A Christmas Technology Miracle?
November 25, 2010 2:43 PM Subscribe
I am looking to set up my somewhat technically-challenged father with an mp3 player and the accompanying software for Christmas.
I would like him to be able to easily subscribe to podcasts and buy music online, but I am on a budget. Obviously ipod + itunes would do the trick, but I'm looking to do this on a budget. My own solution is a cobbled-together collection of shell scripts and a sansa clip running rockbox, but that is clearly not optimal in his situation. I am quite willing to put in some time installing third party software, hacking at some glue scripts, or whatever, but when it's done it needs to be dead easy to use. He is running Windows 7 and does not want a smartphone.
What is a cheapeasy easy-to-use way to make this all happen?
Bonus Round: Downloading his music in a relatively open/vanilla format (mp3, ogg, FLAC), so I can mooch select tracks off of his collection if I care to.
I would like him to be able to easily subscribe to podcasts and buy music online, but I am on a budget. Obviously ipod + itunes would do the trick, but I'm looking to do this on a budget. My own solution is a cobbled-together collection of shell scripts and a sansa clip running rockbox, but that is clearly not optimal in his situation. I am quite willing to put in some time installing third party software, hacking at some glue scripts, or whatever, but when it's done it needs to be dead easy to use. He is running Windows 7 and does not want a smartphone.
What is a cheap
Bonus Round: Downloading his music in a relatively open/vanilla format (mp3, ogg, FLAC), so I can mooch select tracks off of his collection if I care to.
What's your budget? The usual thing for us apple fans do is recommend a refurbished unit from the online store. The previous nano is going for less than $120. After that, everything is set to go and you won't be spending any time hacking scripts. I got one for my mum and loaded it with her favourite "greatest hits" and she's been happy. If you get him the ipod, he'll at least be able to google help if he run into problems.
posted by bonobothegreat at 2:58 PM on November 25, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by bonobothegreat at 2:58 PM on November 25, 2010 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thanks guys, but I'm looking for something a bit less pricey, as close to $50 dollars as possible. We keep things modest with regards to Christmas gifts around here.
posted by LiteOpera at 3:08 PM on November 25, 2010
posted by LiteOpera at 3:08 PM on November 25, 2010
Actually, I'd suggest to avoid ipod. Ipod enthusiests may take umbrage at that, but ipod fans use and understand the ipod and tend to avoid or overlook the problems that non-techy people hit. Non-techy people that I know struggle to use them, because of all the complications with the DRM and lock-in design (eg. it's not intuitive that the device only works with one computer, or the music files can't be moved onto it like regular files, you lose your music unpredictably if you do things that make sense to people who aren't used to thinking in terms of DRM, ).
My observation of ipods in the hands of regular people is that it is a feat for them to jump through the hoops to get music on the device, and then they forget the steps involved, and then with the novelty worn off, they lack the motivation to relearn those steps, and so they don't change the music, and then the usefulness of the device fades.
I'd suggest something drag-and-drop with no DRM. I've seen people find the sansa players easier to use than the ipods. Amazon mp3 might not be as polished a path as itunes store, but the music he buys won't do mysterious things, or disappear from his player for reasons unknown to him. You should be able to get a cheap sansa off ebay or woot.
posted by -harlequin- at 3:20 PM on November 25, 2010 [1 favorite]
My observation of ipods in the hands of regular people is that it is a feat for them to jump through the hoops to get music on the device, and then they forget the steps involved, and then with the novelty worn off, they lack the motivation to relearn those steps, and so they don't change the music, and then the usefulness of the device fades.
I'd suggest something drag-and-drop with no DRM. I've seen people find the sansa players easier to use than the ipods. Amazon mp3 might not be as polished a path as itunes store, but the music he buys won't do mysterious things, or disappear from his player for reasons unknown to him. You should be able to get a cheap sansa off ebay or woot.
posted by -harlequin- at 3:20 PM on November 25, 2010 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thanks Harley. That is about what my intuition on the situation. But what would you recommend as a podcatcher or playlist manager for such a device? Despite years of computer use, he doesn't quite grok hierarchical filesystems, and almost certainly will not be able to keep his music organized in a consistent artist/album/song.mp3 hierarchy. Is there an iTunes-lite type piece of software to solve this problem?
Also, does the stock sansa firmware support .m3u playlists or does it require some kind of nonsense proprietary software like my old Walkman?
posted by LiteOpera at 4:01 PM on November 25, 2010
Also, does the stock sansa firmware support .m3u playlists or does it require some kind of nonsense proprietary software like my old Walkman?
posted by LiteOpera at 4:01 PM on November 25, 2010
Disclosure: I once worked in an Apple Store about a decade ago (part-time, while a student).
I still think an iPod (say, the iPod shuffle - $50, maybe less tomorrow during Apple's holiday sale) and iTunes fit the criteria. It has fewer whiz-bang features, on the other hand, its really quite simple to operate.
I get what -harlequin- is saying about the iTunes syncing model not being all that intuitive. In my experience, that mostly plagues us multiple-computer users who are relatively savvy and want to treat our files of all sorts like files. LiteOpera's dad sort of sounds like (and I'm extrapolating, maybe projecting) sounds like my parents - having to know how feeds work, having to have more granular control over things does not help.
None of this is all that intuitive, particularly for new computer users, it's all learned behavior - so it might be different for different people, but in my experience iTunes is easily learned and bonobothegreat is right: It's definitely something there's widespread support for/information about.
DRM should not be an issue: the iTunes music store has been DRM-free for some time, and of course, typical podcasts are too.
I'm certain there are less expensive options, more option options, and arguably as easy or easier options (that's really a matter of perspective and already learned behaviors) -- but I can't think of an example where I get all those properties together: inexpensive, easy (+ support), more open than a low-end iPod. Nothing I'd leave to my parents to figure out on their own.
posted by mjb at 4:06 PM on November 25, 2010
I still think an iPod (say, the iPod shuffle - $50, maybe less tomorrow during Apple's holiday sale) and iTunes fit the criteria. It has fewer whiz-bang features, on the other hand, its really quite simple to operate.
I get what -harlequin- is saying about the iTunes syncing model not being all that intuitive. In my experience, that mostly plagues us multiple-computer users who are relatively savvy and want to treat our files of all sorts like files. LiteOpera's dad sort of sounds like (and I'm extrapolating, maybe projecting) sounds like my parents - having to know how feeds work, having to have more granular control over things does not help.
None of this is all that intuitive, particularly for new computer users, it's all learned behavior - so it might be different for different people, but in my experience iTunes is easily learned and bonobothegreat is right: It's definitely something there's widespread support for/information about.
DRM should not be an issue: the iTunes music store has been DRM-free for some time, and of course, typical podcasts are too.
I'm certain there are less expensive options, more option options, and arguably as easy or easier options (that's really a matter of perspective and already learned behaviors) -- but I can't think of an example where I get all those properties together: inexpensive, easy (+ support), more open than a low-end iPod. Nothing I'd leave to my parents to figure out on their own.
posted by mjb at 4:06 PM on November 25, 2010
I agree with others...I'm a tech guy myself, and it's hard to believe you're going to set yourself up for the training and support nightmare of a hacked together homebrew solution when a well-proven plug & play alternative exists.
A used ipod of any flavor, plus itunes, is simple, obvious, and well proven. There's a reason why everyone is giving iPads to their grandmothers!
Alternatively, the Sansa is cheap, and it'll operate just like a USB drive when plugged in. Why would you need any glue scripts/rockbox when your father could just save all his music to a folder, then copy in what he wants to listen to - including podcasts that he downloads each week/day?
posted by jpeacock at 4:21 PM on November 25, 2010
A used ipod of any flavor, plus itunes, is simple, obvious, and well proven. There's a reason why everyone is giving iPads to their grandmothers!
Alternatively, the Sansa is cheap, and it'll operate just like a USB drive when plugged in. Why would you need any glue scripts/rockbox when your father could just save all his music to a folder, then copy in what he wants to listen to - including podcasts that he downloads each week/day?
posted by jpeacock at 4:21 PM on November 25, 2010
A Sansa Clip+ with the standard firmware is a really good mp3 player that he can drag and drop his music files on to when set to MSC mode. It is much better than a Shuffle, or any iPod. It has a micro SD slot to increase its storage capacity, too. You can find them refurbished on woot for under $25.
posted by rfs at 4:24 PM on November 25, 2010
posted by rfs at 4:24 PM on November 25, 2010
How often do you see him? because it sounds to me like one of the sansas that use a micro SD card might be the ticket. Have two, one that you fill for him, and the other is in the player, and you swap them out every week or so. I'm really happy with my sansa clip, though it only holds two gigs. You can get other models (the fuse, and the view, I believe) that hold up to 16 gigs and have micro SD capability, and they're around your price range. He could keep his music on the built in storage, and the podcasts and so forth could go on the microSD, which would make it easy for you to mooch any songs he's got that you like.
I don't really do podcasts so I can't help with software recs to manage those, sorry.
posted by lemniskate at 4:26 PM on November 25, 2010
I don't really do podcasts so I can't help with software recs to manage those, sorry.
posted by lemniskate at 4:26 PM on November 25, 2010
Sansa Clip via Costco or Woot or wherever. Simple to operate. Has a display. Holds gigabytes of music. Cheap. Looks like a normal folder / drive to a Windows or Mac machine.
posted by zippy at 8:26 PM on November 25, 2010
posted by zippy at 8:26 PM on November 25, 2010
I also came in to speak up for Sansa--we recently bought a refurbished Fuze on eBay for $35, and it's been great. Super intuitive to use (it was actually a gift for my eight-year-old, but her five-year-old cousin and sixty-year-old tech failure of a grandmother have both used it without problem).
Also, Sansas do support .m3u playlists--more info here.
posted by MeghanC at 10:16 PM on November 25, 2010
Also, Sansas do support .m3u playlists--more info here.
posted by MeghanC at 10:16 PM on November 25, 2010
Best answer: Disclosure:
I am not a heavy user of my mp3 player (smallish Sansa).
But: When I used it more frequently, I was happy with winamp (free version) for managing the files, it can be set up to autoscan a directory and add the music to its library based on the ID3 tags. Simple and very searchable. Playlists are easy to make, save and transfer to the player.
But then again I've used winamp for years.
Juice for managing podcasts.
posted by Thug at 2:28 AM on November 26, 2010
I am not a heavy user of my mp3 player (smallish Sansa).
But: When I used it more frequently, I was happy with winamp (free version) for managing the files, it can be set up to autoscan a directory and add the music to its library based on the ID3 tags. Simple and very searchable. Playlists are easy to make, save and transfer to the player.
But then again I've used winamp for years.
Juice for managing podcasts.
posted by Thug at 2:28 AM on November 26, 2010
Response by poster: I had forgotten Winamp! I must have blocked it out along with the pile of despicable and evil windows software I used in that time of my life, but Winamp is great. Just to clarify: if he has a completely disorganized directory of music, winamp can manange moving it to his mp3 player based on whether or not he adds it to a playlist? Also, do you have a recommendation for a particular old version of winamp, or are the latest ones OK these days?
posted by LiteOpera at 8:28 AM on November 26, 2010
posted by LiteOpera at 8:28 AM on November 26, 2010
Best answer: I use the latest version as my secondary - um, no tertiary player... Squeezecenter and xbmc being the first two.
No issues with the latest version, indeed some versions ago they abandoned the multi-window approach and went for single-window normality. About time, too.
And yeah, if the files are tagged correctly, it doesn't matter how mixed up they are or where they are, Winamp's library will sort them by artist, album, year, whatever. And transfer the individual files or complete playlists to the player. By all means try it out, it's free!
posted by Thug at 2:59 PM on November 26, 2010
No issues with the latest version, indeed some versions ago they abandoned the multi-window approach and went for single-window normality. About time, too.
And yeah, if the files are tagged correctly, it doesn't matter how mixed up they are or where they are, Winamp's library will sort them by artist, album, year, whatever. And transfer the individual files or complete playlists to the player. By all means try it out, it's free!
posted by Thug at 2:59 PM on November 26, 2010
Just to your last question: I've loved Winamp since forever, and yes, the latest versions are better than the ones that came before IMO. I can't help you with you with your syncing and device questions, though.
posted by snarfois at 9:08 AM on November 29, 2010
posted by snarfois at 9:08 AM on November 29, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
Major music stores that sell MP3s:
posted by phoebus at 2:58 PM on November 25, 2010