He ain't heavy, he's my...coffee can?
January 23, 2011 6:27 AM Subscribe
What is the most dense material, commonly available in the average US city, with which one could fill an average metal coffee can for, say, under $20?
and by average metal coffee can, I mean the standard 39oz size metal can, like this.
The $20 limit is somewhat arbitrary but nevertheless important - because while filling the can with solid gold is going to make it massive as a mofo, it's not feasible for the average person to actually accomplish.
and by average metal coffee can, I mean the standard 39oz size metal can, like this.
The $20 limit is somewhat arbitrary but nevertheless important - because while filling the can with solid gold is going to make it massive as a mofo, it's not feasible for the average person to actually accomplish.
You can do one better and melt lead shot in your oven to fill the cans with liquid lead. Removes all the empty space between shot pellets.
posted by Loto at 6:38 AM on January 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Loto at 6:38 AM on January 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
You can do one better and melt lead shot in your oven to fill the cans with liquid lead.
Unless you know exactly what you are doing, have all the equipment you need, a high-ventilated workshop, proper protective gear, etc... this may not be the best plan. Pouring twenty pounds or so of 700 F liquid lead, with a high vapour hazard, which can cause third degree burns in an instant, isn't something which can be done on a lazy Saturday as a one-off. It would cost way more than $20 to do this right.
posted by bonehead at 6:51 AM on January 23, 2011 [11 favorites]
Unless you know exactly what you are doing, have all the equipment you need, a high-ventilated workshop, proper protective gear, etc... this may not be the best plan. Pouring twenty pounds or so of 700 F liquid lead, with a high vapour hazard, which can cause third degree burns in an instant, isn't something which can be done on a lazy Saturday as a one-off. It would cost way more than $20 to do this right.
posted by bonehead at 6:51 AM on January 23, 2011 [11 favorites]
Yeah, lead shot is definitely the way to go but I'm not sure you can get that much for $20. The cheapest I was able to find online was a 25 pound bag for $31. Dive shops sell it too, but they seem to want $10 for a 3-pound weight so that's probably too expensive for your budget.
The next best thing would be a bag of playground sand from Home Depot, which would definitely fit your budget but wouldn't weigh as much as lead shot.
posted by Rhomboid at 6:58 AM on January 23, 2011
The next best thing would be a bag of playground sand from Home Depot, which would definitely fit your budget but wouldn't weigh as much as lead shot.
posted by Rhomboid at 6:58 AM on January 23, 2011
Best answer: Lead weighs about 730 pounds/ ft3 or 11.3 kg/liter. About $2/lb over the internets.
Smaller shot means less air in the can, so get bird shot as opposed to buck shot.
Not sure what the capacity of your 39 oz. (by weight) can is, but it looks like it may be about 6" x 8", so I am going to guess about 226 cu/in, or about 90 pounds.
I did not check my math. Seems about right, though.
posted by FauxScot at 7:02 AM on January 23, 2011
Smaller shot means less air in the can, so get bird shot as opposed to buck shot.
Not sure what the capacity of your 39 oz. (by weight) can is, but it looks like it may be about 6" x 8", so I am going to guess about 226 cu/in, or about 90 pounds.
I did not check my math. Seems about right, though.
posted by FauxScot at 7:02 AM on January 23, 2011
Fill the can with lead shot as suggested by others and then add liquid to fill the spaces. Glycerine is pretty dense and you can pick it up cheaply in a drug store - might take a while to find it as it tends to be on the bottom shelf and people don't buy it frequently.
Mercury is awfully heavy, but I don't recommend it for toxicity reasons.
posted by sciencegeek at 7:19 AM on January 23, 2011 [3 favorites]
Mercury is awfully heavy, but I don't recommend it for toxicity reasons.
posted by sciencegeek at 7:19 AM on January 23, 2011 [3 favorites]
If lead is too expensive, you could use cast iron disc weights (weight plates), and fill in the gaps with lead shot. This will be less dense but still quite heavy.
posted by anaelith at 7:20 AM on January 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by anaelith at 7:20 AM on January 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
Unless you know exactly what you are doing, have all the equipment you need, a high-ventilated workshop, proper protective gear, etc... this may not be the best plan.
Do it outside, a few pounds at a time, be reasonably careful, it might not be the worst plan either.
lead shot is definitely the way to go but I'm not sure you can get that much for $20
Used lead wheel weights can be had pretty cheaply at any tire shop or garage.
posted by nicwolff at 7:21 AM on January 23, 2011 [3 favorites]
Do it outside, a few pounds at a time, be reasonably careful, it might not be the worst plan either.
lead shot is definitely the way to go but I'm not sure you can get that much for $20
Used lead wheel weights can be had pretty cheaply at any tire shop or garage.
posted by nicwolff at 7:21 AM on January 23, 2011 [3 favorites]
Best answer: My back-of-the-envelope calculations indicate that a 39 oz coffee can filled with lead shot is probably going to weight in at 45-50 lbs (ideally, if you're able to melt the lead and fill it solid, it would be ~55 lbs). That much lead shot is certainly going to cost you more than $20 (more like $80-90). You might be able to find someplace local to buy scrap lead at a lower price (this recycler offers a $0.45/lb price if you buy more than 50#, e.g.), but that would almost certainly require you have a setup capable of melting lead in order to get it to fit.
Concrete is, of course, much less dense, but also much cheaper. A coffee can filled with concrete should weight about 12 lbs and use a fraction of a $5.00 bag of sacrete. Half a 25-lb bag of lead shot, in comparison, is about $20 worth of material and would weigh about the same, but would take up a smaller portion of the can. (Of course, an additional problem is that you can't just buy half a 25-lb bag of shot--if you're only wanting to do one can, you'd need to buy a smaller volume of shot, which has a poorer price/weight ratio).
posted by SomeTrickPony at 7:22 AM on January 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
Concrete is, of course, much less dense, but also much cheaper. A coffee can filled with concrete should weight about 12 lbs and use a fraction of a $5.00 bag of sacrete. Half a 25-lb bag of lead shot, in comparison, is about $20 worth of material and would weigh about the same, but would take up a smaller portion of the can. (Of course, an additional problem is that you can't just buy half a 25-lb bag of shot--if you're only wanting to do one can, you'd need to buy a smaller volume of shot, which has a poorer price/weight ratio).
posted by SomeTrickPony at 7:22 AM on January 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
Smaller shot means less air in the can, so get bird shot as opposed to buck shot.
Actually, no. Smaller shot means that the gaps between the spheres are smaller, but there are also many more of them. The two effects cancel out, and the proportion of air to lead is pretty much constant regardless of the size of the shot. This means that you can pick whatever size is cheapest, which might save you a few bucks or (if the $20 is a hard limit) gain you a few pounds.
posted by Johnny Assay at 7:36 AM on January 23, 2011 [6 favorites]
Actually, no. Smaller shot means that the gaps between the spheres are smaller, but there are also many more of them. The two effects cancel out, and the proportion of air to lead is pretty much constant regardless of the size of the shot. This means that you can pick whatever size is cheapest, which might save you a few bucks or (if the $20 is a hard limit) gain you a few pounds.
posted by Johnny Assay at 7:36 AM on January 23, 2011 [6 favorites]
lead shot is very similar to wheel weights - you can often get them free from tire places.
posted by ansate at 7:37 AM on January 23, 2011
posted by ansate at 7:37 AM on January 23, 2011
Yeah, packing is independent of object size, in bulk. Spheres pack at 2/3 space efficiency with no edges. The container sides disrupt the packing pattern and reduce that number a bit. If 55lbs is the solid weight of lead, then round lead shot would be about 34-35 lbs.
Gravel /portland cement concrete seems to be the best of the concrete or cement choices. While it would fill the can completely, it's still less than one fifth the density of the lead.
So, use as much lead as you can afford, then fill the remainder with Portland cement.
posted by bonehead at 7:57 AM on January 23, 2011 [3 favorites]
Gravel /portland cement concrete seems to be the best of the concrete or cement choices. While it would fill the can completely, it's still less than one fifth the density of the lead.
So, use as much lead as you can afford, then fill the remainder with Portland cement.
posted by bonehead at 7:57 AM on January 23, 2011 [3 favorites]
Whatever solids you use, filling the rest with a liquid is definitely a good idea. Water, if nothing else. After a little Googling, I was able to determine that honey typically has an even higher density than glycerin, but depending on the ultimate application, that may be have other problems.
posted by ErWenn at 8:10 AM on January 23, 2011
posted by ErWenn at 8:10 AM on January 23, 2011
Ignoring packing effeciency, I calculate that a 39oz can of pennies (.36cc/penny) would weigh about 17.5 lbs (2.5g/penny) and cost you roughly $32.
$20 of pennies weighs about 11lbs and I think would easily fit in the can. This might be more "accessible" than lead shot to you.
Fill the rest of the can with free sand/gravel/dirt.
posted by no1hatchling at 8:18 AM on January 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
$20 of pennies weighs about 11lbs and I think would easily fit in the can. This might be more "accessible" than lead shot to you.
Fill the rest of the can with free sand/gravel/dirt.
posted by no1hatchling at 8:18 AM on January 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
If you're not interested in a pretty can, and you go the lead route of some sort, an outdoor campfire is plenty hot enough. Just get some good coals going and make a space to put the can on stable ground and keep wood/coals piled up around the sides. (also works with pennies)
posted by zengargoyle at 8:19 AM on January 23, 2011
posted by zengargoyle at 8:19 AM on January 23, 2011
Best answer: Concur on the lead shot. I'm not sure what the size of the smallest bird shot is, but you might be able to get BB gun ammo, and it might be smaller?
Try a sporting goods store
If you go here, and click on the little "sort by" icon under density, you'll see the densities of all the elements. (For comparison, the units are grams / cubic centimeter. Water is 1. Think of how much a gallon of milk weighs. Lead would be 11 times heavier.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_elements
Lead seems to be the densest and most available.
Instead of melting the lead (not quite as dangerous as the above implioes, but still a pain and somewhat dangerous), you could mix it with concrete to fill the gaps between the balls, which has a density of 2.3 g/cc3.
For reference, and checking FauxScot's math, I have here a 34.5 ounce coffee can. It is 16cm x 15.5cm, giving a volume of 3000 cc3. Which amounts to about 73 pounds of lead. So yeah, he's pretty much right on.
Depending on availability, you might be able to get other metals easier. If you can get your hands on iron/steel easier, you are talking about 50 pounds.
Googling for metal prices, a random site tells me that your coffee can full of lead would cost $85. $315 for copper, $29,322 for silver, $1.4m for gold and $1.9m for platinum.
So if $20 is really a rough limit, lead will top that. Iron might be cheaper (couldn't find a price?). If it isn't, chunks of granite in concrete might solve the problem.
(Aside- I knew Platinum was dense. But TWICE as dense as lead? Damn.)
posted by gjc at 8:23 AM on January 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
Try a sporting goods store
If you go here, and click on the little "sort by" icon under density, you'll see the densities of all the elements. (For comparison, the units are grams / cubic centimeter. Water is 1. Think of how much a gallon of milk weighs. Lead would be 11 times heavier.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_elements
Lead seems to be the densest and most available.
Instead of melting the lead (not quite as dangerous as the above implioes, but still a pain and somewhat dangerous), you could mix it with concrete to fill the gaps between the balls, which has a density of 2.3 g/cc3.
For reference, and checking FauxScot's math, I have here a 34.5 ounce coffee can. It is 16cm x 15.5cm, giving a volume of 3000 cc3. Which amounts to about 73 pounds of lead. So yeah, he's pretty much right on.
Depending on availability, you might be able to get other metals easier. If you can get your hands on iron/steel easier, you are talking about 50 pounds.
Googling for metal prices, a random site tells me that your coffee can full of lead would cost $85. $315 for copper, $29,322 for silver, $1.4m for gold and $1.9m for platinum.
So if $20 is really a rough limit, lead will top that. Iron might be cheaper (couldn't find a price?). If it isn't, chunks of granite in concrete might solve the problem.
(Aside- I knew Platinum was dense. But TWICE as dense as lead? Damn.)
posted by gjc at 8:23 AM on January 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
Portland cement has a specific gravity of about 2.1. Honey and glycerine are both well below 2. There are almost no liquids, certainly no commonly available, stable and safe liquids, with sgs higher than cement.
posted by bonehead at 8:24 AM on January 23, 2011
posted by bonehead at 8:24 AM on January 23, 2011
Jesus, pennies. Didn't even think of that. If you can get pennies made before 1982, they weigh more (3.11g) , since they were made of mostly copper. Current pennies (2.5g) are copper clad zinc.
posted by gjc at 8:29 AM on January 23, 2011
posted by gjc at 8:29 AM on January 23, 2011
You could fill the can with broken tungsten carbide cutting tools, which you can find at any machine shop. Tungsten carbide is denser than lead (or gold for that matter), and since it is brittle, you could avoid air gaps by breaking it into tiny pieces with a hammer. The scrap price for tungsten carbide (~$10/lb) puts it out of your price range, but you might be able to get deal.
posted by Mark Doner at 9:54 AM on January 23, 2011
posted by Mark Doner at 9:54 AM on January 23, 2011
Loto writes "You can do one better and melt lead shot in your oven to fill the cans with liquid lead"
Lead melts at 630F; most ovens are going to top out at 550F. Do not melt lead inside unless you have a fume hood; the vapours are quite toxic.
Wheel weights from a tire shop would be my go to for something like this. Be aware they are about 3% antimony. Info on melting wheel weights. If you only need one or two cans then I wouldn't melt, I'd instead use a body rasp to shred the weights and then use a rod and a heavy hammer to pack them into the can tight. Using this method you will achieve much higher packing densities than with spheres without having to deal with lead at 650F and the fumes it gives off. It'll also allow you to remove the steel clip.
posted by Mitheral at 10:08 AM on January 23, 2011
Lead melts at 630F; most ovens are going to top out at 550F. Do not melt lead inside unless you have a fume hood; the vapours are quite toxic.
Wheel weights from a tire shop would be my go to for something like this. Be aware they are about 3% antimony. Info on melting wheel weights. If you only need one or two cans then I wouldn't melt, I'd instead use a body rasp to shred the weights and then use a rod and a heavy hammer to pack them into the can tight. Using this method you will achieve much higher packing densities than with spheres without having to deal with lead at 650F and the fumes it gives off. It'll also allow you to remove the steel clip.
posted by Mitheral at 10:08 AM on January 23, 2011
Unless you manage to get an amazing deal, lead is too expensive. Scrap steel or iron would be reasonable if you can find it in small bits. Mix it up with a thin cement to fill the gaps.
posted by ssg at 10:16 AM on January 23, 2011
posted by ssg at 10:16 AM on January 23, 2011
So, uh, what exactly are you trying to make with this thing?
posted by freakazoid at 12:05 PM on January 23, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by freakazoid at 12:05 PM on January 23, 2011 [3 favorites]
Lead melts at 630F; most ovens are going to top out at 550F
Yeah really -- as one from the age when kids were still allowed to cast lead soldiers as a hobby, I gotta chime in here and say from experience household stoves can't get hot enough to melt lead.
posted by Rash at 12:54 PM on January 23, 2011
Yeah really -- as one from the age when kids were still allowed to cast lead soldiers as a hobby, I gotta chime in here and say from experience household stoves can't get hot enough to melt lead.
posted by Rash at 12:54 PM on January 23, 2011
But thinking back on materials I've used for said hobby, for really cheap lead just look down, outside -- an industrious lad scouring the streets could gather up enough dropped wheel-balancing weights to fill your coffee can for free.
posted by Rash at 12:57 PM on January 23, 2011
posted by Rash at 12:57 PM on January 23, 2011
Not the densest, but cheap(free) and available anywhere - playground sand or just dirt or sand. Leveling sand might come in a bit heavier but a coffee can would probably weigh in at 25 lbs or so.
posted by emjay at 4:51 PM on January 23, 2011
posted by emjay at 4:51 PM on January 23, 2011
If you fill it it with something that has space between the particles (lead shot, say), I'd then fill the spaces between the pellets with a fine powder- sugar or salt or sand, and then fill the spaces between the powder granules with liquid, for maximum weight.
You know, like that analogy for a balanced life using a jar filled with golf balls.
posted by pseudostrabismus at 6:22 PM on January 23, 2011
You know, like that analogy for a balanced life using a jar filled with golf balls.
posted by pseudostrabismus at 6:22 PM on January 23, 2011
I dunno, I melted the typical lead/tin/bismuth white metal on the kitchen stove to cast toy soldiers lots of times -- without a fume hood, or even the stove exhaust fan -- and I am perfectly fine today. Perfectly fine today. I am ferpectly tine foday. I am a ferkle today spilne. Hmm, hmm, hmm... Hello. Who are you? Hey, a toy soldier!
posted by wenestvedt at 1:10 PM on January 24, 2011
posted by wenestvedt at 1:10 PM on January 24, 2011
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