Do one's political beliefs figure into a top secret security clearance?
December 29, 2010 8:32 PM Subscribe
If I am offered a government job that requires a top secret security clearance what kind of risk am I taking that I won't pass and won't get to keep the job?
I don't have anything to hide (in my opinion), but I have a unique name and an Internet presence showing I protested both Gulf Wars. I am a licensed attorney and have enjoyed a fine two-decade career with the Federal government but that job did not require anything more than a background check. Which I must have passed although no one says anything when you do. Now, I see a new job at another agency I would like to go for. Problem is, I don't know how hard it is to pass a "top secret" clearance or any clearance actually. It seems possible I could find myself in the position of leaving a job that is perfectly fine for one that flunks me (later) on the clearance check because, I don't know, I organized those weekly gatherings at the Liberty Bell almost ten years ago. Does anyone know how this works in practice? I should probably mention that all of my inner circle is in some kind of way on the left side. Green Party, needle exchange, Marxist anthropologist, etc. Would the State Department also consider my continuing comfort with these political views a risk?
I don't have anything to hide (in my opinion), but I have a unique name and an Internet presence showing I protested both Gulf Wars. I am a licensed attorney and have enjoyed a fine two-decade career with the Federal government but that job did not require anything more than a background check. Which I must have passed although no one says anything when you do. Now, I see a new job at another agency I would like to go for. Problem is, I don't know how hard it is to pass a "top secret" clearance or any clearance actually. It seems possible I could find myself in the position of leaving a job that is perfectly fine for one that flunks me (later) on the clearance check because, I don't know, I organized those weekly gatherings at the Liberty Bell almost ten years ago. Does anyone know how this works in practice? I should probably mention that all of my inner circle is in some kind of way on the left side. Green Party, needle exchange, Marxist anthropologist, etc. Would the State Department also consider my continuing comfort with these political views a risk?
What the State Department is mostly worried about is something that can be used to blackmail you. Spend an hour reading the DoD Security Clearance Decisions and you'll have a pretty solid sense of it all.
posted by Jairus at 8:38 PM on December 29, 2010 [7 favorites]
posted by Jairus at 8:38 PM on December 29, 2010 [7 favorites]
Obtaining a clearance shouldn't be especially difficult. You may be required to pass a polygraph interview in addition to submitting forms and consenting to a background investigation. You can take a look here for examples of things that affect the decision to grant or deny a clearance. The process will likely be irritating, time-consuming, and may make you feel that your privacy is being invaded. In my experience, the vast majority of people who apply are eventually successful, some much faster than others.
posted by Nomyte at 8:39 PM on December 29, 2010
posted by Nomyte at 8:39 PM on December 29, 2010
This site lists pretty much every clearance case that's gone to hearing. You can get a good idea of what raises red flags from looking at the cases. However, everyone is different and you really just never know. The federal government works in mysterious ways sometimes.
posted by little light-giver at 8:39 PM on December 29, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by little light-giver at 8:39 PM on December 29, 2010 [1 favorite]
It is not that hard to get a TS clearance. What the investigator is looking for is mostly evidence that you are hiding something that could be used to blackmail you. They don't care that you were a communist in college or that you're gay or that you used to smoke pot - they care if you're trying to keep those things a secret.
Unless your anti-war protests had you allied with enemies of the state, I don't think it's a problem.
posted by thehmsbeagle at 8:41 PM on December 29, 2010
Unless your anti-war protests had you allied with enemies of the state, I don't think it's a problem.
posted by thehmsbeagle at 8:41 PM on December 29, 2010
So long as you've never belonged to an organization advocating the violent overthrow of the U.S. government, and, if/when asked, freely disclose your political/philosophic affiliations (without naming names of persons), I doubt you have much about which to be concerned. There are thousands of ineffectual leftist leaning pseudo-intellectuals working for government wages in Washington, and all about the country. I don't see why your quasi-pinko self should be a problem, if you're honest in answering all the questionnaires and interviews.
posted by paulsc at 8:43 PM on December 29, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by paulsc at 8:43 PM on December 29, 2010 [2 favorites]
In addition to the DoD appeals decisions already posted, here is State's list of guidelines for the clearance process: http://www.state.gov/m/ds/clearances/60321.htm#c
I wouldn't worry about your name showing up with some other guy - the process is pretty in depth and I can't imagine they'd be unable to tell you two apart. My favorite anecdote was when a friend's TS process eventually included them calling her French teacher from high school! They will talk in depth to some of the people you list, but they will also ask those people for other people!
And, as others have mentioned, it can take a long time. For Foreign Service jobs at State, they say it usually takes 45-90 days, but can take less or much longer (my friend's TS from Treasury took about 9 months... and she was only a couple years out of college and has never been overseas)
posted by alaijmw at 8:53 PM on December 29, 2010
I wouldn't worry about your name showing up with some other guy - the process is pretty in depth and I can't imagine they'd be unable to tell you two apart. My favorite anecdote was when a friend's TS process eventually included them calling her French teacher from high school! They will talk in depth to some of the people you list, but they will also ask those people for other people!
And, as others have mentioned, it can take a long time. For Foreign Service jobs at State, they say it usually takes 45-90 days, but can take less or much longer (my friend's TS from Treasury took about 9 months... and she was only a couple years out of college and has never been overseas)
posted by alaijmw at 8:53 PM on December 29, 2010
Response by poster: Thanks very much alaijmw and everyone who pointed me to the DoD hearings. It makes perfect sense that the State Dept. does not bring people on board until the the clearance is done, but I did not realize that.
posted by Prayless at 9:03 PM on December 29, 2010
posted by Prayless at 9:03 PM on December 29, 2010
Top Secret is a higher level than Secret, but my brother obtained a Secret clearance while actively holding passports from two different countries. A Top Secret clearance could be a lot more robust than a Secret clearance and still be pretty easy to get.
posted by KathrynT at 9:44 PM on December 29, 2010
posted by KathrynT at 9:44 PM on December 29, 2010
Best answer: Well, there's an interim clearance and a final. You'll likely be brought on in a limited status once the initial checks screen ok - no big red flags. They'll wait until the final to give you full access.
When I got hired (DoD), even though I had a Secret at my prior job, I had to get an interim Confidential and a yellow badge, which meant I had to be escorted in nuclear work areas and couldn't go in Controlled Nuclear Information Areas. I could do my orientation and qualification, start meeting people, etc. A couple of months later, the final Confidential came through and I got my red (full access) badge.
It's possible for the interim to be granted but then the final to be denied, but not bloody likely unless you're hiding something and they find it out. I got my previous Secret for the nuclear program even though my wife's family lives all over the world, including some decidedly non-grata countries, plus her stateside family is actively involved in anti-nuclear activism. Members of her family were on FBI watch lists for civil rights activism and for defending accused communists in the Hoover era. You should have nothing to worry about.
posted by ctmf at 9:51 PM on December 29, 2010
When I got hired (DoD), even though I had a Secret at my prior job, I had to get an interim Confidential and a yellow badge, which meant I had to be escorted in nuclear work areas and couldn't go in Controlled Nuclear Information Areas. I could do my orientation and qualification, start meeting people, etc. A couple of months later, the final Confidential came through and I got my red (full access) badge.
It's possible for the interim to be granted but then the final to be denied, but not bloody likely unless you're hiding something and they find it out. I got my previous Secret for the nuclear program even though my wife's family lives all over the world, including some decidedly non-grata countries, plus her stateside family is actively involved in anti-nuclear activism. Members of her family were on FBI watch lists for civil rights activism and for defending accused communists in the Hoover era. You should have nothing to worry about.
posted by ctmf at 9:51 PM on December 29, 2010
Just a note on the not-hiding-things thing. My friend got denied TS clearance (and can't apply again for a full year) due to 'unintentional omission'. Basically she got arrested ten years ago and disclosed the charges on her application, but didn't even think to disclose the arresting officer's verbal charges that were later changed, never mentioned again, and never showed up on any paperwork.
The gov basically said, 'yeah - that sucks for you - it's not your fault, but the rules say you can't reapply for a full year. Just include the verbal charges on your next application. See ya.'
Hopefully you won't have any stupid surprises like that. Good luck!
posted by jenmakes at 10:43 PM on December 29, 2010
The gov basically said, 'yeah - that sucks for you - it's not your fault, but the rules say you can't reapply for a full year. Just include the verbal charges on your next application. See ya.'
Hopefully you won't have any stupid surprises like that. Good luck!
posted by jenmakes at 10:43 PM on December 29, 2010
Seconding what earlier commanders have said about not hiding info that could be used to blackmail you. I have an old school friend with such a clearance and he got his despite having taken drugs and the fact that he was made bankrupt and had stolen no less than twelve cars and got caught for all of them. However, he was completely unashamed of this and would volunteer the information when being introduced to someone new (he considered the experiences excellent source material for hilarious stories). As a result, bad as all this was, it was now useless for anyone who might try to use it to blackmail him.
posted by dougrayrankin at 2:13 AM on December 30, 2010
posted by dougrayrankin at 2:13 AM on December 30, 2010
Commenters. Frickin' iPhone.
posted by dougrayrankin at 2:14 AM on December 30, 2010
posted by dougrayrankin at 2:14 AM on December 30, 2010
Response by poster: Again, thanks, especially to ctmf who responded to my particular interest in weighing any risk of not being successful.
posted by Prayless at 4:43 AM on December 30, 2010
posted by Prayless at 4:43 AM on December 30, 2010
or that you used to smoke pot
The latest I've heard at work is that they've been denying clearances to people who have (rightfully) admitted on their questionnaires that they tried pot in college but haven't used it since.
I got a Secret and then a TS a couple years later, and I'm still not entirely sure how they decide what to check up on. For the Secret, I filled out the questionnaire and less than three months later had the clearance (I was told it would take up to 15 months). The TS, I got interviewed by the Investigative Services employee designated to my case (never met the one for my Secret). She also interviewed some coworkers and a couple of college friends - but not my parents, my live-in girlfriend, my neighbors, or any other contacts that I put on the questionnaire.
As others have said, "security risk" basically means you can be blackmailed or coerced in some way. Financial troubles are right at the top of the list - if you have a lot of debt and your budget isn't balanced you're probably going to be denied.
posted by backseatpilot at 5:46 AM on December 30, 2010
The latest I've heard at work is that they've been denying clearances to people who have (rightfully) admitted on their questionnaires that they tried pot in college but haven't used it since.
I got a Secret and then a TS a couple years later, and I'm still not entirely sure how they decide what to check up on. For the Secret, I filled out the questionnaire and less than three months later had the clearance (I was told it would take up to 15 months). The TS, I got interviewed by the Investigative Services employee designated to my case (never met the one for my Secret). She also interviewed some coworkers and a couple of college friends - but not my parents, my live-in girlfriend, my neighbors, or any other contacts that I put on the questionnaire.
As others have said, "security risk" basically means you can be blackmailed or coerced in some way. Financial troubles are right at the top of the list - if you have a lot of debt and your budget isn't balanced you're probably going to be denied.
posted by backseatpilot at 5:46 AM on December 30, 2010
Federal employment and security clearance lawyer here. The guidelines cited above tell you all you need to know. CIA is a different animal, and my knowledge of their procedures is only anecdotal.
Being into needle exchanges is one thing, advocating the violent overthrow of the United States government another. Review the State guidelines, obviously.
posted by Ironmouth at 6:19 AM on December 30, 2010
Being into needle exchanges is one thing, advocating the violent overthrow of the United States government another. Review the State guidelines, obviously.
posted by Ironmouth at 6:19 AM on December 30, 2010
It's amazing reading some of those security clearance decisions one how people appealed think they didn't get a fair shake, only to see they made poor decisions before, during, and after financial hardship and/or sexual deviance and/or drinking / drugs.
posted by indigo4963 at 12:51 PM on December 30, 2010
posted by indigo4963 at 12:51 PM on December 30, 2010
You'll be fine. Having friends who are Green Party folks or Marxist academics or Act Up demonstrators or pro-drug legalization advocates will absolutely not be a barrier to your clearance in any way.
posted by Sidhedevil at 5:15 PM on December 30, 2010
posted by Sidhedevil at 5:15 PM on December 30, 2010
Im not going to get into what I do for work, but I currently have a TS/SCI clerance and I know quite intricitately the hassles this can involve. Even something as simple as a Counter Terrorism Polygraph (CT Polys are becomming pretty standard for DoJ and Intelligence positions now) can potentially become a nightmare.
There is alot of good info above, some pretty speculative, but nonetheless, after you DO get it, you'll only have to fill that SF-86 out every 5-7 years so thats a good thing (remember to keep a copy for consistiancy sake - like when your reapplying for access in a few years - makes the process immensley more tolerable btw). Also, just be mindful of how easy it is to lose, especially once you get into an approved facility. Your clerance does open you up to a new world of jobs you might never had known existed and clearly better pay.
When your giving your contact's give friends and associates who will speak well of you and wouldent be cornered (trust me, my investagator ended up dating my uncle for a while after my initial) into answering a question that may paint you negatively, even if it was that one time at an anti-rally protest. Let me know if you have any more questions boss....
posted by TeachTheDead at 10:51 PM on January 6, 2011
There is alot of good info above, some pretty speculative, but nonetheless, after you DO get it, you'll only have to fill that SF-86 out every 5-7 years so thats a good thing (remember to keep a copy for consistiancy sake - like when your reapplying for access in a few years - makes the process immensley more tolerable btw). Also, just be mindful of how easy it is to lose, especially once you get into an approved facility. Your clerance does open you up to a new world of jobs you might never had known existed and clearly better pay.
When your giving your contact's give friends and associates who will speak well of you and wouldent be cornered (trust me, my investagator ended up dating my uncle for a while after my initial) into answering a question that may paint you negatively, even if it was that one time at an anti-rally protest. Let me know if you have any more questions boss....
posted by TeachTheDead at 10:51 PM on January 6, 2011
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by HuronBob at 8:36 PM on December 29, 2010