Should we pay for a month of daycare when it sucked?
December 21, 2010 8:26 AM Subscribe
Childcare payment. What's the right and easiest thing to do?
We moved. We secured a spot in a daycare center. We had to pay for 2 months that we didn't use to hold the spot. That was annoying but we did it because we didn't know what else to do. It was the only place with an opening that we didn't think was awful.
We arrived in new city and daycare didn't work out. We tried to send our child for 2 weeks. Mom was with him at school for 3 full days with him. After that, Mom spent 3 mornings, but was called in to pick him up an hour or 2 later because he'd cry the entire time. After 2 weeks of this, we decided to call it quits and hire a nanny. [We don't need advice on this. This is better for a variety of reasons.] Child spent approximately 5-7 hours at the center not with a parent.
The care at the center was not good enough, by our standards. Examples: (1) They did not change his diaper more often than every 4-5 hours (standard is 2, as I understand it (we know because we do cloth diapers so they got sent home)) and while they asked him if he had a poopy, he lied and said no so he sat in poopy diapers for at least a few hours. (2) The food served wasn't as described on the menu and was poor quality. (3) The workers weren't really engaging with the children and spent a lot of time talking amongst themselves.
So we owe them for a month of childcare (~$1500). One parent says "The care sucked and he was only really in their care for a few hours. Eff them. We're not going to pay it." The other parent says "We're contractually obligated to pay them. The staff was there even if he wasn't. It is the same as if he was sick. Plus I don't want the drama or the headache when we're already dealing with a lot of headaches. And how do we "prove" that the care sucked? They can make up whatever records they want to "prove" that he was cared for."
Who is right or what would you do?
Relevant facts:
- child is just 2-years-old
- has been in daycare since 4 months old
- again, we don't need any commentary on how we could have worked with him more to integrate him into the daycare or whatever
We moved. We secured a spot in a daycare center. We had to pay for 2 months that we didn't use to hold the spot. That was annoying but we did it because we didn't know what else to do. It was the only place with an opening that we didn't think was awful.
We arrived in new city and daycare didn't work out. We tried to send our child for 2 weeks. Mom was with him at school for 3 full days with him. After that, Mom spent 3 mornings, but was called in to pick him up an hour or 2 later because he'd cry the entire time. After 2 weeks of this, we decided to call it quits and hire a nanny. [We don't need advice on this. This is better for a variety of reasons.] Child spent approximately 5-7 hours at the center not with a parent.
The care at the center was not good enough, by our standards. Examples: (1) They did not change his diaper more often than every 4-5 hours (standard is 2, as I understand it (we know because we do cloth diapers so they got sent home)) and while they asked him if he had a poopy, he lied and said no so he sat in poopy diapers for at least a few hours. (2) The food served wasn't as described on the menu and was poor quality. (3) The workers weren't really engaging with the children and spent a lot of time talking amongst themselves.
So we owe them for a month of childcare (~$1500). One parent says "The care sucked and he was only really in their care for a few hours. Eff them. We're not going to pay it." The other parent says "We're contractually obligated to pay them. The staff was there even if he wasn't. It is the same as if he was sick. Plus I don't want the drama or the headache when we're already dealing with a lot of headaches. And how do we "prove" that the care sucked? They can make up whatever records they want to "prove" that he was cared for."
Who is right or what would you do?
Relevant facts:
- child is just 2-years-old
- has been in daycare since 4 months old
- again, we don't need any commentary on how we could have worked with him more to integrate him into the daycare or whatever
Also, if you're contracted to pay this might they take you to collections? That's not an insubstantial amount of money.
posted by ghharr at 8:30 AM on December 21, 2010
posted by ghharr at 8:30 AM on December 21, 2010
Response by poster: I should also add that this is a big corporate national daycare chain, so they likely have a legal/billing department to deal with this.
posted by k8t at 8:40 AM on December 21, 2010
posted by k8t at 8:40 AM on December 21, 2010
We're contractually obligated to pay them.
This is correct. Unless the care provided was in vast breach of the contract you signed, you owe payment.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:42 AM on December 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
This is correct. Unless the care provided was in vast breach of the contract you signed, you owe payment.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:42 AM on December 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
When you go to a restaurant and the food sucks you still pay. Chalk it up to a lesson learned (and tell other people so they can avoid it).
posted by 2bucksplus at 8:43 AM on December 21, 2010
posted by 2bucksplus at 8:43 AM on December 21, 2010
Response by poster: Okay. I can't believe that I wasted an AskMe question just to prove that I was right. Thanks all.
posted by k8t at 8:46 AM on December 21, 2010
posted by k8t at 8:46 AM on December 21, 2010
You are probably going to have to pay up, but if you think this place did not deliver what they claimed/advertised, it would be worth making a formal complaint to the chain's customer services/the area manager/the daycare manager/the chain's CEO (copy them all in to the same paper letter). That might net you at least a partial refund.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 8:48 AM on December 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by EndsOfInvention at 8:48 AM on December 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
When you go to a restaurant and the food sucks you still pay.
But if the food really sucks, you talk to a manager and sometimes, they comp your meal. It wouldn't hurt to negotiate the amount owed with the director of the child care center.
posted by litnerd at 8:48 AM on December 21, 2010 [4 favorites]
But if the food really sucks, you talk to a manager and sometimes, they comp your meal. It wouldn't hurt to negotiate the amount owed with the director of the child care center.
posted by litnerd at 8:48 AM on December 21, 2010 [4 favorites]
I'm sure they would say the care would have been better if there wasn't a parent in tow! It's hard to step in and care for someone else's child when the parent is RIGHT THERE. Anyway, that's irrelevant: you owe the money, you need to pay.
posted by Eicats at 8:54 AM on December 21, 2010
posted by Eicats at 8:54 AM on December 21, 2010
Response by poster: UPDATE:
Partner says that now the daycare is asking us to pay for next month's care that we won't use at all.
YES, the contract says that we're supposed to give 30 days notice.
So, AskMe, should we also pay for next month's care?
posted by k8t at 8:55 AM on December 21, 2010
Partner says that now the daycare is asking us to pay for next month's care that we won't use at all.
YES, the contract says that we're supposed to give 30 days notice.
So, AskMe, should we also pay for next month's care?
posted by k8t at 8:55 AM on December 21, 2010
Response by poster: @Eicats, it is standard practice at this age to have the parent stay with a child for a few days and then stop coming. He screamed in the car ride "NO SCHOOL" and once he got there all he did was scream and cry to the point that the caretakers called me to get him. This happened for a week and a 1/2.
posted by k8t at 8:58 AM on December 21, 2010
posted by k8t at 8:58 AM on December 21, 2010
Well, you are contractually obligated to pay, BUT complain and try to negotiate a lower amount/total elimination of the final amount. Be polite but stress that they did not deliver the required standard of service that they (presumably) advertised/claimed that they would.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 8:59 AM on December 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by EndsOfInvention at 8:59 AM on December 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
Best answer: By the way, at this point I would pay for the first month of care in full but complain the hell out of having to pay the second (30 days notice) month, pointing out that you are leaving due to the low standard of care, not because you're moving house or whatever. Keep escalating the issue if at all possible. If the daycare manager won't budge, track down the area manager, etc.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 9:02 AM on December 21, 2010 [8 favorites]
posted by EndsOfInvention at 9:02 AM on December 21, 2010 [8 favorites]
My experience is that you pay, regardless of whether you feel you should or not. You pay because they are a corporation and they have the means to make this difficult for you all the way to the point of turning it over to a collections agency and then you getting a ding on your credit rating for an uncollected debt.
I agree with EndsOfInvention to complain and/or escalate the issue, but in the end, the emotional toll this could have on you may not be worth it.
posted by indigo4963 at 9:19 AM on December 21, 2010
I agree with EndsOfInvention to complain and/or escalate the issue, but in the end, the emotional toll this could have on you may not be worth it.
posted by indigo4963 at 9:19 AM on December 21, 2010
And it does indeed seem like poor care, from what you describe. They sound lazy. They couldn't figure out that he lied about the poopy? They don't have noses? They tell mom to come running instead of dealing with the issues themselves? No thanks.
The restaurant analogy is a good one. Yeah, sometimes if the food is bad we might grudgingly pay, but if they tell us on the way out that oh, by the way, there's a built in 20% gratuity, I'd demand to speak to a manager.
posted by Melismata at 9:20 AM on December 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
The restaurant analogy is a good one. Yeah, sometimes if the food is bad we might grudgingly pay, but if they tell us on the way out that oh, by the way, there's a built in 20% gratuity, I'd demand to speak to a manager.
posted by Melismata at 9:20 AM on December 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
Best answer: If you decide to speak with them directly, try something like "I'd like to come to an agreement to pay my bill, and I'd like to be able to speak well of you to other parents....I have cash for the first 30 days and I'd like you to waive the remaining 30 days."
No need to bring up substandard care--they won't agree with you and waiving the second 30 days would be an admission of some sort (psychologically) that the are in the wrong.
If they won't waive the second 30 days, don't give them the cash. Tell them you'll send them a series of checks, as you're able.
If they do waive the second 30 days, get documentation that you've "paid in full" and thank them.
posted by vitabellosi at 9:26 AM on December 21, 2010
No need to bring up substandard care--they won't agree with you and waiving the second 30 days would be an admission of some sort (psychologically) that the are in the wrong.
If they won't waive the second 30 days, don't give them the cash. Tell them you'll send them a series of checks, as you're able.
If they do waive the second 30 days, get documentation that you've "paid in full" and thank them.
posted by vitabellosi at 9:26 AM on December 21, 2010
Wow, they called you to come get him because he was crying? They couldn't deal with it, chalk it up to his transitioning, hold him, distract him? Seriously? If I was a parent in your area, I would love for you to tell me this before I put my child there. Even though you'll end up paying for care you didn't use, please tell the headquarters about your experience. They need to know. If this was a single, private center, there would be little hope of them changing. But a national chain? Your money won't be totally wasted if you can help change this situation. Consider it a charitable donation to future daycare-utilizing parents and kids in your area.
posted by Knowyournuts at 10:30 AM on December 21, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by Knowyournuts at 10:30 AM on December 21, 2010 [3 favorites]
We had to pay for 2 months that we didn't use to hold the spot.
Check your contract. At least where my son is, that two weeks "deposit" can be applied to the notice period when he leaves care.
Honestly? I would stop talking to the local folks and go directly to the national management. with lawyer in tow. That's a huge amount of money for care that is substandard.
Also, I encourage you to report them to your state's childcare licensing agency.
posted by anastasiav at 12:14 PM on December 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
Check your contract. At least where my son is, that two weeks "deposit" can be applied to the notice period when he leaves care.
Honestly? I would stop talking to the local folks and go directly to the national management. with lawyer in tow. That's a huge amount of money for care that is substandard.
Also, I encourage you to report them to your state's childcare licensing agency.
posted by anastasiav at 12:14 PM on December 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: I am going to post something anonymously to the city's daycare forum after the dust clears. Our neighborhood parenting email group will hear when people next ask about it. (Although it gets heated.)
Honestly, in this big city, I've been unimpressed with most centers. This place was better than a dozen other we toured.
posted by k8t at 12:16 PM on December 21, 2010
Honestly, in this big city, I've been unimpressed with most centers. This place was better than a dozen other we toured.
posted by k8t at 12:16 PM on December 21, 2010
National chain? Go higher up the food chain. Be willing to document that nappy changes did not happen and that they were unwilling to deal with a crying two year old. Be willing to share your experiences with your childcare group, yelp, etc.
Offer to settle for half.
posted by 26.2 at 2:21 PM on December 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
Offer to settle for half.
posted by 26.2 at 2:21 PM on December 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
Well, you've got two forms of leverage here: Being willing to fight, and being willing to talk about fighting. I mean, you're the queen of social media, c'mon!
So, expect to pay something, but read your contract and insist on a face-to-face meeting with someone who has the authority to negotiate. If they get fussy, point out that the only victory that they'll get will be pyrrhic, that people from DC to Azerbaijan will know what an appalling job they did, and that really, they can lose as much in legal fees as they'd ever get out of you and it'll take years if you really want to fight it tooth and nail.
But you don't, because you're reasonable. So, the reasonable answer is to find a compromise in the middle that everyone negotiates to.
There's one more thing worth adding here, and I understand this because I very much have a different willingness to scrap than my partner: This should be primarily the responsibility of the partner that doesn't want to pay. That way, you still shouldn't have to deal with the drama or the headaches, and it's a lot harder for your partner to take a totally hard-line stance because, frankly, he'll get sick of the drama too. But I totally understand thinking that this isn't fair and feeling pretty antipathetic toward the day care folks, and I think that when something's not fair, there's no shame in being willing to negotiate something that is.
Contracts are contracts, but wouldn't they be so much more likely to get a, "Decent people but it didn't work for us," mention if they're willing to be flexible on the dissolution of the relationship?
posted by klangklangston at 5:07 PM on December 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
So, expect to pay something, but read your contract and insist on a face-to-face meeting with someone who has the authority to negotiate. If they get fussy, point out that the only victory that they'll get will be pyrrhic, that people from DC to Azerbaijan will know what an appalling job they did, and that really, they can lose as much in legal fees as they'd ever get out of you and it'll take years if you really want to fight it tooth and nail.
But you don't, because you're reasonable. So, the reasonable answer is to find a compromise in the middle that everyone negotiates to.
There's one more thing worth adding here, and I understand this because I very much have a different willingness to scrap than my partner: This should be primarily the responsibility of the partner that doesn't want to pay. That way, you still shouldn't have to deal with the drama or the headaches, and it's a lot harder for your partner to take a totally hard-line stance because, frankly, he'll get sick of the drama too. But I totally understand thinking that this isn't fair and feeling pretty antipathetic toward the day care folks, and I think that when something's not fair, there's no shame in being willing to negotiate something that is.
Contracts are contracts, but wouldn't they be so much more likely to get a, "Decent people but it didn't work for us," mention if they're willing to be flexible on the dissolution of the relationship?
posted by klangklangston at 5:07 PM on December 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: @kk - you make an excellent point. I should let the one that wants to fight fight. Then I don't have an additional pain in my ass.
posted by k8t at 5:25 PM on December 21, 2010
posted by k8t at 5:25 PM on December 21, 2010
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