opponent is a combat vet, immediately replaced with respectful listening. I WANT to know what they think and feel about this world I live in. I WANT to know. My lame participation in life's events feel like a kid pushing a plastic lawnmower behind his dad. Those guys and their current equivalent, make it possible. I'll never lose sight of the fact that my mower is plastic, no matter how old I get.
I must admit to a particularly high level of respect for the draftee hero, something that we don't see these days. Wife suggests that we have an economic draft in place now, and she may be right. It might explain the dearth of wealthy combat soldiers and the absence of the kids of the high and mighty in the truck convoys in Iraq.
Good luck getting an answer. I'd give you my reading list, but there's no guarantee that it would even begin to satisfy your quest. In the end, it's all reading, not experience.
posted by FauxScot at 8:33 AM on May 29, 2011
Not in WWII.
Conscription in the United States:
The 1940 STSA instituted national conscription in peacetime, requiring registration of all men between twenty-one and forty-five, with selection for one year's service by a national lottery. The term of service was extended by one year in August 1941. After Pearl Harbor the STSA was further amended (Dec. 19, 1941), extending the term of service to the duration of the war and six months and requiring the registration of all men eighteen to sixty-four years of age. In the massive draft of World War II, 50 million men from eighteen to forty-five were registered, 36 million classified, and 10 million inducted.
Actually one of the actual veterans says fairly on in BoB that he volunteered for the Airborne regiment as they got an extra $50 a month
He volunteered for Airborne after he was drafted.
With the Old Breed: At Peleliu and Okinawa was one of the books that the HBO miniseries The Pacific is based on (the other book is Helmet for My Pillow by Robert Leckie).
posted by kirkaracha at 9:06 AM on May 29, 2011
He volunteered for Airborne after he was drafted.
Did he? Because wikipedia carries biogs for the soldiers who were represented in Band of Brothers and most of them are appear to be enlisted. Of the 5 soldiers who are represented in all 10 episodes 4 were enlisted and the other was drafted only after trying to enlist twice. Of the 4 soldiers represented in 9 episodes at least 3 were enlisted. So you have little basis for assuming you know anything about the motivations of these soldiers. It may not primarily have been money but many US soldiers were volunteers in world war 2 and pay may well have influenced some of their decision making alongside other motivations.
posted by biffa at 9:44 AM on May 29, 2011
Did he? Because wikipedia carries biogs for the soldiers who were represented in Band of Brothers and most of them are appear to be enlisted. Of the 5 soldiers who are represented in all 10 episodes 4 were enlisted and the other was drafted only after trying to enlist twice. Of the 4 soldiers represented in 9 episodes at least 3 were enlisted. So you have little basis for assuming you know anything about the motivations of these soldiers. It may not primarily have been money but many US soldiers were volunteers in world war 2 and pay may well have influenced some of their decision making alongside other motivations.
posted by biffa at 9:44 AM on May 29, 2011
The 101st was an all volunteer unit. The money was in recognition of the extra special danger.
Worth noting that even such a popular war as WWII required a draft, and, as with Vietnam, plenty enlisted on the thinking they could get a better deal if they did so. As to the money as incentive, unemployment was already dropping by 1939 and plummeted after Pearl Harbor. Good money in defense work, and not all of those jobs went to Rosie the Riveter.
Worth noting, getting back to OP, that economic planners were terrified that the depression would start right up after the war was over. One reason for the GI was to prevent a gush of newly unemployed servicemen from hitting the streets looking for jobs that did not exist (cf Best Years of Our Lives). Thus, hustle them off to college for a while instead.
That Depression Jr. did not happen was partially because defense work shifted to consumer work and after almost four years of nothing to buy, the American consumer, flush with cash and GI grants, went to town.
posted by IndigoJones at 12:07 PM on May 29, 2011
Worth noting that even such a popular war as WWII required a draft, and, as with Vietnam, plenty enlisted on the thinking they could get a better deal if they did so. As to the money as incentive, unemployment was already dropping by 1939 and plummeted after Pearl Harbor. Good money in defense work, and not all of those jobs went to Rosie the Riveter.
Worth noting, getting back to OP, that economic planners were terrified that the depression would start right up after the war was over. One reason for the GI was to prevent a gush of newly unemployed servicemen from hitting the streets looking for jobs that did not exist (cf Best Years of Our Lives). Thus, hustle them off to college for a while instead.
That Depression Jr. did not happen was partially because defense work shifted to consumer work and after almost four years of nothing to buy, the American consumer, flush with cash and GI grants, went to town.
posted by IndigoJones at 12:07 PM on May 29, 2011
(better deal as in not immediately pushed into the front line as cannon fodder. Not that this always worked, mind.)
posted by IndigoJones at 12:08 PM on May 29, 2011
posted by IndigoJones at 12:08 PM on May 29, 2011
(better deal as in not immediately pushed into the front line as cannon fodder. Not that this always worked, mind.)
Also, several of them remarked that, if they were going to serve, they wanted to fight, and if they were going to fight, best to try to join an elite force, because then you could trust that the guy standing next to you was also one of the elite.
Whether that was a real motivation or some after-the-fact bravado is something else, and not terribly relevant, anyway. ;-)
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 12:33 PM on May 29, 2011
Also, several of them remarked that, if they were going to serve, they wanted to fight, and if they were going to fight, best to try to join an elite force, because then you could trust that the guy standing next to you was also one of the elite.
Whether that was a real motivation or some after-the-fact bravado is something else, and not terribly relevant, anyway. ;-)
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 12:33 PM on May 29, 2011
If you're looking for understanding of the nature and effects of personal relationships among soldiers, go read this short chapter of Sebastian Haffner's memoir, Defying Hitler. This was written in the context of Germany just prior to WWII, but it's universally relevant, excellent, and deeply chilling.
posted by Corvid at 12:58 PM on May 29, 2011
posted by Corvid at 12:58 PM on May 29, 2011
oh yeah!: ""And, I second the recommendation for The Best Years of Our Lives."
I'll third that one.
posted by InsertNiftyNameHere at 12:30 AM on May 30, 2011
I'll third that one.
posted by InsertNiftyNameHere at 12:30 AM on May 30, 2011
Studs Turkel's "The Good War" is mostly recollections about wartime service, but you'll find occasional bits of postwar biography in it too.
It's a superb book. Wars don't make one great...
posted by Sauce Trough at 1:30 AM on May 30, 2011
It's a superb book. Wars don't make one great...
posted by Sauce Trough at 1:30 AM on May 30, 2011
Actually, if anyone's got recommendations for good books about soldiers' personal experiences in WWII, I'd love to hear 'em.
I found the graphic novel (although it is non-fiction) Alan's War: The Memories of G.I. Alan Cope interesting—one man's stories about things that happened to him as a GI in WWII, put into pictures by an artist-friend he met.
Pictures stay in my mind better than text, so it's one of the more memorable collection of accounts I've looked at (although I really haven't read that many).
posted by blueberry at 8:05 AM on May 30, 2011
I found the graphic novel (although it is non-fiction) Alan's War: The Memories of G.I. Alan Cope interesting—one man's stories about things that happened to him as a GI in WWII, put into pictures by an artist-friend he met.
Pictures stay in my mind better than text, so it's one of the more memorable collection of accounts I've looked at (although I really haven't read that many).
posted by blueberry at 8:05 AM on May 30, 2011
Best answer: Life, by and large, is all about the anti-climactic and the non-glamorous.
The question is why you believe that's a bad thing? Brainwashing by Hollywood movies and the rest of advertising-driven pop culture perhaps?
THAT deserves lots more books written about it than lamenting normal lives.
posted by wkearney99 at 9:46 AM on May 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
The question is why you believe that's a bad thing? Brainwashing by Hollywood movies and the rest of advertising-driven pop culture perhaps?
THAT deserves lots more books written about it than lamenting normal lives.
posted by wkearney99 at 9:46 AM on May 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
There are almost as many first-person books about WWII as there were survivors. I own many, and have read a lot more; are you asking about these books? Or are you instead asking about a wider review of the war memoir as a genre?
My grandpa's WWII experienes were under an order of secrecy; he went to his grave with most of his secrets, and only a lot of FOIA requests have uncovered what he was doing. *shrug* Other vets had other reasons for not talking much about what they did.
Some were simply modest, or figured that if you weren't there then you wouldn't understand. Major Dick Winters said something that seemed to be echoed in many men's stories, a reflection of the idea that they fought for their comrades. At the end of "Band of brothers," he says, "I treasure my remark to my grandson who asked, 'Grandpa, were you a hero in the war?'" Grandpa said, 'No... but I served in a company of heroes.'"
posted by wenestvedt at 11:30 AM on May 31, 2011
My grandpa's WWII experienes were under an order of secrecy; he went to his grave with most of his secrets, and only a lot of FOIA requests have uncovered what he was doing. *shrug* Other vets had other reasons for not talking much about what they did.
Some were simply modest, or figured that if you weren't there then you wouldn't understand. Major Dick Winters said something that seemed to be echoed in many men's stories, a reflection of the idea that they fought for their comrades. At the end of "Band of brothers," he says, "I treasure my remark to my grandson who asked, 'Grandpa, were you a hero in the war?'" Grandpa said, 'No... but I served in a company of heroes.'"
posted by wenestvedt at 11:30 AM on May 31, 2011
Response by poster: Just wanted to thank everyone again for the links and the contributions. Actually, what I really want to do is address some of the points and comments, but I think it's best if I go absorb some of this material first.
wkearney99 - Yeah, I'd like to read about that, too. I don't want to "lament" normal lives, though. I'm happy with my own normal life and am in no hurry to change it. It's the contrast within one person's life of having to go through extremely intense situations and also having to live a normal life that I find interesting. Why WWII and not, say, Titanic survivors or that dude from 127 Hours? Dunno. Maybe I'll figure that out in my reading.
posted by TangoCharlie at 7:43 PM on May 31, 2011
wkearney99 - Yeah, I'd like to read about that, too. I don't want to "lament" normal lives, though. I'm happy with my own normal life and am in no hurry to change it. It's the contrast within one person's life of having to go through extremely intense situations and also having to live a normal life that I find interesting. Why WWII and not, say, Titanic survivors or that dude from 127 Hours? Dunno. Maybe I'll figure that out in my reading.
posted by TangoCharlie at 7:43 PM on May 31, 2011
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posted by Rhomboid at 5:21 PM on May 28, 2011 [7 favorites]