800 Speed Film

May 12, 2005 10:11 AM

Can you use 800 speed film in a Holga?

I will be in a bar this weekend watching a band I've been wanting to come to town. I would love to take pictures with my new Holga (with just the built in flash), but I am not sure which type of film I should use. Someone recommended 800 speed film because it is obviously going to be dark ... but the bar will have artificle/strobe lighting.

Or should I just stick with 400 speed film?

posted by jasonspaceman to Media & Arts (14 answers total)

For color negative, Fuji NPZ 800 is available in 120 format.
For black & white, you can 'push process' a regular 400 rated film (underexpose, then develop for longer). This will generally result in higher contrast.
posted by normy at 10:36 AM on May 12, 2005

Clarify a couple of things, first.

1. "The bar will have artificial/strobe lighting" -- what does this mean? If you're talking about a disco-like atmosphere, you really don't have to worry about the lights unless you keep the shutter open for a long time. Even then, the inverse-square rule should cover your butt.
2. How close are you planning to get to your subjects? If you're using a flash, the flash dictates the exposure of your subject--so you'll get a few more feet of illuminating power with a higher speed film, but is this important to you?
3. What's the maximum aperature of the lens?
4. Do you own a light meter, or have a way of deducing the exposure in any way?

posted by Civil_Disobedient at 10:39 AM on May 12, 2005

With a normal camera, 800 vs 400 won't make much of a difference. It's one stop, and if someone is annoyed by your flash, the extra stop isn't going to drive them over the edge. The Holga however, is not normal. (You didn't know? har har) Because it's locked at ~125-250/~f10, you just might need that extra stop, depending on your flash. Yeah, you'll have artificial lighting, but I'd be surprised if skin highlights meter at much more than 1/60th-5.6 @ ISO(ASA) 800, so don't bet on there being sufficient ambient light for an f8 lens alone.

As for 800 speed film, light leaks will obviously affect it more, but I don't think it will be catastrophic compared to 400. Just tape it up like you might for 400, and you should be fine. 3200 is where you start getting into trouble with all sorts of strange fog issues. Most films ASAs are derived from bizarre lab experiments that have little real world relevance, and are then filtered through the marketing dept., which likes to multiply them to make them sound like cool. 400 can behave like 320, 800 can behave like 600, 1600 can behave like 1000, 3200 can behave like 1600. It depends on a variety of factors, but there's hype in them thar numbers.

If you can afford a hotshoe->PC cord adapter, and a 3 foot PC(flash) cord, you might have fun being able to move the flash with your other hand. You might also look like a total dork, but maybe you're really hot and can pull it off, i just don't know.
posted by Jack Karaoke at 10:42 AM on May 12, 2005

Response by poster: To answer some questions:

I want to use color film.

I was hoping to not use the flash and just use the lighting that was behind the band. I will be right up against the stage, most likely, to get these pictures.

I just do not want my pictures to come out too dark or have lights from the back of the stage leak in too much. So I was hoping the 800 speed film would adjust for that.

I also can not hold the shutter as it will keep on clicking .. that is an extra modification I need to get one of these days.

And I think I have passed my hotness stage and I will not have any extra photography toys to play around with.
posted by jasonspaceman at 10:57 AM on May 12, 2005

It's sort of indeterminate what the results will be like. The Holga has a very very crappy shutter mechanism (obviously). You should use whatever film they recommend which as I recall is 400, if you're using the flash. This is because, in general, a flash is a lot brighter than ambient, so for all intents and purposes it doesn't matter how long the shutter is open, it only matters how long the flash goes off. The flash is probably set to a brightness that works better with 400 speed.

I've had a few holgas and they were pretty much worthless for anything but the most simple situations. But what do you expect, eh?

If you're looking for cheap MF, I recommend Yashica T4's or something similar. They're good TLR MF cameras under $100 last I checked. The quality is terrific. If you're going for lo-fi you'll just have to do a lot of experimenting
posted by RustyBrooks at 10:58 AM on May 12, 2005

Hmm. Upon further Holga research, you're dealing with a fixed shutter speed of 1/100th of a second an aperture range of f/8-f/11. If you don't have any metering ability, I would recommend getting a cheap flash like the Vivitar 285, set it to f/8, set your Holga to flash/sunny (f/8), then read the g/n section of whatever flash you choose to determine proper exposure distance for your film. If you've got a powerful enough flash, you can get away with 400 film no problem.

Here's some more Holga tips you might find useful.

On preview...
I was hoping to not use the flash and just use the lighting that was behind the band.

I really don't think that's going to happen. With an aperture of f/8, you need a shitload of exposure time, but then you're stuck with a 1/100 sec. shutter speed, so all your left with is needing a shitload of light to get a good exposure.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 11:04 AM on May 12, 2005 [1 favorite]

A stock Holga has a 1/100 sutter speed and maximum aperature of f/8. Which is about right for a partially overcast day with 100ASA film. Three stops to 800 is not going to let you take a decent picture of a band in a bar unless it's lit like Yankee stadium during a night game.

Either you'll need to get close enough for the included flash to be effective (probably less than 4 or 5 metres), add an auxilerary flash (either powered by the non dedicated shoe or with a slave), or go with a much faster film. Ilford makes their in 120 size. That will give you two more stops and maximum exposure latitude. Might be enough depending on ambient lighting.
posted by Mitheral at 11:16 AM on May 12, 2005

Or ya what CD said (dang delayed preview-post cycle and I still messed up the link). That link should be: Ilford makes their Delta-3200 in 120 size.

I wouldn't sweat it much. Just load a couple rolls and see what happens. Get the roll processed with out any prints and you are out less than a buck per exposure including the capital costs. Fun doesn't get much cheaper than that.
posted by Mitheral at 11:26 AM on May 12, 2005

The Holga can handle 35mm easily, so you don't have to splurge on expensive high-speed 120 film. Thing is, since the Holga is so prone to light leaks, you probably don't want to use high speed film, unless you're absolutely certain you've blocked all the potential sources for leaks. From what I've read, there are a bunch.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 11:31 AM on May 12, 2005

I was hoping to not use the flash and just use the lighting that was behind the band.

no: unless you modded it or had it modded by somebody else, the aperture's fixed at f 11 (the little lever is useless)

there's no way you'll obtain printable negatives if you expose them at 1/100th, f11 at 800ASA in a bar, even with the lame built-in flash. me, in a situation like that, I use a ring flash and push Tri-X at 800, and I get good results. and my modded Holga does f8.

unless you're willing to try and push a film like TMax3200 to, like, 12800 ASA, I don't think you can accomplish much. as others said, the Holga is what it is. in low light it can be hard to use.

I had another Holga modded to open at f5.6 and f4, the focus is always thrown out a bit, but at least it can be used in low light (or with very slow film, I still have some TechPan left)
posted by matteo at 12:23 PM on May 12, 2005

A stock Holga has a 1/100 sutter

yeah, right. have you looked at the shutter mech? It's a spring that looks like a bent paperclip. The shutter speed is whatever juice is left in the bendy spring. I've had a couple Holga's and the speed totally depends on how old it is.

But if you're shooting successfully with 400 film, you'll probably have an idea how close to accurate you readings are. I've used 800 in holga's before and it's been fine.
posted by lumpenprole at 1:54 PM on May 12, 2005

Wow. A lot of these people are full of shit. First off, you're not worrying about light leaks, because you've taped off your Holga already, right? Right. Second off, there's no reason to EVER use 35mm film in a Holga. Because, if you do, you're just using a shitty point-and-shoot instead of a Holga. The point of a Holga is getting the distortion and the larger negatives. Ok, second off, you're wanting to use color. Color is a LOT more forgiving than b&w, usually to the tune of about a stop and a half, maybe two stops (I like Ilford, it has a great tonal range). But don't be fooled by the Holga flash: it's crappy and only has a range of about two feet. Don't ever change the setting on a Holga to sunny day, as that's begging for thin negatives.
Now, onto the band photography. I've done this before, and you're really not going to get anything decent unless you're going with 16-3200 and pushing it two steps (depends on how well lit it is). Even then, it's gonna tend to be blurry and abstract. Which, with color on a Holga, can look sweet as hell. But it won't be a picture of the band per se, it'll be a big swirling mess. You might have better luck with a ring flash, but think about what your Holga looks like if you even try to shoot it indoors. Yeah, ugly. Now imagine that in a club with less than perfect lighting.
What I would do, if I were you, is switch out to infrared film. Which is still gonna be blurry and abstract, but will look cool as fuck (though it's b&w). Good luck keeping it cool in the club though.
posted by klangklangston at 7:06 AM on May 13, 2005

there's no reason to EVER use 35mm film in a Holga.

heh.




posted by matteo at 10:35 AM on May 13, 2005

Wow. A lot of these people are full of shit.

Wow. That's a lot of penned-up aggression you got there.

Second off, there's no reason to EVER use 35mm film in a Holga.

I can think of a number of reasons. First off, you get more shots in 35mm than you do with a similarly-priced 120. Second, processing is cheaper. Third, you might like the effect of having picture all the way to the sprockets. Maybe there's no reason you would ever use 35mm film in the Holga, but don't go brandishing admonishments on other people's method of expression. It makes you look like a jerk.

Color is a LOT more forgiving than b&w, usually to the tune of about a stop and a half

I think you may be mistaking slide film for negatives. There is a small degree of extended exposure sensitivity in color emulsions, but this comes at a price: b&w negatives allow for a greater degree of post-exposure chemical manipulation than color. So, you have a narrower exposure latitude (slightly), but a greater amount of post-correction available. It depends on what's more important to you.

What I would do, if I were you, is switch out to infrared film

I wouldn't complicate things at first. There's a heck of a lot more IR radiation on (surprise) bright sunny days then at night, inside a dark club. Also, you'll need to use a filter to block out the blue and green light, which will give you a thinner negative (unless you compensate by adding more light somehow). As for "keeping it cool", you really don't have to worry about the heat from a club or your hands fogging the film. Just don't leave it in a parked car with the windows rolled up.

On preview:
Yep. Exactly.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 10:41 AM on May 13, 2005