Should I just drink more?
December 23, 2010 4:19 PM Subscribe
Is it reasonable that I want my husband's family to know about his unemployment?
My husband was laid off in July and has been unemployed for over five months. He has not told either his mother (who lives very close by) or his sister (who has been unemployed for over 1.5 years). This is his only family in the US really, the rest is in Canada.
For him it has been working out pretty well as a "lie of omission" - they see him less and never ask about work or his job. For me it was working out differently. We have an almost 3 year old daughter, and I used to take her by her grandmother's a couple of times a week and make occasional short one-night visits to his sister's. At first it didn't bother me as much not to say anything, I thought maybe he would find a new job quickly.
The longer it has dragged out, the more I felt like I was actively participating in the lie. I pretty much stopped going by his mom's or communicating with his sister beyond a few text messages. I basically decided I would not reveal the truth as it is not mine to tell, but felt I should limit my involvement due to my increasing discomfort with the situation. I have had to make numerous vague references to his work in the course of normal conversations, i.e. "work is good", "he'll come by when he gets off", stuff like that.
Now I feel like I am supposed to go and participate in Christmas Eve and Christmas with his family as if nothing is going on. I am really unhappy with this. Overall I am getting pretty depressed by this whole unemployment situation and our prospects. We are getting to the point that I think we will have to start making some tough choices or seriously consider moving or other fallback ideas.
He says it is "none of their business" and that it would do no good to tell them. His sister has spent her whole term on unemployment getting drunk and partying. He thinks her knowing would allow her to "justify her behavior". He says his mother would just worry herself to death and/or bug him incessantly come over to her house to fix things. Really I mostly agree on both of these fronts - he's probably right, but what about me? It seems that my feelings and integrity are getting stomped on here.
Is there some other way I could look at this? Am I making it about me when I shouldn't? We have been arguing about it, I am pretty sure he wishes I would just shut up. I personally can't imagine not telling my parents such a thing (and they do know about it) but generally speaking they are much more respectful/supportive of our decisions. Honestly going for family Christmas with few to no gifts and acting like everything is great and normal seems beyond me at this point. What should I do?
My husband was laid off in July and has been unemployed for over five months. He has not told either his mother (who lives very close by) or his sister (who has been unemployed for over 1.5 years). This is his only family in the US really, the rest is in Canada.
For him it has been working out pretty well as a "lie of omission" - they see him less and never ask about work or his job. For me it was working out differently. We have an almost 3 year old daughter, and I used to take her by her grandmother's a couple of times a week and make occasional short one-night visits to his sister's. At first it didn't bother me as much not to say anything, I thought maybe he would find a new job quickly.
The longer it has dragged out, the more I felt like I was actively participating in the lie. I pretty much stopped going by his mom's or communicating with his sister beyond a few text messages. I basically decided I would not reveal the truth as it is not mine to tell, but felt I should limit my involvement due to my increasing discomfort with the situation. I have had to make numerous vague references to his work in the course of normal conversations, i.e. "work is good", "he'll come by when he gets off", stuff like that.
Now I feel like I am supposed to go and participate in Christmas Eve and Christmas with his family as if nothing is going on. I am really unhappy with this. Overall I am getting pretty depressed by this whole unemployment situation and our prospects. We are getting to the point that I think we will have to start making some tough choices or seriously consider moving or other fallback ideas.
He says it is "none of their business" and that it would do no good to tell them. His sister has spent her whole term on unemployment getting drunk and partying. He thinks her knowing would allow her to "justify her behavior". He says his mother would just worry herself to death and/or bug him incessantly come over to her house to fix things. Really I mostly agree on both of these fronts - he's probably right, but what about me? It seems that my feelings and integrity are getting stomped on here.
Is there some other way I could look at this? Am I making it about me when I shouldn't? We have been arguing about it, I am pretty sure he wishes I would just shut up. I personally can't imagine not telling my parents such a thing (and they do know about it) but generally speaking they are much more respectful/supportive of our decisions. Honestly going for family Christmas with few to no gifts and acting like everything is great and normal seems beyond me at this point. What should I do?
At the very least, try to make it through the holidays without incident. Good luck !
posted by lobstah at 4:35 PM on December 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by lobstah at 4:35 PM on December 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
I sympathise, that is tough for you, but I think this is one of the times in your partnership where you have to swallow your own needs and support your partner in the way he requires. You both agree that telling his family would cause more problems; lean on your own more respectfu and supportivel family to get throug the tough times together. His family can get a framed photo fo your beautiful daughter and your preschooler will be happy with small gifts and the love of her family this Christmas, that is all she needs.
If you just can't stand the pressure of seeing his family at Christmas then all of you stay home and beg off with an illness, ha can take her at another time without you. Good luck.
posted by saucysault at 4:41 PM on December 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
If you just can't stand the pressure of seeing his family at Christmas then all of you stay home and beg off with an illness, ha can take her at another time without you. Good luck.
posted by saucysault at 4:41 PM on December 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
Some people are sharing types and others play it close to the vest with family members. I have friends who speak with their parents and share all sorts of details that I would be mortified to relay to my parents, but we just have different comfort levels. If he is not okay with sharing the information (and it seems you agree with his rationale), then I would respect his decision, at least for the holidays, when emotions and general stress levels can be heightened.
posted by macska at 4:45 PM on December 23, 2010
posted by macska at 4:45 PM on December 23, 2010
I can only emphasize rougy's post. It is his family, and his way to tell them. Dynamics are very different in families. For instance my wife's family knew we were getting married for almost a year, I only told my family 6 months beforehand. I wanted to do it in person, and it really didn't matter anyway.
You husband probably has a litany of reasons to do it in his way. Let him. He really knows best in this situation.
posted by sanka at 4:47 PM on December 23, 2010
You husband probably has a litany of reasons to do it in his way. Let him. He really knows best in this situation.
posted by sanka at 4:47 PM on December 23, 2010
Surely there have been times when you felt like his family was being meddlesome and overbearing?
You mention that you have a young daughter: was there a time before she was born when they were constantly badgering you about "When you're going to give us grandchildren" or whatever? After she was born, did they constantly second-guess your parenting choices?
Telling them about his unemployment will be like that, but a thousand times worse because their meddlesome-ness will carry that air of sanctimony and disapproval. Focus on that part, on the repercussions of what happens if you tell them.
And remember that there's nothing they can do to help the situation. It's not like telling them about it will make your husband less unemployed. All it will do is make things worse, for both of you.
Try to isolate this specific situation (whether or not to tell the family) from your feelings about the situation at large. Don't let your negative feelings about his financial/job situation spill over and affect this otherwise-small issue.
posted by ErikaB at 4:56 PM on December 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
You mention that you have a young daughter: was there a time before she was born when they were constantly badgering you about "When you're going to give us grandchildren" or whatever? After she was born, did they constantly second-guess your parenting choices?
Telling them about his unemployment will be like that, but a thousand times worse because their meddlesome-ness will carry that air of sanctimony and disapproval. Focus on that part, on the repercussions of what happens if you tell them.
And remember that there's nothing they can do to help the situation. It's not like telling them about it will make your husband less unemployed. All it will do is make things worse, for both of you.
Try to isolate this specific situation (whether or not to tell the family) from your feelings about the situation at large. Don't let your negative feelings about his financial/job situation spill over and affect this otherwise-small issue.
posted by ErikaB at 4:56 PM on December 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
Since you're not complaining about his efforts to find a new job, my guess is your husband wants to focus on the real issue--dealing with unemployment and getting a job--rather than a side issue that would only add to his stress.
I understand your point of view on this too, but I do wonder if there's some element of displacement involved, where you're increasingly engaged by what looks like a more immediate and solvable problem the more that you're getting down about the big picture.
But probably you'd both prefer that the bigger problem be addressed without any unnecessary complications from shame and humiliation and nagging. So there's not much to do here except support him in avoiding something he thinks will be even worse, because he may well be right and because you don't want to derail the superordinate aim.
posted by Monsieur Caution at 5:12 PM on December 23, 2010
I understand your point of view on this too, but I do wonder if there's some element of displacement involved, where you're increasingly engaged by what looks like a more immediate and solvable problem the more that you're getting down about the big picture.
But probably you'd both prefer that the bigger problem be addressed without any unnecessary complications from shame and humiliation and nagging. So there's not much to do here except support him in avoiding something he thinks will be even worse, because he may well be right and because you don't want to derail the superordinate aim.
posted by Monsieur Caution at 5:12 PM on December 23, 2010
I have had to make numerous vague references to his work in the course of normal conversations, i.e. "work is good", "he'll come by when he gets off", stuff like that.
So he's been doing the 'lie by omission' thing and you've been doing the actual lying. No wonder you're not happy about this when it wasn't your idea. Looks like you've got to stop doing that in order to feel better about yourself, which would be easiest if he would just tell them already, but otherwise involves total avoidance (doesn't look like that'll be happening) or responding to all questions with 'you'd have to ask him about that yourself', which may or may not make them suspicious, which may or may not upset him, which may or may not lead to more arguments.
Basically, yes, I think it's totally reasonable for you to be upset and angry about this, despite the fact that he deals with his family in a different way than you do with yours, but I'm sorry, I don't have any advice. Good luck.
posted by Lebannen at 5:39 PM on December 23, 2010 [7 favorites]
So he's been doing the 'lie by omission' thing and you've been doing the actual lying. No wonder you're not happy about this when it wasn't your idea. Looks like you've got to stop doing that in order to feel better about yourself, which would be easiest if he would just tell them already, but otherwise involves total avoidance (doesn't look like that'll be happening) or responding to all questions with 'you'd have to ask him about that yourself', which may or may not make them suspicious, which may or may not upset him, which may or may not lead to more arguments.
Basically, yes, I think it's totally reasonable for you to be upset and angry about this, despite the fact that he deals with his family in a different way than you do with yours, but I'm sorry, I don't have any advice. Good luck.
posted by Lebannen at 5:39 PM on December 23, 2010 [7 favorites]
Well, I think it's going to get more and more awkward to keep hiding it, is the problem. Yeah, nobody wants his parents to nag him incessantly and it won't make things any better to tell, but if you guys are dealing with long term employment, eventually it's going to be noticeable if you've got to cut costs and such. Especially if it's the holidays. And especially if you guys are trapped with relatives in an enclosed space for a few days being asked nosy questions. And the longer this goes on, the bigger the backlash of "Why didn't you tell us?!?!!1111!!" is going to be.
Yeah, it's going to be awful telling them and dealing with the nagging and the hell that will come from being honest. But this is not a lie that you can keep up forever, especially if (as the world continues to suck) he probably isn't going to get a job really really soon. That's the point I'd make to him: it's only going to get harder to hide from here on in at this point, and it'll be better if he fesses up rather than getting caught out in the lie.
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:47 PM on December 23, 2010 [2 favorites]
Yeah, it's going to be awful telling them and dealing with the nagging and the hell that will come from being honest. But this is not a lie that you can keep up forever, especially if (as the world continues to suck) he probably isn't going to get a job really really soon. That's the point I'd make to him: it's only going to get harder to hide from here on in at this point, and it'll be better if he fesses up rather than getting caught out in the lie.
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:47 PM on December 23, 2010 [2 favorites]
Just go to the festivities, your bonus is that while you are there and his relatives ask how his job is going, he will have to answer. You have no obligation to answer for him.
The burden is on his shoulders, your communications with your in laws will improve over time to the point that loss of jobs should not be kept secret. We ALL go through difficult times, but at this point it's his decision to try and , pardon if I word this poorly, scam his way through the holidays.
Also the best gift you can give on any holiday is your presence, so don't worry about presents.
posted by Max Power at 6:34 PM on December 23, 2010
The burden is on his shoulders, your communications with your in laws will improve over time to the point that loss of jobs should not be kept secret. We ALL go through difficult times, but at this point it's his decision to try and , pardon if I word this poorly, scam his way through the holidays.
Also the best gift you can give on any holiday is your presence, so don't worry about presents.
posted by Max Power at 6:34 PM on December 23, 2010
Just because you're lying doesn't mean you're acting without integrity. It is none of their business, and their knowing would make things actively worse for you, your husband, and them. Telling them would actually be an unethical act in these circumstances, in my opinion.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 6:50 PM on December 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 6:50 PM on December 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
A good husband doesn't make his wife lie.
posted by MsKim at 7:12 PM on December 23, 2010 [13 favorites]
posted by MsKim at 7:12 PM on December 23, 2010 [13 favorites]
I like "you should ask him about it" as an answer to questions about how his work is going, or when he's coming to visit. Yes, it may raise suspicions (though if I were to hear it, I'd just assume he didn't like his job, not that he'd lost it), but if you're someone who can't stand to lie except in life-or-death situations, it's a way to avoid lying without telling the secret yourself.
I personally think it's not fair to ask a spouse to lie in order to avoid difficult interactions with your own family.
posted by palliser at 8:56 PM on December 23, 2010 [5 favorites]
I personally think it's not fair to ask a spouse to lie in order to avoid difficult interactions with your own family.
posted by palliser at 8:56 PM on December 23, 2010 [5 favorites]
I came into this thread with one opinion and have come to an opposite conclusion by the end of the responses.
Wikipedia: White lies are minor lies which could be considered to be harmless, or even beneficial, in the long term. White lies are also considered to be used for greater good.
Your husband doesn't want to tell his family. What benefit do you see to telling them? Can they help? Will telling them accomplish anything besides relieving your own discomfort with the situation? If you truly think so, maybe you stop with the "work's good" comments and they figure out they need to corner your husband and badger him until he gives it up. If not, decide to be on your husband's team and keep respecting his wish, however much it's not the course you would have chosen.
posted by coupdefoudre at 9:03 PM on December 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
Wikipedia: White lies are minor lies which could be considered to be harmless, or even beneficial, in the long term. White lies are also considered to be used for greater good.
Your husband doesn't want to tell his family. What benefit do you see to telling them? Can they help? Will telling them accomplish anything besides relieving your own discomfort with the situation? If you truly think so, maybe you stop with the "work's good" comments and they figure out they need to corner your husband and badger him until he gives it up. If not, decide to be on your husband's team and keep respecting his wish, however much it's not the course you would have chosen.
posted by coupdefoudre at 9:03 PM on December 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
Opt out of Christmas with his family and go visit your own.
You have a relationship with his family. If you feel like you can no longer lie to these people then stop. Your husband can make whatever excuses he needs to make. It's his lie to continue.
posted by 26.2 at 12:08 AM on December 24, 2010 [3 favorites]
You have a relationship with his family. If you feel like you can no longer lie to these people then stop. Your husband can make whatever excuses he needs to make. It's his lie to continue.
posted by 26.2 at 12:08 AM on December 24, 2010 [3 favorites]
He's known his family longer than you have, dealing with their reactions to this might consume time he'd prefer to use on his job hunt. You've said your parents are more respectful and supportive, which implies they aren't.
I have had to make numerous vague references to his work in the course of normal conversations, i.e. "work is good", "he'll come by when he gets off", stuff like that.
You're stomping on your own integrity there. Couldn't you say he'll come by later on, and sidestep talking about how his work is? If "work is good" is all the answer they require, telling them you have nothing new to say about it would probably fill the bill just as well.
We are getting to the point that I think we will have to start making some tough choices or seriously consider moving or other fallback ideas.
You need to be looking at these now (a few months ago would have been better, but you no longer have that option), not waiting until the situation is dire. It takes money to move. Are you more worried about this family secret because it distracts you from the pressing need to do this?
posted by yohko at 2:11 AM on December 24, 2010
I have had to make numerous vague references to his work in the course of normal conversations, i.e. "work is good", "he'll come by when he gets off", stuff like that.
You're stomping on your own integrity there. Couldn't you say he'll come by later on, and sidestep talking about how his work is? If "work is good" is all the answer they require, telling them you have nothing new to say about it would probably fill the bill just as well.
We are getting to the point that I think we will have to start making some tough choices or seriously consider moving or other fallback ideas.
You need to be looking at these now (a few months ago would have been better, but you no longer have that option), not waiting until the situation is dire. It takes money to move. Are you more worried about this family secret because it distracts you from the pressing need to do this?
posted by yohko at 2:11 AM on December 24, 2010
Have you been very explicit with your husband, that his insistence on non-communication is placing you in awkward situations which he is not in?
I think the hardest part of this may be that he believes that with the right evasions, he's not really asking you to lie. But being constantly evasive is draining, and is inconsistent with your character. It will also affect your in-law's opinion of *you* in the future, and not in a "oh she was being a supportive wife" kind of way.
I'm not saying that it's utterly beyond the pale for him to ask this of you, but I do think he is responsible for understanding the scope of it. For instance, he needs to understand that your in-laws ask you direct questions about where he is and how his work is, and that you are forced to respond with obvious evasions, or lies.
My point: it's okay for him to ask you to lie for him (you get to say yes or no, but it's okay for him to ask.) It is NOT okay for him to create a situation which requires you to lie for him, without him taking responsibility for it. The implication that if you were simply sufficiently socially deft if would be a non-issue is false and unfair.
posted by endless_forms at 8:28 AM on December 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
I think the hardest part of this may be that he believes that with the right evasions, he's not really asking you to lie. But being constantly evasive is draining, and is inconsistent with your character. It will also affect your in-law's opinion of *you* in the future, and not in a "oh she was being a supportive wife" kind of way.
I'm not saying that it's utterly beyond the pale for him to ask this of you, but I do think he is responsible for understanding the scope of it. For instance, he needs to understand that your in-laws ask you direct questions about where he is and how his work is, and that you are forced to respond with obvious evasions, or lies.
My point: it's okay for him to ask you to lie for him (you get to say yes or no, but it's okay for him to ask.) It is NOT okay for him to create a situation which requires you to lie for him, without him taking responsibility for it. The implication that if you were simply sufficiently socially deft if would be a non-issue is false and unfair.
posted by endless_forms at 8:28 AM on December 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
Can you try discussing this with your husband again, with a clear emphasis on "I respect your decision about whether and what to tell them, but I really don't know how to answer the questions they ask me, and I feel terrible lying"?
posted by kristi at 9:44 PM on December 25, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by kristi at 9:44 PM on December 25, 2010 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
I can understand your discouragement, and you're not out of line for feeling this way, but could you imagine him telling your family something that you didn't want them to know? Or just imagine him doing something that you explicitly did not want him to do.
Just support the guy as much as you can, and let a lot of water roll off your back.
You're not alone. I haven't had a job in over three years (and I was denied unemployment for reasons never explained), and if it weren't for a series of fortunate events, I'd be in a world of hurt.
posted by rougy at 4:32 PM on December 23, 2010 [3 favorites]