Confronting Recruiting Agency About Shady Practices
January 7, 2011 1:24 PM Subscribe
I applied to an ad for a contract position with an organization in my city that I've wanting to learn more about. So far I've had one positive phone interview with the project manager, but the more I deal with the recruiter, the more I'm concerned about the firm using deceptive methods. Is it worth it to call up the headquarters of this firm to voice my concerns?
I'm one of those folks laid off during the downturn and trying to hustle for a new job. One of the tactics (besides networking) I've been using is trying to find a short term/contract position, specifically with organizations that would be a good match for my skills and professional interests/goals.
About a month ago, my RSS feed for local employment ads turned up a contract with an organization in my town/state that would be awesome to get inside. I applied to recruiter listed and went through two phone interviews, plus revising my resume to be more appropriate to the client requirements.
Monday I had a phone interview with the Project Manager that went really well and on Tuesday, the recruiter called me with feedback. They liked me, it was positive, but there also wasn't any decision about having me come in for an in-person meeting. In the meanwhile, they wanted a list of the organizations I'd worked for in the past eight years. Good and fine because the client is an agency with a certain level of security concerns and you need to go through a background check/clearance to be cleared to work there.
The background check is where we run into trouble. My last two employers were private sector firms who have pretty strict rules in terms of references. They won't allow managers to speak to references for former employees, all they can do is confirm that you worked there and the dates. My last employer laid me off so the terms of my severance package was "we don't say anything about you and you don't say anything about us." Plus even though it was a small company and we were all friends, my former colleagues have been MIA since the layoff - I'm still socially friendly with the manager who did my layoff (he's the father of two good friends) and word is they feel super guilty and are avoiding me.
I gave the recruiter my employment history information and he said a colleague would be doing the checks to confirm my history. This is the point where things start to get weird. First thing Wednesday I get a phone call from the person doing the reference check and it was a difficult conversation. He called a couple people, who all said good things. But he called my last firm and was told simply that they could only confirm my employment dates. He starts giving me the hard sell about how I absolutely need a reference from this firm confirming the type of work I did and a rating because that information would best sell me to their client. Now I understand that they want to provide proof to the client that I've done that specific type of work and done it well. But he's been told point blank that their policy is only to confirm. And since I can't even get any of my former work friends to return my phone calls about going to lunch/catching up, it's doubtful I can get any of them to do an off the record reference. I did some volunteering recently for a business association trade event and the leads for my team both said they'd be a reference for me, so I tell him that he should be calling those two people, especially because I had just spoken with both of them about being references for this organization. He keeps pressing me that I need to "convince" my former managers to provide a reference, basically asking them to go against the terms of the severance package and company policy. My response was that I was sorry, but I wasn't going to ask somebody (especially the father of two good friends) to go against their employer's wishes and potentially cause them trouble. And that I had colleagues/vendors who'd be happy to provide references but if it was managers only, then he'd need to use his best judgement.
90 minutes later I get another call, this time from the recruiter who's highly agitated and stating that we need to have a three way conference call with the colleague doing the calling. They then proceed to both start talking over each other about calling my former firm and how they won't confirm anything and how the other people I have as references can't confirm that I did a specific type of technical work et cetera. They both keep yelling/berating at me and I finally tell them both (politely as I can) that they need to both stop talking so I can talk. And with the recruiter on the line, I go over again with the colleague how we had discussed my work with this organization and how I had two people from there willing to be references and who were expecting to be contacting. Oh and how the client knew I'd worked with this other group and that was a positive because they also belonged. I then (as politely as possible) direct this person to contact both of these people and he bows out of the call. Which leaves me again with the recruiter, who starts in again about how I absolutely need manager references from my last two jobs to confirm that I did this type of work. This is where I start to get suspicious. Because in explaining myself, it's obvious that he doesn't know anything about how firms are skittish about references because of the lawsuit potential, how some companies have policies where you can only verify employment tenure and dates, and that nobody is under any kind of obligation to do a reference for a former employee.
At this point I should mention that in talking to the recruiter, he's obviously Indian and speaks with a fairly heavy to me (e.g doesn't speak/understand the North American dialect of English that I speak) accent and also doesn't seem to pick up on the cultural nuances of a business phone conversation. I was in the Peace Corps and used to teach ESL, so it's giving me flashbacks to working in the field or the training exercises we'd do about cross cultural communication when you're dealing with somebody who's operating from a different set of cultural assumptions. But he'd been calling me from a phone # with a regional area code, so I'd been assuming that he was possibly a recent immigrant to the US or somebody who spends most of their time in an expat community. But both he and the reference checking colleague both come across the phone as not familiar with how colloquial English is spoken in this part of North America, the type of specifical cultural cues for a business phone call/converation, and a pretty well known part of legal business practice. After reading some other threads on here about business recruiters and doing some online research, I figure out that I've sort of been had. The company does have an office in the Bay Area, but also has a call center in India and a pretty strong outsourcing line of work. They're trying to recruit for a position that's literally 10 minutes from my house using a call center in India. It doesn't take too much Googling to find out: a) the recruiter's profile on LinkedIn, yep he's in India and b) that both of the phone #s with regional area codes aren't assigned to their office here, but unlisted cell phone #s.
tl;dr
My New Year's resolution is to do even better with networking as a job search strategy because I've wasted too much time/effort dealing with recruiters. But in talking with a friend who's still working in consulting about what went down, she made the comment that I should call the company's office here in the States to and let them know they are being unethical and that I as a potential consultant to their client feel like I'm being disrespected by the recruiter with the abusive phone call/request. And that trying to pass off an overseas call center as a local recruiting office is completely shady. Because while a recuiting firm doesn't care much about you and I, they are HUGELY concerned about damaging their company's connections.
Is it worth the grief and would it make a difference? I've decided that given some of their behavior, I'd be hesitant about accepting a contract with them anyways. And the firm has a FT opening listed on their website that's probably connected to the project manager I did the phone interview with. My instinct is to just not have anything to do with the recruiting firm anymore, but my friend's comments about confronting them about their behavior has been food for thought. Would it be worth it? Or would it look weird to be applying for a FT gig after a botched attempt to pitch me as a contractor for this other firm?
Also I should thank the previous threads that mention how some "recruiters" are actually overseas and chasing after US contracts. If I hadn't read that, I would've just kept assuming that somebody calling me on a # with a regional area code meant that they were actually local.
I'm one of those folks laid off during the downturn and trying to hustle for a new job. One of the tactics (besides networking) I've been using is trying to find a short term/contract position, specifically with organizations that would be a good match for my skills and professional interests/goals.
About a month ago, my RSS feed for local employment ads turned up a contract with an organization in my town/state that would be awesome to get inside. I applied to recruiter listed and went through two phone interviews, plus revising my resume to be more appropriate to the client requirements.
Monday I had a phone interview with the Project Manager that went really well and on Tuesday, the recruiter called me with feedback. They liked me, it was positive, but there also wasn't any decision about having me come in for an in-person meeting. In the meanwhile, they wanted a list of the organizations I'd worked for in the past eight years. Good and fine because the client is an agency with a certain level of security concerns and you need to go through a background check/clearance to be cleared to work there.
The background check is where we run into trouble. My last two employers were private sector firms who have pretty strict rules in terms of references. They won't allow managers to speak to references for former employees, all they can do is confirm that you worked there and the dates. My last employer laid me off so the terms of my severance package was "we don't say anything about you and you don't say anything about us." Plus even though it was a small company and we were all friends, my former colleagues have been MIA since the layoff - I'm still socially friendly with the manager who did my layoff (he's the father of two good friends) and word is they feel super guilty and are avoiding me.
I gave the recruiter my employment history information and he said a colleague would be doing the checks to confirm my history. This is the point where things start to get weird. First thing Wednesday I get a phone call from the person doing the reference check and it was a difficult conversation. He called a couple people, who all said good things. But he called my last firm and was told simply that they could only confirm my employment dates. He starts giving me the hard sell about how I absolutely need a reference from this firm confirming the type of work I did and a rating because that information would best sell me to their client. Now I understand that they want to provide proof to the client that I've done that specific type of work and done it well. But he's been told point blank that their policy is only to confirm. And since I can't even get any of my former work friends to return my phone calls about going to lunch/catching up, it's doubtful I can get any of them to do an off the record reference. I did some volunteering recently for a business association trade event and the leads for my team both said they'd be a reference for me, so I tell him that he should be calling those two people, especially because I had just spoken with both of them about being references for this organization. He keeps pressing me that I need to "convince" my former managers to provide a reference, basically asking them to go against the terms of the severance package and company policy. My response was that I was sorry, but I wasn't going to ask somebody (especially the father of two good friends) to go against their employer's wishes and potentially cause them trouble. And that I had colleagues/vendors who'd be happy to provide references but if it was managers only, then he'd need to use his best judgement.
90 minutes later I get another call, this time from the recruiter who's highly agitated and stating that we need to have a three way conference call with the colleague doing the calling. They then proceed to both start talking over each other about calling my former firm and how they won't confirm anything and how the other people I have as references can't confirm that I did a specific type of technical work et cetera. They both keep yelling/berating at me and I finally tell them both (politely as I can) that they need to both stop talking so I can talk. And with the recruiter on the line, I go over again with the colleague how we had discussed my work with this organization and how I had two people from there willing to be references and who were expecting to be contacting. Oh and how the client knew I'd worked with this other group and that was a positive because they also belonged. I then (as politely as possible) direct this person to contact both of these people and he bows out of the call. Which leaves me again with the recruiter, who starts in again about how I absolutely need manager references from my last two jobs to confirm that I did this type of work. This is where I start to get suspicious. Because in explaining myself, it's obvious that he doesn't know anything about how firms are skittish about references because of the lawsuit potential, how some companies have policies where you can only verify employment tenure and dates, and that nobody is under any kind of obligation to do a reference for a former employee.
At this point I should mention that in talking to the recruiter, he's obviously Indian and speaks with a fairly heavy to me (e.g doesn't speak/understand the North American dialect of English that I speak) accent and also doesn't seem to pick up on the cultural nuances of a business phone conversation. I was in the Peace Corps and used to teach ESL, so it's giving me flashbacks to working in the field or the training exercises we'd do about cross cultural communication when you're dealing with somebody who's operating from a different set of cultural assumptions. But he'd been calling me from a phone # with a regional area code, so I'd been assuming that he was possibly a recent immigrant to the US or somebody who spends most of their time in an expat community. But both he and the reference checking colleague both come across the phone as not familiar with how colloquial English is spoken in this part of North America, the type of specifical cultural cues for a business phone call/converation, and a pretty well known part of legal business practice. After reading some other threads on here about business recruiters and doing some online research, I figure out that I've sort of been had. The company does have an office in the Bay Area, but also has a call center in India and a pretty strong outsourcing line of work. They're trying to recruit for a position that's literally 10 minutes from my house using a call center in India. It doesn't take too much Googling to find out: a) the recruiter's profile on LinkedIn, yep he's in India and b) that both of the phone #s with regional area codes aren't assigned to their office here, but unlisted cell phone #s.
tl;dr
My New Year's resolution is to do even better with networking as a job search strategy because I've wasted too much time/effort dealing with recruiters. But in talking with a friend who's still working in consulting about what went down, she made the comment that I should call the company's office here in the States to and let them know they are being unethical and that I as a potential consultant to their client feel like I'm being disrespected by the recruiter with the abusive phone call/request. And that trying to pass off an overseas call center as a local recruiting office is completely shady. Because while a recuiting firm doesn't care much about you and I, they are HUGELY concerned about damaging their company's connections.
Is it worth the grief and would it make a difference? I've decided that given some of their behavior, I'd be hesitant about accepting a contract with them anyways. And the firm has a FT opening listed on their website that's probably connected to the project manager I did the phone interview with. My instinct is to just not have anything to do with the recruiting firm anymore, but my friend's comments about confronting them about their behavior has been food for thought. Would it be worth it? Or would it look weird to be applying for a FT gig after a botched attempt to pitch me as a contractor for this other firm?
Also I should thank the previous threads that mention how some "recruiters" are actually overseas and chasing after US contracts. If I hadn't read that, I would've just kept assuming that somebody calling me on a # with a regional area code meant that they were actually local.
You might just work with what you have, even if these recruiters don't know how the system works. You might try explaining that unspecified "lawyer friends" have explained that many companies, especially high-end kinds, won't provide information. First, if they give you a good reference and the new employer hires you but is disappointed, they may be sued by the employer. Second, if they give you a lousy reference, you may sue them. Thus, most corporations with any kind of skilled labor attorney will have a policy of not giving any information, other than to confirm the employment relationship and the dates of employment and separation.
Finally, why sell yourself short? Explain that you provided references to at least two sources that recently worked with you, can verify your skill set, and are willing to speak to the recruiter. Tell them you have no ability to force a business to change its policy, that the other recruiters you've dealt with in the past have all understood this and worked around it.
Last, don't sound too anxious to get the job. If someone is paying a recruiter, other than you, you can bet the company needs you more than you need them and that the recruiter should earn their fee instead of making you do all the work. After all, you're very busy fielding other inquiries who have no such qualms about talking to your provided references...
posted by Hylas at 2:07 PM on January 7, 2011
Finally, why sell yourself short? Explain that you provided references to at least two sources that recently worked with you, can verify your skill set, and are willing to speak to the recruiter. Tell them you have no ability to force a business to change its policy, that the other recruiters you've dealt with in the past have all understood this and worked around it.
Last, don't sound too anxious to get the job. If someone is paying a recruiter, other than you, you can bet the company needs you more than you need them and that the recruiter should earn their fee instead of making you do all the work. After all, you're very busy fielding other inquiries who have no such qualms about talking to your provided references...
posted by Hylas at 2:07 PM on January 7, 2011
Best answer: A few thoughts:
(1)
What looks like a regional number may just be the "point of entry" to the domestic phone system (there must be a technical term for this) of someone using a web-based phone system from wherever. (Enter the phone number into a search engine and see what comes up just for the heck of it.)
(2)
Corporate policy that prohibits employees from dispensing recommendations is, and has been for decades, routine in the US. Recruiters know this. Your former employer confirmed that your claim of employment there was real; this should be enough.
(3)
What you describe are dodgy and highly unprofessional behaviors on the part of the recruiter and his organization. Now, recruiters are, as a whole, fairly dodgy, and this is why they are, whenever possible, to be avoided like the plague. Unfortunately, access to some jobs is restricted and requires dealing with them on occasion. However, you will almost certainly gain absolutely nothing, apart from having your time wasted, in continuing discussions with this party.
(4)
Apply to the full time position through the company's website.
(5)
Did you email a thank you to the Project Manager with whom you did the phone interview? Apart from being appropriate, it might open up an independent line of communication with the potential employer. Once interviews have begun, this -- an independent line of communication -- is not only appropriate but desired. (And does not count as going around the recruiter.)
(6)
Do not call the company and complain about the recruiter. If, in the course of any future conversations with the potential employer, the potential employer asks you about the recruiter, be discreet, diplomatic and very brief in whatever you choose to say about the recruiter's "inefficiencies." Why? Because you do not know who is doing what to whom or why between the potential employer and the recruiting firm. You don't want to risk becoming unnecessarily blackballed by either party.
(7)
It is worth noting that the potential employer hired this firm, and does not seem to be doing a very good job managing its vendor. This reflects on the quality of the potential employer's management and in particular its attitude toward human resources. Forewarned is forearmed.
(8)
I understand that you have been out of work awhile. It sucks. But it is what it is. What is key is learning to cut your losses and move on. This too shall pass.
Good luck!
posted by cool breeze at 2:13 PM on January 7, 2011
(1)
What looks like a regional number may just be the "point of entry" to the domestic phone system (there must be a technical term for this) of someone using a web-based phone system from wherever. (Enter the phone number into a search engine and see what comes up just for the heck of it.)
(2)
Corporate policy that prohibits employees from dispensing recommendations is, and has been for decades, routine in the US. Recruiters know this. Your former employer confirmed that your claim of employment there was real; this should be enough.
(3)
What you describe are dodgy and highly unprofessional behaviors on the part of the recruiter and his organization. Now, recruiters are, as a whole, fairly dodgy, and this is why they are, whenever possible, to be avoided like the plague. Unfortunately, access to some jobs is restricted and requires dealing with them on occasion. However, you will almost certainly gain absolutely nothing, apart from having your time wasted, in continuing discussions with this party.
(4)
Apply to the full time position through the company's website.
(5)
Did you email a thank you to the Project Manager with whom you did the phone interview? Apart from being appropriate, it might open up an independent line of communication with the potential employer. Once interviews have begun, this -- an independent line of communication -- is not only appropriate but desired. (And does not count as going around the recruiter.)
(6)
Do not call the company and complain about the recruiter. If, in the course of any future conversations with the potential employer, the potential employer asks you about the recruiter, be discreet, diplomatic and very brief in whatever you choose to say about the recruiter's "inefficiencies." Why? Because you do not know who is doing what to whom or why between the potential employer and the recruiting firm. You don't want to risk becoming unnecessarily blackballed by either party.
(7)
It is worth noting that the potential employer hired this firm, and does not seem to be doing a very good job managing its vendor. This reflects on the quality of the potential employer's management and in particular its attitude toward human resources. Forewarned is forearmed.
(8)
I understand that you have been out of work awhile. It sucks. But it is what it is. What is key is learning to cut your losses and move on. This too shall pass.
Good luck!
posted by cool breeze at 2:13 PM on January 7, 2011
Welp, I agree with Hylas and cool breeze, and I'm gonna say it looks like you could do with being the adult in the relationship. Tell them in no uncertain terms that nobody else has had a problem with your references, so how could that be a problem? Mind you, this is going to sound like a hard sell because you will do best if you act like you don't need them (despite what they may say and how you might feel). If they drop you or otherwise eliminate contact (i.e. 3 days of radio silence, feel free to lay this deadline out to them), then approach the company independently if the recruiter can't get their shit together. Your time is valuable and you have other people to talk to, does this really require a conference call?
They need you. You're a valuable resource and they want the money from getting the company to hire you. Heck, the company probably wants to hire you but the recruiter is for some reason constrained by this stupid reference thing. Put it all on them. "My old company's policies are not my responsibility and in fact it is common for liability purposes for companies not to release information about former employees. I'm sure this isn't the first time you've had to deal with this, shall we talk again on Wednesday?" Basically you want to tell them to quit bugging you and do their job because you can obviously do the work and the interviewers liked you.
On re-read: 8 years of history?! I suspect they're trying to build their Rolodex and are mad because the close-lipped company won't give them any manager names.
posted by rhizome at 3:46 PM on January 7, 2011
They need you. You're a valuable resource and they want the money from getting the company to hire you. Heck, the company probably wants to hire you but the recruiter is for some reason constrained by this stupid reference thing. Put it all on them. "My old company's policies are not my responsibility and in fact it is common for liability purposes for companies not to release information about former employees. I'm sure this isn't the first time you've had to deal with this, shall we talk again on Wednesday?" Basically you want to tell them to quit bugging you and do their job because you can obviously do the work and the interviewers liked you.
On re-read: 8 years of history?! I suspect they're trying to build their Rolodex and are mad because the close-lipped company won't give them any manager names.
posted by rhizome at 3:46 PM on January 7, 2011
Response by poster: Dudes, thank you so much! After talking to my friend I figured I'd wait on calling them until Monday to have a little more time to think about it. But ya'll make a stronger point about not calling in order to stay above the fray and maintain a positive impression with the potential employer. And all the comments about the legal reasons why people don't provide references anymore (I'm mostly aware about the risk of an individual suing somebody for a bad reference) are points I'll stress if the firm ever calls me back. I kind of doubt that they will given how the last phone call went down. I did act like I wasn't anxious/desperate and told him that if the lack of absolute confirmation/reference from my former employer was deal breaker, well then I was sorry.
Because the PM responded so well during the phone interview, I did look up the mailing address for the firm and sent a hand written thank you note with my business card. And I'll proceed with submitting my application for the FT position and reference that I enjoyed getting to talk to him and learn more about the organization, hence my interest in the position. The suggestion about diplomatically saying that the recruiting firm had "inefficiencies" is pretty brilliant, not to mention true.
Oh and I'd go with saying that somebody calling you from overseas but faking it off of a phone number for your country (I did a reverse look-up and it's either a cell or Google Voice #) qualifies as spoofing. cool breeze's point #8 is also worth paying attention to - I'm mostly interested in getting my foot in the door for that specific industry. But the GlassDoor reviews for this potential employer have been lukewarm and mention an over-reliance on contracting sourced projects.
Anyways, thanks for the input.
posted by gov_moonbeam at 1:53 AM on January 8, 2011
Because the PM responded so well during the phone interview, I did look up the mailing address for the firm and sent a hand written thank you note with my business card. And I'll proceed with submitting my application for the FT position and reference that I enjoyed getting to talk to him and learn more about the organization, hence my interest in the position. The suggestion about diplomatically saying that the recruiting firm had "inefficiencies" is pretty brilliant, not to mention true.
Oh and I'd go with saying that somebody calling you from overseas but faking it off of a phone number for your country (I did a reverse look-up and it's either a cell or Google Voice #) qualifies as spoofing. cool breeze's point #8 is also worth paying attention to - I'm mostly interested in getting my foot in the door for that specific industry. But the GlassDoor reviews for this potential employer have been lukewarm and mention an over-reliance on contracting sourced projects.
Anyways, thanks for the input.
posted by gov_moonbeam at 1:53 AM on January 8, 2011
Response by poster: UPDATE
Recruiter left me a phone message and e-mail on Saturday about how I urgently needed to contact him. After the shenanigans earlier in the week, they could wait until Monday. Also interesting since I suspect it's the firm's overseas call center, I got a hang up call on Sunday with a +82 country code.
First thing this morning, I get another call "Didn't you get my message?!" The client wants to offer me the contract and I get the hard sell about accepting on the spot. I told him that without seeing the contract paperwork for review, I wasn't going to give him a verbal yes. Good and fine. 15 minutes later I get a call back from him and his lead, wanting to know what questions I had and making the comment of "we're trying to expedite the process." I kept calm but pointed out that: a) He's trying to expedite a sale to his client and b) I'd never verbally accept any business offer based on a phone call without reviewing the paperwork first. Sheesh. I'd love to get back to work and a foot in the door at this firm (although as cool breeze points out, this brings up the issue of how good/bad management there is), but I'm not agreeing to anything until I see it in writing.
posted by gov_moonbeam at 9:37 AM on January 10, 2011
Recruiter left me a phone message and e-mail on Saturday about how I urgently needed to contact him. After the shenanigans earlier in the week, they could wait until Monday. Also interesting since I suspect it's the firm's overseas call center, I got a hang up call on Sunday with a +82 country code.
First thing this morning, I get another call "Didn't you get my message?!" The client wants to offer me the contract and I get the hard sell about accepting on the spot. I told him that without seeing the contract paperwork for review, I wasn't going to give him a verbal yes. Good and fine. 15 minutes later I get a call back from him and his lead, wanting to know what questions I had and making the comment of "we're trying to expedite the process." I kept calm but pointed out that: a) He's trying to expedite a sale to his client and b) I'd never verbally accept any business offer based on a phone call without reviewing the paperwork first. Sheesh. I'd love to get back to work and a foot in the door at this firm (although as cool breeze points out, this brings up the issue of how good/bad management there is), but I'm not agreeing to anything until I see it in writing.
posted by gov_moonbeam at 9:37 AM on January 10, 2011
Response by poster: FURTHER UPDATE
Finally dealing with the HR department for the main contracting firm on this project. I had a nice, long conversation with the onsite representative, who thanked me for confirming their suspicion that the recruiting firm passes off some projects to an overseas office in India. She's said that they're essentially masking the original dialing # with a Bay Area area code because some people refuse to work with a firm that outsources abroad.
And that like me, she's also had this particular individual be really aggressive and tone deaf about how you do business in a US context. And that she was the recipient of the reference check and "he got it completely wrong. I just wanted to verify your employment history and instead I got a detailed report of interviews with each location. It was total overkill."
Anyways, I finally feel a whole lot better and she's pulled this particular recruiter off of my project. I won't have to deal with somebody calling me 5 times a day. I can appreciate being proactive and tenacious, but this was starting to feel like dealing with a tout who won't take No (or "Let Me Think About It & Get Back to You") as an answer.
posted by gov_moonbeam at 11:03 PM on January 12, 2011
Finally dealing with the HR department for the main contracting firm on this project. I had a nice, long conversation with the onsite representative, who thanked me for confirming their suspicion that the recruiting firm passes off some projects to an overseas office in India. She's said that they're essentially masking the original dialing # with a Bay Area area code because some people refuse to work with a firm that outsources abroad.
And that like me, she's also had this particular individual be really aggressive and tone deaf about how you do business in a US context. And that she was the recipient of the reference check and "he got it completely wrong. I just wanted to verify your employment history and instead I got a detailed report of interviews with each location. It was total overkill."
Anyways, I finally feel a whole lot better and she's pulled this particular recruiter off of my project. I won't have to deal with somebody calling me 5 times a day. I can appreciate being proactive and tenacious, but this was starting to feel like dealing with a tout who won't take No (or "Let Me Think About It & Get Back to You") as an answer.
posted by gov_moonbeam at 11:03 PM on January 12, 2011
« Older Free or really low cost CPR certification classes... | How much should my fictional hacker charge to... Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Carol Anne at 1:51 PM on January 7, 2011