Employment lawyer in Buffalo?
March 3, 2011 2:11 PM   Subscribe

This is another AmeriCorps question. For the second time since moving to a new city to do a year with AmeriCorps, my supervisor has asked me to be removed from my VISTA site. My actions are not grounds for termination. It's more that the supervisors just don't like me. I'm now waiting to see if they can find a new place where I can finish my term of service. I'm curious to know if anyone has any experience with this sort of thing.

Clearly this is embarrassing and a little heartbreaking. But beyond that, do I have any recourse? The thing about AmeriCorps gigs is that you sign a contract to serve for a year. The grounds for termination are specific and, as I said, I haven't done anything to warrant termination. But I'm not wanted. Both sites that accepted/hired me have subsequently said that they couldn't stand to have me around for another day. Makes me feel great. I'm considering resigning, though I only have 3 more months before I'm finished. The problem is that the big perk of service, the education award, would be lost if I resign. The award is prorated under special circumstances such as illness or something extreme that makes it impossible for the VISTA to complete the year. The thing that is making it impossible for me to finish is the fact that I'm not likable. I say that slightly jokingly but it's basically true. So I need advice and possibly a lawyer. Anyone know an employment attorney in
Buffalo, NY? I am a lawyer myself but this does not seem like a situation where it would be wise to represent myself.
posted by Ventre Mou to Work & Money (27 answers total) 8 users marked this as a favorite
 
You say ...

My actions are not grounds for termination.

and

Both sites that accepted/hired me have subsequently said that they couldn't stand to have me around for another day.

Can you give a little more information about what (actions, interactions, aspects of your personality or dealings with others) led them to terminate you? A little more info may help us advise on what your options are.
posted by jayder at 2:14 PM on March 3, 2011


The OP posted an earlier question about a similar topic and had this to say about what happened before.
posted by lhall at 2:17 PM on March 3, 2011


Response by poster: Ok. Thanks jayder. So, I have a contract with AmeriCorps. My contract with AmeriCorps can be terminated if I do something really bad--lie, steal, hurt someone, do something "unprofessional". I have not done any of these things so my contract with AmeriCorps remains enforceable by me. They continue to pay me for my service. But the little nonprofits where I have been placed do not want me. AmeriCorps has relationships with partners who accept AC volunteers to help out in their offices. My supervisors in these offices have decided they didn't want me so AC pulled me. But AC still has a contract with me. Is that clear? The supervisors have disliked me because I am defensive or do not show the sort of respect for their authority that they want. I have tried to be submissive but I think it comes across as contemptuous. But the reason I was given for being removed from the most recent site was that I did not show the proper respect for the organizational hierarchy, though there was no big incident just things like telling my supervisor I was leaving for lunch rather than asking or telling her I was leaving early because I felt sick etc.
posted by Ventre Mou at 2:26 PM on March 3, 2011


Talk to your state Americorps leader, or whomever is assigned to represent you (not just your project leader -- go to the actual NCCC employee). Tell them your concerns, see what arrangements can be made.

I would encourage you to consider that this second termination may have something, no matter how little, to do with your character and workplace demeanor.
posted by Think_Long at 2:30 PM on March 3, 2011 [2 favorites]


There is an Italian proverb that says something like 'if one person calls you a jackass, don't pay any attention. If two people call you a jackass, don't pay any attention. If three people call you a jackass, buy yourself a saddle." You are having problems everywhere you go. You seriously need to look within for the answer.

If and when you take that preference (in the other thread you said that it gives you an advantage in applying for other Federal jobs which I imagine works something like a Veteran's preference, you'll get 10 points added to your score which means you are guaranteed to make the list and get an interview) you'll find that every Federal agency is exactly like AmeriCorps.
posted by fixedgear at 2:34 PM on March 3, 2011 [16 favorites]


no big incident just things like telling my supervisor I was leaving for lunch rather than asking or telling her I was leaving early because I felt sick etc.

These are not "big" incidents but they seem to be ongoing ones. It is possible that the issue is less that you are not likeable and more than you do not do well in structured or authoritarian environments. It isn't about being submissive; it's about being respectful of people's job titles and learning to work within a system even if the system is really, really petty and stupid.

FWIW having to ask "is it OK if I take lunch now?" every day would make me fucking insane, but then I didn't sign up to be placed for a year in an environment I couldn't first vet.
posted by DarlingBri at 2:42 PM on March 3, 2011 [4 favorites]


If you're having trouble with the positions you've taken because you can't hide the fact that you feel much more qualified than your co-workers (based on what you said in your other question), you might consider asking to take a position that doesn't have anything to do with what you have studied-- like tutoring kids or something. That might get you past your ego into a place where you could peacefully finish out your three months, collect your ed. award and preferential treatment for govt jobs, and get out.

I've done Americorps. It is a huge bureaucracy. You have to make it work for you. There is a fair amount of flexibility in pro-rated awards, finishing out service hours somewhere else, etc. But it's a case by case basis, and from reading your last question, it sounds like you've alienated a lot of the people that might help you in this situation. If now you need to ask for help, be humble. Be humble both because you're asking them for a pretty big favor (to find you a third placement) and because they're going to be a lot more likely to help you if you're humble.
posted by geegollygosh at 2:47 PM on March 3, 2011 [3 favorites]


OP, I've worked in the nonprofit sector for a long time, and I've interviewed and met many people who had less than positive experiences with AmeriCorps. While everyone benefits from learning to "read" people, nonprofits can be run by really strange people. They take AmeriCorps volunteers because they get you for free, essentially. There is a reason why really good charities don't need AmeriCorps folks.

Quit the program and forget about it. There are a lot of really crazy people who take advantage of the supposed "relaxed" nonprofit environment as a means of hiring people without skills and professionalism, but are basically people they want to be friends with. (I freelanced at one that was essentially funded by the Exec Director's very rich and well-connected parents, and they didn't hire one girl with impeccable credentials and experience because she had blonde hair and they kept calling her a Stepfordite).
posted by anniecat at 2:52 PM on March 3, 2011 [1 favorite]


I'm sorry that you're having such a rough year and I really hope things get better for you.

After reading your comments here and on your previous question it occurred to me that your experience sounds somewhat like my own... when I was in AmeriCorps, I got written up for a lot of the same things your supervisors have cited. I didn’t get removed from my site, but I could have.

In hindsight, I realize that I acted the way I did because I was pretty seriously depressed. At the time, my thinking was basically, “Obviously everybody hates and is trying to hurt me and I suck at everything... otherwise why would I feel so awful?” So that made me defensively insubordinate at work. Once I started taking an antidepressant and found a therapist I really clicked with, my perspective totally changed-- and I started getting along much better with supervisors and coworkers.

So, I really encourage you to talk to a psychiatrist about what’s been going on at work and see if they can find any clinical causes behind it.

It’s great that AmeriCorps is willing to work with you to find another placement. Whether your next job is with AmeriCorps or with another employer, try to consider it a fresh start and an opportunity to try a different approach to your workplace interactions.

Whether it’s fair or unfair, it seems that your current approach isn’t being well received. It also sounds like you know where some of the issues are--so you know what people want you to do differently. Sure, maybe you don’t agree with them or want to do the things they think you should do. But you have to ask yourself: which is worse, playing by their rules, or going through another termination?

It’s hard to do things someone else’s way, especially when that comes with a lot of negative emotions for you. When I was working on changing my work behavior, I found journaling really helpful-- every time I had to bite my tongue or do something I hated, I’d down what I wish I’d said, or why I thought the situation was unfair. Having an outlet for those feelings really helped. It’s also helpful to focus on taking it one day at a time. Every morning, make it your goal to just play by the rules until the end of the day. Then, after work, take a minute to review all the things you did well that day.

Again, I truly do hope your situation turns around.
posted by Sifleandollie at 3:11 PM on March 3, 2011 [3 favorites]


Response by poster: Hi liketitanic. Turned out that it did not rise to the legal definition of "unprofessional". Support staff used that word but it was not accurate in terms of the legal grounds for termination. My contract can't be terminated based on anything I've done.
posted by Ventre Mou at 3:28 PM on March 3, 2011


I may be wrong: but you aren't being terminated, you are being reassigned, no?
posted by teragram at 3:32 PM on March 3, 2011


Response by poster: liketantic: yeah that's a good idea, though AC staff is currently trying to find me a spot where I can finish. I think contacting my rep at this point might disrupt the efforts that the support people are making on my behalf. I don't think my old sites can be compelled to take me back and, in the meantime, I don't want to piss AC off so that they stop trying to help me find a place to finish my term. Does that make sense? Or do you think my rep might have ideas for finding a new site... That seems unlikely.

teragram: yes. I'm being reassigned, not terminated. But can only e reassigned if there's an open place for me.
posted by Ventre Mou at 3:40 PM on March 3, 2011


Response by poster: liketantic: Actually...ok. I'll contact my state Rep. Not sure why that scares me. I'll do it tomorrow.
posted by Ventre Mou at 3:55 PM on March 3, 2011


Having read this question and the other, related question, here's my advice:

(1) It really seems like YOU are the problem (I realize that is not your question, but bear with me and, at the end of this paragraph, I will explain why this matters). Sorry, that's just the impression that is given. You said your supervisors found you "defensive"; and I see that in your question. There's a very odd tone to your questions that it's hard to put a finger on, but the overall impression is that you would be an exasperating person to work with. I do not mean that to attack you, but it seems that you really quibble over things in a way that would make it quite difficult to supervise you: for example, somewhere above you say your behavior does not rise to the "legal definition" of unprofessional. I don't think that there is a legal definition of unprofessional, and it appears that you are trying to take refuge under technicalities, when it seems quite likely that your colleagues find you very difficult to work with. Why this matters: Employment lawyers don't like representing people who are a problem in their workplace. They like dealing with people who are clearly the injured/harmed party. The overall tone of your questions suggests that you are a difficult person, would make a difficult client, and employment attorneys would turn down your case in a heartbeat, regardless of any technical legal merit the case may have.

(2) I'm puzzled by the fact that you are a licensed attorney and in the Americorps program. Are there jobs for licensed attorneys in Americorps? It seems possible that, if you are not actually practicing law in your Americorps assignments, you may unknowingly exude a sense of overqualification or superiority, perhaps lording your status as an attorney over your supervisors in a way that is off-putting and offensive. Perhaps Americorps simply is not a good fit for you, and rather than waging a legal battle against Americorps that is likely to be fairly fruitless and frustrating, you would be best off trying to find a job that is better suited to you, and simply write this off as a lesson learned.
posted by jayder at 4:19 PM on March 3, 2011 [5 favorites]


Response by poster: Yes jayder, I am the problem. I lack interpersonal skills. I'm like the Eugene Levy character in the movie Splash who is so desperate for respect and success that he does stupid, injurious things. But here I am. A person in the world who has to survive. In therapy. Tried meds and they didn't work. So there's all this mental garbage i have to work through. Thing is: I have to get a job and get by to facilitate the opportunity to work through it. Can't really do it if I'm broke and homeless and unemployable. Part of the reason I'm in a job that I'm overaualified for is because I have difficulty getting along in structured work environments, yet I lack the resources to start my own business. So I'm here to ask about how to protect the rights of an annoying, not particularly likable person who is in a jam. Even Eugene Levy needs an advocate.
posted by Ventre Mou at 4:40 PM on March 3, 2011 [2 favorites]


Hey, Ventre Mou. It sounds like you're starting to use your problem-solving brain to solve life problems, including coming here, including doing AmeriCorps, including therapy. Good for you. I hope nobody else feels the need to point out that you might be the common factor here; it seems you are working on your problems. It sounds like things are hard right now. Genuinely hard, in a way that sometimes breaks people. You're not giving up, so good for you.
posted by amtho at 5:13 PM on March 3, 2011 [11 favorites]


If I understand the situation correctly, you have 3 more months to complete your contract, at this point the only person who can break the contract is you and they are working to reassign you. Assuming this is accurate, If you are accruing pay and credit while you wait for another assignment, why not just wait? If it takes a few weeks or even a month, there you go, another 1/3 of your remaining time gone. If they do find another place, it will still take weeks if not months for you to piss them off so much they off you. All you have to do for the next 3 months to get your education award and 10 points credit is learn to respond only and when responding to say either "Yes, sir" "Yes ma'am" or "No, sir" or "No ma'am". Hang in there and suck it up. I think you are smart enough to act dumb and do it.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 5:37 PM on March 3, 2011 [7 favorites]


HI Ventre-
I too have been unlikable. People have said they think I am arrogant. That seems so strange because inside I feel so inferior. I think our problem is we are taught likable people are confident and so in a defensive attitude, trying to protect our vulnerable inner self, we try to act sure of ourselves. We know we are as intelligent as others... those social skills can be learned.
And similarly I have desperately wanted to be liked. Lately I have begun to relax because I see the harder I try the worse I screw up, and there is no way I can make them like me, so I might as well be myself.
posted by srbrunson at 5:43 PM on March 3, 2011 [2 favorites]


What will contacting your representative do outside of antagonize those interacting with you in the program even more? They're working on reassigning you, on the outside chance that there's no position open (unlikely in AC) you'll almost certainly qualify for a prorated education award.

Understand that your immediate decision to take the nuclear option when it may not be warranted yet is part of what sets other people on edge. It is like the neighbor who hears a party next door, and instead of asking them to turn the music down calls the cops and submits a complaint to the condo board.
posted by Anonymous at 6:10 PM on March 3, 2011


Response by poster: schroedinger: Yeah. I started drafting an email to my rep and then didn't really know what to ask since what I really want right now is the opportunity to finish. I decided against sending now. Thanks for trying to identify where/how I go wrong and offend people.
posted by Ventre Mou at 6:21 PM on March 3, 2011


Just sit tight and wait for reassignment!

Non-profits have notoriously difficult work environments. Just because you don't fit in there, doesn't mean you are unlikable or unemployable generally, no matter what you are feeling right now.

I know from personal experience that a personality which doesn't fit in most places can make you a STAR in the right environment. It sounds like you haven't found your niche yet, that peculiar set of requirements which will put your talents to the best use. Keep looking forward.

Stick out the three months any way you can.

In the meantime, rethink the roles, environments, and types of co-workers you will succeed with. Make concrete lists of these traits and qualities. Three months will go by quickly. Be prepared with a plan. This americorps thing really doesn't matter in the long run. It's just a means to an end, so don't let it defeat you.
posted by jbenben at 8:37 PM on March 3, 2011 [1 favorite]


AC staff is currently trying to find me a spot where I can finish.

Ok, so, don't overthink this. Go to the next spot you're sent to, do your best to make friends with everyone in the office, and make it your top priority to make everyone like you. Make accomplishing your actual work goals a distant second priority. Keep your mouth shut a lot. Listen a lot. Say nothing you don't absolutely have to say. Smile a lot. Give people little presents. Show interest in their lives. Read Dale Carnegie - his stuff works.

Take a good look at yourself in the mirror. You're already aware of a lot of bad stuff about you. There's a lot of good stuff too or you couldn't have finished law school. Be aware of that stuff too. Forgive yourself for not making it at the last two places. You learned something at each one.

Forge ahead bravely. As my grandfather used to remind me, it's only the first hundred years that are tough - after that it's all downhill.
posted by Protocols of the Elders of Sockpuppetry at 10:12 PM on March 3, 2011 [7 favorites]


I don't know the first thing about AmeriCorps, but it appears that you are getting good advice on that front here. I do know a fair amount about employment attorneys and if you decide at some point that you need one, the best resource is the National Employment Lawyers Association whose website has a handy find a lawyer in your area function.
posted by Lame_username at 5:31 AM on March 4, 2011


Response by poster: Yes. Liketitantic, I will definitely contact my Rep and maybe a lawyer if, as the State office told me at first, I have to forfeit my education award if I don't find a place to be transferred to. After I was told that, I was given different, more helpful info which is that they will try to help me find a place to finish. Thank you for your advice. Sorry for confusion.
posted by Ventre Mou at 10:08 AM on March 4, 2011


Just read your second post... it was a total mercy that you got away from that boss. Three months longer there would have been horrible. No wonder you would just tell your her that you were leaving for lunch. It was an escape.
It would be so good for you to be in a community of love and acceptance for a while. I do not believe that you are not likeable. It is just that you have been a victim so long that you have that mentality. You are smart or you would not have finished law school. You have a sense of humor or you wouldn't have joked about a handsome man headed down the aisle in the last post.
In law they talk about "the reasonable man." There is a parent, child and adult in every person (TA). The child in you is reacting to the pain of the past. Now choose to have the adult/parent (aka reasonable woman) be in charge. You are a human being made in the image of God and of worth. Just as good as anyone else.
My ex used to say of others-"they put their pants on just like everyone else."
This is an extremely difficult time. Three months will go by quickly and all this will be put behind you and you will be eligible for a lovely government job with great benefits and you will probably be a real tribute to those who are less fortunate and make a real difference in the world.
posted by srbrunson at 5:18 PM on March 4, 2011


Response by poster: Hi there friends on AskMe. It's me, Ventre Mou. I wanted to update you and others who may look at this thread about what has happened with my transfer. AC first offered me a position in their warehouse, doing inventory and stuff for building supplies for nonprofits. I told them thank you and I'd like to continue looking for something that uses my law degree a little more. I started applying for positions outside of NY. Then AC found a spot for me in the legal department of a small nonprofit. Turns out I know the attorney there and we like each other. So I'll be finishing my year in a really great spot doing work that uses some of my skills. Happy ending. Thank you all for your help. I'll likely be back here because I struggle with not trusting people and that's really limiting. So... 'til soon and thank you.
posted by Ventre Mou at 4:39 AM on March 9, 2011 [3 favorites]


Congratulations! That is wonderful news! It sounds like you did a great job advocating for yourself.
posted by prefpara at 11:31 AM on March 9, 2011 [2 favorites]


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