Midcareer Academic negotiations: what to look for?
April 22, 2011 12:14 PM Subscribe
Mid-career Academic Offer/Negotiations filter. Qs about questions to ask, people to see, other advice from faculty/academics wanted.
I am a scientist currently entertaining an offer (hired as associate, short 1-2 yr clock to tenure) from a private PUI/masters on the east coast. I'd be moving as an assistant prof from my current Public Masters Comprehensive institution on the west Coast.
I don't believe my current institution with their financial woes can make a significant counteroffer - even if they did it would engender such resentment as to make my stay there untenable. I have a grant which I can take with me, as it has not been awarded yet (and is tramsferrable and has been locked down at the funding office of the awarding agency on my request).
Everything on the surface of the new institution looks reasonable: they aren't rich but aren't poor, have a slightly stultifying institutional culture, an association w/ religion (I'm pretty damn agnostic, but it only appears to manifest itself ceremonially - although I'm pretty twitchy about this), the faculty in my dept *appear* collegial (although everyone knows they put their best faces on), it's a great location. It's not perfect but a step up I think.
I go there next week for startup negotiations w dept/dean and talks with the Office of Sponsored research about bringing that grant.
What questions should I be asking beyond the obvious?
Who apart from faculty, staff and the deans office/OSR should I try and talk to?
What should I be looking for for deal breakers/dark secrets?
Any other advice to get a full picture of the institution?
throwaway email libartsdecision@gmail.com
I also posted this q in CHE forums.
I am a scientist currently entertaining an offer (hired as associate, short 1-2 yr clock to tenure) from a private PUI/masters on the east coast. I'd be moving as an assistant prof from my current Public Masters Comprehensive institution on the west Coast.
I don't believe my current institution with their financial woes can make a significant counteroffer - even if they did it would engender such resentment as to make my stay there untenable. I have a grant which I can take with me, as it has not been awarded yet (and is tramsferrable and has been locked down at the funding office of the awarding agency on my request).
Everything on the surface of the new institution looks reasonable: they aren't rich but aren't poor, have a slightly stultifying institutional culture, an association w/ religion (I'm pretty damn agnostic, but it only appears to manifest itself ceremonially - although I'm pretty twitchy about this), the faculty in my dept *appear* collegial (although everyone knows they put their best faces on), it's a great location. It's not perfect but a step up I think.
I go there next week for startup negotiations w dept/dean and talks with the Office of Sponsored research about bringing that grant.
What questions should I be asking beyond the obvious?
Who apart from faculty, staff and the deans office/OSR should I try and talk to?
What should I be looking for for deal breakers/dark secrets?
Any other advice to get a full picture of the institution?
throwaway email libartsdecision@gmail.com
I also posted this q in CHE forums.
Questions to ask:
* retirement plans and options. Some schools with good start up packages have not so great retirements while other schools compensate with stellar retirement plans;
* does your sabbatical clock start all over again?
* if you have wife and or children, are there any ways to get free tuition either at the institution or other sister/consortiums
* be sure that tenure is LOCKED down. Not one of those, you are guaranteed tenure if you start as untenured faculty. You can just see how that can turn sour.
* Do serious spreadsheet on cost of living, retirement, and all other financial considerations. Use a weighted value spreadsheet when dealing with intangibles like, "weather".
posted by jadepearl at 1:28 PM on April 22, 2011
* retirement plans and options. Some schools with good start up packages have not so great retirements while other schools compensate with stellar retirement plans;
* does your sabbatical clock start all over again?
* if you have wife and or children, are there any ways to get free tuition either at the institution or other sister/consortiums
* be sure that tenure is LOCKED down. Not one of those, you are guaranteed tenure if you start as untenured faculty. You can just see how that can turn sour.
* Do serious spreadsheet on cost of living, retirement, and all other financial considerations. Use a weighted value spreadsheet when dealing with intangibles like, "weather".
posted by jadepearl at 1:28 PM on April 22, 2011
Maybe you could attend a faculty meeting at the new place? If people are still collegial, functional, etc during those, that's a pretty good sign. Most of the lousy stuff about some of the places I've been -- petty disagreements, weird rifts between different contingents on the faculty, fundamental conflicts about the department's role and future -- would have been at least a little evident during a typical departmental meeting. (Though of course there's nothing to guarantee that a meeting you attend will be "typical.") I've never actually heard of a prospective hire attending a meeting, but hey, it's worth asking.
How up in the air is your startup package? Presumably you will angle for the usual things -- funding for students, summer salary, equipment, travel, moving expenses, etc. Probably the best advice I ever heard about this was to ask for things that would transparently benefit both your research and others in the department -- e.g., a friend of mine managed to get a completely absurd startup package (for a theorist) by convincing other people in his department that the department would really benefit from more investment in local high-performance computing. So when he asked for startup funds to build a local cluster, he had a number of people in the department advocating for him (to the Dean and higher-ups). It sounds like maybe you've already gone through some of this, though.
Nthing asking about recent tenure decisions, sabbatical clock. I'm sure you already know about general teaching load, and whether they will offer you teaching relief, but can you get them to clarify how many of the courses you teach in your next couple of years (i.e. pre-tenure) will be new (to you) courses vs duplicates?
posted by chalkbored at 1:50 PM on April 22, 2011
How up in the air is your startup package? Presumably you will angle for the usual things -- funding for students, summer salary, equipment, travel, moving expenses, etc. Probably the best advice I ever heard about this was to ask for things that would transparently benefit both your research and others in the department -- e.g., a friend of mine managed to get a completely absurd startup package (for a theorist) by convincing other people in his department that the department would really benefit from more investment in local high-performance computing. So when he asked for startup funds to build a local cluster, he had a number of people in the department advocating for him (to the Dean and higher-ups). It sounds like maybe you've already gone through some of this, though.
Nthing asking about recent tenure decisions, sabbatical clock. I'm sure you already know about general teaching load, and whether they will offer you teaching relief, but can you get them to clarify how many of the courses you teach in your next couple of years (i.e. pre-tenure) will be new (to you) courses vs duplicates?
posted by chalkbored at 1:50 PM on April 22, 2011
Ask to meet with some of the colleagues you'd be most likely to collaborate with. Arrange one-on-one meetings, to ask questions about how things work.
Some things to negotiate:
- Startup package: equipment (desktop+notebook minimum), summer support (if not covered by funding), RA/TA/GA support, etc.
- Research support (I assume you are taking some funding from your post) - do they have suitable students to work as RAs & who would decide who you can hire? What Lab space will they provide + is this guaranteed?
- Teaching support: what is the teaching load (i) after the initial 1-2 years to tenure; (ii) if you do not get additional funding? Do they provide TA support? What is the average section size and do they count teaching multiple sections of the same course as a single courseload? What are the students like? Are they techy/scientific or fine arts students who will bite and kick rather than engage with your courses? Who will you be teaching: UGs or Grad students mainly? Do you have any choice in which courses you teach? How many new preps will you be expected to perform each year?
- Tenure expectations: Do they have a specific expectation about where you will publish and quantity of publications for tenure? What is their tenure review process - do you get to suggest reviewers and/or criteria for tenure based on standards in your sub-field? Can you extend the tenure clock if they decide you are not ready, or are you out?
- Post tenure service expectations (this is the killer at my institution - Deans have an infinite capacity for doublethink when it comes to balancing delegation with their expectation that you will maintain a research career). Will you still have time for any research post tenure, or will you be expected to supervise students to perform any funded research projects? What is the service load and what regular time commitment is expected (hrs/week)? What buy-outs or buydowns are available with funding and how are these assigned?
posted by Susurration at 2:12 PM on April 22, 2011 [1 favorite]
Some things to negotiate:
- Startup package: equipment (desktop+notebook minimum), summer support (if not covered by funding), RA/TA/GA support, etc.
- Research support (I assume you are taking some funding from your post) - do they have suitable students to work as RAs & who would decide who you can hire? What Lab space will they provide + is this guaranteed?
- Teaching support: what is the teaching load (i) after the initial 1-2 years to tenure; (ii) if you do not get additional funding? Do they provide TA support? What is the average section size and do they count teaching multiple sections of the same course as a single courseload? What are the students like? Are they techy/scientific or fine arts students who will bite and kick rather than engage with your courses? Who will you be teaching: UGs or Grad students mainly? Do you have any choice in which courses you teach? How many new preps will you be expected to perform each year?
- Tenure expectations: Do they have a specific expectation about where you will publish and quantity of publications for tenure? What is their tenure review process - do you get to suggest reviewers and/or criteria for tenure based on standards in your sub-field? Can you extend the tenure clock if they decide you are not ready, or are you out?
- Post tenure service expectations (this is the killer at my institution - Deans have an infinite capacity for doublethink when it comes to balancing delegation with their expectation that you will maintain a research career). Will you still have time for any research post tenure, or will you be expected to supervise students to perform any funded research projects? What is the service load and what regular time commitment is expected (hrs/week)? What buy-outs or buydowns are available with funding and how are these assigned?
posted by Susurration at 2:12 PM on April 22, 2011 [1 favorite]
Nose around a bit about the big-picture stuff regarding the department as a whole: what's the backstory on the current chair/head? how long has she/he been in the job? what strengths and weaknesses have faculty noticed thus far? what's her/his trajectory position-wise (is she/he just starting or almost finished? in it for the long haul or just stepping in in a pinch? angling to get up the institutional food chain or committed to the department itself?)? what's her/his style of leadership/management? how does/has she/he handled conflicts within the department? what were the results? what sort of track record does she/he have with advocating for the department and/or your specialty at the institutional level? As the FNG, whatever else you've been promised, you're going to be pretty dependent on your chair/head for a lot stuff to happen/turn out constructively, so you need a sense of who you'll be dealing with.
Same goes for further up the org chart: what about the Dean of the college? Same basic questions as above, but also: what academic affiliation does she/he have? similar to your discipline, etc.? how has your department stacked up against other units as far as her/his decision-making priorities in recent years? what's the overall relationship been like and how might it change? (When it comes to labs, big equipment, space, etc., your department-level activities may come in contact with the next layer of bureaucracy, so, again, you want some sense of who's up above.)
Along these lines too, it's worth getting a sense of how/how well the department as a whole operates. That is, ask about recent projects the overall department has completed collectively/collaboratively, such as mandated assessments, accreditation renewals (whether specialized/disciplinary-based or institutional), promotion/outreach around recruiting, and curriculum revision, etc. Regardless of what you've been promised or whether this stuff seems close to your anticipated daily routine, you need to find out about it because 1) this stuff matters (units that screw it up increasingly put themselves at risk in the current administrative climate on most campuses) and 2) it's the kind of stuff that you very well could find yourself drawn/forced into as the new guy, if it's the type of department where folks don't willingly step up (which itself should tell you a lot about the overall environment).
On a similar note, also get a sense of the relation between your particular specialty/program and the others in the department: these days some programs are shrinking (and hence vulnerable) while others are growing (and often resented/envied): how do colleagues outside your program perceive it? are active collaborations happening across programs? which programs are where on the spectrum from "allies" to "enemies" and why?
Finally, there's the one issue that so many academic-related decisions come down to IRL (or should): the Asshole Test -> If these folks weren't big names in whatever they do, could you imagine dealing with them in any other capacity? I don't mean you need to be best friends, but there needs to be some basic level of humanity (beyond mere civility) in those around you for a job to stay viable over the long haul. Something as simple as seeing how your potential colleagues treat and/or talk about the department secretaries/support personnel, grad students, adjuncts, etc., in casual moments can reveal a lot. It's astounding how petty, dismissive, and downright mean some academics can be to those below them on the food chain without thinking anything of it. Moreover, if you're moving up prestige ladder a bit, keep in mind that some of the biggest d-bags in the academy tend to cluster at that tier of institutions just on the edge of the reputation bubble; not the famous names but those places that most envy the names and imagine (often unrealistically) that if everyone involved, including you, would just be a bit more productive, famous, important, serious, hard-working, etc., then, got-dammit, one day soon enough they'll morph into an Ivy....
In any case, do your homework and congrats on the opportunity!
posted by 5Q7 at 5:12 PM on April 22, 2011 [2 favorites]
Same goes for further up the org chart: what about the Dean of the college? Same basic questions as above, but also: what academic affiliation does she/he have? similar to your discipline, etc.? how has your department stacked up against other units as far as her/his decision-making priorities in recent years? what's the overall relationship been like and how might it change? (When it comes to labs, big equipment, space, etc., your department-level activities may come in contact with the next layer of bureaucracy, so, again, you want some sense of who's up above.)
Along these lines too, it's worth getting a sense of how/how well the department as a whole operates. That is, ask about recent projects the overall department has completed collectively/collaboratively, such as mandated assessments, accreditation renewals (whether specialized/disciplinary-based or institutional), promotion/outreach around recruiting, and curriculum revision, etc. Regardless of what you've been promised or whether this stuff seems close to your anticipated daily routine, you need to find out about it because 1) this stuff matters (units that screw it up increasingly put themselves at risk in the current administrative climate on most campuses) and 2) it's the kind of stuff that you very well could find yourself drawn/forced into as the new guy, if it's the type of department where folks don't willingly step up (which itself should tell you a lot about the overall environment).
On a similar note, also get a sense of the relation between your particular specialty/program and the others in the department: these days some programs are shrinking (and hence vulnerable) while others are growing (and often resented/envied): how do colleagues outside your program perceive it? are active collaborations happening across programs? which programs are where on the spectrum from "allies" to "enemies" and why?
Finally, there's the one issue that so many academic-related decisions come down to IRL (or should): the Asshole Test -> If these folks weren't big names in whatever they do, could you imagine dealing with them in any other capacity? I don't mean you need to be best friends, but there needs to be some basic level of humanity (beyond mere civility) in those around you for a job to stay viable over the long haul. Something as simple as seeing how your potential colleagues treat and/or talk about the department secretaries/support personnel, grad students, adjuncts, etc., in casual moments can reveal a lot. It's astounding how petty, dismissive, and downright mean some academics can be to those below them on the food chain without thinking anything of it. Moreover, if you're moving up prestige ladder a bit, keep in mind that some of the biggest d-bags in the academy tend to cluster at that tier of institutions just on the edge of the reputation bubble; not the famous names but those places that most envy the names and imagine (often unrealistically) that if everyone involved, including you, would just be a bit more productive, famous, important, serious, hard-working, etc., then, got-dammit, one day soon enough they'll morph into an Ivy....
In any case, do your homework and congrats on the opportunity!
posted by 5Q7 at 5:12 PM on April 22, 2011 [2 favorites]
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I moved jobs the year after I'd gotten tenure at my small liberal arts college. Receiving tenure at the new job this year (my second) (assuming the chancellor doesn't reverse the decision). I was happy enough there, but I'm much happier at my new job. Fewer classes to teach, more research expectations, but also research is more valued. As it turns out, a better place to live. (which, who would have thought, moving from near Philly to Fairbanks? I do mis Ikea, though.) I'm super-happy with the decision.
Honestly, "financial woes" at your current institution would make me think seriously about the new job. Do you actually have the offer in hand? Is it (or can you negotiate it to be) a raise?
Ask about procedures for tenure and promotion, and how recent decisions have gone. What are the research expectations? What is the support for research? What are the teaching expectations, and how is teaching valued?
posted by leahwrenn at 12:32 PM on April 22, 2011