Help a girl pick a sport for life.
December 23, 2010 2:09 PM Subscribe
I want to pick a sport that I can play throughout my life. I admire those people who are triathletes, tennis players or runners (really, whoever is playing a sport that they are enjoying). They look good and they feel good (at least they look like they are enjoying themselves). I want to become one of those people, but I need help!
So, I always wanted to do this. I am 21, female, 5'4'' (about 164 cm), and about 135 (say 61 kg) pounds. Some more info: I am extremely out of shape (I don't think I would be able to run 5K if I had to). I have insanely quick reflexes and am very flexible. However, I also have no sense of direction (cannot do orienteering) and kind of a slow runner. I am kind of flabby (which is something I want to fix) and have low muscle tone. I tend to like sports that are more -how to put this- strategically oriented? (Maybe that's why I was a chess player for 12 years, hehe.) I was on the crew team for a year, I really did not like it too much because it just felt like applying brute force. I remember liking volleyball and tennis a lot, I remember liking yoga a lot as well. I learned how to ride a bike 2 years ago so I am not very confident with that. I am an OK swimmer, I really do like swimming though. So, what kind of a sport do you think I should pick up, considering my strengths/weaknesses and likes/dislikes? I am sad that when I bend over I feel like an old lady. I want to fix this. I want to feel better about my body.
Really appreciate the help. Thanks!
So, I always wanted to do this. I am 21, female, 5'4'' (about 164 cm), and about 135 (say 61 kg) pounds. Some more info: I am extremely out of shape (I don't think I would be able to run 5K if I had to). I have insanely quick reflexes and am very flexible. However, I also have no sense of direction (cannot do orienteering) and kind of a slow runner. I am kind of flabby (which is something I want to fix) and have low muscle tone. I tend to like sports that are more -how to put this- strategically oriented? (Maybe that's why I was a chess player for 12 years, hehe.) I was on the crew team for a year, I really did not like it too much because it just felt like applying brute force. I remember liking volleyball and tennis a lot, I remember liking yoga a lot as well. I learned how to ride a bike 2 years ago so I am not very confident with that. I am an OK swimmer, I really do like swimming though. So, what kind of a sport do you think I should pick up, considering my strengths/weaknesses and likes/dislikes? I am sad that when I bend over I feel like an old lady. I want to fix this. I want to feel better about my body.
Really appreciate the help. Thanks!
Cycling is definitely an option for a lifelong sport-hobby. Find a club in your area with multiple levels, go on the beginner's ride (even better if they have classes), and see if it's for you. Cycling with people, many of whom have more experience than you, will definitely help your confidence with that.
posted by supercres at 2:17 PM on December 23, 2010
posted by supercres at 2:17 PM on December 23, 2010
Racquetball.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 2:22 PM on December 23, 2010
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 2:22 PM on December 23, 2010
Judo sounds like a good choice for you. Quick reflexes are very helpful, and on the ground, flexibility opens up a lot of options for you. It doesn't involve any running, but requires and builds a lot of anaerobic endurance (which I understand is big in swimming) as well as strength. (I could barely do one pull-up before starting judo. After a few months, I was able to do four, then fairly easily build on that.) It also burns a ton of calories. At your age, it should burn flab pretty consistently.
One of the two main principles of judo is using an opponent's momentum and effort against him instead of resorting to brute force. ("Maximum effect with minimum effort.") Of course, brute strength still helps quite a bit, and when faced with someone of roughly equal skill, pure endurance and strength determine who gets their way.
As for longevity, my old dojo had quite a few 60+ judoka, many of which consistently kicked my ass And yes, I was really trying. There was one sensei that should show up every once in a while who was in his eighties. His body was no longer in a condition to spar with us, but he did do the warm ups, which was quite impressive, considering some octogenarians have trouble walking. He didn't drill with us, either, but he did step in and show me his tai otoshi once, and man, it was sharp.
posted by ignignokt at 2:28 PM on December 23, 2010
One of the two main principles of judo is using an opponent's momentum and effort against him instead of resorting to brute force. ("Maximum effect with minimum effort.") Of course, brute strength still helps quite a bit, and when faced with someone of roughly equal skill, pure endurance and strength determine who gets their way.
As for longevity, my old dojo had quite a few 60+ judoka, many of which consistently kicked my ass And yes, I was really trying. There was one sensei that should show up every once in a while who was in his eighties. His body was no longer in a condition to spar with us, but he did do the warm ups, which was quite impressive, considering some octogenarians have trouble walking. He didn't drill with us, either, but he did step in and show me his tai otoshi once, and man, it was sharp.
posted by ignignokt at 2:28 PM on December 23, 2010
There a quite a few martial arts that would work well for you. I've had my butt kicked in judo by a 75-year old.
posted by tdismukes at 2:30 PM on December 23, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by tdismukes at 2:30 PM on December 23, 2010 [2 favorites]
Horseback riding. Take lessons. It's not just sitting on a horse. It's learning how to make your horse do what you want when you want it to - and that takes work and muscle. It's caring for a horse, lugging saddles around, finding your balance. After riding your legs will feel like jelly. You'll be sore. Once you get the basics down - walk, trot, canter, posting, steering, etc., you may move on to jumping. Do you know the muscle it takes to hold yourself just a few inches off the saddle? Jumping requires counting steps in between jumps, keeping your heels down, and a myriad other things. There is a lot involved and often after a vigorous ride I find myself sweating as much as the horse but I never knew I was "working out" because it was so much fun and there was so much more to focus on than "oh my gosh I'm working out."
posted by Sassyfras at 2:34 PM on December 23, 2010
posted by Sassyfras at 2:34 PM on December 23, 2010
I LOVE ice hockey. Quick reflexes are obviously a plus, and you don't have to be in super-good shape, because you will be quickly whipped into super-good shape. If you don't know how to skate, you can learn.
posted by pipti at 2:34 PM on December 23, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by pipti at 2:34 PM on December 23, 2010 [3 favorites]
Non team training:
Jiu Jitsu.
Krav Maga. - less grappling, more standup fighting.
Team sports:
Ultimate Frisbee.
Soccer.
(American) Football.
Waterpolo. -- If you like swimming, volleyball, and have quick reflexes this might be a good fit.
posted by benzenedream at 2:35 PM on December 23, 2010
Jiu Jitsu.
Krav Maga. - less grappling, more standup fighting.
Team sports:
Ultimate Frisbee.
Soccer.
(American) Football.
Waterpolo. -- If you like swimming, volleyball, and have quick reflexes this might be a good fit.
posted by benzenedream at 2:35 PM on December 23, 2010
Tennis sounds like a good fit, and you said that you already like it a lot. You might enjoy doubles even more than singles if you haven't tried it, as you spend more time at the net so it calls for faster reflexes, and there is even more of a tactical element to it.
You don't need to be in good shape to get started, and it's definitely something that people keep playing all their lives, so it won't be hard to find people to play with at any age.
Other advantages are that it's pretty easy to organize, you only need to round up 1-3 other people, and lots of people of both sexes play it. And tennis players generally seem to be very nice people in my experience.
I recommend joining a class and/or getting a coach to get you jump started.
posted by philipy at 2:41 PM on December 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
You don't need to be in good shape to get started, and it's definitely something that people keep playing all their lives, so it won't be hard to find people to play with at any age.
Other advantages are that it's pretty easy to organize, you only need to round up 1-3 other people, and lots of people of both sexes play it. And tennis players generally seem to be very nice people in my experience.
I recommend joining a class and/or getting a coach to get you jump started.
posted by philipy at 2:41 PM on December 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
Seconding Jiu Jitsu / submission fighting / some kind of grappling that involves tapping out. Great fun, great workout, lots to learn , and very strategic. It's not a bunch of random rolling and pulling, there are tons of very specific maneuvers that work from wherever you are. I've heard it compared to chess on many occasions. And if you have fast reflexes and are flexible, you're starting from a strong point. I didn't have either of those when I started and I enjoyed it. And it works every_single_muscle because you end up moving in every possible direction.
The first time you attend a class, you might think "wow, there are a lot more dudes here than ladies." But the ladies always get a tremendous amount of respect because, well, most of them can kick the guys' asses.
posted by Tehhund at 2:42 PM on December 23, 2010
The first time you attend a class, you might think "wow, there are a lot more dudes here than ladies." But the ladies always get a tremendous amount of respect because, well, most of them can kick the guys' asses.
posted by Tehhund at 2:42 PM on December 23, 2010
Perhaps I should mention... depending on where you are, the downside of tennis is that you might not be able to play it all year round, so you might want another sport for the winter.
posted by philipy at 2:44 PM on December 23, 2010
posted by philipy at 2:44 PM on December 23, 2010
My 16 year old son fences, and he regularly goes up against 20, 30, 40 and 50 year olds in competition. There is a 70 year old guy that is a regular at almost all the local events. Fencing is set up so that you can compete in opens, where you may be fencing against a 13 year old future Olympian, his mother or father, or his grandfather. There are also age segregated divisions as you get older and want to play with kids you own age.
Fencing is often called "physical chess." Reflexes and speed help, but guile and smarts usually win out.
posted by COD at 2:47 PM on December 23, 2010
Fencing is often called "physical chess." Reflexes and speed help, but guile and smarts usually win out.
posted by COD at 2:47 PM on December 23, 2010
Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is physical chess. A match goes: I make a move, you counter that move, I know a counter to that counter, and you knew all along I was going to use that counter to your counter and use that position to submit me. I train it as a sport nowadays rather than a self-defense, but as a side-effect, it is an especially good self-defense for women, who may find themselves 1-on-1, on the ground, against a much bigger, stronger attacker. Flexibility helps a lot, but reflexes won't be relevant until you get to a high level; now MENTAL agility will give you a huge advantage.
It'll also get your entire body in fantastic shape (especially your back), but as a side-effect -- it just sorta happens along the way as you get more and more into the sport. You will likely also find yourself cross-training (crossfit, cardio, strength) not to improve your conditioning, per se, but to improve your jiu jitsu. It has a ton of positive psychological side-effects too (confidence, ego-control, etc.).
FYI, there's a gym in Istanbul (and most decent-sized cities) if that's where you still live.
posted by LordSludge at 2:49 PM on December 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
It'll also get your entire body in fantastic shape (especially your back), but as a side-effect -- it just sorta happens along the way as you get more and more into the sport. You will likely also find yourself cross-training (crossfit, cardio, strength) not to improve your conditioning, per se, but to improve your jiu jitsu. It has a ton of positive psychological side-effects too (confidence, ego-control, etc.).
FYI, there's a gym in Istanbul (and most decent-sized cities) if that's where you still live.
posted by LordSludge at 2:49 PM on December 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
I was in a similar position to you for most of my life, never really doing a lot of sports other than running (and I was consistently the slowest on the team) until last year when my current boyfriend introduced me to rock climbing. I happen to live in the SF Bay Area where not only are there numerous outdoor climbs within a 3-4 hour drive, but there are also indoor gyms that are fantastic. If you can find a gym near you and take an indoor climbing class, I bet you would love it. The thing that I absolutely love about climbing is that each route becomes a puzzle that I have to figure out with my body. Seeing as you played chess for many years, this part of climbing will probably appeal to you. It is really difficult when starting out, because of the mental challenge not only with the puzzle-solving, but also involving quelling my serious fear of heights. I love it through and through though, and am constantly trying to get more of my friends to try climbing with me.
Okay on preview I discovered that you are located in Turkey. Perhaps rock climbing in a gym might be too much of a stretch, but perhaps not! You can memail me with any questions, I can direct you to some climbing websites that have forums where people are constantly looking for climbing partners all over the world.
posted by ruhroh at 2:56 PM on December 23, 2010
Okay on preview I discovered that you are located in Turkey. Perhaps rock climbing in a gym might be too much of a stretch, but perhaps not! You can memail me with any questions, I can direct you to some climbing websites that have forums where people are constantly looking for climbing partners all over the world.
posted by ruhroh at 2:56 PM on December 23, 2010
Response by poster: Thank you for all the wonderful answers so far!
I really would like to learn martial arts, but I am sort of worried that I won't be able to carry it out by myself. What if there are no dojos around? There are some P.E. classes that are offered at my uni: Tae Kwon Do/Karate, Tai Chi, Aikido, and mixed martial arts training. Which one do you think would be a better fit if I cannot take Jiu Jitsu or Judo classes?
Also, Some of you noticed that I "currently" live in Turkey. I spend about 8 months a year in Durham, NC and 4 months in Istanbul, Turkey, which is a problem. (I would ideally pick something I can practice by myself, year round.)
posted by kuju at 3:02 PM on December 23, 2010
I really would like to learn martial arts, but I am sort of worried that I won't be able to carry it out by myself. What if there are no dojos around? There are some P.E. classes that are offered at my uni: Tae Kwon Do/Karate, Tai Chi, Aikido, and mixed martial arts training. Which one do you think would be a better fit if I cannot take Jiu Jitsu or Judo classes?
Also, Some of you noticed that I "currently" live in Turkey. I spend about 8 months a year in Durham, NC and 4 months in Istanbul, Turkey, which is a problem. (I would ideally pick something I can practice by myself, year round.)
posted by kuju at 3:02 PM on December 23, 2010
I'm in love with roller derby. 9 months ago I was out of shape and couldn't skate, and now I'm fit as a fiddle and on a team with wonderful women having a whole lot of fun. Just saw there that you're in Turkey, but I don't think it's extended outside of the Americas and Western Europe yet, and it's not really a lifelong thing I suppose.
posted by hannahlambda at 3:13 PM on December 23, 2010
posted by hannahlambda at 3:13 PM on December 23, 2010
Nthing rock climbing. It's definitely strategic (bouldering routes are sometimes callde "problems"), but it will dramatically improve your muscles.
posted by novalis_dt at 3:51 PM on December 23, 2010
posted by novalis_dt at 3:51 PM on December 23, 2010
Fencing is awesome (as others have said) and easily transferable from country to country. Martial arts tends to be more idiosyncratic with each school having its own ways. Fencing is basically the same everywhere.
Also -- writing this as a female who did martial arts for years -- the Creepy Guy Factor, which unfortunately is significant in martial arts, is not an issue in fencing as creepy/gropey guys will be kept at at bay by the business end of an approximately 1m weapon.
posted by grounded at 3:51 PM on December 23, 2010
Also -- writing this as a female who did martial arts for years -- the Creepy Guy Factor, which unfortunately is significant in martial arts, is not an issue in fencing as creepy/gropey guys will be kept at at bay by the business end of an approximately 1m weapon.
posted by grounded at 3:51 PM on December 23, 2010
You seem like a natural for Ashtanga yoga. You've already said you enjoy yoga - the Ashtanga style is very physical and will get you extremely strong & flexible - it can be done solo or in groups - it's taught all over the world - and you can keep improving and learning forever.
posted by facetious at 3:58 PM on December 23, 2010
posted by facetious at 3:58 PM on December 23, 2010
A lot of good answers already (Riding! Fencing!), but let me recommend table tennis. Easier on the joints than tennis, heavily reliant on quick reflexes and strategic thinking. Popular in both stateside and Turkey. A couple of the gentlemen in the club here are competitive in their 80s and 90s and have played for decades, so there's your longevity in a sport (one took home the gold medal in TT in the Senior Olympics, actually). And it's fun -- how many competitive sports will have you laughing?
posted by vers at 4:22 PM on December 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by vers at 4:22 PM on December 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
Given what you've mentioned is available, doing both tai chi and aikido might be a good combo. Depending on the aikido school you might end up with fun strategic elements or not, but good aikido definitely plays with sensitivity, timing, and balance, and will give you that fun interaction to work with. Tai chi also helps balance and sensitivity, and also helpfully- focuses a lot on forms and solo practice, which you can do while in Turkey if you can't find anything to do over there.
posted by yeloson at 4:26 PM on December 23, 2010
posted by yeloson at 4:26 PM on December 23, 2010
Disc Golf.
I happen to run a group for it and believe it or not you do get in a good amount of exercise if you're serious about playing and you make sure to get out enough. Just getting out there and walking feels great, but you get some extra exercise on the hilly courses. Also, it's cheap to get into and once you have a bag and discs it's basically free.
posted by zombieApoc at 5:49 PM on December 23, 2010
I happen to run a group for it and believe it or not you do get in a good amount of exercise if you're serious about playing and you make sure to get out enough. Just getting out there and walking feels great, but you get some extra exercise on the hilly courses. Also, it's cheap to get into and once you have a bag and discs it's basically free.
posted by zombieApoc at 5:49 PM on December 23, 2010
FWIW, I travel a lot for work -- I live in SC, but every week I fly out to [wherever] on Monday and get back Friday. When I first got the job, I thought I'd have to give up Brazilian Jiu Jitsu (commonly abbreviated as "BJJ"). On the contrary, I've been able to find a decent gym in every place I've been so far. None of them tops my home gym (Alliance BJJ in Greenville, SC), but at least I can always find a place to train. (Some charge a "mat fee" of $10-15 to train; some don't.) It's turned the work-travel into a positive thing, as each gym has a different style and I get a new crop of opponents at each gym.
It's gonna be hard to find a martial art you can practice totally on your own, unless you count katas. I watch a lot of BJJ technique videos by myself, but that's mental training, not physical. And BJJ is very mental, much more so than I anticipated going in -- when my mind wanders off in idle mode, it often crunches on BJJ strategy. It's like solving an endless puzzle that keeps changing; no matter how good you get, there's always more to learn.
Looks like there are a few BJJ gyms in Durham. I've trained at Forged Fitness in Raleigh; great facility, but maybe too far of a drive for you. I'd suggest jumping on Google Maps and searching for "BJJ near Istanbul" or anyplace you think you may travel, just to give a better idea of training facilities available to you.
I've often thought that rock climbing, mentioned above, would be a fantastic cross-train to BJJ. Grips, balance, and general body control probably carry over well from one to the other. Of course you'll need a climbing buddy to belay you at least until you learn how to climb solo. And there's always gear, gear, gear...
posted by LordSludge at 6:31 PM on December 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
It's gonna be hard to find a martial art you can practice totally on your own, unless you count katas. I watch a lot of BJJ technique videos by myself, but that's mental training, not physical. And BJJ is very mental, much more so than I anticipated going in -- when my mind wanders off in idle mode, it often crunches on BJJ strategy. It's like solving an endless puzzle that keeps changing; no matter how good you get, there's always more to learn.
Looks like there are a few BJJ gyms in Durham. I've trained at Forged Fitness in Raleigh; great facility, but maybe too far of a drive for you. I'd suggest jumping on Google Maps and searching for "BJJ near Istanbul" or anyplace you think you may travel, just to give a better idea of training facilities available to you.
I've often thought that rock climbing, mentioned above, would be a fantastic cross-train to BJJ. Grips, balance, and general body control probably carry over well from one to the other. Of course you'll need a climbing buddy to belay you at least until you learn how to climb solo. And there's always gear, gear, gear...
posted by LordSludge at 6:31 PM on December 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
Tennis player here so I would definitely recommend that, but if you are drawn to something a little different, squash might be a good fit. The game is very strategic requiring a good player to master shots with both power and with finesse. The ball doesn't bounce very much so you spend a lot of time running down shots so it's a great work out. The drawback is court availability is limited and expensive compared to tennis where you can typically find free public courts.
Take some lessons for either tennis or squash as there is some technique to be learned that will pay off in the long run, and it will take time to learn these sports. Tennis can be practiced on your own against a wall, but is always more fun with people.
In any case you don't have to tie yourself down to a particular activity. Get out there and be active! You've got the right goals.
posted by Edward L at 6:56 PM on December 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
Take some lessons for either tennis or squash as there is some technique to be learned that will pay off in the long run, and it will take time to learn these sports. Tennis can be practiced on your own against a wall, but is always more fun with people.
In any case you don't have to tie yourself down to a particular activity. Get out there and be active! You've got the right goals.
posted by Edward L at 6:56 PM on December 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
Badminton is also worth a consideration. It's not the backyard game we think it is.
posted by Edward L at 6:59 PM on December 23, 2010
posted by Edward L at 6:59 PM on December 23, 2010
I have insanely quick reflexes and am very flexible. However, I also have no sense of direction (cannot do orienteering) and kind of a slow runner. I am kind of flabby (which is something I want to fix) and have low muscle tone. I tend to like sports that are more -how to put this- strategically oriented?
I second squash. Some reasons:
- Since it is played on a small court, it privileges quick reflexes and strategic play over running - even more so than tennis, which still requires a fair amount of running. Although at higher levels, it requires a high level of endurance and overall fitness, but it is also almost unique, at least among the sports that I have played, in that a strategically sound player can beat a much fitter opponent (I have been beaten by out-of-shape, flabby players on more than one occasion despite being quite fit).
- It is also a fantastic way to get in shape without even really trying - in essence, it gets you to do interval training while focusing your attention on a fun, strategic game. And it is relatively low impact for such a fast game, so the chance of injury is minimized.
- It is an indoor (thus year-round), international sport that is well-known enough that you can find clubs in most large and mid-sized urban areas (Istanbul and Durham included. The equipment requirements are small - a single racquet that starts around $20 and is easy to travel with.
- Finally, its truly an all-ages sport. Go to a squash club and you'll see players from 20s to 60s, often playing each other.
posted by googly at 7:24 PM on December 23, 2010
I second squash. Some reasons:
- Since it is played on a small court, it privileges quick reflexes and strategic play over running - even more so than tennis, which still requires a fair amount of running. Although at higher levels, it requires a high level of endurance and overall fitness, but it is also almost unique, at least among the sports that I have played, in that a strategically sound player can beat a much fitter opponent (I have been beaten by out-of-shape, flabby players on more than one occasion despite being quite fit).
- It is also a fantastic way to get in shape without even really trying - in essence, it gets you to do interval training while focusing your attention on a fun, strategic game. And it is relatively low impact for such a fast game, so the chance of injury is minimized.
- It is an indoor (thus year-round), international sport that is well-known enough that you can find clubs in most large and mid-sized urban areas (Istanbul and Durham included. The equipment requirements are small - a single racquet that starts around $20 and is easy to travel with.
- Finally, its truly an all-ages sport. Go to a squash club and you'll see players from 20s to 60s, often playing each other.
posted by googly at 7:24 PM on December 23, 2010
If you get into rock climbing, you can buy practice holds to bolt to a very sturdy indoor surface (availability of that sort of thing may be a problem depending on your situation). They are small enough to travel with. This would let you stay in shape when you could not visit a climbing gym or be out on the rock.
posted by yohko at 9:17 PM on December 23, 2010
posted by yohko at 9:17 PM on December 23, 2010
Triathlon. There are plenty of "age groupers" - folks like me that are never going to win but just hope to do well in their age group. By nature of the events you're always cross training. You can pick short event (sprints), medium events (Olympic distance) or long event (Ironman).
When you travel you can train with as little equipment as a pair of running shoes or a swimsuit.
Plus, if you get lucky there will be a local training group. These people are nearly always very fun.
posted by 26.2 at 12:37 AM on December 24, 2010
When you travel you can train with as little equipment as a pair of running shoes or a swimsuit.
Plus, if you get lucky there will be a local training group. These people are nearly always very fun.
posted by 26.2 at 12:37 AM on December 24, 2010
Roller derby! Often people think it's about brute force and to a certain extent it is, but there's a ton of strategy. Actually, I think that's the part that takes the most time to learn. I could go on and on about roller derby strategies, but I won't since it won't make sense to most people.
One exciting thing is it's such a new sport that people are constantly figuring out new strategies and ways to exploit the rules. Game play has changed a lot in the two and a half years I've been involved. If you don't skate, just start going to your local rink.
Also, badminton is awesome.
posted by bubonicpeg at 4:50 AM on December 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
One exciting thing is it's such a new sport that people are constantly figuring out new strategies and ways to exploit the rules. Game play has changed a lot in the two and a half years I've been involved. If you don't skate, just start going to your local rink.
Also, badminton is awesome.
posted by bubonicpeg at 4:50 AM on December 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
Mixed martial arts training at your uni is the closest thing to judo and BJJ. In addition to grappling, you'll likely learn some kind of boxing or kickboxing and maybe some wrestling, which is not unlike many aspects of judo. MMA training is far less standardized than judo or BJJ, which is pretty much the same the world over, but given than university clubs are often cheap or free, it's worth giving it a spin.
posted by ignignokt at 8:08 AM on December 24, 2010
posted by ignignokt at 8:08 AM on December 24, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by ansate at 2:16 PM on December 23, 2010