Greek to me..only in Japanese.
April 5, 2011 8:44 PM Subscribe
My oldest daughter is beginning the college application process. Neither me nor my wife hold college degrees. How best to move forward?
We live in Northern California and my daughter is currently a junior at our local public high school. She has a 3.5+ GPA, strong study skills and has yet to take her first SATs. More importantly, she early on developed an interest in Japanese language and culture, having traveled to Japan twice on her own and achieving straight A's in her first three years of Japanese language classes (teachers have begun placing her with the native speakers).
Unfortunately, I'm completely out of my element here. I want to help her with her plans for higher education but feel uniquely unqualified.
She is interested in pursuing a major in Japanese language with an emphasis on maybe teaching someday.
Questions I have include:
Is her chosen major one for which we should be looking at particular schools? Does the Hive have any recommendations?
Have you or someone you know had similar interests which you pursued through school and into the job market?
Do any resources come to mind that might help me help my daughter?
Thanks in advance.
We live in Northern California and my daughter is currently a junior at our local public high school. She has a 3.5+ GPA, strong study skills and has yet to take her first SATs. More importantly, she early on developed an interest in Japanese language and culture, having traveled to Japan twice on her own and achieving straight A's in her first three years of Japanese language classes (teachers have begun placing her with the native speakers).
Unfortunately, I'm completely out of my element here. I want to help her with her plans for higher education but feel uniquely unqualified.
She is interested in pursuing a major in Japanese language with an emphasis on maybe teaching someday.
Questions I have include:
Is her chosen major one for which we should be looking at particular schools? Does the Hive have any recommendations?
Have you or someone you know had similar interests which you pursued through school and into the job market?
Do any resources come to mind that might help me help my daughter?
Thanks in advance.
Although the fact that you and your wife did not attend college may seem like a disadvantage (and may make it somewhat more difficult for you to help her), it will likely be helpful for her when she pursues scholarships and grants. First-generation college students are eligible for lots of special programs.
Here's a quick sample; the Coca Cola one seems to get a lot of press.
Use the resources at her school (guidance office) and see if there are other organizations to provide help with applications and school choice. She may be eligible for mentoring, etc.
Good luck with the whole thing! If it's any consolation, the process had changed so radically since my parents went to college (the internet! affirmative action! more schools that accept women!) that they weren't all that much help either.
posted by charmcityblues at 9:02 PM on April 5, 2011
Here's a quick sample; the Coca Cola one seems to get a lot of press.
Use the resources at her school (guidance office) and see if there are other organizations to provide help with applications and school choice. She may be eligible for mentoring, etc.
Good luck with the whole thing! If it's any consolation, the process had changed so radically since my parents went to college (the internet! affirmative action! more schools that accept women!) that they weren't all that much help either.
posted by charmcityblues at 9:02 PM on April 5, 2011
I did a minor in Japanese and a major in Computer Science and I am just now finishing up 2 years of working for a major firm in Japan. Japanese is pretty neat and coming to Japan has really been a dream come true for me.
I am not sure about the merits of any particular school over another for Japanese language programs. I would, however, suggest that she think about what she wants to do with her Japanese major. It might be in her interest to pursue a double major or a major in another subject with a minor in Japanese (which is what I did). If she wants to go to Japan to live and work and use her Japanese, she'll need some other skills to sell herself to employers. Translation seems appealing to me, but I still haven't quite gotten the hang of how to get into that business.
I think she could probably do well with one of the UC schools such as Berkeley, and then making an active effort to do at least one study-abroad program. Even now, you could look into sending her for a summer abroad next summer with a program such as AFS. I did a summer study abroad after my Senior year of high school, and even though I knew no Japanese at the time, it was a great experience for me. For a higher-level learner, an immersive study experience can improve comfort with a language in amazing ways. You might have to save up for it, but that means that now is a great time to start!
posted by that girl at 9:02 PM on April 5, 2011 [4 favorites]
I am not sure about the merits of any particular school over another for Japanese language programs. I would, however, suggest that she think about what she wants to do with her Japanese major. It might be in her interest to pursue a double major or a major in another subject with a minor in Japanese (which is what I did). If she wants to go to Japan to live and work and use her Japanese, she'll need some other skills to sell herself to employers. Translation seems appealing to me, but I still haven't quite gotten the hang of how to get into that business.
I think she could probably do well with one of the UC schools such as Berkeley, and then making an active effort to do at least one study-abroad program. Even now, you could look into sending her for a summer abroad next summer with a program such as AFS. I did a summer study abroad after my Senior year of high school, and even though I knew no Japanese at the time, it was a great experience for me. For a higher-level learner, an immersive study experience can improve comfort with a language in amazing ways. You might have to save up for it, but that means that now is a great time to start!
posted by that girl at 9:02 PM on April 5, 2011 [4 favorites]
If you have a local friend with a degree, perhaps even one in her late 20s who's not that far out from college, she would probably be happy to provide some "been there, done that" support for your daughter as she thinks about the process.
My husband and I do this for some neighbors' kids who will be the first in their family to college. There are things we know about navigating the application maze/stress/etc. from having done it, and sometimes having a not-parent, not-school adult to run ideas by can be helpful. We proofread a lot of application essays and do a lot of parent-reassuring. :)
I agree that very few HS students (or college freshmen!) end up majoring in what they think they want to major in, though I was one of the exceptions and your daughter might be to. But the smart move is typically to go to the best school you can get into that has programs that interest you AND is affordable. Of course "best school" is subjective but you get the idea.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:09 PM on April 5, 2011
My husband and I do this for some neighbors' kids who will be the first in their family to college. There are things we know about navigating the application maze/stress/etc. from having done it, and sometimes having a not-parent, not-school adult to run ideas by can be helpful. We proofread a lot of application essays and do a lot of parent-reassuring. :)
I agree that very few HS students (or college freshmen!) end up majoring in what they think they want to major in, though I was one of the exceptions and your daughter might be to. But the smart move is typically to go to the best school you can get into that has programs that interest you AND is affordable. Of course "best school" is subjective but you get the idea.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:09 PM on April 5, 2011
I would definitely get her some time with the college counselor at her high school. My parents didn't go to college and I felt like I was at a pretty big disadvantage because they had no idea how the college application/fin aid process worked. I never sat down with my school's college counselor and that was a big mistake.
I will say that being a "first-generation" college graduate got me diddly squat when it came to grants or scholarships (I applied for college 9 years ago, so it could be different now). I researched it after my first year. Anything I got was for grades or financial need. I wouldn't really expect that to pay off like some might suggest.
I would suggest looking at schools that have good Japanese programs but that also are all-around good schools. So many people change majors that you don't want to be stuck at a school that is only good for that one thing and not at anything else the student might be interested in.
posted by elpea at 9:16 PM on April 5, 2011
I will say that being a "first-generation" college graduate got me diddly squat when it came to grants or scholarships (I applied for college 9 years ago, so it could be different now). I researched it after my first year. Anything I got was for grades or financial need. I wouldn't really expect that to pay off like some might suggest.
I would suggest looking at schools that have good Japanese programs but that also are all-around good schools. So many people change majors that you don't want to be stuck at a school that is only good for that one thing and not at anything else the student might be interested in.
posted by elpea at 9:16 PM on April 5, 2011
A Japanese major is a great thing but she should consider a double-major based on what kind of future career goals she might have. If she wants to teach (and I assume she wants to teach Japanese) she should have a linguistics background. And no matter how well she does in Japanese university classes, it is essential to live in Japan for an extended time to gain near-native/native fluency of the language AND culture.
She should consider doing a year long program in Japan where she lives with a host family and attends a Japanese university. My sister attended a program at Waseda University and had an incredible time. She speaks Japanese well enough to come off as a native speaker except obviously she might have more work to do in learning business topics or more specialized areas.
I've heard good things about Japanese programs at UCLA and University of Washington. Best of luck to you and your daughter!
posted by loquat at 9:37 PM on April 5, 2011
She should consider doing a year long program in Japan where she lives with a host family and attends a Japanese university. My sister attended a program at Waseda University and had an incredible time. She speaks Japanese well enough to come off as a native speaker except obviously she might have more work to do in learning business topics or more specialized areas.
I've heard good things about Japanese programs at UCLA and University of Washington. Best of luck to you and your daughter!
posted by loquat at 9:37 PM on April 5, 2011
I don't think you should worry too much about which schools have the best Japanese programs. I do think your daughter should consider which schools offer a Japanese major at all. Unfortunately, in this era of budget cuts, a lot of universities are eliminating classes in less-popular languages. Even if your daughter ultimately doesn't decide to major in Japanese, she will probably want to take Japanese classes. If a school offers a Japanese major, that's a guarantee that they'll offer upper-level Japanese classes.
Your daughter sounds completely awesome. I know it's daunting to work through this process, and college admissions must be especially scary in California, where the getting into the top state schools is so brutally competitive. But seriously, she's a teenager who can travel on her own to Japan. You're a parent who has raised a teenager who can travel on her own to Japan. I have a lot of faith that your family will be able to figure out the college admissions thing.
posted by craichead at 9:58 PM on April 5, 2011
She is interested in pursuing a major in Japanese language with an emphasis on maybe teaching someday.This is something I know a little bit about, because my brother speaks very good Japanese and is a high school teacher. When I say he speaks good Japanese, I mean that he lived in Japan for ten years, married a monolingual Japanese-speaker, and speaks exclusively Japanese with his wife and kids. And according to him, his Japanese isn't good enough to be a high school Japanese teacher in the US. There are just very, very few positions in the US for high school Japanese teachers. It's really hard to get one of the few jobs if you're not a native speaker. Education certification works differently in every state, and I don't know how things work in California, but in my state, it wouldn't be a good idea for a would-be high-school teacher to major solely in Japanese. She could double major in Japanese and something else, but she would want a major in a subject that was commonly taught in high school.
Your daughter sounds completely awesome. I know it's daunting to work through this process, and college admissions must be especially scary in California, where the getting into the top state schools is so brutally competitive. But seriously, she's a teenager who can travel on her own to Japan. You're a parent who has raised a teenager who can travel on her own to Japan. I have a lot of faith that your family will be able to figure out the college admissions thing.
posted by craichead at 9:58 PM on April 5, 2011
My mother, who at the time did not have a college degree,* was unbelievably helpful when I was applying to colleges - probably more helpful than I realize even now, and definitely than I realized at the time. She just buckled down and read everything she could get her hands on regarding college applications, when I didn't have the discipline or time to do it myself. I know you may not have that kind of time, but even reading a general college-applications guide or two might help you feel more confident as you guide your daughter in this process. Your question suggests you're already on this track, and as other people have pointed out, she sounds like exactly the kind of person who will make the most of college and be a huge success wherever she ends up, so also try not to stress too much.
*She's since graduated, with honors, from a top-notch university, and if I sound like a proud parent there then, well.... :)
posted by you're a kitty! at 10:09 PM on April 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
*She's since graduated, with honors, from a top-notch university, and if I sound like a proud parent there then, well.... :)
posted by you're a kitty! at 10:09 PM on April 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
I'll second the idea that the Japanese major shouldn't be the only consideration, and that relatively few schools offer Japanese courses at all - so if you start by looking for a place that has a stable Japanese program (that is, they employ full-time faculty in that program, rather than temporary faculty - I explain below how to tell).
How to find which colleges to look at?
Here is a good first step - go to the library and find their section on college guides. These will be phone-book sized tomes with listings for every college in the country. Pick up a couple and bring them home -- get ones that have lists of things like "Best Schools In the West" "Best Schools for Asian Languages", "Best Schools for First Generation College Students", that sort of thing. I always liked the books that have little narrative descriptions of the schools in addition to the statistics. There is a nice book called "Colleges that Change Lives" which is about smaller schools (some quite expensive, and because they're small they are less likely to have Japanese) that are less-famous but offer a lot of individual attention; I have a soft spot for that book. Anyway, scope out what they have and bring a few home. Then you can all page through them, take notes on places that sound like they might be good. You're making a shopping list, of places to check out.
A first big decision is whether she wants to be at a large school or a small school. Both have their advantages and disadvantages. She is more likely to find a Japanese program at a large school probably, although double-check places she's interested in because you never know.
A second big decision is whether she wants to stay relatively close to home or go far away, or if she's happy with either.
A third thing to think about is what kind of "feel" she wants in a campus. Is she a partier or a serious student or an athlete or a music fan or someone who wants to get involved in lots of clubs or someone who will want to drive home every weekend, or what? She can probably find friends to fit her tastes at a big school, no matter what her tastes, but it can be a bummer to be a non-partier on a party campus, so it's worth at least looking to see if you can get a sense of the campus's reputation. Once she narrows her list down, she can visit places to get a more accurate sense of this, too. She can visit before or after applying. Every college has an admissions office which is set up to help her through that process.
Ok - so once you've looked through the books and have a preliminary list, you can check out their websites.
1. Each website will have a place for "Admissions" or "Prospective Students" to click on - they'll probably have a video tour of campus, and some nice articles about what people are doing on campus.
2. You can go look up their Japanese departments: how many faculty do they have? Are the faculty called "Assistant Professor", "Associate Professor", or "Professor" -- those are good titles to see, they mean the faculty are full-time and have more secure positions at the school. If the faculty are called "Lecturer", "Instructor", "Adjunct Professor", "Visiting Professor", then those are part-time or less-secure positions. This is not a dealbreaker, but something to look for as a way of comparing which schools are serious about keeping permanent programs in the language.
3. Look at other departments she might be interested in.
4. Look at other aspects of the campus that interest you. What is the dorm living situation like (huge buildings or smaller? single-sex or co-ed? are you allowed to live off-campus? do they offer language-immersion houses, and if so, do they have one for Japanese)? What kinds of study-abroad options do they offer? Is the campus in a city or a small town or is it more isolated? etc.
Eventually, you want a list of places to apply, at least 3 places, maybe as many as 8 or 10 depending on many factors. You should include: one "safety" school that she is 100% likely to get into based on the GPA and SAT scores their students usually have; an "about right" one that she is more like 80% likely to get into, and then a "reach" where her chances of getting in are more of a reach, though still possible.
Talk to the high school guidance counselor or whatever they're called, get as much information as you can from them. They can talk about how to write admissions essays, where to look for financial aid, etc. A first step for financial aid is to fill out the FAFSA (Free Application for Federal Student Aid) form, which you can look through online to get a sense of what's involved. There are lots of different sources of money.
One thing that streamlines the application process is the "Common Application", where a large group of colleges all accept the same application forms and essays - so she may not have to write new essays for each school she's applying for. You can download this and look through it now to get a sense of what kinds of things the applications ask for.
(Another piece of advice is this: there are a lot of great colleges out there, and chances are she will do well wherever she ends up. This can be a stressful process, worrying about whether you're looking at the right places and will she get in and so on. But in stressful moments you will want to remember and remind her, these places are really all very good.)
posted by LobsterMitten at 10:19 PM on April 5, 2011 [4 favorites]
How to find which colleges to look at?
Here is a good first step - go to the library and find their section on college guides. These will be phone-book sized tomes with listings for every college in the country. Pick up a couple and bring them home -- get ones that have lists of things like "Best Schools In the West" "Best Schools for Asian Languages", "Best Schools for First Generation College Students", that sort of thing. I always liked the books that have little narrative descriptions of the schools in addition to the statistics. There is a nice book called "Colleges that Change Lives" which is about smaller schools (some quite expensive, and because they're small they are less likely to have Japanese) that are less-famous but offer a lot of individual attention; I have a soft spot for that book. Anyway, scope out what they have and bring a few home. Then you can all page through them, take notes on places that sound like they might be good. You're making a shopping list, of places to check out.
A first big decision is whether she wants to be at a large school or a small school. Both have their advantages and disadvantages. She is more likely to find a Japanese program at a large school probably, although double-check places she's interested in because you never know.
A second big decision is whether she wants to stay relatively close to home or go far away, or if she's happy with either.
A third thing to think about is what kind of "feel" she wants in a campus. Is she a partier or a serious student or an athlete or a music fan or someone who wants to get involved in lots of clubs or someone who will want to drive home every weekend, or what? She can probably find friends to fit her tastes at a big school, no matter what her tastes, but it can be a bummer to be a non-partier on a party campus, so it's worth at least looking to see if you can get a sense of the campus's reputation. Once she narrows her list down, she can visit places to get a more accurate sense of this, too. She can visit before or after applying. Every college has an admissions office which is set up to help her through that process.
Ok - so once you've looked through the books and have a preliminary list, you can check out their websites.
1. Each website will have a place for "Admissions" or "Prospective Students" to click on - they'll probably have a video tour of campus, and some nice articles about what people are doing on campus.
2. You can go look up their Japanese departments: how many faculty do they have? Are the faculty called "Assistant Professor", "Associate Professor", or "Professor" -- those are good titles to see, they mean the faculty are full-time and have more secure positions at the school. If the faculty are called "Lecturer", "Instructor", "Adjunct Professor", "Visiting Professor", then those are part-time or less-secure positions. This is not a dealbreaker, but something to look for as a way of comparing which schools are serious about keeping permanent programs in the language.
3. Look at other departments she might be interested in.
4. Look at other aspects of the campus that interest you. What is the dorm living situation like (huge buildings or smaller? single-sex or co-ed? are you allowed to live off-campus? do they offer language-immersion houses, and if so, do they have one for Japanese)? What kinds of study-abroad options do they offer? Is the campus in a city or a small town or is it more isolated? etc.
Eventually, you want a list of places to apply, at least 3 places, maybe as many as 8 or 10 depending on many factors. You should include: one "safety" school that she is 100% likely to get into based on the GPA and SAT scores their students usually have; an "about right" one that she is more like 80% likely to get into, and then a "reach" where her chances of getting in are more of a reach, though still possible.
Talk to the high school guidance counselor or whatever they're called, get as much information as you can from them. They can talk about how to write admissions essays, where to look for financial aid, etc. A first step for financial aid is to fill out the FAFSA (Free Application for Federal Student Aid) form, which you can look through online to get a sense of what's involved. There are lots of different sources of money.
One thing that streamlines the application process is the "Common Application", where a large group of colleges all accept the same application forms and essays - so she may not have to write new essays for each school she's applying for. You can download this and look through it now to get a sense of what kinds of things the applications ask for.
(Another piece of advice is this: there are a lot of great colleges out there, and chances are she will do well wherever she ends up. This can be a stressful process, worrying about whether you're looking at the right places and will she get in and so on. But in stressful moments you will want to remember and remind her, these places are really all very good.)
posted by LobsterMitten at 10:19 PM on April 5, 2011 [4 favorites]
If she is interested in Japanese language, I would highly, highly recommend a year abroad as a Rotary exchange student after her senior year of high school and before her freshman year of college. Rotary is a cheap-ish foreign exchange option, and my friends who did it AFTER high school basically became incredibly cosmopolitan world travelers. (Friends who did it during high school as juniors had a rougher time- I think 16 is too young for some kids to go, and you can't really tell if you're too young beforehand. 18 seems to be more comfortable.)
Schools on the West Coast will have stronger connections to Asia generally, since they are part of the Pacific Rim. In addition to Japanese language, those programs are often called "Asian Studies" and in some cases "Pacific Rim Studies."
Nthing the advice to look for the school with the best Japanese program AND a solid academic reputation. She might change her mind, and transferring is unpleasant (I did it twice.).
You can look for schools at review.com and collegeboard.com. They are good for large-scale sifting out of options. The Fiske Guide to Colleges is a big old boat of a book that I highlighted the heck out of during my many college searches. "Colleges That Change Lives" is a book on the advantages of small, liberal arts colleges that don't have as much of a profile as your Amhersts and Swarthmores, although I think it still skews pretty east coast, but it does have good general advice on choosing a school.
If your local community college has any kind of a "Help With FAFSA" night, go to that. The FAFSA is obnoxious, but you can figure it out with a little help. DON'T pay anyone to help you fill out the FAFSA.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 10:24 PM on April 5, 2011
Schools on the West Coast will have stronger connections to Asia generally, since they are part of the Pacific Rim. In addition to Japanese language, those programs are often called "Asian Studies" and in some cases "Pacific Rim Studies."
Nthing the advice to look for the school with the best Japanese program AND a solid academic reputation. She might change her mind, and transferring is unpleasant (I did it twice.).
You can look for schools at review.com and collegeboard.com. They are good for large-scale sifting out of options. The Fiske Guide to Colleges is a big old boat of a book that I highlighted the heck out of during my many college searches. "Colleges That Change Lives" is a book on the advantages of small, liberal arts colleges that don't have as much of a profile as your Amhersts and Swarthmores, although I think it still skews pretty east coast, but it does have good general advice on choosing a school.
If your local community college has any kind of a "Help With FAFSA" night, go to that. The FAFSA is obnoxious, but you can figure it out with a little help. DON'T pay anyone to help you fill out the FAFSA.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 10:24 PM on April 5, 2011
If she's a junior now and has not taken the SAT, that needs to be your first step. I'm surprised the school hasn't been more assertive on that front. If she's not signed up, she should be soon (no idea when the next one is), and then depending on how that goes, maybe look into some prep work. When she's applying in the fall, she'll need to have an SAT (or ACT) score to even know where to think about applying, and she will likely want to take a couple shots at it to get a score she (and prospective colleges!) are happy with.
I think some parents over-emphasize/over-prep their kids for the SAT, but it is among the most important (if not the single most important) factor in getting into college. The best thing you can do right now is make sure it's done right.
posted by SuperNova at 10:30 PM on April 5, 2011
I think some parents over-emphasize/over-prep their kids for the SAT, but it is among the most important (if not the single most important) factor in getting into college. The best thing you can do right now is make sure it's done right.
posted by SuperNova at 10:30 PM on April 5, 2011
Something short: Don't shell out big bucks for a 'brand recognized' college. Get a degree from a reasonable/affordable university/college with good internship/research connections. If your daughter continues her great work in her first two years the research and internship opportunities should be plentiful. These opportunities will be what really helps to define her to future employers as just about everyone now has a bachelors.
With regards to financial aid... its a long hard slog through Google for most people.
Also, think of her hobbies/activities when looking at the college town. Four years is a damn long time to spend without something you love.
posted by Slackermagee at 11:51 PM on April 5, 2011
With regards to financial aid... its a long hard slog through Google for most people.
Also, think of her hobbies/activities when looking at the college town. Four years is a damn long time to spend without something you love.
posted by Slackermagee at 11:51 PM on April 5, 2011
If you can afford the application fees, she should be applying for about 8 colleges. Not only will that mean she is more likely to be accepted somewhere, but she is more likely to get a reasonable financial aid package as well.
The parents and financial aid forums on college confidential might be helpful. Ignore the other forums on there, they are not helpful.
posted by plonkee at 12:45 AM on April 6, 2011
The parents and financial aid forums on college confidential might be helpful. Ignore the other forums on there, they are not helpful.
posted by plonkee at 12:45 AM on April 6, 2011
A. Three tiers of school applications:
1) dream schools - long-shots (25%)
2) likely acceptances - great second-tier schools (50%)
3) safety schools - gotta go somewhere* (25%)
*One alternative with safety schools -- at least in California -- was always to go to community college for the first two years and then transfer to the UCs. Many people who missed UCLA the first time were able to go this route and had the combined benefit of very low cost for the first two years and all the professional advantages a UCLA degree brings.
There is a social cost, so it's not a preferred option, however it is something to investigate if you end up looking at safety schools.
B. Professional roadmap. Does she intend to get a grad degree at some point? If so, the key will be the research area and faculty. At this point, focus on the programmes as well as the schools as the faculty in those programmes can do a lot in facilitating the next step.
C. Push Push Push.
Malcolm Gladwell wrote in one of his books about the difference between wealth people and poor people -- it was the doctor's office example. Basically, wealthy people feel entitled to things and look at professional services as products like any other. Poor people can be intimated by the credentials and thus don't push as hard. (Not that I love me all of Gladwell but I think he has a point here.)
Hold nothing back in terms of getting your daughter into the place she will achieve best. Make calls. Go to events. Get in people's faces. Have no ego. Never let the fact that the parent's do not have degrees ever for a moment impact what you do in this process. If she is capable and diligent, she deserves the best shot just like anyone else.
This is important as I have seen over and over, parents without degrees get intimidated by the system because they haven't seen it before. F*ck that. Get yours. I'll repeat because it's important. You're lack of degree has nothing to do with her opportunities now. Have no ego. No regrets. Push push push and launch her as far as possible forward. There are plenty of resources to rely upon. And it's always better to ask for forgiveness than permission.
D. Brand names schools and loans
It's an ugly little truth of life but the brand names make a HUGE difference. I went to a regional school for undergrad and one of the world's leading universities for grad school and the difference is astounding. With the regional universities, I have to talk my way into situations and opportunities and with the brand name, I have to talk my way out of them.
It's a huge financial commitment but those schools are expensive for a reason. If the goal is professional acclimation, they can completely change her life and set of opportunities.
They are not the end-all-be-all nor a panacea in themselves but the opportunities that those names brings is substantial.
That being said, not going to them is by no-means a professional death sentence. However, they make things substantially easier.
posted by nickrussell at 1:23 AM on April 6, 2011 [2 favorites]
1) dream schools - long-shots (25%)
2) likely acceptances - great second-tier schools (50%)
3) safety schools - gotta go somewhere* (25%)
*One alternative with safety schools -- at least in California -- was always to go to community college for the first two years and then transfer to the UCs. Many people who missed UCLA the first time were able to go this route and had the combined benefit of very low cost for the first two years and all the professional advantages a UCLA degree brings.
There is a social cost, so it's not a preferred option, however it is something to investigate if you end up looking at safety schools.
B. Professional roadmap. Does she intend to get a grad degree at some point? If so, the key will be the research area and faculty. At this point, focus on the programmes as well as the schools as the faculty in those programmes can do a lot in facilitating the next step.
C. Push Push Push.
Malcolm Gladwell wrote in one of his books about the difference between wealth people and poor people -- it was the doctor's office example. Basically, wealthy people feel entitled to things and look at professional services as products like any other. Poor people can be intimated by the credentials and thus don't push as hard. (Not that I love me all of Gladwell but I think he has a point here.)
Hold nothing back in terms of getting your daughter into the place she will achieve best. Make calls. Go to events. Get in people's faces. Have no ego. Never let the fact that the parent's do not have degrees ever for a moment impact what you do in this process. If she is capable and diligent, she deserves the best shot just like anyone else.
This is important as I have seen over and over, parents without degrees get intimidated by the system because they haven't seen it before. F*ck that. Get yours. I'll repeat because it's important. You're lack of degree has nothing to do with her opportunities now. Have no ego. No regrets. Push push push and launch her as far as possible forward. There are plenty of resources to rely upon. And it's always better to ask for forgiveness than permission.
D. Brand names schools and loans
It's an ugly little truth of life but the brand names make a HUGE difference. I went to a regional school for undergrad and one of the world's leading universities for grad school and the difference is astounding. With the regional universities, I have to talk my way into situations and opportunities and with the brand name, I have to talk my way out of them.
It's a huge financial commitment but those schools are expensive for a reason. If the goal is professional acclimation, they can completely change her life and set of opportunities.
They are not the end-all-be-all nor a panacea in themselves but the opportunities that those names brings is substantial.
That being said, not going to them is by no-means a professional death sentence. However, they make things substantially easier.
posted by nickrussell at 1:23 AM on April 6, 2011 [2 favorites]
I do this kind of stuff for a living. If you want to ask a few q's or get some free advice on application or SAT stuff, drop me a MeMail.
One thing, though, is that being a first-generation college applicant is a big plus at top-tier private colleges.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 4:59 AM on April 6, 2011
One thing, though, is that being a first-generation college applicant is a big plus at top-tier private colleges.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 4:59 AM on April 6, 2011
I'm so glad you're asking for help about this.
There's some great advice above, but I wanted to encourage you to think about her college experience not as the opportunity to learn a trade and prepare for work, but as an opportunity to grow, learn and make relationships that will last her throughout her life.
You should read, as suggested above, all those books, as well as Colleges That Change Lives.
What those of us, like me and you, who didn't go to college maybe didn't know was that college wasn't about becoming an expert in a thing and then going off to do that in the workplace. College is about learning how to think, and meeting people, as well as delving deep in a subject, or an array of subjects.
I had a great meeting with a high school junior the other day, who was just beginning this process, but it took him a while to articulate what he wanted out of college. No one asked him! (And guess what? He wanted to be rich! Ha! Well, that's a fine goal. And that means he needs to apply to a school where he'll meet rich people that he can go into business with after graduation. Seriously. So he should NOT apply to wonderful small liberal arts schools, or tradey specialist schools, but colleges with ambitious, well-off children.) Every young person has different goals, and it's important for them to be honest about them.
So there are questions like:
School size
Class size
Devotion or lack of devotion on the school's part to athletics
Geography
Proximity to cities (or distance from them!)
Student body makeup: is it a monoculture? Is it diverse? What is the school actually like?
In closing, because your daughter has good test scores and grades, there are two things that are important.
1. Getting to know potential schools as they get to know her. Now is when you start making contact with schools. And you can call the admissions office and say, "Hi, I do not know what I am doing. I did not go to college but I have a very bright daughter who has great academics and I wanted her to get to know your school. How do I do that?"
2. The essay. The essay section of the application is where she distinguishes herself from the huge mass of applicants. The more she can write about who she really is, how she sees herself at the school and how she is a leader and an amazing person, well... that counts a lot more than test scores and grades. She should read essays online of people who have been accepted to colleges that she wants to attend.
posted by RJ Reynolds at 5:29 AM on April 6, 2011
There's some great advice above, but I wanted to encourage you to think about her college experience not as the opportunity to learn a trade and prepare for work, but as an opportunity to grow, learn and make relationships that will last her throughout her life.
You should read, as suggested above, all those books, as well as Colleges That Change Lives.
What those of us, like me and you, who didn't go to college maybe didn't know was that college wasn't about becoming an expert in a thing and then going off to do that in the workplace. College is about learning how to think, and meeting people, as well as delving deep in a subject, or an array of subjects.
I had a great meeting with a high school junior the other day, who was just beginning this process, but it took him a while to articulate what he wanted out of college. No one asked him! (And guess what? He wanted to be rich! Ha! Well, that's a fine goal. And that means he needs to apply to a school where he'll meet rich people that he can go into business with after graduation. Seriously. So he should NOT apply to wonderful small liberal arts schools, or tradey specialist schools, but colleges with ambitious, well-off children.) Every young person has different goals, and it's important for them to be honest about them.
So there are questions like:
School size
Class size
Devotion or lack of devotion on the school's part to athletics
Geography
Proximity to cities (or distance from them!)
Student body makeup: is it a monoculture? Is it diverse? What is the school actually like?
In closing, because your daughter has good test scores and grades, there are two things that are important.
1. Getting to know potential schools as they get to know her. Now is when you start making contact with schools. And you can call the admissions office and say, "Hi, I do not know what I am doing. I did not go to college but I have a very bright daughter who has great academics and I wanted her to get to know your school. How do I do that?"
2. The essay. The essay section of the application is where she distinguishes herself from the huge mass of applicants. The more she can write about who she really is, how she sees herself at the school and how she is a leader and an amazing person, well... that counts a lot more than test scores and grades. She should read essays online of people who have been accepted to colleges that she wants to attend.
posted by RJ Reynolds at 5:29 AM on April 6, 2011
I don't know anything about majoring in Japanese in college, so I can't help on that front. But I want to chime in to say that she should definitely take an SAT prep class. Instead of Stanley Kaplan or the Princeton Review, I recommend looking into smaller, well-regarded, test-prep companies like Power Score.
Her application essay will also be very important; I recommend On Writing the College Application Essay: The Key to Acceptance and the College of your Choice by Harry Bauld.
posted by buriedpaul at 6:20 AM on April 6, 2011
Her application essay will also be very important; I recommend On Writing the College Application Essay: The Key to Acceptance and the College of your Choice by Harry Bauld.
posted by buriedpaul at 6:20 AM on April 6, 2011
This might be thinking a bit down the road but my cousin just graduated from high school and she was participating in a Rotary International program in Japan before the earthquake. There's also the JET (Japan Education and Teaching) Programme that may interest her after college.
posted by kat518 at 7:08 AM on April 6, 2011
posted by kat518 at 7:08 AM on April 6, 2011
My son is off to college in the fall. Here are some general things I learned that helped IMMENSELY:
Have your daughter apply to FAFSA right away. We waited on this because we knew we would not be eligible for Federal financial aid due to our income---but applying puts your potential college student in the queue for all kinds of grants, scholarships, etc. that need that basic information as well, not just those based on financial aid. That's the first step.
She may need to take the SAT more than once to get a high enough score to earn some scholarships, so have your daughter take it as early as possible her senior year, if not this year. Our son had good SAT scores, but by taking it enough to earn just 20 more points, he has become eligible for a scholarship many of his friends didn't qualify for, despite excellent grades, because they didn't bother to retake the SAT. They just knew they had scores high enough to be admitted to the colleges they wanted and didn't research it. These kinds of things are more important to parents--we had to impress on our son that any savings was worth going for, even if it was only "a few hundred dollars". Kids sometimes have a warped view of money if they have devoted themselves to their academic success and not held actual paying jobs yet.
Definitely see the school guidance counselor. You may never even have spoken to this person, but that's the individual that gets all the information on the various college application requirements, scholarships, the works. Make this person your friend. My son's counselor encouraged him to turn in some scholarship paperwork for applications she knew few other students had bothered to apply to, because we were so involved with her, and though we don't know yet how those applications are going, her assistance with everything has been invaluable.
Applying to FAFSA and putting Japanese language down as a potential major will get your daughter put on whatever watch lists these colleges have, and then she will be targeted with emails, etc. about their programs. This can help you make a decision (I personally don't know much about that angle). I would recommend putting your home email down as the contact, because, again, parents are more concerned with this than their kids, in general. To us, there is more of an immediacy about things, while they feel that something that is months away is too far in the future to worry about sometimes. So you can keep track of who has contacted you and whether you and your daughter are interested in researching that school, and then following up that she has replied if so.
Good luck, and congratulations on your daughter's academic success--you deserve some credit for guiding her so well so far!
posted by misha at 7:55 AM on April 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
Have your daughter apply to FAFSA right away. We waited on this because we knew we would not be eligible for Federal financial aid due to our income---but applying puts your potential college student in the queue for all kinds of grants, scholarships, etc. that need that basic information as well, not just those based on financial aid. That's the first step.
She may need to take the SAT more than once to get a high enough score to earn some scholarships, so have your daughter take it as early as possible her senior year, if not this year. Our son had good SAT scores, but by taking it enough to earn just 20 more points, he has become eligible for a scholarship many of his friends didn't qualify for, despite excellent grades, because they didn't bother to retake the SAT. They just knew they had scores high enough to be admitted to the colleges they wanted and didn't research it. These kinds of things are more important to parents--we had to impress on our son that any savings was worth going for, even if it was only "a few hundred dollars". Kids sometimes have a warped view of money if they have devoted themselves to their academic success and not held actual paying jobs yet.
Definitely see the school guidance counselor. You may never even have spoken to this person, but that's the individual that gets all the information on the various college application requirements, scholarships, the works. Make this person your friend. My son's counselor encouraged him to turn in some scholarship paperwork for applications she knew few other students had bothered to apply to, because we were so involved with her, and though we don't know yet how those applications are going, her assistance with everything has been invaluable.
Applying to FAFSA and putting Japanese language down as a potential major will get your daughter put on whatever watch lists these colleges have, and then she will be targeted with emails, etc. about their programs. This can help you make a decision (I personally don't know much about that angle). I would recommend putting your home email down as the contact, because, again, parents are more concerned with this than their kids, in general. To us, there is more of an immediacy about things, while they feel that something that is months away is too far in the future to worry about sometimes. So you can keep track of who has contacted you and whether you and your daughter are interested in researching that school, and then following up that she has replied if so.
Good luck, and congratulations on your daughter's academic success--you deserve some credit for guiding her so well so far!
posted by misha at 7:55 AM on April 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
Your daughter knows lots of people with college degrees -- her teachers. Do you know any of them socially? You could certainly make an appointment to meet one of them after school anyway, to talk through what you need to know. In addition, talk to a young graduate about what students need to know.
Is your daughter a Girl Scout? They have a lot of experience encouraging first-generation undergraduates.
posted by Idcoytco at 8:37 AM on April 6, 2011
Is your daughter a Girl Scout? They have a lot of experience encouraging first-generation undergraduates.
posted by Idcoytco at 8:37 AM on April 6, 2011
I echo the general sentiment of picking a school that HAS Japanese classes (and a study abroad program, and a Japanese club), but being open to a complementary major.
How about making a schedule? Assuming she is currently a junior...
APRIL
+ Schedule the SAT!
+ Research colleges/universities and identify
potential interests
+ Gather the following items: Transcript,
Schedule, Suspension History
+ Schedule a meeting with her guidance counselor - they will likely be the least busy at the very beginning and very end of the year, so she'll beat the rush.
MAY
+ Continue researching Colleges/Universities, identify potential interests.
+ Begin narrowing school list and plan to visit several campuses during June/July
+ Begin researching scholarships (There are always local scholarships that no one knows about - I've seen kids get scholarships from bowling leagues, and every $100 makes a dent
+ If she's not satisfied with her SAT score, register for another one
JUNE - JULY
+ Visit colleges
+ Continue reseraching and applying for scholarships
SEPTEMBER
+ Find out how to apply to top-pick schools. Many may use the "Common Application" - it's online, free, and may save a lot of time
+ Set benchmarks for completing applications
OCTOBER
+ Continue working on applications
+ Begin asking for letters of recommendation
+ Begin writing/editing supplemental essays
+ Set benchmarks for receiving recommendation letters and completing essays
+ Get application fee waivers (if you're income is low enough)
NOVEMBER
+ Turn everything in a month early, and enjoy the rest of senior year!
THROUGHOUT
make friends with potential mentors. hang out after school with select teachers, bring treats to the guidance counselor, volunteer to help whatever adult runs a student organization (track coach needs help getting water? forensics coach needs help recruiting underclassmen?)
posted by jander03 at 8:59 AM on April 6, 2011
How about making a schedule? Assuming she is currently a junior...
APRIL
+ Schedule the SAT!
+ Research colleges/universities and identify
potential interests
+ Gather the following items: Transcript,
Schedule, Suspension History
+ Schedule a meeting with her guidance counselor - they will likely be the least busy at the very beginning and very end of the year, so she'll beat the rush.
MAY
+ Continue researching Colleges/Universities, identify potential interests.
+ Begin narrowing school list and plan to visit several campuses during June/July
+ Begin researching scholarships (There are always local scholarships that no one knows about - I've seen kids get scholarships from bowling leagues, and every $100 makes a dent
+ If she's not satisfied with her SAT score, register for another one
JUNE - JULY
+ Visit colleges
+ Continue reseraching and applying for scholarships
SEPTEMBER
+ Find out how to apply to top-pick schools. Many may use the "Common Application" - it's online, free, and may save a lot of time
+ Set benchmarks for completing applications
OCTOBER
+ Continue working on applications
+ Begin asking for letters of recommendation
+ Begin writing/editing supplemental essays
+ Set benchmarks for receiving recommendation letters and completing essays
+ Get application fee waivers (if you're income is low enough)
NOVEMBER
+ Turn everything in a month early, and enjoy the rest of senior year!
THROUGHOUT
make friends with potential mentors. hang out after school with select teachers, bring treats to the guidance counselor, volunteer to help whatever adult runs a student organization (track coach needs help getting water? forensics coach needs help recruiting underclassmen?)
posted by jander03 at 8:59 AM on April 6, 2011
As a first generation college student with a special skill (high level Japanese language proficiency), as long as her SATs are good, your daughter should be applying to elite, need-blind schools. As long as you (the parents) are not super-rich, your child should get full-ride scholarships from this type of school, if she is accepted.
posted by hworth at 9:28 AM on April 6, 2011
posted by hworth at 9:28 AM on April 6, 2011
As someone who's gone through the application process 5 times (3 times undergrad, twice post-grad), take my advice and DO LOTS OF RESEARCH.
First you'll want to talk over your daughter's career path. Japanese language may be fun for her and she may be fantastic at it, but are there jobs in the future for which that talent will prepare her? I'm not saying there are not; I'm saying you need to answer that question for yourselves. If you decide it's good, then move on. If not, maybe she should take it as a minor and focus on developing another talent. Personally, I didn't know what to do for a career when I was applying and I changed my mind a few times (hence the 3 undergrad apps). I finally decided on Physics because I loved it and I knew it could translate well into multiple career paths. Had I known then that I would really enjoy electrical engineering, I would have probably double majored. But to be fair to myself, it took 4 years of working and experiencing many different engineering fields to come to that conclusion so I don't feel too bad about my choices.
After you've chosen the program, you'll want to look for appropriate schools. The UC system is a great place to start. They're great schools, they're cheap (although getting less so year after year), and they aren't far from home. I can't speak specifically about Japanese but I can't imagine none of the UCs having a strong language department. Outside of that, there are a couple magazines (consumer reports comes to mind) which rank colleges and individual departments. While these rankings are often criticized, it would be a good place to start. Take the top ten or so in Japanese Language or Foreign Language or whatever is closest and start looking at those.
For the SATs and grades, you just need to work at it. For the essays, you need to think hard and develop a good narrative. She should definitely talk about her experience being the first in her family to apply to college. What other difficulties has she overcome? What kind of epiphany moments can she share? These are all good topics for the essay. In my most recent essays I found myself writing a lot about the experiences of my parents, how they worked so hard to give their kids the best chances, and about how I came to realize this.
Find some friends who are good writers and have a few of them edit for her. It's always good to have fresh eyes see your piece.
Expect to spend ~$1k on applications. They are not cheap...
I hope this adds to what the others have said. Good luck!
posted by cman at 9:32 AM on April 6, 2011
First you'll want to talk over your daughter's career path. Japanese language may be fun for her and she may be fantastic at it, but are there jobs in the future for which that talent will prepare her? I'm not saying there are not; I'm saying you need to answer that question for yourselves. If you decide it's good, then move on. If not, maybe she should take it as a minor and focus on developing another talent. Personally, I didn't know what to do for a career when I was applying and I changed my mind a few times (hence the 3 undergrad apps). I finally decided on Physics because I loved it and I knew it could translate well into multiple career paths. Had I known then that I would really enjoy electrical engineering, I would have probably double majored. But to be fair to myself, it took 4 years of working and experiencing many different engineering fields to come to that conclusion so I don't feel too bad about my choices.
After you've chosen the program, you'll want to look for appropriate schools. The UC system is a great place to start. They're great schools, they're cheap (although getting less so year after year), and they aren't far from home. I can't speak specifically about Japanese but I can't imagine none of the UCs having a strong language department. Outside of that, there are a couple magazines (consumer reports comes to mind) which rank colleges and individual departments. While these rankings are often criticized, it would be a good place to start. Take the top ten or so in Japanese Language or Foreign Language or whatever is closest and start looking at those.
For the SATs and grades, you just need to work at it. For the essays, you need to think hard and develop a good narrative. She should definitely talk about her experience being the first in her family to apply to college. What other difficulties has she overcome? What kind of epiphany moments can she share? These are all good topics for the essay. In my most recent essays I found myself writing a lot about the experiences of my parents, how they worked so hard to give their kids the best chances, and about how I came to realize this.
Find some friends who are good writers and have a few of them edit for her. It's always good to have fresh eyes see your piece.
Expect to spend ~$1k on applications. They are not cheap...
I hope this adds to what the others have said. Good luck!
posted by cman at 9:32 AM on April 6, 2011
To be honest I think that any Japanese major program in the North America is going to be a huge waste of time, as you learn much much faster through immersion. To put it into perspective, I spent about a year studying in Hiroshima in highschool, and I feel that after that I was more qualified than a lot of graduating Japanese majors at my current Canadian university with a well-regarded Japanese program.
If I were her, I'd look into Monbukagakusho (the Japanese Ministry of Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology) scholarships - the best ones provide 5 years of paid schooling at a Japanese university, and it sounds like your daughter is exactly the type of person they accept. The application process is very long (about a year), so it's best to start looking into them early.
If you have any questions about those please memail me - I was on the scholarship for a few months and I know a lot of people who are currently finishing up their Monbukagakusho scholarships at top-tier Japanese universities.
posted by ripley_ at 10:59 AM on April 6, 2011
If I were her, I'd look into Monbukagakusho (the Japanese Ministry of Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology) scholarships - the best ones provide 5 years of paid schooling at a Japanese university, and it sounds like your daughter is exactly the type of person they accept. The application process is very long (about a year), so it's best to start looking into them early.
If you have any questions about those please memail me - I was on the scholarship for a few months and I know a lot of people who are currently finishing up their Monbukagakusho scholarships at top-tier Japanese universities.
posted by ripley_ at 10:59 AM on April 6, 2011
He wanted to be rich! Ha! Well, that's a fine goal. And that means he needs to apply to a school where he'll meet rich people that he can go into business with after graduation. Seriously. So he should NOT apply to wonderful small liberal arts schools, or tradey specialist schools, but colleges with ambitious, well-off children.
About brand name vs less-known schools:
It makes a big difference IF she wants to do one of the things where it makes a difference. For example if she wants to go to grad school, med school, law school, or work in a high-end or national-level capacity (eg working as an executive for a big company, working on Wall Street or for a big bank, big law firm, working in politics, national-level nonprofits or news organizations, etc), then a brand-name school will make a huge difference. Several reasons: (1) hiring managers or admissions officers at grad schools will know the school's reputation is good, (2) alumni networking, for example people who went to Harvard and now have fancy jobs are more likely to give a hand up to a new Harvard grad than someone from No-name U, and (3) the friends she makes in college will be "going places"/ambitious, seeking those national-level jobs and grad school and whatnot. Note that some of the tippy-top small colleges are brand-name schools (Amherst, Williams, Swarthmore, work your way down the top 20 or 30 of the US News rankings), even if you've never heard of them - especially in the northeast (eg for getting jobs in DC, New York, Boston), they have extensive alumni networks and overwhelmingly the students that go there are rich, ambitious and well-connected people.
But if she wants to do more regional-level stuff, a regionally-known school can be a better choice and cheaper. Regionally-known schools have alumni networks in the area, her friends at school will be sticking around the area, etc. If she wants to be a high school teacher or translator or whatever for a local company in your area, it may be a very smart choice to pick the cheaper regional/no-name school rather than the expensive brand-name school.
As to expense, the point made above is excellent:
If she's a very good student, with a unique academic history (Japanese) and is a first-generation college student, she will be an attractive candidate for certain private colleges, and many of them have generous financial aid packages. It could possibly end up being free or cheaper than a state school for her to go to a private place if she can find the right one - she could possibly get a "full ride" (that is, the college would pay for everything and it would be free for you), or at least significant financial aid.
Do not look at the price of schools in your first round of narrowing your choices (write it down, but don't be intimidated). Assuming that your family is middle or lower income, it's likely that she will not pay the "sticker price" for a private college, if you can do diligent work to find scholarships and grants from the school or external sources (that is sources outside the school, such as the government or nonprofit groups).
posted by LobsterMitten at 2:24 PM on April 6, 2011
About brand name vs less-known schools:
It makes a big difference IF she wants to do one of the things where it makes a difference. For example if she wants to go to grad school, med school, law school, or work in a high-end or national-level capacity (eg working as an executive for a big company, working on Wall Street or for a big bank, big law firm, working in politics, national-level nonprofits or news organizations, etc), then a brand-name school will make a huge difference. Several reasons: (1) hiring managers or admissions officers at grad schools will know the school's reputation is good, (2) alumni networking, for example people who went to Harvard and now have fancy jobs are more likely to give a hand up to a new Harvard grad than someone from No-name U, and (3) the friends she makes in college will be "going places"/ambitious, seeking those national-level jobs and grad school and whatnot. Note that some of the tippy-top small colleges are brand-name schools (Amherst, Williams, Swarthmore, work your way down the top 20 or 30 of the US News rankings), even if you've never heard of them - especially in the northeast (eg for getting jobs in DC, New York, Boston), they have extensive alumni networks and overwhelmingly the students that go there are rich, ambitious and well-connected people.
But if she wants to do more regional-level stuff, a regionally-known school can be a better choice and cheaper. Regionally-known schools have alumni networks in the area, her friends at school will be sticking around the area, etc. If she wants to be a high school teacher or translator or whatever for a local company in your area, it may be a very smart choice to pick the cheaper regional/no-name school rather than the expensive brand-name school.
As to expense, the point made above is excellent:
If she's a very good student, with a unique academic history (Japanese) and is a first-generation college student, she will be an attractive candidate for certain private colleges, and many of them have generous financial aid packages. It could possibly end up being free or cheaper than a state school for her to go to a private place if she can find the right one - she could possibly get a "full ride" (that is, the college would pay for everything and it would be free for you), or at least significant financial aid.
Do not look at the price of schools in your first round of narrowing your choices (write it down, but don't be intimidated). Assuming that your family is middle or lower income, it's likely that she will not pay the "sticker price" for a private college, if you can do diligent work to find scholarships and grants from the school or external sources (that is sources outside the school, such as the government or nonprofit groups).
posted by LobsterMitten at 2:24 PM on April 6, 2011
A few more thoughts:
Someone above suggested applying to 8 or more schools, and pointed out that the applications can cost $100 or more per school. This is true. The reason to apply to many schools is to increase the chance of getting a great financial aid package. You will want to talk this over with the guidance counselor, to see if they have more concrete advice about your family's particular situation.
Some top private schools have in recent years committed to a policy that is: "we review applications without looking at whether students can pay." [that is "need-blind admissions"] Some have said: "If we admit you, we will make up the entire difference between what your family can pay (which is determined by the FAFSA form) and what it costs to come here." Some have less generous policies, but still give a lot of financial aid. As you get deeper into this you'll learn about the different forms of aid - scholarships, grants, loans, and what strings are attached to those when they come from different sources. (And of course ask here again, as you come to specific questions)
Of course, the rich colleges (the ones with large endowments that can afford to give the best financial aid) get a ton of applications from people who have perfect GPAs and SATs and whatever else - the colleges have the pick of the litter, the competition is very tough. But these schools also want a diverse group of students - so they don't want to fill up the whole class with the perfect prep school kids whose parents are both lawyers who live outside of New York. Every deviation from that norm is a point in your daughter's favor - being a first generation college student can be a real boost in that sort of admissions process. (The flip side is that if she is looking at a very large state school with more first generation students, it will not be much of a boost since it is more common there.)
Example: At the small college where I teach, every fall the director of admissions comes into the opening-day faculty meeting and gives us a speech telling us about the incoming class. We hear statistics about where the students are from (geographic diversity is big!), their class rank in high school and their SAT scores, etc. But mostly she tells stories from their admissions essays and from getting to know the students during the admissions process -- stories about kids of immigrants who have led incredibly hard lives, coming from war-torn countries in Africa etc; stories about kids who started service organizations in high school; stories about rehabbing from car crash injuries; running a small business; being part of a touring music group; finding a passion for theater design; stories about growing up as a military brat moving around the world; and stories about first generation college students and how their family is pulling together to help them make it to school. (I picture her opening up a student's application and saying "wow, this one will sound great in the opening-day speech! let this kid in!")
posted by LobsterMitten at 9:59 PM on April 6, 2011
Someone above suggested applying to 8 or more schools, and pointed out that the applications can cost $100 or more per school. This is true. The reason to apply to many schools is to increase the chance of getting a great financial aid package. You will want to talk this over with the guidance counselor, to see if they have more concrete advice about your family's particular situation.
Some top private schools have in recent years committed to a policy that is: "we review applications without looking at whether students can pay." [that is "need-blind admissions"] Some have said: "If we admit you, we will make up the entire difference between what your family can pay (which is determined by the FAFSA form) and what it costs to come here." Some have less generous policies, but still give a lot of financial aid. As you get deeper into this you'll learn about the different forms of aid - scholarships, grants, loans, and what strings are attached to those when they come from different sources. (And of course ask here again, as you come to specific questions)
Of course, the rich colleges (the ones with large endowments that can afford to give the best financial aid) get a ton of applications from people who have perfect GPAs and SATs and whatever else - the colleges have the pick of the litter, the competition is very tough. But these schools also want a diverse group of students - so they don't want to fill up the whole class with the perfect prep school kids whose parents are both lawyers who live outside of New York. Every deviation from that norm is a point in your daughter's favor - being a first generation college student can be a real boost in that sort of admissions process. (The flip side is that if she is looking at a very large state school with more first generation students, it will not be much of a boost since it is more common there.)
Example: At the small college where I teach, every fall the director of admissions comes into the opening-day faculty meeting and gives us a speech telling us about the incoming class. We hear statistics about where the students are from (geographic diversity is big!), their class rank in high school and their SAT scores, etc. But mostly she tells stories from their admissions essays and from getting to know the students during the admissions process -- stories about kids of immigrants who have led incredibly hard lives, coming from war-torn countries in Africa etc; stories about kids who started service organizations in high school; stories about rehabbing from car crash injuries; running a small business; being part of a touring music group; finding a passion for theater design; stories about growing up as a military brat moving around the world; and stories about first generation college students and how their family is pulling together to help them make it to school. (I picture her opening up a student's application and saying "wow, this one will sound great in the opening-day speech! let this kid in!")
posted by LobsterMitten at 9:59 PM on April 6, 2011
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In general, I think it is important to find a school that offers what your daughter is interested in, but also be realistic about the fact that few high school juniors truly know what they want to do with their lives or even what they want to major in in college. A lot of people change their majors at some point. So I recommend not betting the farm on the Japanese program -- find a school that has a good Japanese program but also has many other strong programs, so when/if she changes her mind, she can explore other things without having to transfer.
posted by sharding at 8:50 PM on April 5, 2011 [1 favorite]