Can this [potential] academic relationship be saved?
November 30, 2010 1:26 PM Subscribe
I am trying to plan a thesis project with the external adviser of my dreams, and it's not going well.
I'm a master's student in an interdisciplinary, international program in Sweden, getting started on my thesis project. What I want to study is outside the expertise of the advisers in my own faculty (biological scientists), so I looked for a long time for someone whose work really inspired me, found him (a social scientist, call him Dr. The Man) and contacted him. He agreed to collaborate with me, and even invited me to his institution in Germany to do the work. OMGhowexciting! I'm not really in the habit of chasing strangers to other countries, but for the first time in my academic career, I could see in this person's work the direction I wanted my own work to go, and I was (admittedly) desperately happy to work with him. For several months we tried to find funding to bring me there, but it didn't pan out. He was very gracious and also put me in touch with a few of his colleagues in Germany, and we tossed around several alternative thesis topics but still could not get funding. (I would have even been content working on a project with this faculty, not with Dr. The Man specifically.)
So after all that, I wrote to Dr. The Man and suggested that I just stay in Sweden (where I have residency and employment) and work with him from afar. "Sure," he said again. "What topic?" Now, I could have spent more weeks crafting exactly what I wanted, but I have no private funding to do any lab or fieldwork anyway and was running out of time to finish my degree. So I resurrected an idea that he himself had suggested several months prior as something he was interested in, almost verbatim. To be honest, this topic is not near and dear to my heart, but I found it interesting enough, and although the biological component of it is a bit over my head (I'm an anthropologist), I have taken some relevant coursework. Most importantly, and perhaps this is where it all went wrong, I saw it as a way to build a professional connection with him and his university (I speak German and have thought of emigrating there and pursuing a PhD).
He replies, "Ok sounds good, but remember I am not really a biological scientist".
I sort of ignored this last bit, since it was originally his idea, and since, even though it involves a literature review of biological data, it is still quite interdisciplinary. I work on a proposal and send it to him and don't get a reply. Weeks pass. I do a lot more work on it and send it again. I explain that I have also made connections with local researchers who can review the accuracy of the biological components.
Now, for the punchline, today he has replied with, "I'm sorry but I can't be your adviser on that, it's not my area. I'm a social scientist. Why don't you talk to Y and Z (biological scientists)?"
So not only am I sitting here holding a research proposal for something I don't passionately want to pursue (nor am really qualified to), but I seem to have lost the link to the kind of research I actually do want to pursue. I know he is quite busy and I have asked directly whether he has the time to work with me; he is a straightforward communicator and I believe he would simply say so if he couldn't. I think I have just created a big misunderstanding.
I am aware that researchers are just people, and that there are lots of The Mans in the world a person can study with. And that it's just a master's thesis, not my life's opus, and it will pass. Etc. But, here are my questions:
* Is it possible to explain to Dr. The Man that I'm not actually that keen on a proposal I've been working on for months, without the obvious implication that I'm a dingbat or a stalker, or both?
* Should I just call it a day and move on to something and someone else?
* Can I at least salvage a chance to work with the other social scientists at this school? There is another faculty member who has said he would like to work with me too, but I'm worried that I've made a funny impression now and it will at some point become awkward.
I'm a master's student in an interdisciplinary, international program in Sweden, getting started on my thesis project. What I want to study is outside the expertise of the advisers in my own faculty (biological scientists), so I looked for a long time for someone whose work really inspired me, found him (a social scientist, call him Dr. The Man) and contacted him. He agreed to collaborate with me, and even invited me to his institution in Germany to do the work. OMGhowexciting! I'm not really in the habit of chasing strangers to other countries, but for the first time in my academic career, I could see in this person's work the direction I wanted my own work to go, and I was (admittedly) desperately happy to work with him. For several months we tried to find funding to bring me there, but it didn't pan out. He was very gracious and also put me in touch with a few of his colleagues in Germany, and we tossed around several alternative thesis topics but still could not get funding. (I would have even been content working on a project with this faculty, not with Dr. The Man specifically.)
So after all that, I wrote to Dr. The Man and suggested that I just stay in Sweden (where I have residency and employment) and work with him from afar. "Sure," he said again. "What topic?" Now, I could have spent more weeks crafting exactly what I wanted, but I have no private funding to do any lab or fieldwork anyway and was running out of time to finish my degree. So I resurrected an idea that he himself had suggested several months prior as something he was interested in, almost verbatim. To be honest, this topic is not near and dear to my heart, but I found it interesting enough, and although the biological component of it is a bit over my head (I'm an anthropologist), I have taken some relevant coursework. Most importantly, and perhaps this is where it all went wrong, I saw it as a way to build a professional connection with him and his university (I speak German and have thought of emigrating there and pursuing a PhD).
He replies, "Ok sounds good, but remember I am not really a biological scientist".
I sort of ignored this last bit, since it was originally his idea, and since, even though it involves a literature review of biological data, it is still quite interdisciplinary. I work on a proposal and send it to him and don't get a reply. Weeks pass. I do a lot more work on it and send it again. I explain that I have also made connections with local researchers who can review the accuracy of the biological components.
Now, for the punchline, today he has replied with, "I'm sorry but I can't be your adviser on that, it's not my area. I'm a social scientist. Why don't you talk to Y and Z (biological scientists)?"
So not only am I sitting here holding a research proposal for something I don't passionately want to pursue (nor am really qualified to), but I seem to have lost the link to the kind of research I actually do want to pursue. I know he is quite busy and I have asked directly whether he has the time to work with me; he is a straightforward communicator and I believe he would simply say so if he couldn't. I think I have just created a big misunderstanding.
I am aware that researchers are just people, and that there are lots of The Mans in the world a person can study with. And that it's just a master's thesis, not my life's opus, and it will pass. Etc. But, here are my questions:
* Is it possible to explain to Dr. The Man that I'm not actually that keen on a proposal I've been working on for months, without the obvious implication that I'm a dingbat or a stalker, or both?
* Should I just call it a day and move on to something and someone else?
* Can I at least salvage a chance to work with the other social scientists at this school? There is another faculty member who has said he would like to work with me too, but I'm worried that I've made a funny impression now and it will at some point become awkward.
Re: your third question. I would say yes, he did suggest you seek other advisors after all. Most profs don't take these things personally, in my experience.
posted by torisaur at 1:34 PM on November 30, 2010
posted by torisaur at 1:34 PM on November 30, 2010
One more thing about the Man-- thank him for his time and let it lie. If he wanted to work with you, he'd have replied more quickly. You gain nothing by explaining yourself in detail.
He might have declined for any number of reasons that might not have anything to do with your topic. Maybe another student came along he wanted to work with. Maybe he got a grant to do something else for a semester. Maybe he got married and wants more time to himself. Who knows? Any attempt to explain yourself would likely backfire.
I don't know whether you should pursue other researchers at his institution. My gut says do whatever is fastest to finish your degree closest to your home institution.
posted by vincele at 1:38 PM on November 30, 2010
He might have declined for any number of reasons that might not have anything to do with your topic. Maybe another student came along he wanted to work with. Maybe he got a grant to do something else for a semester. Maybe he got married and wants more time to himself. Who knows? Any attempt to explain yourself would likely backfire.
I don't know whether you should pursue other researchers at his institution. My gut says do whatever is fastest to finish your degree closest to your home institution.
posted by vincele at 1:38 PM on November 30, 2010
It sounds like you'll have to put together another proposal anyway (since regardless of working with him, it sounds like you're not really suited to do the first project). Why not tailor it to his other interests and/or those of his colleagues?
I would then submit it to him with a very polite note about how you're also considering this new project and would he or one of his colleagues be willing to work with you on it?
My guess is that he threw out the first idea because perhaps he'd read an interesting article about it. After reading your proposal (which, if it were close to word for word of his original concept, might have raised red flags about your commitment to it), he decided he didn't have the time necessary to give you the direction you would need and thus, decided to refer you to someone else.
I'd take the fact that he isn't just telling you to find someone in Sweden as a good sign. Send him another proposal, one that's carefully thought out and that you're clearly interested in. If you're polite and profession and have clearly spent some time working on this new proposal, I would say your chances are decent that he'll either take you on or refer you.
posted by brambory at 1:44 PM on November 30, 2010
I would then submit it to him with a very polite note about how you're also considering this new project and would he or one of his colleagues be willing to work with you on it?
My guess is that he threw out the first idea because perhaps he'd read an interesting article about it. After reading your proposal (which, if it were close to word for word of his original concept, might have raised red flags about your commitment to it), he decided he didn't have the time necessary to give you the direction you would need and thus, decided to refer you to someone else.
I'd take the fact that he isn't just telling you to find someone in Sweden as a good sign. Send him another proposal, one that's carefully thought out and that you're clearly interested in. If you're polite and profession and have clearly spent some time working on this new proposal, I would say your chances are decent that he'll either take you on or refer you.
posted by brambory at 1:44 PM on November 30, 2010
It is a dark secret of academic advising that the student is the engine of the whole project. (Suitably qualified: In many cases, in my experience in the humanities in the US, etc.) Advisors often do not do a lot to shape things. An advisor-advisee relationship is not really a collaboration, it's the advisee doing the work and the advisor contributing in smaller ways. This is even more true of an advisor who is not at your institution, and someone who is not strictly in your field. This person probably is expecting you to direct the selection of a project yourself, and then he's expecting to contribute a few comments here and there and write you a nice letter of recommendation; he's expecting to get heavily involved only if your work turns out to be really useful for his own work.
It sounds to me like you want to do an interdisciplinary project but you don't have the background in the second discipline and you don't actually have a clear idea of a specific project you want to do. Is that right?
If you DO have a clear idea of a project you want to do, write it up and run it by him. Be polite, be ready to accept the signs that he is not interested, be ready to back away with a gracious "thank you so much for all your help".
If you DON'T have a clear idea of a project you want to do, work with someone at your home institution to develop a project that is less interdisciplinary and is completable with resources at your home institution. This will help you get it done, and nail down your credential in one discipline, and then you can seek out collaborators from the other discipline for your next project. (You'll be the expert in anthro, they'll be the expert in bio.) It sounds like a collaborator might be what you need anyway.
posted by LobsterMitten at 2:31 PM on November 30, 2010 [1 favorite]
It sounds to me like you want to do an interdisciplinary project but you don't have the background in the second discipline and you don't actually have a clear idea of a specific project you want to do. Is that right?
If you DO have a clear idea of a project you want to do, write it up and run it by him. Be polite, be ready to accept the signs that he is not interested, be ready to back away with a gracious "thank you so much for all your help".
If you DON'T have a clear idea of a project you want to do, work with someone at your home institution to develop a project that is less interdisciplinary and is completable with resources at your home institution. This will help you get it done, and nail down your credential in one discipline, and then you can seek out collaborators from the other discipline for your next project. (You'll be the expert in anthro, they'll be the expert in bio.) It sounds like a collaborator might be what you need anyway.
posted by LobsterMitten at 2:31 PM on November 30, 2010 [1 favorite]
The best thesis is the one that is finished. Your thesis is not your magnum opus. What everyone else is telling you is excellent advice. The degree is a gateway to a career. It is not the career itself.
posted by Crotalus at 2:51 PM on November 30, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Crotalus at 2:51 PM on November 30, 2010 [1 favorite]
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I'm in the US but I did an MA in another country. What you're trying to pull off sounds far too complicated for what you'll get out of the degree/project at the end of the day. Work with the people you have access to and have already built relationships with or can do so easily and quickly so you can move forward with your career.
posted by vincele at 1:32 PM on November 30, 2010