Where do you go from here?
May 8, 2005 10:52 PM Subscribe
I'm 33. I'm attractive. I earn a good salary. I live in a beautiful apartment. I drive a convertible. I'm intelligent. I've read tons of books. I've travelled a great deal. Women like me. I'm good in bed. I've driven fast cars. I've been an alcoholic. I've abused drugs. I've smoked 20 a day. I've seen shrinks at various points in my life. But still...
...people and relationships drive me crazy. The pain they cause me far outweighs the pleasure they bring, so now I use Effexor (an SSRI which (clearly;-) doesn't elevate my mood but does kill my sex drive) to defuse my physical needs, and live a highly reclusive life.
Of course, the reclusive lifestyle's getting a bit dull as I increasingly bore myself, but the only alternative I see - what feels to me as the inevitable negative equity of human relationships - seems none too appealing.
What other alternatives are there...?
...people and relationships drive me crazy. The pain they cause me far outweighs the pleasure they bring, so now I use Effexor (an SSRI which (clearly;-) doesn't elevate my mood but does kill my sex drive) to defuse my physical needs, and live a highly reclusive life.
Of course, the reclusive lifestyle's getting a bit dull as I increasingly bore myself, but the only alternative I see - what feels to me as the inevitable negative equity of human relationships - seems none too appealing.
What other alternatives are there...?
Something that might be totally unrelated (and might be wrong, so just think about it) - is your work meaningful to you?
I ask this because with me not having people around might make me feel lonely or sad, but not dull or bored. The boredom has me wondering if maybe you have to fill your life with something meaningful for you, besides people.
About the antidepressants side effects, maybe it's worth your while checking out St. John's Wort. Here is a good site about it - http://www.sjwinfo.org.
Hope this was helpful. Good luck and be well!
posted by mirileh at 11:51 PM on May 8, 2005
I ask this because with me not having people around might make me feel lonely or sad, but not dull or bored. The boredom has me wondering if maybe you have to fill your life with something meaningful for you, besides people.
About the antidepressants side effects, maybe it's worth your while checking out St. John's Wort. Here is a good site about it - http://www.sjwinfo.org.
Hope this was helpful. Good luck and be well!
posted by mirileh at 11:51 PM on May 8, 2005
Could it just be that you're an introvert? Maybe you just truly prefer solitude and your own company. Nothing particularly wrong with that, though we are all bombarded with endless cultural and social messages that proclaim otherwise.
posted by scody at 12:02 AM on May 9, 2005
posted by scody at 12:02 AM on May 9, 2005
Why do people cause you so much pain? Or, so little pleasure? Either your relationships have actually been bad, or you have a diminished ability to enjoy them - you have to figure out which. There are no good "alternatives" - certainly, chemical castration isn't a feasible long-term solution - so if you've just had bad luck, you have to get over it and get back out there; and if you're somehow wired wrong for human interaction then you have to focus on fixing that.
I fit your self-description pretty well - affluent, high self-esteem, self-indulgent, &c. - but I have no addictive tendencies. And I have terrific relationships with family, friends, and girlfriends that give me great pleasure in even the hardest times; I can't imagine wanting to isolate myself. So I'd look to that.
Also, SSRI's operate on the pleasure mechanisms of the brain, and if you've been taking them regularly may account for some difficulty finding emotional rewards in normally pleasurable stimuli. Sounds to me like you should live clean for a while.
posted by nicwolff at 12:04 AM on May 9, 2005
I fit your self-description pretty well - affluent, high self-esteem, self-indulgent, &c. - but I have no addictive tendencies. And I have terrific relationships with family, friends, and girlfriends that give me great pleasure in even the hardest times; I can't imagine wanting to isolate myself. So I'd look to that.
Also, SSRI's operate on the pleasure mechanisms of the brain, and if you've been taking them regularly may account for some difficulty finding emotional rewards in normally pleasurable stimuli. Sounds to me like you should live clean for a while.
posted by nicwolff at 12:04 AM on May 9, 2005
Thought about becoming a big brother? Mentor someone who needs the help. Imagine some poor kid, without a father that you could make the difference.
big brother association
Volunteer. Doesn't have to be big brother. Give food away at a shelter. Just go do something to better society. Bonus, you'll get to be social a bit and see people in need.
posted by filmgeek at 12:10 AM on May 9, 2005
big brother association
Volunteer. Doesn't have to be big brother. Give food away at a shelter. Just go do something to better society. Bonus, you'll get to be social a bit and see people in need.
posted by filmgeek at 12:10 AM on May 9, 2005
(Alternatives to being alone or being with people? None too many....)
I'm speaking from the standpoint of interpersonal psychology. You've listed a great many factors that most people would peg as hallmarks of a fulfilling life. If they don't fulfill you, I would gravitate toward solutions that are in the realm of changing thought and the action that follows (or vice versa, if you prefer.) It's not pessimistic or fatalistic, I think, only realistic, to say that a) the trappings of modern life and b) the life inside our heads is all there is.
Do you 'bore yourself' because you find yourself going over the same strip of land? Or is it because you feel that you, personally, have a narrow outlook that limits your take on the world? Is the pleasure you look for in relationships an unrealistic pleasure (e.g. 'People can be so demanding' or 'These people I've known do and want nothing but negative interactions and painful circumstances')?
These aren't rhetorical questions and I apologize if my treatment seems fatuous. It's not intended to be. What I mean to say is why do these things drive you crazy, why are they not satisfying. I've spent plenty of time thinking over these conditions personally and professionally. Most of the alternatives, as I see them, are a combination of one part external change and three parts internal change. Both, though, are dependent on the particular reasons that neither is working.
posted by rebirtha at 12:22 AM on May 9, 2005
I'm speaking from the standpoint of interpersonal psychology. You've listed a great many factors that most people would peg as hallmarks of a fulfilling life. If they don't fulfill you, I would gravitate toward solutions that are in the realm of changing thought and the action that follows (or vice versa, if you prefer.) It's not pessimistic or fatalistic, I think, only realistic, to say that a) the trappings of modern life and b) the life inside our heads is all there is.
Do you 'bore yourself' because you find yourself going over the same strip of land? Or is it because you feel that you, personally, have a narrow outlook that limits your take on the world? Is the pleasure you look for in relationships an unrealistic pleasure (e.g. 'People can be so demanding' or 'These people I've known do and want nothing but negative interactions and painful circumstances')?
These aren't rhetorical questions and I apologize if my treatment seems fatuous. It's not intended to be. What I mean to say is why do these things drive you crazy, why are they not satisfying. I've spent plenty of time thinking over these conditions personally and professionally. Most of the alternatives, as I see them, are a combination of one part external change and three parts internal change. Both, though, are dependent on the particular reasons that neither is working.
posted by rebirtha at 12:22 AM on May 9, 2005
A buddy of mine is in a very similar situation. He's bright, capable, funny, and a James-Dean lookalike. He's in the program, recovering (really very well) from drugs and alcohol. He sees a shrink, too. On top of that, he's on all sorts of medications, none of which I can either remember or pronounce.
But he's the most upstanding person I can ever hope to know. He was one of the first people on my wedding invitation list.
The downside? He's got a terribly low opinion of people as a whole. On top of that, he seems to gravitate towards women who don't appreciate just how great he is. I've watched this poor guy go through two 3 year long relationships in a row. He gets involved in these painful, tortured relationships and then drags them out for years beyond their obvious expiration date.
I'll tell you exactly what I tell him, over and over, until he comes to his senses. HUMAN RELATIONSHIPS ARE NOT INEVITABLY NEGATIVE!
I used to think the exact same thing. I've been depressed, addicted, solitary, and have suffered through relationships with women who don't appreciate me. I was on the verge of giving up when I met the woman who is now my fiance. She helped me realize my true self worth and I've become a better artist and a better person just from knowing her.
DO NOT GIVE UP ON PEOPLE. You might think that since you see a shrink or take meds or used to abuse drugs that you're damaged goods and that you'll inevitably ruin everything you touch (despite all of the positive characteristics that you know you have). It's simply NOT TRUE.
Start cultivating some faith in yourself. Find something that you're good at and do it for your own satisfaction. Better yet, find something that you're not good at and practice it until you are.
Don't worry about getting into long term friendships or amorous relationships right off the bat. Meet some people and be casual. Know that you're a good person and if they like you, great. If they don't, who cares?
It's like target shooting. You'll miss more than you hit the bullseye. But just like target shooting, there's no real consequence. Who cares if you miss? You're doing this for yourself.
Just get out there and be brave. Trust me. I know what it's like to stand in front of the door with my hand on the doorknob for a half an hour, debating whether of not it's really worth it to go outside.
Giving up gets you nowhere. Like my buddy and me, you already know that. It's just a matter of working up the bravery to keep going. That bravery is in there. It might take a little while of being scared and vulnerable but you'll work up a momentum until the bravery kicks in.
posted by Jon-o at 12:28 AM on May 9, 2005
But he's the most upstanding person I can ever hope to know. He was one of the first people on my wedding invitation list.
The downside? He's got a terribly low opinion of people as a whole. On top of that, he seems to gravitate towards women who don't appreciate just how great he is. I've watched this poor guy go through two 3 year long relationships in a row. He gets involved in these painful, tortured relationships and then drags them out for years beyond their obvious expiration date.
I'll tell you exactly what I tell him, over and over, until he comes to his senses. HUMAN RELATIONSHIPS ARE NOT INEVITABLY NEGATIVE!
I used to think the exact same thing. I've been depressed, addicted, solitary, and have suffered through relationships with women who don't appreciate me. I was on the verge of giving up when I met the woman who is now my fiance. She helped me realize my true self worth and I've become a better artist and a better person just from knowing her.
DO NOT GIVE UP ON PEOPLE. You might think that since you see a shrink or take meds or used to abuse drugs that you're damaged goods and that you'll inevitably ruin everything you touch (despite all of the positive characteristics that you know you have). It's simply NOT TRUE.
Start cultivating some faith in yourself. Find something that you're good at and do it for your own satisfaction. Better yet, find something that you're not good at and practice it until you are.
Don't worry about getting into long term friendships or amorous relationships right off the bat. Meet some people and be casual. Know that you're a good person and if they like you, great. If they don't, who cares?
It's like target shooting. You'll miss more than you hit the bullseye. But just like target shooting, there's no real consequence. Who cares if you miss? You're doing this for yourself.
Just get out there and be brave. Trust me. I know what it's like to stand in front of the door with my hand on the doorknob for a half an hour, debating whether of not it's really worth it to go outside.
Giving up gets you nowhere. Like my buddy and me, you already know that. It's just a matter of working up the bravery to keep going. That bravery is in there. It might take a little while of being scared and vulnerable but you'll work up a momentum until the bravery kicks in.
posted by Jon-o at 12:28 AM on May 9, 2005
Aside from the whole addictions thing, I strangely identify with your issue - when you feel your life is good, that you've been successful and things are going smoothly, it doesn't seem worthwhile to let somebody else fuck up your existing happiness. Sometimes I look at my friends who spend so much time crying over crap relationships, and I think I am soooo smart. I mean, if it ain't broke (my successful, stable life), why fix it, right? And adding in a 'relationship' to the mix might be just that.
But you know what i've decided? That for me anyway, this has just been a many-years-long excuse for being afraid of losing my independence and my stability, and being afraid of being hurt, and being fearful of making a commitment that might not make my already good life better. But you know what? For me, personally, i've just decided to get over the fear. Human beings aren't wired to be alone. It might be worth the risk of getting hurt, of the unbalancing the successful stability I've created.
I don't know though. I'm not on meds, i've never been an alcoholic. So this analysis could just be about me.
posted by Kololo at 12:45 AM on May 9, 2005
But you know what i've decided? That for me anyway, this has just been a many-years-long excuse for being afraid of losing my independence and my stability, and being afraid of being hurt, and being fearful of making a commitment that might not make my already good life better. But you know what? For me, personally, i've just decided to get over the fear. Human beings aren't wired to be alone. It might be worth the risk of getting hurt, of the unbalancing the successful stability I've created.
I don't know though. I'm not on meds, i've never been an alcoholic. So this analysis could just be about me.
posted by Kololo at 12:45 AM on May 9, 2005
Well whatever you decide to do, don't touch the booze.
posted by Dean Keaton at 12:50 AM on May 9, 2005 [1 favorite]
posted by Dean Keaton at 12:50 AM on May 9, 2005 [1 favorite]
Why don't you try "nice" or "boring" women for a while?
posted by callmejay at 12:58 AM on May 9, 2005
posted by callmejay at 12:58 AM on May 9, 2005
"What other alternatives are there...? "
I daresay none that will be fulfilling.
Relationships are a product of compromise so you need to become a bit more open minded to the possibility that other people and other ideas can be fun, interesting, loving, taxing, elevating, special, crazy, wonderful and excitingingly different.
It seems to me that at least part of what you are saying is that you don't like to let go of control. 12-step programs are pretty good at assisting people to change the way they think and become less egocentric and more empathetic. Did you try AA or did you go the intellectualizing road?
I like the idea from above about doing some volunteer work. It is so hard to see outside of ourselves when we close all the doors. Some of the most satisfying and rewarding moments in life are found when helping other people. That's where I would start - volunteering. It will likely change the way you think about people and give you the courage and wherewithall to approach the idea of close relationships with a more open mind. That you've written this AskMe question suggests that you know a bunch of this inside you anyway. Turn off the computer and go help someone.
posted by peacay at 1:29 AM on May 9, 2005
I daresay none that will be fulfilling.
Relationships are a product of compromise so you need to become a bit more open minded to the possibility that other people and other ideas can be fun, interesting, loving, taxing, elevating, special, crazy, wonderful and excitingingly different.
It seems to me that at least part of what you are saying is that you don't like to let go of control. 12-step programs are pretty good at assisting people to change the way they think and become less egocentric and more empathetic. Did you try AA or did you go the intellectualizing road?
I like the idea from above about doing some volunteer work. It is so hard to see outside of ourselves when we close all the doors. Some of the most satisfying and rewarding moments in life are found when helping other people. That's where I would start - volunteering. It will likely change the way you think about people and give you the courage and wherewithall to approach the idea of close relationships with a more open mind. That you've written this AskMe question suggests that you know a bunch of this inside you anyway. Turn off the computer and go help someone.
posted by peacay at 1:29 AM on May 9, 2005
- Try art? It's never too late to start painting, or start playing a musical instrument, or doing pottery.
- Maybe pick up a sport? An extreme sport?
Do something to give your life meaning, I guess is what I'm getting at. If you feel that kind of generativity, you'll never be bored with life.
(on a side note: Erickson would say that you'll never feel that sense of generativity until you get your intimacy stuff worked out, which is probably why lots of people are recommending you give people as a whole a second shot - something I also agree you may want to think about.)
posted by joshuaconner at 1:44 AM on May 9, 2005
- Maybe pick up a sport? An extreme sport?
Do something to give your life meaning, I guess is what I'm getting at. If you feel that kind of generativity, you'll never be bored with life.
(on a side note: Erickson would say that you'll never feel that sense of generativity until you get your intimacy stuff worked out, which is probably why lots of people are recommending you give people as a whole a second shot - something I also agree you may want to think about.)
posted by joshuaconner at 1:44 AM on May 9, 2005
From your description, it sounds like maybe you've built your image of yourself around impressing other people (and yourself). Real relationships aren't about people liking your apartment or your car, thinking you're good in bed, or making you feel successful. It's no surprise you find people unfulfilling -- the things they see in you are the least important part of who you are as a human being.
Real relationships are about exchanging tenderness. Have you ever actually cared about someone? Has anyone ever actually cared about you? Stop trying to impress and start trying to empathize with people.
The hard part is that you may have to find another way of seeing yourself. What kind of a person would you be if you weren't successful? If you can find what's valuable about you as a person, not as a list of accomplishments, you'll be ready to have a different kind of contact with other people.
posted by fuzz at 2:51 AM on May 9, 2005
Real relationships are about exchanging tenderness. Have you ever actually cared about someone? Has anyone ever actually cared about you? Stop trying to impress and start trying to empathize with people.
The hard part is that you may have to find another way of seeing yourself. What kind of a person would you be if you weren't successful? If you can find what's valuable about you as a person, not as a list of accomplishments, you'll be ready to have a different kind of contact with other people.
posted by fuzz at 2:51 AM on May 9, 2005
If you don't like relationships with people (other than, perhaps, for short-term mutual entertainment), don't try to make yourself like them. Don't treat your nature as a disease, recognize it as your nature and then structure (or destructure) your life around that fact. And if anyone attempts to start something long-term with you, be sure to tell her that you just don't go that way and that she might as well fall for a gay guy as try to marry you.
Then go nuts on something you do like. Be the best whatever it is in the world.
posted by pracowity at 3:05 AM on May 9, 2005
Then go nuts on something you do like. Be the best whatever it is in the world.
posted by pracowity at 3:05 AM on May 9, 2005
Join a drum circle or a facilitated drum circle, you will find a wide variety of people to interact with, but you don't necessarily have to talk to them. The sense of being part of the group can be quite liberating.
Drumming is good for the soul, with or without the often attendant new-age 'philosophy', you can take what you want from it.
Another option might be to take a holiday. A proper 6 month+ see the world kind of a holiday adventure. Another way to get a new perspective on people and yourself.
posted by asok at 3:21 AM on May 9, 2005
Drumming is good for the soul, with or without the often attendant new-age 'philosophy', you can take what you want from it.
Another option might be to take a holiday. A proper 6 month+ see the world kind of a holiday adventure. Another way to get a new perspective on people and yourself.
posted by asok at 3:21 AM on May 9, 2005
fuzz: From your description, it sounds like maybe you've built your image of yourself around impressing other people (and yourself). Real relationships aren't about people liking your apartment or your car, thinking you're good in bed, or making you feel successful. It's no surprise you find people unfulfilling -- the things they see in you are the least important part of who you are as a human being.
Way to go fuzz, there is no way I could have been that diplomatic.
posted by Chuckles at 3:40 AM on May 9, 2005
Way to go fuzz, there is no way I could have been that diplomatic.
posted by Chuckles at 3:40 AM on May 9, 2005
At the end of your life-
you will have wished for having more people around you that care about you and vice-versa.
make friends and make the most out of THIS SHORT LIFE.
posted by stevejensen at 4:11 AM on May 9, 2005
you will have wished for having more people around you that care about you and vice-versa.
make friends and make the most out of THIS SHORT LIFE.
posted by stevejensen at 4:11 AM on May 9, 2005
Have you thought about changing meds? There are a host of them which probably match your needs somehwhat closely. I know many people think puppies or painting or volunteering is what will snap you out of this, but frankly this seems like a med-induced stupor you are in right now.
posted by TomSophieIvy at 5:50 AM on May 9, 2005
posted by TomSophieIvy at 5:50 AM on May 9, 2005
Well you can do what I did and meet that one person who doesn't drive you crazy, feels about the same way you do about relationships, and move to a town of 1200 people in the middle of nowhere. Being a bit of a misanthrope means that you have to spend a lot more time sifting through the people you don't like to find the ones you do like but there is probably a person or two in the world how can totally relate to your mindset. Of course, everyone will project their own ideas on to the loose outline you've given us, but that's mine. The real question always is: what's the problem?
If the problem is that you're bored, get a hobby, a dog, travel more, learn a new skill, paint your house, take up tai chi.
If the problem is that you're lonely, reach out to family, join a sports team, meet people online, go for walks in the park, become someone's pen pal.
If the problem is that you're sexually frustrated, have phone sex, online sex, hire a sex worker, get better at masturbating or decide that sex is more important than being a hermit and do what you need to do to make it work.
If the problem is that you feel like you're doing everything right but you don't feel right about it, see a shrink, find a support group, lose yourself in exercise, stop caring what other people think.
If you're searching for meaning, start going to church/temple, take more psychoactive drugs, start hanging around with children, grow a plant, reaquaint yourself with nature, learn to accept some of the risks that comes from making friends.
In short, you don't have to hang out with other people, but there may be some people who are worth the hassle. If you have found this not to be the case, there's nothing wrong with being a hermit if you can keep yourself occupied and happy. For me the trick was getting over myself to the point where I could honestly see that if I thought *I* was all that, I might have things to share with other people that would enrich their lives and -- guess what? -- made me feel pretty okay as well. One day out of every ten maybe I regret it and want to go live on a mountain top someplace. The other nine days make that day worth it.
posted by jessamyn at 7:01 AM on May 9, 2005 [2 favorites]
If the problem is that you're bored, get a hobby, a dog, travel more, learn a new skill, paint your house, take up tai chi.
If the problem is that you're lonely, reach out to family, join a sports team, meet people online, go for walks in the park, become someone's pen pal.
If the problem is that you're sexually frustrated, have phone sex, online sex, hire a sex worker, get better at masturbating or decide that sex is more important than being a hermit and do what you need to do to make it work.
If the problem is that you feel like you're doing everything right but you don't feel right about it, see a shrink, find a support group, lose yourself in exercise, stop caring what other people think.
If you're searching for meaning, start going to church/temple, take more psychoactive drugs, start hanging around with children, grow a plant, reaquaint yourself with nature, learn to accept some of the risks that comes from making friends.
In short, you don't have to hang out with other people, but there may be some people who are worth the hassle. If you have found this not to be the case, there's nothing wrong with being a hermit if you can keep yourself occupied and happy. For me the trick was getting over myself to the point where I could honestly see that if I thought *I* was all that, I might have things to share with other people that would enrich their lives and -- guess what? -- made me feel pretty okay as well. One day out of every ten maybe I regret it and want to go live on a mountain top someplace. The other nine days make that day worth it.
posted by jessamyn at 7:01 AM on May 9, 2005 [2 favorites]
It's as I always suspected, jessamyn has a detailed plan to improve everyone's life. Now those of us who are all of the above have a lot of work to do.
posted by grouse at 7:17 AM on May 9, 2005
posted by grouse at 7:17 AM on May 9, 2005
I think I've mentioned before what I think is a pretty accurate phrase from Kant: the "unsocial sociability" of humankind. We drive each other crazy, but at the same time, we kinda need each other too. I think it's fair to say that people have different ranges, possibly changing at different periods in their lives, for how much social interaction they want or need, but I think it's very difficult to really achieve a meaningful life without human relationships (even reading & writing depend on human interchange of a certain kind). At the same time, human beings are not easy to get along with. We're difficult creatures in a lot of ways, all of us, so getting along with each other usually takes some kind of effort, or at least, you have to put in the effort to locate that rare person with whom interaction can be largely effortless (for you, ie, someone you naturally click the right way with - and even those relationships are just better percentages, not a whole different deal)
But I think the key is, you have to connect somehow - intellectually, emotionally, sexually/sensually, spiritually, whatever it is, feeling a deep connection to another human being on any (& you're blessed if you've found two or three levels with one person) level is most often what makes life reallly seem worth it.
I'd echo what other people have said about examining other parts of your life. Do you enjoy your work? Do you have outside interests / hobbies/ etc that get you excited? Any leftover dreams from years past? This is your one life. Don't worry about what you're expected to be doing. Figure out when you have moments of happiness and extrapolate from there.
And think about whether there's anything specific that drives you crazy about other people. Not all people have the same qualities. For instance, are you annoyed by people who are "always on"? you can look for people who are calm, enjoy solitude & nature, are 'easy-going' or consider themselves introverts...
posted by mdn at 7:27 AM on May 9, 2005 [1 favorite]
But I think the key is, you have to connect somehow - intellectually, emotionally, sexually/sensually, spiritually, whatever it is, feeling a deep connection to another human being on any (& you're blessed if you've found two or three levels with one person) level is most often what makes life reallly seem worth it.
I'd echo what other people have said about examining other parts of your life. Do you enjoy your work? Do you have outside interests / hobbies/ etc that get you excited? Any leftover dreams from years past? This is your one life. Don't worry about what you're expected to be doing. Figure out when you have moments of happiness and extrapolate from there.
And think about whether there's anything specific that drives you crazy about other people. Not all people have the same qualities. For instance, are you annoyed by people who are "always on"? you can look for people who are calm, enjoy solitude & nature, are 'easy-going' or consider themselves introverts...
posted by mdn at 7:27 AM on May 9, 2005 [1 favorite]
Have you accepted that 99.9% of all people are worthless? Humans are fairly awful creatures. You simply have to find that 0.1% that is worthwhile. My guess is that you've been surrounding yourself with the wrong types of people. It may take awhile, but don't give up looking. There are people out there who are tolerable and decent. In the mean time, get some pets if you like animals.
posted by crapulent at 7:31 AM on May 9, 2005
posted by crapulent at 7:31 AM on May 9, 2005
Have you accepted that 99.9% of all people are worthless?
What a dumb thing to say.
posted by Mean Mr. Bucket at 7:52 AM on May 9, 2005
What a dumb thing to say.
posted by Mean Mr. Bucket at 7:52 AM on May 9, 2005
I concur with TomSophieIvy, if you are going to be on Meds (and they are not necessarily the end-all be-all) you should find ones that actually work for you. I've know other people that Effexor affects this way. There is a lot of other good advice as well. The only contribution I have is to try combinations of what people have suggested. the human being is frustratingly unique, the trick is to find the right stimulus for each.
Where do you place yourself crapulent? If you assume yourself that 1 in a thousand then there is a disconnect between " 99.9% of all people are worthless" and "There are people out there who are tolerable and decent". Your original comment sounds like a justification for mass murder.
posted by edgeways at 8:48 AM on May 9, 2005
Where do you place yourself crapulent? If you assume yourself that 1 in a thousand then there is a disconnect between " 99.9% of all people are worthless" and "There are people out there who are tolerable and decent". Your original comment sounds like a justification for mass murder.
posted by edgeways at 8:48 AM on May 9, 2005
You have a profoundly pessimistic view. (duh.) A friend was helped a great deal by reading and following Learned Optimism by Martin Seligman. I'm a fan of Playing Ball on Running Water: The Japanese Way to Building a Better Life by David Reynolds. Finding some meaning or purpose in life will help, as well; the volunteer options are a great idea.
For starters, look how many strangers, or as my family refer to Internet pals, "imaginary friends," care enough to answer your question. Improving your meds is worth putting some effort into, but improving your mindset is probably more important. Good luck.
posted by theora55 at 9:15 AM on May 9, 2005 [1 favorite]
For starters, look how many strangers, or as my family refer to Internet pals, "imaginary friends," care enough to answer your question. Improving your meds is worth putting some effort into, but improving your mindset is probably more important. Good luck.
posted by theora55 at 9:15 AM on May 9, 2005 [1 favorite]
Oh, and read the Dalai Lama's book, The Art of Happiness: A Handbook for Living.
posted by theora55 at 9:17 AM on May 9, 2005
posted by theora55 at 9:17 AM on May 9, 2005
I've heard good things about "Learned Optimism" and I'm reading it right now. It's more involved and rigorous than simple "positive mental attitude" crap.
posted by mecran01 at 9:38 AM on May 9, 2005
posted by mecran01 at 9:38 AM on May 9, 2005
...people and relationships drive me crazy. The pain they cause me far outweighs the pleasure they bring, ...
People and relationships drive everyone crazy, but they value all the other stuff you get with people and relationships. There's almost always pain involved too, because there's caring involved--whether it's a friend letting you down, or a fight with a girl/boyfriend.
Other people have said it too, but maybe it's just a question of trying to shift your focus a little--on the good things you can have from relationships and friendships, and not the annoyances, or irritations or hurts (even tho they'll always be there). The pleasure i get from hanging with a friend or great sex is more important to me than the pain i may (or may not) experience later, etc.
posted by amberglow at 10:02 AM on May 9, 2005
People and relationships drive everyone crazy, but they value all the other stuff you get with people and relationships. There's almost always pain involved too, because there's caring involved--whether it's a friend letting you down, or a fight with a girl/boyfriend.
Other people have said it too, but maybe it's just a question of trying to shift your focus a little--on the good things you can have from relationships and friendships, and not the annoyances, or irritations or hurts (even tho they'll always be there). The pleasure i get from hanging with a friend or great sex is more important to me than the pain i may (or may not) experience later, etc.
posted by amberglow at 10:02 AM on May 9, 2005
"In the time of your life, live—so that in that good time there shall be no ugliness or death for yourself or for any life your life touches. Seek goodness everywhere, and when it is found, bring it out of its hiding place and let it be free and unashamed.
Place in matter and in flesh the least of the values, for these are the things that hold death and must pass away. Discover in all things that which shines and is beyond corruption. Encourage virtue in whatever heart it may have been driven into secrecy and sorrow by the shame and terror of the world. Ignore the obvious, for it is unworthy of the clear eye and the kindly heart.
Be the inferior of no man, or of any men be superior. Remember that every man is a variation of yourself. No man's guilt is not yours, nor is any man's innocence a thing apart. Despise evil and ungodliness, but not men of ungodliness or evil. These, understand. Have no shame in being kindly and gentle but if the time comes in the time of your life to kill, kill and have no regret.
In the time of your life, live—so that in that wondrous time you shall not add to the misery and sorrow of the world, but shall smile to the infinite delight and mystery of it."
- William Saroyan
Just keep in mind that no one has anything figured out, and we're all in it together.
posted by iamck at 10:03 AM on May 9, 2005
Place in matter and in flesh the least of the values, for these are the things that hold death and must pass away. Discover in all things that which shines and is beyond corruption. Encourage virtue in whatever heart it may have been driven into secrecy and sorrow by the shame and terror of the world. Ignore the obvious, for it is unworthy of the clear eye and the kindly heart.
Be the inferior of no man, or of any men be superior. Remember that every man is a variation of yourself. No man's guilt is not yours, nor is any man's innocence a thing apart. Despise evil and ungodliness, but not men of ungodliness or evil. These, understand. Have no shame in being kindly and gentle but if the time comes in the time of your life to kill, kill and have no regret.
In the time of your life, live—so that in that wondrous time you shall not add to the misery and sorrow of the world, but shall smile to the infinite delight and mystery of it."
- William Saroyan
Just keep in mind that no one has anything figured out, and we're all in it together.
posted by iamck at 10:03 AM on May 9, 2005
Nature. Get a job/take a vacation in a vineyard, farm, or park.
Avoid media, vehicles, and recreational drugs.
Eat well. Cook with olive oil; drink green tea.
Accept that it will take time.
The relationship of your life may happen when you least expect it.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 10:04 AM on May 9, 2005 [1 favorite]
Avoid media, vehicles, and recreational drugs.
Eat well. Cook with olive oil; drink green tea.
Accept that it will take time.
The relationship of your life may happen when you least expect it.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 10:04 AM on May 9, 2005 [1 favorite]
Another useful book is "Napkin Notes on the Art of Living" by Michael Duhrst. It brings you to a place where you can be an active, real participant in your life.
Also, I would highly recommend shopping around for shrinks. That is one profession where there is absolutely no consistency in what you get. It sounds like the typical relationship/tranferance/feel would be a waste of your time. I would recommend seeking a smart one who has actual competency in what causes people to change and achieve what they want. My personal preference is someone good at Neuro Linguistic Programming. Even there you need to be selective. You should experience some impact within 1-3 sessions.
posted by blueyellow at 10:05 AM on May 9, 2005
Also, I would highly recommend shopping around for shrinks. That is one profession where there is absolutely no consistency in what you get. It sounds like the typical relationship/tranferance/feel would be a waste of your time. I would recommend seeking a smart one who has actual competency in what causes people to change and achieve what they want. My personal preference is someone good at Neuro Linguistic Programming. Even there you need to be selective. You should experience some impact within 1-3 sessions.
posted by blueyellow at 10:05 AM on May 9, 2005
Hell is other people. I find the majority of people to be terminally boring and/or dishonest which are the two qualities that I won't stand. I used to try and force myself to hang out with these people anyways, which inevitably involved putting on a sort of act, and I found it to be aggravating and exhausting. The solution for me was just to be very particular about who I share my time with. You might try kicking out all the "friends" in your life you don't like. For the friends you really do like and the ones that inspire you, you should pull them closer and share yourself more with them. There are probably a lot of great people in your life that you just haven't put in the time for them. Once you have a core group of friends that you don't have to hold back with, the rest'll probably take care of itself.
Honestly, I'd really avoid the whole shrink and 'how to be happy' crap. "Happiness" is for little kids. Shrinks are people you pay to prey on your insecurities and then pay more to tell you soothing lies. For me, getting out of the whole 'happiness' business was a big step and a huge weight being lifted. Once I could forget about being happy, I could focus on the people and ideas you care about and ignore everything else. I've never been happy and will never be happy but I've had many moments, few of which that last more than a minute, that have almost pushed me to believe in a loving God.
posted by nixerman at 11:05 AM on May 9, 2005
Honestly, I'd really avoid the whole shrink and 'how to be happy' crap. "Happiness" is for little kids. Shrinks are people you pay to prey on your insecurities and then pay more to tell you soothing lies. For me, getting out of the whole 'happiness' business was a big step and a huge weight being lifted. Once I could forget about being happy, I could focus on the people and ideas you care about and ignore everything else. I've never been happy and will never be happy but I've had many moments, few of which that last more than a minute, that have almost pushed me to believe in a loving God.
posted by nixerman at 11:05 AM on May 9, 2005
"Party of One: The Loner's Manifesto" by Anneli Rufus, a fun historical/psychological exploration of the joys of having "a low tolerance for companionship," might be helpful, especially if you're dealing with feelings of inadequacy related to preferring more alone time than most other people. The folks who quickly say, "Human beings aren't wired to be alone" often forget just how much pressure there is to Join In The Fun (dating just so you're not alone, e.g.), and how much being alone is scorned and devalued in modern Western culture. Sometimes you've just got to say fuck 'em. From the back of the book:
Too often, loners buy into society’s messages and strive to change, making themselves miserable in the process by hiding their true nature—and hiding from it...A compelling, morally urgent tour de force, PARTY OF ONE rebuts the prevailing notion that aloneness is indistinguishable from loneliness, and that the only experiences that matter are shared ones.
It's a great read that might help you get over any internalized negative feelings about a stronger-than-usual preference for being alone.
Sasha Cagen's Quirkyalone stuff covers similar bases, too. Both are discussed in this three-part article, "Positively Singular."
posted by mediareport at 11:07 AM on May 9, 2005
Too often, loners buy into society’s messages and strive to change, making themselves miserable in the process by hiding their true nature—and hiding from it...A compelling, morally urgent tour de force, PARTY OF ONE rebuts the prevailing notion that aloneness is indistinguishable from loneliness, and that the only experiences that matter are shared ones.
It's a great read that might help you get over any internalized negative feelings about a stronger-than-usual preference for being alone.
Sasha Cagen's Quirkyalone stuff covers similar bases, too. Both are discussed in this three-part article, "Positively Singular."
posted by mediareport at 11:07 AM on May 9, 2005
Oh, and try a cat or two instead of a dog.
posted by mediareport at 11:10 AM on May 9, 2005
posted by mediareport at 11:10 AM on May 9, 2005
I would recommend The Group : Six People in Search of a Life. There's a woman in it who reminds me of you.
posted by RJ Reynolds at 11:58 AM on May 9, 2005
posted by RJ Reynolds at 11:58 AM on May 9, 2005
The alternative to what? Having lots of material success, being pretty pleased with yourself and avoiding the very thing you claim "drives you crazy"? What's the problem? That it's a bit dull, you say? So take up some hobbies! Go rock-climbing. Skiing. Write. Read. Learn an instrument. A language. Travel. Whatever. Life alone can be a very sweet life indeed if, as you say, relationships drive you nuts anyway.
For the record, I've had long periods of celibacy/no relationship in my life and I always dealt with the sexual frustration issue by frequent masturbation. It's not perfect, but hey, what is? We all have frustrations and regrets. Maybe this one will be yours and you just have to decide whether you're going to learn to accept it or not. Doping yourself up should always be a last resort and it doesn't sound like you're there yet, unless... could it be?... you're not giving us the whole picture here? I wonder...
posted by Decani at 12:12 PM on May 9, 2005
For the record, I've had long periods of celibacy/no relationship in my life and I always dealt with the sexual frustration issue by frequent masturbation. It's not perfect, but hey, what is? We all have frustrations and regrets. Maybe this one will be yours and you just have to decide whether you're going to learn to accept it or not. Doping yourself up should always be a last resort and it doesn't sound like you're there yet, unless... could it be?... you're not giving us the whole picture here? I wonder...
posted by Decani at 12:12 PM on May 9, 2005
The book Feeling Good is a much more helpful book on HOW to become less pessimistic.
posted by callmejay at 12:22 PM on May 9, 2005
posted by callmejay at 12:22 PM on May 9, 2005
Honestly, I'd really avoid the whole shrink and 'how to be happy' crap. "Happiness" is for little kids
heavily dependent on what you mean by "happiness." To have a life that feels good in some way, that you're glad to be there for, that fulfills something, seems to me a perfectly reasonable thing to strive toward as an adult. Perhaps the only reasonable thing to strive toward as an adult... Doesn't entail that pop-psych books or shrinks are the way to find it, but might be for some, etc.
posted by mdn at 12:48 PM on May 9, 2005
heavily dependent on what you mean by "happiness." To have a life that feels good in some way, that you're glad to be there for, that fulfills something, seems to me a perfectly reasonable thing to strive toward as an adult. Perhaps the only reasonable thing to strive toward as an adult... Doesn't entail that pop-psych books or shrinks are the way to find it, but might be for some, etc.
posted by mdn at 12:48 PM on May 9, 2005
Wish I had an answer here, as I'm in the same boat. Hobbies help, especially adrenaline-inducing hobbies. Sportscar racing, snowboarding, mt biking, rock climbing, etc., will put a smile on your face and a rush in your chest, and you can't help but make some friends along the way. I also find art (music, for me) to be a great way to channel negativity into something positive.
But, still, I feel like I'm thrashing. I'm only 34, I've done all the important stuff, and now what's the point? I find myself staying up until 6am and sleeping til 3pm. It's as if life is too easy.
posted by LordSludge at 1:50 PM on May 9, 2005
But, still, I feel like I'm thrashing. I'm only 34, I've done all the important stuff, and now what's the point? I find myself staying up until 6am and sleeping til 3pm. It's as if life is too easy.
posted by LordSludge at 1:50 PM on May 9, 2005
A bunch of good, interesting friends can lack the crap of a relationship, but keep much of the fun of people stuff. Unfortunately, good interesting friends are not something you can easily go out and find the way you can a relationship.
Crappy friends can be just as annoying, but the solution to crappy friends is simply to not have any crappy friends. People only end up in that situation if they're frightened of not having friends (which doesn't apply to you), or they don't know any better.
Lord Sludge:
Sounds like a mid life crisis :-)
I once listed many of the things I wanted to do in my life, and the sum total indicated I would need seven lifetimes to have a chance to do it all. Bummer.
posted by -harlequin- at 4:15 PM on May 9, 2005
Crappy friends can be just as annoying, but the solution to crappy friends is simply to not have any crappy friends. People only end up in that situation if they're frightened of not having friends (which doesn't apply to you), or they don't know any better.
Lord Sludge:
Sounds like a mid life crisis :-)
I once listed many of the things I wanted to do in my life, and the sum total indicated I would need seven lifetimes to have a chance to do it all. Bummer.
posted by -harlequin- at 4:15 PM on May 9, 2005
I'd agree, but it's a state of normalcy for me. I joke that I have several mid-life crises per year, heh. Maybe it's Adult ADD -- seems like I need constant stimulation to stay happy. This autumn, I'm going on a 30+ city tour with my prog metal band -- kinda cracks me up...
I can't wait to see what a REAL mid-life crisis is like!
posted by LordSludge at 12:30 AM on May 10, 2005
I can't wait to see what a REAL mid-life crisis is like!
posted by LordSludge at 12:30 AM on May 10, 2005
Unfortunately, good interesting friends are not something you can easily go out and find the way you can a relationship.
Did you just say it's easy to go out and find a relationship? Can I come live on your planet?
I'm only 34, I've done all the important stuff, and now what's the point?... It's as if life is too easy.
you already cured cancer, won a nobel prize, wrote the great american novel, brought up a beautiful family, reversed global warming, proved the Riemann hypothesis and redistributed resources to end starvation on earth, huh. Sucks to be you, I guess.
Seriously, you're stuck being alive so you may as well find a project to pursue for a while. You have to make it interesting; it's not going to work itself into a frenzy trying to get you interested (really. "it" doesn't care). Decide you want a life where you're interested, and then get yourself interested.
If you need a jump start, try psychedelic mushrooms.
posted by mdn at 6:54 AM on May 10, 2005
Did you just say it's easy to go out and find a relationship? Can I come live on your planet?
I'm only 34, I've done all the important stuff, and now what's the point?... It's as if life is too easy.
you already cured cancer, won a nobel prize, wrote the great american novel, brought up a beautiful family, reversed global warming, proved the Riemann hypothesis and redistributed resources to end starvation on earth, huh. Sucks to be you, I guess.
Seriously, you're stuck being alive so you may as well find a project to pursue for a while. You have to make it interesting; it's not going to work itself into a frenzy trying to get you interested (really. "it" doesn't care). Decide you want a life where you're interested, and then get yourself interested.
If you need a jump start, try psychedelic mushrooms.
posted by mdn at 6:54 AM on May 10, 2005
Just a sidenote to those who recommend stopping taking Effexor... don't do it by yourself or abruptly. The withdrawal is torturous. You have to taper off of it, preferably under a doctor's supervision.
posted by INTPLibrarian at 2:08 PM on May 12, 2005
posted by INTPLibrarian at 2:08 PM on May 12, 2005
I'm pretty sure this is exactly the answer you don't want, but one alternative is to explore why your relationships haven't worked out, and moreover, why that has caused you such pain. This is a way more complicated process than taking a pill, but it seems to me you're treating the wrong thing. If you have problems with relationships but are eventually drawn back to them no matter what you do, then you need to address what's going wrong, not kill your sex drive with medication. There's a certain self-flagellating monk aspect to the seclusion you describe.
Which is interesting in itself... perhaps what you really require is a spiritual inquest. Go hitchhiking or wilderness backpacking for a year. Go live at a monastery. Join a choir. Whatever you need to do to get to the root of who you are and discover what's eating you. Challenge yourself with something insane, like starting a business in another country.
Or maybe all you really need is to break your old habits. A long period alone can sort of help with that. But when you return to the world you don't really have anything to put in their place.
I'd suggest moving to the opposite corner of the country. If you are in Boston, move to Moab. If you are in CA, move to NYC. If you are in Florida, try Seattle or Portland. You need a shock to the system and a clean start in a different place where not all the people drive you crazy (and, I'll wager, where not everyone thinks you're so attractive and intelligent, etc).
Also: have you considered that perhaps you just don't like the fact that relationships may interrupt your convertible-driving, book-reading, care-free single-guy lifestyle? Sounds like you're riding pretty high and you're no doubt attached to the persona you've crafted for yourself.
But now that you're alone with that persona: surprise! It's not everything you need, after all.
posted by scarabic at 11:46 AM on May 14, 2005
Which is interesting in itself... perhaps what you really require is a spiritual inquest. Go hitchhiking or wilderness backpacking for a year. Go live at a monastery. Join a choir. Whatever you need to do to get to the root of who you are and discover what's eating you. Challenge yourself with something insane, like starting a business in another country.
Or maybe all you really need is to break your old habits. A long period alone can sort of help with that. But when you return to the world you don't really have anything to put in their place.
I'd suggest moving to the opposite corner of the country. If you are in Boston, move to Moab. If you are in CA, move to NYC. If you are in Florida, try Seattle or Portland. You need a shock to the system and a clean start in a different place where not all the people drive you crazy (and, I'll wager, where not everyone thinks you're so attractive and intelligent, etc).
Also: have you considered that perhaps you just don't like the fact that relationships may interrupt your convertible-driving, book-reading, care-free single-guy lifestyle? Sounds like you're riding pretty high and you're no doubt attached to the persona you've crafted for yourself.
But now that you're alone with that persona: surprise! It's not everything you need, after all.
posted by scarabic at 11:46 AM on May 14, 2005
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by planetkyoto at 11:36 PM on May 8, 2005